On Jews disliking evangelicals
In a previous thread, commenter “Ann” offered a link to an article written in 2008 by James Q. Wilson entitled, “Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?”
From the article:
Evangelical Christians have a high opinion not just of the Jewish state but of Jews as people. That Jewish voters are overwhelmingly liberal doesn’t seem to bother evangelicals, despite their own conservative politics. Yet Jews don’t return the favor: in one Pew survey, 42 percent of Jewish respondents expressed hostility to evangelicals and fundamentalists. As two scholars from Baruch College have shown, a much smaller fraction””about 16 percent””of the American public has similarly antagonistic feelings toward Christian fundamentalists.
Wilson goes on to write about a lot of things, although most of them have nothing to do with why Jews don’t like evangelicals. His main answer to that question, the one posed in the title, is “because Jews tend to be liberals.” True, as far as it goes. But it doesn’t go very far.
Very unfortunately (and somewhat surprisingly to me), Wilson does not link the survey on which his entire premise about Jews not liking evangelicals seems to rest, nor does he give out enough information that a person could locate it (“one Pew survey” doesn’t quite pin it down, and one survey is not really much to base an entire theory on even if he did give the link). When I Googled the topic, I couldn’t find many surveys about it at all, although I did locate this one, which at least seems to be related although not precisely the same. My guess is that it’s a similar Pew survey, done in a year that’s different but fairly close in time (the one I found was done in 2014, so it’s more recent than Wilson’s article).
So I read the Pew report carefully, and it seems to me it’s pretty much “garbage in, garbage out” regarding the Jews and their opinions. The problems with it are as follows: it doesn’t define “Jews,” nor does it break them down into observant and non-observant, much less which type of observance they follow (there are ordinarily huge differences). Since many Jews in the US are nonobservant (although not necessarily atheists, which is a separate category in the survey), and even most observant Jews are reform Jews, people could describe themselves as Jewish while being basically secular and liberal. Unless the pollsters made a special effort to get Orthodox Jews in their survey (and since there is no breakdown, one can assume they didn’t pay attention to that aspect), that particular group is probably significantly underrepresented.
But perhaps more problematic is the fact that although the entire survey consists of a little over three thousand people, there are only 100 Jews. That’s not out of line with the percentage of Jews in the population—in fact, it’s slightly more, relatively speaking. But it’s by far the smallest religious group in the survey, and a small number in the sense of making it difficult to draw valid conclusions based on it. The results for such a small group are particularly prone to error, and if you look at the following chart you’ll see something interesting about the margin of error for the Jewish response:
Plus or minus 12.6 percentage points seems pretty unacceptable for a poll. For what it’s worth (which isn’t much), the results were that Jews rated evangelicals on average as 34 on a “feeling thermometer” that goes up to 100, very similar to the score for how they rate Muslims. Jews rated evangelicals very similarly to how agnostics rated evangelicals (giving me a hint that perhaps a lot of the Jews in the survey are really agnostics), and somewhat higher than atheists did.
As a hypothetical, though, let’s just imagine that the results are accurate and that Jews don’t especially like evangelicals. I’m actually not at all sure most Jews even know what evangelicals believe in or stand for. The word sounds a great deal like “evangelist,” (same root), which traditionally has meant “a person who seeks to convert others to the Christian faith, especially by public preaching.”
With the Jews’ lengthy history of being the objects of forced or pressured or coerced conversion attempts, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to be somewhat wary of Christians you thought might be members of a group trying really hard to convert you. Unless a person is conversant with all the different Christian sects, and recent developments in Christianity—which believe me, most Jews and most non-Christians in general are not—it could sound as though “evangelicals” would be people who fit that proselytizing description. This in turn could be a fairly large part of the answer to Wilson’s question of “why” the dislike.
I strongly doubt that most Jews even know that evangelicals are their friends, or what they believe, or that evangelicals support Israel and respect Jews and the Jewish religion. Evangelicals may think those things are well-known facts, but I would wager they’re not at all well-known among Jews, secular or otherwise.
The religious categories the survey subjects were asked to rate did not include any Protestant denominations except evangelicals, which I find to be a curious thing. Most people—even Jews—have a better idea of what Catholicism is and a long history with it, and even some of the larger Protestant denominations (although I think that’s a lot less clear than Catholicism), but evangelicals are more of a mystery. By the way, the Wiki entry for “evangelicalism” mentions that adherants “believe in the centrality of the conversion or ‘born again’ experience in receiving salvation, believe in the authority of the Bible as God’s revelation to humanity and have a strong commitment to evangelism or sharing the Christian message.” That latter part—the commitment to sharing the Christian message—could be the source of some Jews’ fear that evangelicals are people intent on converting the Jews. Although that’s not a correct perception about evangelicals for the most part, it may be an understandable one in the absence of personal knowledge to the contrary.
