The “President Trump” crowd crows
Last night before I went to bed I did some surfing around the blogosphere and noticed the happy-dances of Trump supporters.
Sometimes the comment was just the triumphant shout of “TRUMP!!!!” Sometimes it was more formal: “President Trump!” Sometimes, of course, it was a longer message—variations on “let it burn” or about his inevitability, and fantasies of what he’d do as president and how awful all his opponents would feel. But the messages all seemed to assume that his nomination would result in victory over Hillary and his taking the office of president.
My own assumption is different. I think a Trump nomination would be pretty much the same as a Hillary victory, because the first would be very likely to lead to the second.
Now, of course I could be wrong. But that gives me scant comfort, because to me “President Trump” is only marginally better than “President Hillary Clinton,” and that’s Trump on a good day. Again, I find that I have to focus on things like “Well, his SCOTUS appointments would have to be better than hers, wouldn’t they?” And “Well, maybe he’d pick some good advisers; she almost certainly won’t.” Or “Maybe he’d be considered a ‘cowboy’ type by the rest of the world, so maybe they won’t test him too much because they’ll think you just never know what a guy like that might do.”
You just never know what a guy like that might do.
Neither of the two alternatives—President Trump or President Hillary—feels the least bit good to me. And yet this election cycle started out with more hope about the political prospects than I’ve had since—well, since I can remember. I thought there was a good chance that the GOP might keep Congress, and with someone like Walker or Cruz or even Fiorina as president we could reverse some of the ills of the last eight years and even earlier. There was an excellent chance of it.
Then the Trump phenomenon picked up steam and here we are.
Here we are.
I can only hope that I’m underestimating Trump—both his chances for winning it all and what kind of president he’d be. Because without my being wrong about both, the prospect of his being nominated is one I cannot stomach, and would be another example of the GOP voters snatching defeat from the jaws of victory—this time in one of the most (perhaps the most) important elections of our time.
So I have to root against my own powers of judgment and prognostication.
On October 2, 2012, about a month before the 2012 election, I made the following prediction. It gives me no pleasure to report that I was spot on with this one:
One thing I believe is that, if Romney loses this election, the right will start tearing itself apart in anger…I already see some evidence of it in articles and comments from the right that accuse Romney of not wanting to win, of not going on the attack enough…of not doing whatever it might be that the brilliant armchair strategists would be doing if they were running for president, an election they of course would win by dint of their brilliant strategy. If Romney loses, the RINO theme will rise again undiminished, and the hatred of the “Republican establishment.”
I’ll just leave it there.
I’m resigned now to President Hillary.
The MSM and Dems will roll out a massive media and social media attack on Trump. And the fools on Fox will act all surprised. Unprotected sex with women the moral equivalent of fighting in the jungles of Vietnam? And there’s more.
I blame Fox for much of Trump’s success. Fox loves him because he’s from NYC, he’s rich and has a TV show.
The Daily Mail, which puts our media to shame, reports that Trump is now consulting with Rudy, Bill Bennett, Stephen Moore and Art Laffer. Those are my kind of people even though Trump is not my cup of tea. If the “conservative” party is hitching its wagon to him, at least he has reputable sidekicks.
There is really no talking to the Trump admirers. I know one Trumpster who started out a rabid Cruz devotee. And yet, she has bought into all the trash talk about Cruz, saying he can’t be trusted and yet, she won’t listen to a word about how Trump is essentially a life long democrat. It is simply delusional. They actually believe he will deport 12 million people. Another thing I find of interest: how do these Evangelicals square Trump’s support for abortion? I think it means abortion is accepted. Period. They know it will never be undone and they are missing the implications for partial birth abortion. I think it also means they accept the reality of gay marriage and they are resigned to the probability that all of those social issues are settled and the ONE issue left to them is immigration. They aren’t seeing the bigger picture, all of the surprises to come, the restriction of speech, what happens to the 2nd amendment, and other horrors the left will cook up.
I will work for the Clinton campaign.
I fear that this is indeed the end of the Republican Party. As a conservative I can no longer tolerate the constant betrayals and demagogy from the so-called establishment class of the Republican Party. I detest Donald Trump and believe that Ted Cruz is the only true conservative in the field and believe that if Trump is the nominee (which looks inevitable now), that many conservatives will start looking to create their own party. Which of course, will work to benefit the Democrats and their progressive agenda. This is an absolute no-win situation for America.
s1c Says at 9:12 am
“I will work for the Clinton campaign.”
That is exactly why people on both sides of the Trump phenomena need to tone down their rhetoric. We don’t really know what kind of president Trump will be but we know who Clinton is.
Those who compare Trump to Hitler are off the wall. By the time Hitler took office he was a known racist and anti-Semite who had a track record of violence against opponents. Trump is probably not any more a megalomaniac than Clinton or Sanders, he just flaunts his riches it while they pretend they are part of the proletariat to hide their pride and greed. Trump’s supporters are largely blue collar workers who have been left behind while the elite of both parties work against their best interests. They are not revolutionaries, they just want their country back.
There are similarities between the Weimar Republic and Hollywood culture but that does not mean that the entire country is especially similar to pre-WWII Germany. Arguing that we can expect an outcome similar to Weimar is an argument from analogy which is always weak and bad analogy at that.
stu,
I read about that too. But the fact that they are talking to him doesn’t necesarily mean they support him. Perhaps they are trying to educate him a bit or keep a door open so they might have some influence if he gets the nomination.
BTW, I wonder who Hillary has compiling a book about all of Trump’s character failures. I’m pretty sure everything about the limo car park, the slummy Scottish farmers, the Trump U lawsuits, etc add infinitum will be daily MSM food if Trump wins the nomination.
OMT, I would like to see a townhall type set of interviews in which candidates were ask about the positives of other candidates. For instance, Sen Rubio, what role do you see Sen Cruz playing to advance your goals in your administration? This would give us a chance to see all the candidates in a different light.
All may not be lost. Something interesting seems to be happening. This is the fourth straight state where the GOP has smashed its previous turnout records. Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Carson are galvanizing the Republican base just as Obama brought out record numbers of Democrats in 2008. Another puzzling thing. Trump appears to have won the (Republican) Hispanic vote. Is it possible many Hispanic and Latino-American voters are worried about open borders too? Concerned about the impact on wages and jobs from a flooded labor market? Another thing. Awhile back I saw a husband and wife interviewed in New Hampshire who had voted for Trump. They mentioned they had voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012. Maybe there really is some kind of backlash building against Obama, the Dems, the leftist media, etc. How about Rubio, Cruz or Carson as VP. Or cabinet positions etc. I still remain a Rubio supporter and he could do much better on Super Tuesday. But if not there are other possibilities.
Am in dialog with wife on what to do if trump nominated. she says she’ll stay home (not vote). That is not an option for me. Guess I’ll hold my nose and vote trump. there is simply too much at stake. Yet a trump nomination will lead to a Billary victory, as sure as the sun rises in the east.
“Maybe there really is some kind of backlash building against Obama, the Dems, the leftist media, etc.” (Bob’s comment above)
I was thinking something similar as I read Neo’s post. Looking for some kind of silver lining in what looks to me like a pretty dark cloud: the Trump phenomenon may have permanently widened the “opinion corridor”–wasn’t that the term that’s been used to describe the parameters of acceptable discourse? And with that might come a shift in the boundary of feasible or at least thinkable policies. Of course that means nothing if you can’t win elections.
I’m looking at sitting out the election if it’s Trump vs. Hillary. I honestly do not know which would be worse for the country.
Btw, re Fox and Trump: I’ve been saying for many years that Fox is not conservative in any meaningful sense. They just know how to attract viewers, and recognized that there was a big untapped audience for simple, noisy news stories and right-ish attitudes.
And also for infobabes, of course.
Neo, your insight on Oct. 2, 2012 about the Republican Party tearing itself apart was so true it’s scary. It is like you have future vision.
