Terrorists bomb Istanbul airport
No one has claimed responsibility yet, and varying numbers of people have been reported killed, but loss of life is large. The terrorists eluded security because they exploded their bombs at the airport entrance, apparently at the taxi stand. Three terrorists are dead.
I will be writing more about this later tonight as news develops, but for now consider this an open thread on the subject.
UPDATE 11:00 PM
From what I’m hearing on the news, the security at the Istanbul airport is unusually strict. But of course there’s always a line of demarcation where security begins, and you can never push it back far enough to make a facility completely secure. From what I’m hearing about the Istanbul airport, bags are screened on the street at the airport entrance, and the initial suicide bombing occurred slightly in front of that checkpoint, outside the airport but in a crowded area.
This apparently provided a screen for the second terrorist to enter the airport with a Kalishnikov, shooting people. But it seems that the main place where people were killed was probably the first site. There is video of the second terrorist running within the airport and people scattering, while the terrorist is pursued and fired on by police. He is hit, falls down, and is hit again. By this time the room is fairly empty of other people (at least, we don’t see many in the video) except for one man bending over him, who then runs away. The wounded terrorist then detonates his vest in a large explosion.
There are reports that the third terrorist never got into the airport at all, and was either killed by police or detonated his vest outside the airport as well.
That’s all preliminary information, and subject to much change. But it seems to me that the plan here was to kill a lot more people, and that security limited the death toll to a certain extent.
To paraphrase Everett Dirksen – “Fifty here, and fifty there, and pretty soon you’re talking real carnage.”
Here is a thought process to consider. What if GW had dropped a nuke on Tehran, or Baghdad, or Kabul, or better yet Mecca? Would the iron fist rulers of the Middle East take pause and think that just maybe they should stop this barbaric killing spree, stop attacking the West, and possibly think about reforming their religion of death?
In short, what would Truman have done?
Other Chuck.
The guys running this can work out of a cave, or some little camel crossing. Nuking a big city might not make much difference for them. Money, now….. That might be different. Riyadh or Teheran could get a different view of things.
Richard Aubrey:
We tried sanctions, democracy, bribes, and ground troops. Those were the rational responses. But we are not dealing with rational, civilized people. The mindset is 7th Century. Are we going to slowly watch Western Civilization dissolve into trembling fear and chaos? Is it worth saving?
If an enemy sees weakness he will continue unrelentingly. That is what the Mullahs and petty strongmen of the Middle East see. Their judgment is correct. We don’t have a Truman, or Grant, or Scipio. Would that we did.
Obama: “Thank goodness it was in Turkey. People won’t get t’eed off at our Muslim friends when it’s far away. Gotta remind Loretta to have the FBI on alert to go after any Islamophobes, though. Now, what time do I tee off tomorrow?”
People have been thinking about that for awhile, since you can detonate an aoe explosive that reaches past the security cordon, from outside of it.
Sort of like a truck/van bomb.
It’s not easy to come up with the supplies for it, so the terrorists are probably receiving more military funding and training. Such as from Libya/Iraq/Syria.
We don’t have a Truman, or Grant, or Scipio. Would that we did.
People who are so weak they need to be saved by some Great Man, are too weak to survive into the next era. They should be destroyed and replaced by a civilization with more vitality and more justification for using resources.
Are we going to slowly watch Western Civilization dissolve into trembling fear and chaos?
People against Bush II’s strategy, thought that the Shia and Sunni could be occupied by getting them to kill each other. Well they’re killing each other there, and how’s that working out for Americans.
I was at that airport this year. Doesn’t surprise me one bit. The Religion of Peace just celebrating the holy month of Ramadam.
Other Chuck:
Truman had an advantage. The enemy wore uniforms and didn’t fight like cowards.
We have tons of smart people in the military but they’ve been constrained by the rules of engagement and Obama.
It has to be an all out war on many fronts. Crush them so they know they are defeated. Bomb the ISIS oil wells to bits. I’ve never heard a single reason why this was don’t months ago. Giant mistake not to crush ISIS.