One last thing—the Pew survey I found asked respondents to rate religions not on a measure of liking or disliking per se, but on a “feeling thermometer” with a cold/warm scale on which 0 was “coldest/most negative” and 100 was “warmest/most positive.” Some unknown number of respondents may have interpreted that in such a way that lower scores meant that the respondent is cold towards the group because he/she doesn’t know much about the it; more of an absence of feeling than an active dislike.
Evangelical as another term for Orthodox?
This:
J Street Jan Schakowsky attacks former rival Joel Pollak for being ‘Orthodox’ Jew
The jokes write themselves ….
Good article. I also believe that like so many terms today, evangelical is a lazy distortion. It certainly seems to carry the connotation of “in your face” proselytizing.
Interestingly, I also think that Catholicism and Protestantism are still pretty far apart, with really only one point of intersection between Catholics and most Protestant religions; i.e. Christ. True we have learned, through sometimes bloody experience, to live together, and even respect each others’ belief system; but, any analysis that lumps the two into one category is flawed at the outset. (I am speaking of the committed, and not the casual or lapsed)
It is a mystery to me why so many Jews self-define as Liberals. Could part of it relate to the fact that a high percentage spend many years in our education system; and particularly the elite schools? Intuitively, there does seem to be correlation between the status of the University and the number of Liberals it turns out.
Oldflyer: the question of why so many American Jews are politically liberal is an old one. (As the old joke goes, American Jews are the ones who earn like Episcopalians but vote like Puerto Ricans.)
Judaism is far more than just a religion, and pinning down what “Jewish” means can be difficult, and at times depends a lot on context. For this, I would argue that Jewish culture, even for non-observant Jews, places a heavy emphasis on education for its own sake, and on a mystical concept called tikkun olam — “fixing the world”. To a great many Jews, this translates to supporting social justice in its various forms… which, in America, means liberal politics.
For better or for worse, American Jews have been over-represented in social causes for a long, long time. Jews were prominent in the fight to abolish slavery, and for women’s suffrage, and for unionization and workers’ rights, and on and on and on.
I touched on these issues in my post The Phobia(s) that May Destroy America. First paragraph:
I am continually amazed by the level of fear, contempt, and anger that many educated/urban/upper-middle-class people demonstrate toward Christians and rural people (especially southerners.) This complex of negative emotions often greatly exceeds anything that these same people feel toward radical Islamists or dangerous rogue-state governments. I’m not a Christian myself, or really a religious person at all, but I’d think that one would be a lot more worried about people who want to cut your head off, blow you up, or at a bare minimum shut down your freedom of speech than about people who want to talk to you about Jesus (or Nascar!)
whole thing:
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/32937.html
I suspect that geography also has something to do with this. How many Jews grew up in small towns where they came into contact with evangelicals or other protestant denominations? If you don’t have personal experience with real people and learn that they don’t really fit into the boxes described for them, then you are likely to follow whatever the Harvard profs and the NYT say about them.
The street where I grew up had people of various churches and my best friend (till her family moved away in about 4th grade) was from a very religious fundamentalist family. My mom always said, “I don’t care what church she goes to. She is a nice girl.” That’s how things happen in towns where people have to deal with everyone.
As a person that has a lot of interaction with Jews, of every definition, I would say the principle issue is education, as already mentioned. Even among those leaning toward conservative values, education is seen as the panacea for all mankind’s woes. And Oldflyer rightly defines the reality in the elite universities. Evangelical Christians are by and large perceived as “bumpkins”, no matter their attainment. (Reagan & the younger Bush–clearly more religious than his father–are good examples.) Additionally I would add that what passes for “history” has distorted the facts regarding Christianity and the Jew. Great emphasis has been placed on some historically ignominious truths and virtually none on truths that would foster at the very least proof of no reason to fear a practicing (serious) Christian.
Excellent comments all and clearly, Jewish ethnic identity has many factors. One factor that I would add as to why Jews are liberal is ‘camouflage’. Orthodox Jews stand out, whereas secular Jews do not. Over time, many secular Jews have become Jewish in name only.
I too think it unlikely that most Jews have any idea as to the actual beliefs of evangelicals but even if they educated themselves, I doubt their attitudes would change much at all. Evangelicals are conservative and given the left’s indoctrination in the schools and mass media, in the minds of Jewish liberals, ‘conservative’ at best equates to reactionary, thus the dislike.