There is little doubt now that Trump will be the nominee leaving those of us who can’t support a man on a white horse with nowhere to go. And there is also no doubt any longer that the Republican Party electorate, and conservative leaders like Rush Limbaugh who are supporting him, approve of and want the kind of physical, brown shirt tactics he WILL use. Here is Limbaugh yesterday fanning the flames:
But it’s about a last chance, a last-gasp effort at preserving the culture that developed after the founding of this country. It’s no more complicated than that, folks. The country’s under siege from all quarters, and recently the Democrat Party has joined those who have put the country under siege.
These people have to be defeated. They have to be overwhelmed. And then after they’re defeated they cannot be allowed to bully whoever wins into cowardice and caving in. It’s going to be tough. Winning an election is just a tiny first step. After we win the election, it’s gonna take perseverance to prevail over all the attempts to subvert the winners of the election and to corrupt what’s going on, knowing they still own a lot of the bureaucracy.
The second thing is, “Rush,” — and this is not just you — “Rush, we can’t deport 12 million people. We’re never gonna –” Who says? All that is is a conversation stopper. We are the United States of America. Who says we can’t get rid of people who are here illegally? It’s not a question of we can’t. It’s a question of do we have the resolve to? Do we have the desire to? Does it makes sense to do it? Are we gonna do it — and, believe me, even if we win on this, the people opposing it are gonna be firing ammo at whoever wins like you can’t believe.
This is a world governed by the aggressive use of power, the aggressive use of force, and if you want to maintain both, you have to fight for it each and every day.
We’re gonna need people with such backbone and guts and steel and iron to hold up and to withstand what’s gonna come at ’em, you can’t even imagine it.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/02/23/must_hear_rush_blows_the_lights_out_in_the_final_hour_what_this_election_is_really_about_and_what_s_really_at_stake
Why didn’t he just say we need a man with an Iron Fist?
I’m not a religious person but I said a prayer this morning asking that his man not be elected. Maybe, like Job, we are to be tested. I don’t know. What I do know is that if he is elected and they start rounding up illegal aliens I will be in the protest march shoulder to shoulder with La Raza. There will not be ethnic cleansing, internment camps, confiscation of belongings, and children wrenched from their parents arms in this country while I have a breath of life left in me.
“They mentioned they had voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012. Maybe there really is some kind of backlash building against Obama, the Dems, the leftist media, etc.”
I think this just proves that suckers in one election will still be suckers in the next one.
Sadly, the logical conclusion to my last comment is that Trump will surely be the next president.
I was for Scott Walker and then was proven wrong. The Trump phenomenon unfortunately corresponded late summer with me reading the Ian Kershaw biography of Hitler. I’m not comparing them, but one commonality is how many dismissed Hitler as a buffoon. And he wasn’t anything a lot of others were not also saying — the difference was his level of anger, the “low” way in which he said these things, his rudeness and lack of ordinary good manners.
Trump might be better compared to Huey Long, though I vastly prefer Huey Long (assassinated in 1935). Long had a successful national radio program, a great sense of humor, and his “Share Our Wealth” populism threatened FDR in the coming primaries of the next year.
I’m not so quick to assume Hillary will beat Trump.
And yet as offensive as Trump appears to be, I wonder how much of this is simply an act utilizing his supposed negotiating skills to gain a working majority of voters. Maybe I am trying to view this sad situation in the most favorable light.
As I noted in an earlier comment, there are a lot of people in “flyover” country. They haven’t voted much in the last couple decades, because no Republican Presidential candidate said anything they wanted to hear. When Obama said he’d change everything in Washington, some so wanted to believe him that they voted for him. When they realized they’d been taken for fools, they twice voted in a Republican Congress, to correct their mistake. And watched as those gutless wonders did nothing, paralyzed by the fear of upsetting the status quo, fear of being called racist, fear of what the MsM would say. The flyover people realize they were fooled.
They knew what Trump meant when he said “Let’s make America great again!” Notice that he said “again.” He, and much of America, is looking back to the America that we had before the liberal elites began destroying it. We were far more conservative then. Bringing that back is a truly conservative notiion.
They also know that Trump is not bound by “political correctness.” Orwell told us that those who control the language control everything. Trump is using words that still have meaning, words we used to use. He says things the way they need to be said.
“Build a wall.”
“Throw the illegals out.”
“Keep Muslims out of the country until we learn how to vet terrorists.”
“Torture terrorists if needed.”
“Destroy ISIS.”
There is deep remembrance how the “sophisticated elites” destroyed Sarah Palin because she didn’t speak and act the way “they” thought she should. They revealed that they not only consider themselves far superior to, but actually hate, flyover people. Trump stands up to those who would be our betters, which terrifies them, because the elites fear being the Emperor after the little boy said he had no clothes.
That is why Trump is bringing large numbers of new voters to this election. If the criminal Clinton becomes the Democrats’ nominee, the country will need those votes — and the establishment Republican votes.
You go to to war with the Army, and the Generals, you have. We are in a war.
Well the writing is on the wall now. Not going to say my prediction from here on since I missed the SC primary so badly. Course I expected Cruz to do much better building bridges with other campaigns, not burning them down.
So in the end, the GOPe knows that I would accept Rubio as an alt, but the question is, would all those trump followers accept him? I think not.
So once again, the stupid party has allowed the media to manipulate them into providing the only possible way for Hillary to win, even while facing an FBI that will be forced to suggest she be charged.
Impossible to imagine a way to make hillary the next president other than what the trumpers are doing right now. Yet they just do not see it. They are going to be shell shocked watching her take the oath of office and pardoning all her aides.
I am with others, but I will hold off saying I wont vote for Trump. I am going to wait and see, if forced into that choice my gut says Hillary is the lesser evil, because no way in hell does she get anything thru congress.
The trump supporters deserve a chance to make their case, I will listen, but if your candidate does not start acting like a conservative, then do not whine to me when you lose. Cause the rest of us are not going to cut our own throats, we will oblige you to fight. You had a great non establishment candidate with impeccable conservative cred, and you went for the snake oil salesman.
I’m with those who abhor Trump and think he can’t win against the Clintons, but for an opposing view, here’s a link to what Roger Simon has written at PJmedia: http://tinyurl.com/hzdk4gt.
Simon’s piece is called “The Republican Establishment Needs to Stop Worrying and Love the Donald.” Simon is a screenwriter; and his title is, of course, a reference to “Dr. Strangelove.” (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/)
Roger Simon is a pretty good writer with a great sense of humor, but this joke makes me a little queasy. I can’t imagine giving Donald Trump authority over our nuclear weapons. There are plenty of other reasons why I can’t support him, but that one’s pretty fundamental. It’s, as they say, existential.
Reply to Cindy:
As Neo points out to us, Trump is bringing in new voters. In political parlance, he may have “long coattails.” Those new voters are going to vote for the Republican candidates for the Senate and the House. Even some “blue” states could wind up electing Republicans.
I believe in the plan set out in the Constitution. Congress has the power to keep the Executive in check. The past eight years have been an aberration, mostly due, IMO, to the fear of being seen as “racist,” were they to stand up to the First Black President (even if Ben Carson doesn’t think so!). It will also be easier for Congress to stand up to Trump because they will be in the same party, and importantly, the MsM will be doing all it can to tear him down (even though I doubt any of their “reporters” will be invited to White House press conferences).
Trump will beat Hillary. You can throw everything at Trump (all of his past that you don’t like), and it in no way compares to Hillary’s problems. Sorry. Just doesn’t equal the level of bad that Hillary has.
Her email/server scandal broke the law. National Security law. Show me where Trump has done anything that equals that level of badness.
You can’t.
Who wants to vote for a criminal? And I guarantee you that Hillary will come out of the race looking like a criminal. Trump will likely say day in and day out that he will prosecute her for her crimes as he started out the other day.
Please imagine a presidential debate where Trump says to Hillary on live TV that the day he gets into office, he will be prosecute her. He will. Tell me how young Democrat millennials will line up behind Hillary? A vote for Hillary would be a vote for a criminal.
Whatever you want to say about Trump’s past, it in no way reaches the level of corruption and law-breaking of Hillary and Bill. Period.