John Nagl is a Rhodes scholar from my high school and he literally wrote the book on COIN. It worked in Irsq. Then we gave it back.
We also absolutely have to do better on social media. I still love the premise from Chris Buckley’s book “Florence of
Arabia.” The CIA creates and broadcasts a sat TV show like Oprah and reforms Islam.
Cornhead Says:
June 29th, 2016 at 2:22 am
The Religion of Peace just celebrating the holy month of Ramadam.
You may need to re-read your historywell mate
Other Chuck.
I wasn’t suggesting doing nothing. I was pointing out that the enemy may not be inconvenienced by your suggested nuking. That’s not suggesting doing nothing. That’s suggesting your idea will do nothing. So we need something else.
It’s a multi-level issue.
Various suggestions have been making damn’ sure that the “accessory” concept be applied very aggressively in domestic terror cases. Friends, family, mosques, imams, congregations, associates…all investigated thoroughly.
End the culture of PC which, among other things, allowed the Rotherham horror to persist for ten years.
Bomb the hell out of any formation we can find. That includes permanent overflight of drones with weapons-free ROE for low-level decisions. Ruin or control oil production. A financial sanction doesn’t work unless every last financial supplier is bankrupt and, since nothing’s perfect, there will always be some left, no matter what we do. Frack, baby, frack.
Hold law enforcement accountable for missing various obvious howlers as with, say, the Tsarnaevs who were given to the FBI on a platter by Russian intel. Mateen who’d been a pain in various asses since the third grade and who was employed by a security firm which guards nuclear facilities.
Currently, missing an obvious terrorist who kills a couple of dozen Americans is not a career problem. But looking twice at a mosque will get you fired.
Must end.
Spy vs Spy: Russian intel beats up under cover U.S. agent in front of Moscow embassy…
all kinds of things going on, not just highly distracting terrorist attacks facilitated by the policies of elites sequestered away from the effects of their self serving choices…
Kalishnikov = AK series, usually AK47
[AKM, AK-56, AK-74 – are also available]
why did the news change the name of the rifle suddenly to the inventors name, not the actual rifle.
also, how do they know its a AK47, AK50, etc.
lots of rifles have a curved magazine (because bullets have larger bottoms than tops, so some magazines handle that by curving)
Kalashnikov Variation, a form of the Sicilian Defense in chess???
its less precise given it refers to the inventor, about a dozen other famous people, chess moves, a factory, and more…
security limited the death toll to a certain extent
no, modern security makes it worse by clustering the travelers, their families, etc.
the crowd outside the security areas are much larger than the few people who make it through to ride the planes…
it was a no brainer after 9/11 to see them create better opportunities…
in one case, the open court yard like madison square garden, forced everyone into a cue line that went back and forth…
if a person wearing a vest got on line, and waited till they were in the center, way before security would see them, they would literally have a concentrated group of people lined up as close as can be around them…
they couldnt do better!!!!
the pretend security moves are nothing in the face of actual acts that take advantage of them
if you travel, you will see huge groups outside the security area, because they made the security area and so people cant spread out any more… a flight with 400 people will have over a thousand people waiting to be checked in huge lines…
its idiocy if the motions were not more important than the actual outcomes.
In thinking about the consequences of the response to these horrific events (or lack thereof) I want to mention a book I just finished reading: “Submission” by Michel Houellebecq. Many liberal reviewers chose to view it differently than I do. By that I mean they don’t want to contemplate the premise for even a second. While it takes place in 2020 (much too early for what happens in the book to actually happen) I do believe it is almost plausible to a certain extent. The fact that it happens in France makes it even more believable. I could also see it occurring in Sweden. It is kind of what London is experimenting with now in a very watered down sort of way. I recommend it.
Terrible! The trend of hitting airports and other well-travels spots is upsetting. So, I guess: mission accomplished, ISIS.