Which is truly ironic because if either Islam or the Marxist left ever gain real dominance in the world, secular Jews will be targeted.
Islam condemns the secular Jew for their crime of ‘blood ancestry’. As far as Islam is concerned, the only way that a Jew can remove that ‘stain’ is a sincere conversion to Islam. Of course, then they will have sold their soul… “to gain the world”.
Whereas Marxism condemns secular Jews for their wealth and societal status. Liberal secular Jews are the original bourgeoisie class.
The irony is Shakespearean, their only hope for survival rests with those they despise.
Part of the problem is that most Jews likely think “fundamentalist” when they hear the word “evangelical”, and there has always been a degree of anti-Semitism among some fundamentalist Christian groups.
I think there’s also a fear at a visceral level that’s not open to reason. I’ll never forget, for instance, the way Marty Peretz, when he was still in charge, and in favor, at the New Republic, wrote about Sarah Palin when McCain picked her for VP. He was so over the top in his denunciation of her that even commenters on his blog there told him so. And much, if not most, of his reaction was due to her religious associations.
There’s a blog I read: http://accordingtohoyt.com/
Just read the 3 lines of the header, with emphasis on THE THIRD LINE.
Fundamentalists is the term US Libtard Jews use …
Their position makes no sense in our times but then… TWICE!
Looking to even it out somewhat I found some Fundamentalist Jews who don’t like Christians. Had to go all the way to Israel but then, Hey!, globalization.
Also I found some US Libtard Jews ready to die for a cause.
You’re welcome!
TWICE!
What Geoffrey Britain said …
Lately, I have gotten touch (through Facebook) with a Jewish girl I was best-friends-forever with in late elementary-early-high-school with. Her family was actually pretty secular in some ways – they ate bacon! – but they were pretty Zionist, when it came to devotion to Israel. I don’t want to really explore with her where her political head has gone since the early 1970s … but I suspect from the tinge of some of her links and posts that she is one of those secular-oriented Jews who would hate and loathe evangelical Christians, Tea Partier types and conservative Constitutionalists generally.
Pity, that. She had a relative (an aunt or great-aunt, I think) who left the Soviet Union in and around WWII barefoot … bloody footprints in the snow and all that.
What is wrong with being Fundamental?
Nothing.
It has become another dirty word as defined by the Leftist media. “Islamic Fundamentalists” are the beheaders.
Christian Fundamentalists are the right-wing pinheads who cling, and who like Cruz.
Evangelicals is a word much bandied about by the Leftist Kommentariat, in negative contexts but never defined. It’s simply a negative tag that has something to do with Christianity, which the Left abhors more than Islam.
I do not dislike evangelicals. Unless it’s a class principle or consensus, there is weak evidence gathered through inference.
“For better or for worse, American Jews have been over-represented in social causes for a long, long time. Jews were prominent in the fight to abolish slavery, and for women’s suffrage, and for unionization and workers’ rights, and on and on and on.”
And yet during the Holocaust, they were DEAFENINGLY SILENT. No wonder that their grandchildren are BDSers et al.
Note the growing segment of American Jewry are the survivors and refugees of Hitler and Stalin.
Not all likes are reciprocal, or required to be. Say, the relationships between; parent and child; police and civilian (or military either, always, really); or many others. I don’t need the average, or typical, or stereotypical Jew to like me. Actually, I don’t believe they, often, yet have the capacity. They are devoted not to the faith of their birth, not now, not most of them. The temple was destroyed, and a New one built. They do not attend to the new one yet, but it was through them that the first was built, and there will be room in the new one for them. No, their faith, after their fall, is in progressivism. It is a failure of faith that lead many of them to that. It is actually suicidal, given that the requirement for progressive politics is to lose all identity, something even secular Jews refuse to do.
Eventually, the ones that can be spared, will see that the middle road simply doesn’t exist, and will choose the only road left to them. The others will choose their destruction. I would suggest the seculars have already chosen suicide. They just don’t allow themselves to see it yet. Not sure if many of them are salvageable, but that’s not my job.
I don’t need, or expect, them to be friendly. I have answered why. But the door is open. Unlike the left, of which most of them belong, I will not try to push or pull them my way. That’s not how my side works. Volunteers only. Those of islam, on the other hand, probably Arabs as a whole, have no such inclusion. Not as they are. Even Jews know this, if their current status almost requires them to be allied, on the “secular” fronts.
I had a Nation reading former communist lib atheist Jewish coworker and friend named Bob who used to listen to televangelists for entertainment.
Another evangelical friend tried to challenge him to a spiritual debate.
7 sons of Sceva! Bob knew the N.T.