To be clear, I’ve supported Cruz from the beginning. He’s really bright and more important articulate unlike Bush and McCain. It’s looking like Cruz won’t make it. Time to move on.
Trump is not the anti-Christ. The hyperbolic ranting may be fun but doesn’t reflect reality.
Trumps weaknesses are clear;
–he’s not a traditional conservative, neither was George W. Bush, McCain or Romney.
–he is not all that articulate;
–he is crude;
–never having held office we don’t know how true to his word he will be.
Trumps strengths are clear as well:
–as the nominee, Republicans would have a candidate with balls, unlike the last two;
–he does support real immigration reform without which Republicans/conservatives will never win elections in the future.
–he does generate excitement.
If Trump is the nominee not voting would be suicidal. Clinton would be a disaster.
I share the despair.
Jim:
“…no way in hell does (Hillary) get anything thru congress.”
Screw Congress. Obama has already shown her how to get everything she wants – Executive Orders/Memos, regulations, stonewall Congress, selective enforcement/non-enforcement, indirectly direct the bureaucracies to target the right, capitalism and other enemies, continue placing radical Marxists into high civil service slots, slow-walk FOIAs, quash FBI investigations, and more.
McConnell has pledged to allow the next POTUS SCOTUS nominee a hearing. 1) What if POTUS is Hillary? 2) What if the Majority leader is Schumer?
Of course, there’s always impeachment but 1) what if the MSM cows the R’s again with charges of vaginaism(tm)? 2) the Rs would need to pick up 13 Senate seats to make it stick. How likely is that in a year Hillary wins POTUS, and the Rs have 24 seats up to the Ds 10?
1. Sometimes a better perspective can be attained through a break. Neo and some of the other posters here are upset about Trump. So why not take a break, and just post something on the primary results as they come in every two weeks or so?
2. We don’t need to have daily comments on the Republican primary. There are lots of other things going on in the country, and in the rest of the world.
3. I think people at other places like the National Review and ricochet.com are getting a tunnel vision mentality, and assuming the worst possible outcome. And all the negative things they say now may end up making them look bad later on.
4. My small state has a late and inconsequential primary. But if Chris Christie or Jeb Bush had won the nomination, instead of dropping out, then I would have voted for them in November–just as I will vote for that person who stays in the race, and does achieve the nomination.
5. As a reminder, you can also support Neo’s website by clicking through the Amazon.com link to order your very own “Make America Great Again” cap, or other item. You can also get T-shirts, hoodies, coffee mugs, and bumper stickers!
I have been a Cruz supporter from early on. To all here who are going on record as supporting Hillary should Trump be the nominee, has it occurred to you that a possible reason Trump ran is to pave the way for Hillary? In my circle, from the inception of his campaign, a number of friends suspected that might be the case. A Hillary presidency will likely result in the same passivity of our Congress and collusion of our Supreme Court that we have encountered with this present administration. If it unhappily comes down to Trump/Hillary, I’d rather take my chances with Trump and the Congress and Court rediscovering their proper role in the framework.
Any Republicans or conservatives who stay home or vote for Hillary if Trump is the nominee, are having a tantrum that puts the country in extreme danger.
We know that Hillary has always been a hard leftist who will continue to transform the country. At least with Trump there will be a chance some good decisions will be made.
Think of the Supreme Court.
“I think a Trump nomination would be pretty much the same as a Hillary victory, because the first would be very likely to lead to the second.”
If we’re going by the polls (dangerous), that one may be stood on its head.
Like all the others.
Does anybody really believe the One True Ted can beat Trump? He can’t even beat the Whigs. His last finish better than third was IA.
As for Rubio, it does look as if the Whigs are coalescing around him. Kasich might be a better choice, but it looks to be going to the same place.
Joe:
“Tantrum” is a highly inappropriate word.
It is not a tantrum to be concerned about a man with the complete lack of experience, and of temperament or knowledge, to be president.
That he might be better than Hillary (or arguably, worse) is not that much of a guide. Best not to insult people by trivializing their valid and deep concerns about the man.
RE: “Neither of the two alternatives–President Trump or President Hillary–feels the least bit good to me.”
I agree for the main reason that you’ve repeatedly stated: you don’t know what Trump is going to do. However, I also believe that (1) GOPe will never work with him, (2) DEMs will never work with him, (3) MSM will never accept him, and (4) he doesn’t have the necessary tools to operate in such a hostile environment.
I also believe that Trump doesn’t have the integrity that I’m looking for in a candidate.
I may be casting another write-in for “None Of The Above”.
Sec. Hillary Clinton is hopelessly corrupt and incompetent. Unless she collapses on stage, I also believe that she easily wins against any GOP nominee. Her election will be a significant signpost that the Law is dead.
Sadly, the country is headed to a very bad end. It will be better to have the Dems drive us off the cliff.
…you can also support Neo’s website by clicking through the Amazon.com link to order your very own “Make America Great Again” cap, or other item. You can also get T-shirts, hoodies, coffee mugs, and bumper stickers!
I want a “Neo-Neo” t-shirt with a big Granny Smith on it. (I’d rather have one with her picture, but it seems she’s kinda shy.) Do they have any like that on Amazon?
Joe, I agree with you. The thought of people here, pledging to vote for someone who has violated the sacred trust of office (private server & Benghazi, anyone?) makes me furious. That is complicity in crime. Trump may be an ______(fill in the blank), but he hasn’t put our military and ambassadors in jeopardy and made his millions off the public purse. If that is what you think he will do, then not voting would be far superior to aligning yourself with the evil (yes, evil) that is the legacy of Hillary Clinton.
@K-E: Most of America are LIVs. They’d like “to make history” again as they did with Obama and vote in Hillary as the first female POTUS. She also carries the Clinton brand. Emails? What emails?
sigh … I will vote for the Republican nominee just as I started doing in every Presidential election since 1976.
formwiz:
Interestingly, the polls have been pretty darn good so far, haven’t they?
The polls are the only evidence we have, and they all agree that Trump is the weakest candidate of all the GOP candidates against the Democrat. That has been true right along. Of course it could change. But the MSM and Democrats haven’t even begun to fight him, and they won’t have to do much research to find ways to attack him—it’s easy. They have all the articles written and they are salivating to do it.
There is no evidence whatsoever for his fabled support among Democrats or among blacks. I read things like “he got the Hispanic vote in Nevada, 40%!!” Meaning, the Republican Hispanic vote. That does not represent “the Hispanic vote.”
In your criticism of One True Ted (not sure who you think here is so worshipful of him, although he has been my leading candidate for a while) you forget one thing: he has done better than about 13 (I forget the original count) other candidates, and right now is splitting the “not-Trump” vote with Rubio close to equally. Polls say that if it’s Ted vs. Trump, a two-man race for the nomination, Ted beats Trump. So your argument is rather silly.
Ted also does better against Hillary and Sanders in polls.
So cut the snark. At the moment, though, it doesn’t look like Ted’s going to become the nominee. I believe the country, and the GOP, will be the worse for that. But of the remaining two, Rubio stands head and shoulders above Trump, and has the advantage of beating Hillary in the polls–the only evidence we have right now about who could win.
Yankee:
That’s a great idea. Support Neo while buying Trump paraphernalia!
Well, a lot of venting going on.
First, for those who throw up the straw man alleging that people are comparing Trump to Hitler, that is fallacious. No,he isn’t Hitler; and this is not 1933, nor the Weimar Republic suffering from a devastating defeat in war. We understand that. Still, Trump has proven that he will use his wealth, and the justice system to try to crush anyone who gets in his way. We can only judge him by his actions and his words (and no I do not believe that he will change). It is only right and natural to worry about what he will do with his own pet Attorney General, and all of the rest of the power of government. No, the Congress and the Courts will not effectively control him. They have sadly become trick ponies, or like eunuchs when confronting a determined Chief Executive.