Apparently this does not even rate a comment from Obama, simply as statement by Josh Earnest. Well, it’s not like he got a lot of campaign donations from traveling Turks.
In my opinion, The Other Chuck is on to something.
Actually, it’s something I’ve been saying since 9/12/2001. (The date is correct.)
Strangely enough, no one in the US social media seems to be crying “Gun control!” yet.
The worst thing about their prevaricating whenever something happens here is that, to a greater or lesser extent, they’re lying to themselves — and they know it. Everyone gets it about Islam by now.
URI Says at 4:50
In response to Cornhead’s comment:
“The Religion of Peace just celebrating the holy month of Ramadam.”
URI said:
“You may need to re-read your historywell mate.”
I’m not sure if URI is an apologist for Islam or is a lefty but it doesn’t matter. He (“he” because most Islamic apologists seem to be male for some reason) is setting up the usual false moral equivalence between Islam and Christianity. Even if Christians 500 years ago were overly aggressive that tu quoque argument is especially lame since Chrisitan behavior 500 years ago has nothing to do with modern Christianity or mordern Islam.
The behavior of modern Muslims especially the most devout Muslims is vile and uncivilized. Only a sociopath or an evil lefty could admire modern Islam.
Lizzy:
“…it’s not like he got a lot of campaign donations from traveling Turks.”
That we know of.
We do know he got lots of illegal campaign contributions from the Middle East, China and other verbotten sources in 2008 when he disabled the credit card security protocols. Despite even the NY Times criticizing him for that, he did it again in 2012. But since he won both times, the FEC (coincidentally) decided not to investigate it.
Dennis:
I’d say URI is both a leftist AND an apologist for Islam. The two tend to go together. Probably also anti-religion in general—except, of course, for Islam, which gets a pass because it is more common in third-world countries (oppressed by the West!!!).
Christian terrorists haven’t blown up too many airports lately.
Mr. Presidential:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eoc25yDymWQ/V3P9zjJyovI/AAAAAAAAYHc/H7_25oK8Dtc68RwnYJl5YgotK1h-b4QSACLcB/s1600/CmDPdJlWIAA5xpN.jpg
Artfldgr:
No, that does not appear to have been what occurred in this instance, as best I can tell from reports.
The attacks did not occur in areas clustered by security. The first (and supposedly most lethal) attack occurred at the cab drop-off stand. That’s not a security cluster; that’s a more natural cluster that occurs at an entrance to a building where cabs drop people off.
The second attack occurred with the terrorist running down the open area of the airport, with no particular security lines or clusters. It was just the fairly crowded airport, with people scattering and running away from him. The third terrorist apparently didn’t kill or injure many people and never got inside the airport; we don’t know as much about the circumstances of his death.
By “security” I obviously did NOT mean security lines or checks, because they were not involved here, as was clear from my description. The terrorists did not pass through any checkpoints, so we’re not talking about effective checkpoints. By the word “security” I specifically meant the police presence—that is, armed security with guns—which appears to have been pretty widespread at the Istanbul airport. Armed security officers were on the terrorists almost immediately. The first one detonated his vest outside because he was being shot at (my guess is that he might have wanted to detonate it even closer to the security line and kill even more people, but I’d need more information about the layout to understand whether that could be the case or not). The second terrorist was shooting people and running, but security shot him and that felled him, at which point he detonated the vest but there was almost no one around. The third terrorist was apparently shot (or shot at) by police and detonated his vest outside the airport, and my impression is that he didn’t kill anyone but himself.
So my point is that security—armed personnel—at the airport prevented terrorists #2 and #3 from being able to cause a much great loss of life.
As more facts emerge, my thoughts on that could change. But that’s my conclusion from reports I’ve seen so far.
Cornhead — I hate to disagree with you, but I think Nagl is wrong — I think he’s too much of a “heartsy-mindsy” softy.
You have to crush the enemy so thoroughly that their entire worldview is shattered — that their belief that their way of doing things is God-given, is completely and utterly vanquished. The Civil War would have gone on for years had not Sherman marched through Georgia. The German population did not get a taste of war because World War I was not fought in Germany, hence there was WWII. After Germany was levelled in WWII, they got it. The Japanese did not surrender until AFTER the Nagasaki bomb was dropped, when the Emperor realized that continued fighting would mean the end of Japanese civilization.
Alexander’s COIN strategy in Afghanistan was successful, not because of its threat to the fighting men, but to the women, children, and means of sustenance as well. He didn’t just say, “If you don’t join the wonderful Greco-Bactrian Empire, we’ll kill all the men.” He said, “If you don’t join the wonderful Greco-Bactrian Empire, we’ll kill all the men, rape all the women, sell them and the children into slavery, raze your village to the ground, plow under the fields, and sprinkle them with salt.” And he did just that a few times to show he was serious. The Greco-Bactrian Empire lasted 300 years. even without Alexander or his dynasty.
So, first you bomb Raqaa flat. Then you seize the oil fields under ISIS control. Any ones you can’t seize, you destroy. Then you destroy any convoys, oil trucks, military vehicles, and groups of more than three men. Of course, you leaflet the area extensively before you do it.
Then you do the same to Boko Haram, Al Qeada in the Maghreb, al Qeada in the Arabian Peninsula, Abu Sayef, etc., etc., etc.
You tell the Iranians, pull all your troops and “advisors” back from Iraq and Syria, permit unfettered American access to ALL your nuclear facilities, give us the four Americans you are holding back, and if we see one eentsy-weensty teeny-weeny bit of support for terrorism, including so much as a check to the family of a suicide bomber, we start bombing, we stop the money flow, we stop Boeing, we stop Officer Muldoon from going around trying to get people to do business with you. And if one of your ships comes within 1,000 meters of a US vessel, we sink it.
We tell the Saudis, the Kuwatis, the Emirates, Brunei, (nice and quiet-like, of course) every dollar sent by one of your people to support Islamists means a barrel of oil you don’t sell.
Will it be hard? Will it be long? Will it cost American lives? Will it cost lots of money? Yes.
We fought the Amerindians for 200 years. From El Cid to the Gates of Vienna was 150 years. We can do this. Our civilization can survive — but only if we have the will.
Ira, your thought on 9/12/2001 was mine on the same day. I don’t believe a protracted battle for civilization will result in victory. ISIS, Taliban, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. are tolerated and supported by Middle East Islamic regimes and their spiritual leaders. The only way to stop it once and for all is to make it so painful for them that they retreat. Give them no choice but eventual extinction. No peace conferences, no treaties, no negotiation. The change must come from within Islamic leadership or they will be destroyed.
Sadly, I don’t believe we have the will let alone the desire to do it.
TOC,
There is a simple cure: blockade ports and enforce no fly zones. It can be done. And they begin to starve within 6 months. What is lacking is leadership and the will of the populous.
The only way to stop it once and for all is to make it so painful for them that they retreat. Give them no choice but eventual extinction. No peace conferences, no treaties, no negotiation. The change must come from within Islamic leadership or they will be destroyed.
Sadly, I don’t believe we have the will let alone the desire to do it.
Looking for willpower amongst Dear Leaders when you lack it in yourself, is a kind of hypocrisy.
Giving people no way to retreat or survive, makes them fight with a stronger conviction than you could ever realize. It’s not something people lacking Willpower can handle.
Will it be hard? Will it be long? Will it cost American lives? Will it cost lots of money? Yes.
We fought the Amerindians for 200 years. From El Cid to the Gates of Vienna was 150 years. We can do this. Our civilization can survive – but only if we have the will.
Now that sounds like someone who has refined their willpower into specifics, rather than general appeals to some Dear Leader that will save them.
I don’t necessarily agree with all of the strategies or tactics R Saunders proposed, but most of them sound feasible, if the leadership and the sheepish weakling peasant voting masses, had the willpower for it. Which they don’t.