Harold’s slander of the last two Republican candidates is just disgusting. McCain doesn’t have “balls” (to put it as crudely as he did)? I do not care for McCain but I would never question his courage. Romney doesn’t have proven strength of character? What silliness. In the case of Romney, you obviously mistake courtesy and gentlemanly behavior for weakness–as so many do in the case of Bush, father and son. You, my friend, do sound like Trump with your crudely disparaging portrayal of honorable men.
goekstr:
You know, I actually once looked into getting T-shirts with my photo on them, and selling them, but I could only order them in bulk to make it cost-effective, and somehow I don’t think there’s that big a market for them 🙂 .
K-E:
Plenty of people are willing to vote for Hillary, warts and all, because they vote for the party. Just as the people on our side who don’t like Trump will probably vote for him, warts and all. And yes, of course they have different warts, but that’s not the point.
People are looking for a reason not to vote for her. They are looking over the Republican field, even many who have never voted Republican in their lives. I know these people. Many of them refuse to vote for Trump, as do many lifelong Republicans.
She should be easy to beat. I don’t think she will be. I think the GOP is on the way to nominating the only candidate who would NOT beat her. I certainly could be wrong about this, of course.
For anybody who might want a neoneocon t-shirt — or jacket, or mug, or cap, etc. — you can design your own at CafePress. For a design, they accept photos, graphics, text, and combinations.
http://www.cafepress.com/make/custom-t-shirts
Neo:
CafePress also has an option for sellers to submit a design and sell products through their site. Not sure whether that’d make you enough money to be worth the trouble, but here’s a link http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/index.aspx?area=openashop&page=openashop
This feels a little like stalking, but what the hell …
Neo:
Trump arguably worse that Hillary? I cannot imagine any such argument.
He is rude and crude and my last choice among the Republicans. But Hillary is an order of magnitude worse than Trump. With him we stand a chance, with her none.
Or does Hillary have some redeeming value that
I have missed?
I don’t the email business makes any impact on the minds of Democrats. It’s means absolutely nothing to them. Zero. Even if she’s indicted, which she won’t be if Loretta Lynch has any say, which I think she does.
Neither McCain or Romney had the political courage to effectively attack Obama on his many weaknesses (no balls). Their personal virtues were and are irrelevant. It isn’t slander to recognize reality.
Reading through the comments, a few things came to mind:
I read the Rush rant and, well.
Trump didn’t vindicate angry voters any more than he did Rush. If Reagan was running now, I doubt any of the fellow traveler talkers would recognize him.
I think it would be a low chance Trump will have Republican coattails. it is very possible those disaffected Democrats he gathers will vote for a Democrat Senator or Rep. Reagan did not have both houses of Congress the entire 8 years. If people are mad at congress, Republicans own the blame.
I cannot vote Trump. I will vote third party, write in, or leave blank.
Donks will have no trouble voting for a criminal. None at all, even if incarcerated. If you don’t know this to be true, you have not been paying attention.
Expect two things: President Clinton and a new blockbuster reality show from the trumpster.
Neo, you can look at the Democrat primary turn-out and see that there is little enthusiasm on the left for the two candidates they have to choose from.
Bernie voters are going to be angry voters…or they won’t vote at all. That is the feeling I get from the young people I know who despise Clinton with every fiber of their being. Ain’t gonna happen.
There’s enough ‘moderate’ to Trump’s campaigning that he will be able to draw Democrats to him. Immigration and trade is big with the union crowd.
It’s gonna be a rollicking 2016!
I want to see more state polls like this one:
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/ohio/release-detail?ReleaseID=2326
Ohio is an important swing state in the general. So is VA, PA, FL, and others. This is what we should be focusing on. In every match up with Hillary, including Trump, the Republicans win. The nationwide polling numbers are junk. Need to see more state polling!
K-E, I’m with you on the state by state break outs.
BUT.
I’m solidly convinced that Donald is repulsive to enough Republicans to have real trouble holding onto Romney’s Electoral Votes.
There really are enough GOP — stay-at-homes — who believe that the end is nigh and that the end of days ought to carry the (D) brand.
Such is nihilism.
I’m not anywhere as alarmed as neo WRT President Trump.
I’m on her same page WRT electability. I just don’t see it.
He got SO much baggage — video clips — interviews — that establish him as a Liberal Democrat — that he’ll infuriate GOP voters.
He will NOT be able to woo Democrats to cross parties in sufficient amounts — IN THE KEY STATES — where it counts.
I can easily see him getting huge numbers to do so here in California — while the state remains a lock for the (D).
Hence, you don’t dare use national polling to figure out November.
&&&&&&&
In the South… Trump is going to be lucky to do as well as Mitt.
If the American political demographic in 2012 was the same as 1980… Mitt Romney would’ve had a blow out victory… BIGGER than Reagan’s !
He lost because of the Latino vote… and Google//MSFT tabulation fraud.
By now the general public realizes that ALL of the software written can be hacked.
That verity is true because the NSA insists on hack-ability from both MSFT, Apple and Intel.
Hack-ability is engineered from the ground up.
The latest dust up with Apple turns on the FBI// NSA wanting Apple to put the hack-doors BACK into Apple’s OS.
What is installed by Apple// MSFT can ALWAYS be found by alien powers… with Israel probably the first through the door.
( Intel chips are designed in Haifa, Israel — hint, hint. )
I figure that MSFT and Google will hack the 2016 vote, too.
I’d even bet real money that MSFT is boosting Rubio to crush Cruz.
Hence, Rubio’s AMAZING numbers levitation — which is causing everyone to misread his popularity.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2016/02/24/got-hacked-my-mac-while-writing-story/80844720/
More on the deliberate establishment of backdoors into virtually everything.
What the reporter does not realize is that such backdoors ALREADY exist.
Apple is trying to terminate the practice.
Did you know that with an app, a fellow with a smart phone can TURN OFF YOUR ELECTRIC POWER — from the curb?
Yes, the digital power meters used across this land can be hacked — and very easily.
Without a power company connection signal — even one’s solar panels stop working.
I think we’d better start thinking about Trump as the nominee.
What can we say about him? I think we can agree that he will be strong on immigration, he will be strong on defense, he will be a fiscal conservative, he will be better at negotiations, he will get rid of Obamacare. I think we are pretty confident that he will be a social liberal (some people would call that libertarian!), except possibly, he may be anti-abortion. He will be a wielder of executive power, not only to get things done but to reward his friends and punish his enemies.
Now lets look at the Evil Empress. She will work to legitimize illegal immigrants, she will cut defense, she will spend like there’s no tomorrow, she will give away the store in every negotiation she enters into, she will move toward a single-payer health system, she will be a social liberal, she will support and fund abortion in all circumstances, she will work for the elimination (in practice) of the First and Second amendments, she will appoint an extreme leftist to the Supreme Court. She will be a wielder of executive power, not only to get things done but to reward her friends and punish her enemies.
Trump is a f*cker, and I hate f*ckers, so I hate Trump. BUT (let me say that again) BUT, when you put them side by side, there’s no reason whatsoever any conservative would not vote or vote for Hillary over Trump.
That being said, I’m much more worried about how Trump will do against Good Old Uncle Joe, whom I think will be the Dem nominee. I think the Donald’s asininity will only redound to the sympathy vote for Joe.
The question is not who will best motivate the base. Except for a few outliers, the Republican base will vote for the Republican nominee and the Democrat base will vote for the Democrat nominee.
The question is, what will the middle, the loose affiliates, independents, LIVs, do? I’m not willing to put any money down yet, but so far, it sure looks like Trump will get more votes from them than any other Republican candidate.
Oldflyer:
“nor the Weimar Republic suffering from a devastating defeat in war”
The rhetoric in the Narrative contest for the zeitgeist is interesting because Trump-front alt-Right activists have argued that Trump is the right choice because America is degenerating like the Weimar Republic.
But when the analogy is turned around to warn against Trump, then it’s “Arguing that we can expect an outcome similar to Weimar is an argument from analogy which is always weak and bad analogy at that” (Dennis).
From Trump’s acceptance speech last night:
“We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated. We’re the smartest people, we’re the most loyal people…”
That has got to resonate with a lot of people, even lots of Democrats.
And even though polls now show him losing to Hillary, I think with Gov. Susana Martinez as his VP that would change.
Trump is Jesse Ventura gone national.
I know this sounds exactly like what Pauline Kael said in 1972 about not knowing how Nixon ever got elected because she knew no one who voted for him, but I do know lots of conservatives and Republicans — hell, I’ve been embedded with them all my life! – and don’t personally know anyone who admits to supporting Trump. Not a soul. That tells me that maybe I’m living inside the same kind of bubble in which the Manhattanites live.
But it also tells me that I — and others like me – have very little in common with Trump supporters and do not understand them. I agree in general with Neo’s take on Trump, but despite my concerns that he might be fascistic (in the textbook sense of the word), a jerk, and not nearly as smart as he thinks he is, I must say that if he gets the nomination I believe I’ll “take the pig in a poke” and vote for him over HRC. I won’t be happy about it but I sure as hell won’t stay home. I agree with Rush that the over-arching objective now must be to defeat the Dems, progressivism and the Gramscian march. I worry about a Trump presidency but at this point believe that after all is said and done, Trump wants to be seen as a beloved uber-celebrity and a “deal maker” and would not become a tyrant. I could be wrong, but at this point, at least, I’m still resolved to vote GOP regardless of who the nominee is. If Trump goes independent, it’s all over anyway.
Neo:
“I already see some evidence of it in articles and comments from the right that accuse Romney of not wanting to win, of not going on the attack enough…of not doing whatever it might be that the brilliant armchair strategists would be doing if they were running for president, an election they of course would win by dint of their brilliant strategy.”
It wasn’t Romney’s fault.
Romney didn’t lose to Obama one-on-one or even party-candidate-on-party-candidate like a traditional election.
Romney lost to Obama of/and the Democrat-front Left-activist movement that competes on a broader range than traditional electoral politics.
The counter-action that Republicans needed to adjust to Obama’s advantage was and has been Right activism. But the GOP can’t supply their own Right activism any more than Democrats supplied their own Left activism.
Problem is, mainstream conservatives of the Right steadfastly refuse to be activist, and instead, blame and pass the buck to the GOP for the harms that result from the Right’s self-imposed activist deficiency.
The Trump campaign is progressing in main factor of the strategic decision to follow Democrat-front Left precedent by allying with Left-mimicking alt-Right activists to exploit the gaping competitive vulnerability for the GOP that’s caused by conservatives who refuse to be activist.
Would someone please check Hillary’s email to see if she and the Donald have been colluding in order to get her elected?
carl in atlanta:
“I agree with Rush that the over-arching objective now must be to defeat the Dems, progressivism and the Gramscian march.”
That will take spectrum activism by the Right on a (counter) Gramscian march.
I’ll suggest, again, taking a look at David Harsanyi’s article at thefederalist.com for an opinion on why Hillary would be marginally better than Trump. (access it by list of contributors at top of home page)
A republican house will feel obligated to work with Trump and we know Trump wants to make deals. Nice, yuge big government deals. The House will at least have an incentive to block Hillary and not work with her. And no, I’d never vote for her. And as my state has turned blue, it probably won’t matter if I don’t vote this time.
I will vote in the primary next Tuesday for Cruz because he’s my candidate until it’s officially over.
KLSmith-Hillary was a part of undoing every gain wrought by the blood and treasure spent in the ME. She has criminally violated her position as Secy of State. She has used the Clinton foundation to fill her personal coffers. Anyone who would make a case that she should be voted for under any circumstances impugns every principle of our Republic.
Richard Saunders:
In fact, in all national polls, Trump draws a smaller percentage of Independents than either Rubio or Cruz does when facing Hillary.
I know that. I’m not sure I believe that. Plus there’s Big Mo. We shall see.
Richard Saunders, you and I know what Trump is, a con man. As a tax attorney you said you dealt with the type and pretty much summed up what to expect from him, even that he might tell the truth on occasion. My experience knowing these types of people comes from business deals and lawsuits. We are both in agreement as to their basic nature which boils to the fact that they lack a moral center and in extreme cases a conscience.
Trump is an extreme case. There is a pathology at work. I’m no psychologist but he appears to suffer an inferiority disorder. That may sound strange since he constantly boasts about his deal making abilities and flaunts his monetary success. But his inability to take any kind of criticism and the vindictiveness of his attacks is not normal, even in con artists. Combine those character traits with a suppressed anger, and then give him the power and means to fully act out, and you’ve got a despot of the first order.
There have been several recent clues that he is biding his time, waiting for the proper excuse after he’s been elected to really get even with those people who have dared to belittle him. At one of his recent rallies he had a protester thrown out and said that there was a time when he would have been beaten or worse. He praised the story of the general who supposedly had 50 bullets dipped in pig’s blood to use against Muslims enemies. These show a man not just wanting power, but someone who wants to use that power for revenge.
No, I won’t vote for him. I’ll sit out the election and hope that something, anything will intervene to stop him. He’s a danger to us and to the world.
Sharon W: yes, Hillary is loathsome. That is why I said I would never vote for her, nor would I encourage anyone else to. And on a completely superficial level, I would rather listen to nails on a chalkboard than listen to her voice.
I’m saying that some principled conservative and libertarian voices are making arguments worth considering that Trump could be worse than Hillary. Or that she will not be so much worse that someone needs to violate all of their principles to vote for Trump.
And I would add, especially if you live in a reliably blue state, do not torture yourself with angst over not voting this time if Trump is the nominee and he violates your principles or worries you too much.
Maybe Trump won’t be so bad, especially for all of those people who want both sides to work together to get stuff done. I would prefer them to UNDO some stuff and leave me as alone as possible. If Trump becomes president, he’ll be doing it without my vote.
I agree with Joe at 12:32
As I have posted before, I will not vote for Trump in the primary. I will vote for whoever is left. Having said that I will vote for Trump in the general. Unless this is some crazy Clinton scheme (think Marcellus Wallace “in the fifth your a– goes down”) to have Trump roll the race in the general, he is still a better vote than Clinton. If she wins, it really is all over, if Trump wins, maybe there is a chance.
Trump is basically a bomb. If/when he goes off, everything will be damaged – not just those parts his backers might wish to be damaged.
I still think Bernie represents a worse risk, but if it were Trump vs Clinton, I’m just not sure that more identity politics and more illegals on the dole is worse than what Trump might be capable of.
He praised the story of the general who supposedly had 50 bullets dipped in pig’s blood to use against Muslims enemies. These show a man not just wanting power, but someone who wants to use that power for revenge.
I don’t think revenge was a motivating factor.
With many radical Muslims, dying in the cause of Islam is considered the highest honor. For us, it’s like having to fight an army of ground based kamikazes, looking forward to their 72 virgins.
As I remember the story, the pig’s blood would stop them from going to heaven, in effect, preventing them from getting laid again for all of eternity. It was hoped the story would spread and the Muslim troops would be far less anxious to die in the name of Allah.
It is possible Trump doesn’t get the nuances, and sees it as a form of revenge or punishment.
“We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated. We’re the smartest people, we’re the most loyal people…”
That sentiment is a Marxist [Maoist] one. It’s the idea that uneducated people are more pure and harder workers and more loyal. It’s complete b.s. Not to mention the reason some politicians like this is because the less well educated don’t question authority much due to their lack of political power.
KL Smith:
The Congress of unknown makeup will work to stymie Pres Hillary about as well as the present one has stymied Obama. Hope springs eternal.
It would be easier for Congress to stymie Bernie the Red.
The Other Chuck — the only point on which we disagree is that I think Trump would occasionally do things that would benefit the country, even if only by accident, whereas the Evil Empress will, never, ever, do anything that benefits the country.
Looking at 2012, Romney actually did rather well. It’s hard to defeat an incumbent, unless the economy is bad, or there is a foreign policy mess. Plus, Obama had the advantage of good timing, coming in right after a financial crisis, and an unpopular war. And things had improved by 2012, and Obama could be given the benefit of the doubt, all the more so as the first black President.
Then, in early 2013, it seemed many were blaming Romney’s defeat on not reaching out to Hispanics, and his comments during the campaign on self-deportation. Thus, the “immigration reform” bill in 2013, the Gang of Eight in the Senate, and support for that bill from Rubio and Jeb Bush. And look where we are now!
(And as an aside, possibly some of George W. Bush’s bad poll numbers from 2006 onward were due in part to how he pushed so hard for “immigration reform” back then.)
The idea that Trump is WORSE than Rodham-Clinton ?
GET REAL.
&&&&&&&
“It will be her versus a fucking asshole in almost any scenario,” mused one prominent Obama loyalist. “It’s going to be a lot of fear, but she’s going to have a lot of room to run, and she’s not going to have to destroy the other person, because the other person is going to be so eminently destroyable.”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/be-afraid#.niW66qkElR
Are we seeing legit posters — or trolls from the HRC campaign?
HRC has more baggage than an invasion convoy.
She’s a weaker candidate than Bernie Sanders — that’s what the polling shows.
&&&&&&
The prospect of Trump going Third Party is now obviously ZERO.
&&&&&&&
Scott Adams asserts that the average voter pays no attention to policy at all.
For such matters are out of their reach — intellectually.
Michael W. Ferguson labels them “The Clueless” — IQ <98…
http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html
One of — if not THE most critical — hurdles for Ted Cruz is that he's so smart that he bowls over the rest of the crowd.
Read the link immediately above.
THEN you'll understand Donald's appeal.
He's targeting "The Clueless" — or LIV voter.
And does it ever show.
Both Bernie and Hillary are ALSO aiming at this demographic.
Anyone with their mind switched to "on" realizes that she's a total sleeze with a psychotic power lust… and that Bernie's in fantasy land.
I ought to mention that as the hour of Hillary's rise approaches — the markets should absolutely TANK.
In this, the markets will repeat the debacle eight-years ago.
&&&&&&
I smell a hook up between Rubio and Trump.
This tie-in would go FAR towards explaining the current race dynamic.
With Trump feeding Rubio material.
Being just a puppy-fish — he's swallowing it whole.
Ditto for Dr. Carson.
Trump is "helping" him out, too.
Dopes.
geokstr Says:
February 24th, 2016 at 4:54 pm
He praised the story of the general who supposedly had 50 bullets dipped in pig’s blood to use against Muslims enemies. These show a man not just wanting power, but someone who wants to use that power for revenge.
&&&&&&
That tale actually dates back to the British vs Muslim fighting in INDIA — in the 19th Century.
No American military commander has ever been associated with that tactic.
It worked, BTW.
&&&&
Pig contaminated cartridges were a MAJOR factor in the Sepoy Mutiny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857#Tallow_and_lard-greased_cartridges
&&&&&
Psychological warfare methods used at that time became legendary.
Pig’s blood
Pig’s anything….
It’s universally accepted in the Philippines that such psychological warfare methods ( by Pershing ) terminated the Moro rebellion — practically overnight.
If it was done — it was not recorded in the US Army official reports.
Duh.
It was never recorded in the British Army’s official reports, either… from fifty-years before.
Duh.
Such tactics are EXACTLY what would qualify as Classified Information.
Something that totally eludes many Leftist revisionists.
Yankee:
And one of those people criticizing Romney’s self-deportation scheme (as being “mean”) was none other than Donald Trump.
Anybody who thinks that Hillary is preferable to Trump is certifiable.
Seriously, get a fucking grip.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is apparently a real thing.
Tom Nichols at thefederalist.com quoting Alexander Hamilton, ” If we must have an enemy at the head of government, let it be one whom we can oppose and for whom we are not responsible.”
If Trump is such a flawed candidate like so many here claim, then what does it say about the rest of the GOP’s field of candidates and their inability (except for Cruz in Iowa) to defeat him?
Here is why Trump is winning: the GOPe has no balls. McCain and Romney were too scared to aggressively go after Obama. They prefered to go after the conservative base. They are too scared to use the power of the purse for fear of being blamed for a government shutdown. What exactly did we get with the recent Omnibus bill? The GOPe wants amnesty for cheap labor. We gave the GOP control of Congress and the Senate and got nothing in return. We are tired of being taken for granted. If the GOPe still cannot understand why their is so much utter contempt for them, then they should simply disband and I will not shed a tear.
I held my nose and voted for McCain, Romney and my senator from Illinois Mark Kirk. Funny seeing so many here refusing to hold their noses and vote for Trump if he becomes the nominee.
I am a bit bemused by all the anti-Trump pro-Hillary postings here because no one seems to understand how large organizations like the government work.
How Obama is getting his policies done is not so much by executive decisions, but how how the beuracracy manages day to day tasks (which the executive decisions try to make official what is already being done). Some paper pusher at EPA can decide to go after a rancher for having a standing puddle under a wetlands violation. Or not. Or a clerk at ICE can decide to track down that info to do a deportation. Or let it sit in the in box. Day to day 1000s of decisions are made not by the executive but the mechanics of government.
Now the broad policies are set by the executive, and then by the cabinet officials and other political appointees who do the day to day workings of the government.
How would a flunky at ICE get rewarded and get visibility in a Hillary administration? How would they in a Trump one?
The executive doesn’t really do much but set the tone and vision. If you are more worried about a Trump enemy list than a million bureaucrats under Hillary, you really don’t operate in the real world but in an ivory tower of purity.
I work in the real business world in a senior position, have dealt with CEOs of multiple public companies in my time, and I will tell you most are insane. Seriously, I’m not exaggerating. Totally insane. But CEOs don’t run their companies, their people do. And their people will run their own personal agenda until stopped by the mechanics of the organization.
So if you like the government today then by all means vote Hillary. If you like how the CIA says their top agenda is diversity, and NASA’s is to reach out to Muslims then stay at home this election. But if the EPA and ICE aren’t to your liking then know that Trump, if elected, will have to bring in cabinet officials, UN ambassadors and other managers from the Republican Party. Otherwise they’ll all stay the same.
Everyone is transfixed by the CEO, when it’s their minions you should worry about.
Why in God’s name won’t Carson hang it up? most of his voters would go to Cruz. And that’s about the measure of difference between Cruz and Dondi Rubio in Nevada.
There will not be ethnic cleansing, internment camps, confiscation of belongings, and children wrenched from their parents arms in this country while I have a breath of life left in me.
Oh, for Pete’s sake. Calm down. No one has suggested anything of the sort.
Hillary is the lesser evil, because no way in hell does she get anything thru congress.
Really? Obama got EVERYTHING through Congress. EVERYTHING.
Valium, anyone? single-malt liquor? ‘luudes?
whatever: you make some excellent points and I think that you are correct about the bureaucracy.
They are the unelected unaccountable fourth branch of govt. However, the new president only appoints the top level people. Yes, that makes a difference at the edges but all those thousands and thousands of liberal Democrat bureaucrats are left in place.
skilaki Says:
February 24th, 2016 at 11:54 pm
The exact same people who have been telling me for years to shut up and fall in line.
That refusing to vote for the Republican nominee is exactly the same as casting a vote for the Democrat.
It’s not funny. It’s infuriating.
If its the right; well they’re destroying themselves…
neo-neocon:
“And one of those people criticizing Romney’s self-deportation scheme (as being “mean”) was none other than Donald Trump.”
That is true. But pointing that out can’t and won’t persuade a Trump supporter. Maybe it’s the announcement speech in June 2015, and its aftermath that counts. Trump has been a public figure for decades; people know him, and like him, and trust him to be on their side, and that he loves America.
This may be why Trump is doing better than two first-term junior Senators, both in their mid-40s, despite how they look on paper.
And the appeal is not just emotional. Everyone in the US can see what is happening in Europe, with the influx of “migrants” and “refugees”, and terrorist attacks. And the walls are going up, right now, in Europe.
For them, Trump is the rational choice, since he is in touch with what the people want, and with the events of the times. (And what will be said, if another million “Syrians” come to Europe, just in time for the national conventions here?)
Maybe Trump is like Ulysses S. Grant? Jeb Bush is the modern George McClellan? Everyone else is like the generals who are fighting the last war? See also this post by Mark Steyn on voter turn-out and the conventional wisdom:
http://www.steynonline.com/7441/the-math-and-the-map
Since 2008, we have been consoled by our alliance with more thoughtful and rational thinkers than the mindless Obamessiah-worshipping hordes. Now we must face the rambling incoherence of the current GOP frontrunner and his wrestlemania rabble. Obama and Hillary may be pathological liars, but at least they are intelligible. On the other hand, the Donald’s brain fart eruptions have sometimes been so senseless and contradictory that even he cannot follow them.
Exhibit A:
Trump: “I Really Don’t Even Know What I Mean” http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/02/22/donald-trump-really-dont-even-know-mean/
Trump will very much be a sort of Bill Clinton kind of figure. But he won’t bring along the leftist gang from the Democratic party. He also won’t be tempted by interns, as he already has the super-model wife.
What will that mean? He will be a pragmatist at heart. He will want to be popular and be seen as making things better. He doesn’t have an ideology to tell him how to do that, so he will depend on fights between different advisers and popular opinion to guide him.
In a way its refreshing (if disappointing), as conservatives can win a fair fight over results. Trump’s need to be seen as successful will give us as close a fair fight as we’ve had in a long time.
The big unknown will be his pronouncements in front of a microphone. The press will egg him on to discredit him, and get their own power back.
Jesse Ventura was a pretty good governor on the inside – if middle of the road ideologically. But he was a disaster in talking publicly. Trump will have the same challenges at a higher level.
Beverly, I take people at their word and assume Trump is dead serious about both building the wall, which I support as does Rubio, Cruz, and Paul Ryan, and also deporting 12,000,000 plus illegals. If he is as serious about this as I believe and if he wins with a landslide, which could happen despite Neo’s quotes of polls to the contrary, he will be in a position at the very least to start the ball rolling with deportations. Stop with delusions of what you want to see and come down off your euphoria at the prospect of a Trump victory for a minute, and look at the cold, hard facts of what it would be like to deport millions and millions of unwilling, settled in, low income working people with children. In California this would mean whole towns in the central valley would become vacant, as well as large sections of East LA and San Jose. The happy talk about self-deportation and getting Mexico to pay for a wall is also asinine.
Do you want fresh grapes, lettuce and spinach, and dozens of other fresh produce in the grocery store isle to suddenly disappear or become so costly as to be out of reach? Are you so deluded that you believe the millions of loafing bums with their cell phones and EBT cards will magically decide to give up their leisure at our expense and go to work, filling those jobs that are left vacant?
I’m sure that he will say, and probably already has said, that the removal will be done in a humane way. Yeah, right. You ever heard of civil disobedience? Many of these people are part of an underground economy and are paid in cash. He can’t just snap his fingers and bring sanctions on employers to get his results. And most of all, what about the citizen children of these people? If you think the graphics of one little Cuban boy being arrested by a SWAT team is bad, wait until you see it played out on TV with thousands of scared, crying children who are United States citizens.
Now, if you DON’T believe that Trump is serious about deportations, they why are you supporting the lying bastard?
Also Beverly, what I’ve been pointing out is the best case. You don’t want to hear what would be the worst. Let’s just say that there are elements waiting and hoping for deportation as an excuse.
My own assumption is different. I think a Trump nomination would be pretty much the same as a Hillary victory, because the first would be very likely to lead to the second.
VERY wrong..
they would not be this afraid if that was so
they would be telling you to vote for trump not cruz
doesnt anyone have any common sense that the left would fear and go nutters against a real threat, and not against something else?
by what do you think its the hillary thing? by the same poles that said for months that trump would disappear, blow out, fail, etc? by what facts and whom are you choosing to believe that you would not believe a few weeks ago?
this is very dense stuff…
so far every rino, every lefist, everyone is up in arms against trump… and you think that is a vast conspiracy to get him in place so that everyone will vote hillary… how so? everyone is up in arms because trump is not one of them, does not cooperate with them, and even if he tries not to he will expose them because he will stumble over all their decades of work
they fear him because he will just open his mouth and ruin 30 years of their efforts by exposing stuff
the only people putting forth the idea of dont vote trump he will lose to hillary is the same press that said he would lose, flame out, fail, blowhard, hair funny, etc.
if trump was reaully going to result in hillary, they would favor him and make it easier and purposfully help… it would give them the win they want then…
so why is theri behavior 180 degrees opposite of that thesis they put forth to you to manipulate you into abandoning the only republican that can actually win… Cruz wont win because without the masses of the people giving trump a landslide, hillary wins… and if cruz is not willing to tell hillary off as an EQUAL but protects her and wants to look good, he loses to her.
trump will bring up benghazi to win
trump will bring up ilegal servers to win
in fact, the harder the left fights, the more likely trump will pull trump cards and pound her with her own actions, just as he just pounded romney for jumping in as a rino shill for hillary/bernie
The Other Chuck Says:
February 25th, 2016 at 10:47 am
Beverly, I take people at their word and assume Trump is dead serious about both building the wall, which I support as does Rubio, Cruz, and Paul Ryan, and also deporting 12,000,000 plus illegals.
&&&&&&&
CHILL.
The self-deporations will happen — seemlessly.
There will be NO interruptions in our produce supply.
THAT’S how much slack is in the labor force.
&&&&&
The University of California at Davis has ALWAYS been at the forefront of mechanized agriculture.
It had a nearly perfected grape picking machine — forty-five years ago.
That program was cancelled by the Governor at the behest of Cesar Chavez… and his merry band of illegal farm workers.
!!!
Since that time, robotics has advanced remarkably.
The sole and only reason that we continue to employ semi-slave pickers is because of (D) & (R) politics.
Both factions see that their bread is buttered by permitting this practice.
The (R) hold a lock on the rural counties — as illegals can’t vote.
When they migrate to the big cities — which they always do — they provide a lock on Los Angeles — and the state legislature for (D).
That’s about all there is to it.
In the meantime, veteran Mexican immigrants find themselves priced entirely OUT of the labor market. For once they are legal, they are no longer economically employable.
It really is THAT simple.
&&&&&&&
In 1986 Ronald Reagan legalized millions of illegal alien invaders.
They soon — within the year — found themselves out of work — but qualified for Federal and California welfare.
Yes, virtually the ENTIRE wave ended up on welfare within seemingly no time.
Welfare paid them far more than they’d been earning picking crops.
So they went on welfare — as their old jobs were vectored to a new surge of illegals.
So we know how it will REALLY play out.
&&&&&&&&
WWI cut off the supply of immigrants from Europe.
American blue collar wages subsequently EXPLODED upwards. (1920s in particular.)
They shot up again from (1940 through 1970)
At which point the 1965 (Ted) Kennedy immigration act kicked in. It took a few years — during the Vietnam-NASA boom — for Mexicans to saturate the labor market.
Wage gains for all tradesmen from Texas to California STOPPED rising — and for the next fifty years decayed away in real terms… even the unionized IBEW was unable to stay apace with inflation.
&&&&
When you super saturate ANY market — the prices collapse.
Witness Saudi Arabia’s price war in crude oil.
A mere over supply of 1.5% has been enough to pull the world wide price down from $100 bbl to $30.
The drop would’ve been even more dramatic but for the huge amount of storage space built up across the planet.
&&&&
America CAN’T USE to good effect stoop labor.
We are GLUTTED with it.
Robots are coming — making this super saturation of ‘talent’ even more extreme.
Robots are ALREADY replacing long haul truck driving jobs.
The planet is full up — everywhere.
Immigration simply has to stop — entirely.
At Patterico this morning, an entry which reflects Neo’s opposition to a Trump Presidency [emphasis mine]:
The Link (scroll down to 7:28 am):
http://patterico.com/
Your 2012 prediction was wrong. Losing in 2012 tended to unify “the right” and led to an overwhelming victory in 2014.
The fecklessness of the GOP Congressional leadership and establishment class after the voters handed them both Houses of Congress revealed that they had been lying to their base, they never intended or expected to actually challenge Obama and the left as they had promised they would. THAT is what tore things up. Cantor losing his primary that year should have told them, but they ignored it because they always looked at their base just as the Democrats do: as a bunch of ignorant rubes, easily manipulated.
The result in 2015: Trump. I have to believe that Trump saw what was going on with the GOP ripe for a takeover, and took his opportunity. And while my personal preference is Cruz, I commend Trump for the way he has taken on political correctness and made it possible to talk about some things that we couldn’t talk about (like immigration, in particular) even 6 months ago, without being called racist and worse.
Also, for turning Bill Clinton into an embarrassment instead of an asset. Anyone who could do that will be a formidable campaigner, and those who think he is a sure loser in the general are deluded.
Unfortunately, when it came to beating beatable incumbent Barack Obama in 2012, Romney couldn’t even deal with Candy Crowley; couldn’t prosecute Benghazi; couldn’t competently handle the questions around his own taxes; could neither shun nor embrace his wealth; couldn’t comprehend that in 2012 maybe you should assume everything is recorded before writing off 47% of voters; couldn’t do one damn thing effectively to win even a single news cycle against a failed incumbent.
Oh, but look at Romney now – diving in the gutter and proving that Mr. Squeaky Clean is in fact quite capable of doing what it takes to win … against his own.
For America, Romney couldn’t do it, even as Team Obama accused him of murder.
To protect the Establishment Trough, though, suddenly he’s a Man willing to get his hands dirty.
You know who does not have this genetic defect? Donald J. Trump, and that is a very, very big part of his appeal.
brietbart…
a bit of a breitbart wakeup:
Politics, especially at the presidential level, is not about Marquis of Queensbury. It’s about proving your skill as a campaigner, your ability to keep the other guy on defense.
The fact that you might be offended by that reality does not change that reality.
Vote for Cruz in the primary.
Simple.
To address a post – which may well not have been directed at me – when I say that I am debating whether Hillary or Trump would be worse, I am not “pro Hillary.” I am anything but pro-anything to do with Democrats.
My issue is that as this goes along, Trump becomes less stable and less deserving of having his fingers on nuclear weapons and federal agencies. The guy openly threatens people and makes outrageous comments about violence while on the campaign trail! Seriously, what happens when other world leaders treat him like the big-mouthed, bratty bully that he is? What happens when segments of the US population don’t like or approve of him? If he even begins to turn into the childish despot that appears to be inside, trying desperately to get out, then what?
Hillary is a cold murderous corruptocrat of the worst order, but even with her Benghazis and private servers, and the far lefty-left compost pile she surrounds herself with, her potential for disaster is actually a bit less.
I simply don’t believe a word Trump says. He’s a pathological nutjob trying to get elected. I would trust the promises of a car salesman at a low-end car lot more than I trust him to actually believe in, much less follow through, on anything this lifetime Democrat and friend of the Clintons says when trying to get angry Republicans to vote for him.
Yes, I do believe there are some positives. He likely doesn’t hate the US as much as some lefty liberals do. He might make better Supreme Court choices, which would be especially nice if the GOP still owns congress. But can’t we get a sane responsible adult Republican in office?
Just remember – if he goes nuclear (figuratively or literally) – no one will remember that Trump is not even really a legitimate Republican. He’s spent his whole life as a Democrat backing leftist and big government causes. But if he gets elected as a Republican the blame for his actions will rest on us. He wants to represent us and I don’t trust him to not ensure that there’s not another GOP president for a generation.
The Congressional Republicans passed the Omnibus bill because they were terrified of being labeled the shutters-down of the government. To some extent I can sympathize – the MSM dined out on that last time for months. What I cannot excuse is their failure to take on the issue and CHARGE! They should have gone to the memorials that the feds were trying to close and held press conferences. They should have made the point that there was very little difference with the VA closed and open. And they could have shouted out about the fact that the “furloughed” government employees received their missed pay when the government re-opened. (I found out about that on page umpteen-ump of section ZZZ of the Wall Street Journal — the GOP should have been trumpeting that all over the country.)
I certainly agree the Eric and the others on this list who talk about activism. Our GOP leaders just don’t seem to get it, like Romney’s failure to close with and destroy Obama at the third debate. To borrow Abba Eban’s gibe at the Arabs, we never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
anyone ever take the time to see who cruz is beholden to?
in 2014/2016
#3 – Woodforest Financial Group $112,500 / $111,500
#4 – Goldman Sachs $69,350 / $69,350
#5 – Morgan Lewis LLP (law firm) $67,550 / $67,550
#7 – Sullivan & Cromwell (law firm) $58,900 / $60,113
#8 – Baker Botts LLP (law firm) $45,413 / $45,413
#9 – Jones Day (law firm) $44,500 / $44,500
lots of others… like
Wapiti Energy
Moncrief Oil International
Mason Capital Management
Credit Suisse Group
Mansefeldt Investment
Hunt Companies (real estate)
Trump
MD C Hold ings $10,800 (larg est donati on)
A ubu rn Man or Hol ing $8,100
Milwa ukee Rhe uma tology Center $5,400
Dor ya USA $5,400
Em erge ncy Care Dyn amics $5,400
the others on the top 20 list are:
Her itage Bag Co
HH Wi lliams Tru cking
Ralph Lauren
Mer idian Ca pital
US D ept of De fense
Berk shire Hat haway ($3,450)
Obj ect Syste ms Gro up
US Na vy
On e H our Ac
Tig er Glob al Man agement
without the spaces it would not post…
mhj:
I was speaking of presidential politics only. The reaction was to Romney’s loss.
It’s much easier to “unify” the right in more local races. The calculus is very very different, as are the issues and the demographics of each state. Presidential races have a whole different dynamic, and a very different strategy, and need to “unify” the party over a much greater area.
Plus, the 2014 victories were a sort of last-ditch effort of a right that was already exhausted and angry at the GOP. I didn’t make up that prediction based on reading a crystal ball—I based it on the rage I was already seeing people exhibit during the Romney campaign. The 2014 election was people saying, “This is your very last chance, GOP.”
I also think their expectations for what the GOP could do or would do were always unrealistic. But that’s another issue.
This is the fourth straight state where the GOP has smashed its previous turnout records. Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Carson are galvanizing the Republican base just as Obama brought out record numbers of Democrats in 2008. Another puzzling thing. Trump appears to have won the (Republican) Hispanic vote. Is it possible many Hispanic and Latino-American voters are worried about open borders too?
Assuming they aren’t the dead voting Democrat, as they usually do, or aren’t shipped in from Democrat urban fiefdoms in those primary elections.
Kyndyll G put up some good points.
Some of it in line with Parker’s “Trojan Horse” theory.
Blert @11:45am:
You claim to know a lot about grape picking and agriculture in California. I’ve been a part of it on the periphery for the last 40 years. The table grape industry around Delano and Bakersfield is indeed mechanizing. It entails forcing vines over high trellises so that grape bunches hang below where the machines can snip them off onto conveyor belts that deposit them into lugs or bins. It only works with certain varieties and it still requires manual labor. It is in its infancy.
As far as I know there is nothing available to replace the one peg ladders and cranes, and the people who climb them to pick cherries, nectarines, plums, apricots, apples, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, pluots, and peaches. Nor is there mechanization available to replace the pruners of said trees, nor the viticulturists who attend the grape vines taking cuttings and making grafts. There are no robots to drive the tractors, spray for insects and disease, mix the fertilizer, and hoe the weeds. There is no robot to oversee the watering. There are no robots running the fork lifts out in the field or in the cold storage facilities. No robots drive the loaders or trucks, or the water trucks that keep the dust down. There are no robots who grade and sort the fruit, who make special packs for east coast high end markets. There are no robots to wrap the fancy packs in tissue or lay the grapes carefully in the styrofoam insulated lugs, close the lids and seal them while attaching a barcoded label with the variety name, harvest date, field crew, and individual packer number. There is no robot available to taste the fruit to see if its sugar content is right, or look for rot and disease.
Other than that, we can get along fine.