Years later I was having dinner with a missionary friend who told me that in college he nannied for a liberal jewish couple for room and board.
They interviewed him hard!
After that, on FB, my friend got a comment from Bob!
Bob and his wife were the couple that gave him the nanny post.
avi Says:
March 24th, 2015 at 8:15 pm
And yet during the Holocaust, they were DEAFENINGLY SILENT. No wonder that their grandchildren are BDSers et al….
Err… not exactly silent. They were aggressively impairing attempts at relief efforts.
Look up Stephen Samuel Wise, then head Rabbi.
Look up H. Kook aka Peter Bergson …
Choice Stephen Wise quote:
“In the spring of 1941 Rabbi Wise had decided to impose a complete embargo on all aid sent to Jews in occupied countries, in compliance with the U.S. government’s economic boycott of the Axis powers (whereby every food package was seen as direct or indirect assistance to the enemy)… Strict orders were given to World Jewish Congress representatives in Europe to halt forthwith any shipment of packages to the ghettos, despite the fact that these packages did usually reach their destination, the Jewish Self-Help Association in Warsaw. ‘All these operations with and through Poland must cease at once,’ Wise cabled to Congress delegates in London and Geneva, ‘and at once in English means AT ONCE, not in the future.'”
H. Kook aka Peter Bergson was an amazing man.
Incredible what they did to him.
Kook was a great man as were the other Bergson Boys. but they and the Rabbis who marched on DC were condemned by the Jewish establishment too intent on dancing the Hora to FDRyms.
and when the rabbis marched on Washington , Wise told FDR to get out of town.
Doom Says:
March 24th, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Agree.
Here, some US Libtards Jews try to make good Jews look bad but fail miserably.
Fail because … TWICE!
It’s not just evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. In an NRO piece today Dennis Prager says that the liberal American Jews are embarrassed and ashamed of the Jews in Israel because they keep voting conservative: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415861/americas-left-wing-jews-are-ashamed-israels-jews-dennis-prager
“Yet Jews don’t return the favor: in one Pew survey, 42 percent of Jewish respondents expressed hostility to evangelicals and fundamentalists.”
Those statistics sound about right to me, especially Jews in Hollywood and academia. Of course, this problem is not uniquely Jewish. There are also plenty of Gentiles doing all the damage they can to our culture.
This country was founded by Evangelical Christians. Today’s Evangelical Christians are Americans who still adhere to traditional American values. Because so many leaders in media and academia are hostile to conservative Christians and to traditional values they have done great damage to the culture. I’m especially thankful for Jews like Neo who are able and willing to buck that trend and work to repair the damage.
avi:
American Jews were not deafeningly silent; they were quite active.
neo-neo,
I had thought avi was correct too. Could it be that the media has been at this game since then? It almost seems incredulous, but then… it is the same people who run the media, only the names have changed presumably to protect the guilty? Yeah, strike that last part, not because it is wrong though. :p
Doom:
I think the MSM used to be a bit better. But not good. And with some very egregious distortions and lies. And I think it goes back much much further in time.
General Sherman said:
Wonderful coincidence – today there’s a terrific article by David Gelernter in First Things about Jewish/Christian relations:
http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2015/03/why-should-a-jew-care-whether-christianity-lives-or-dies
Marvelous insights for both camps. (as one would expect from Gelernter.)
I’m a Protestant, and a Southerner. Episcopalian, to be precise. Because I am well-spoken and from an upper-middle-class background, some of the prejudice against Southern Protestants is … deflected. But not all of it. Sometimes I get the “Oh, but YOU’RE different!” reaction. (Sound familiar?)
My experience with Yankee Jews: NYC variety, almost exclusively, is that they think all Christians are Catholics. That we all were in on the Inquisition (er, NO, my ancestors suffered in that, too, as alleged heretics); etc., etc. They know almost nothing about Protestants. In fact, most of the NYC Catholics I’ve met over the years are amazingly ignorant of Protestantism, in any of its major forms.
The other thing I run into is the interesting idea that “fundamentalists” (those weird aliens with V-shaped irises) are just honin’ for the End Times, and that that’s why they just luuurrrve the Children of Israel. Some apocalyptic thing. Well, I’ve known a boatload of evangelical Christians, and not one has ever expressed this view to me, even on our home turf. But it has an astonishing persistence.
And a lot of it is just old-fashioned snobbery. Molly Ivins actually wrote a real funny (and tart) article about it all in the New York Times many years ago, called “Yankee Bigots.” The aforementioned Yankees read this over their morning espresso and chuckled indulgently. That Molly! she’s hilarious.
I expect that part of it is _why_ evangelicals like Jews. Evangelicals like Jews because they are God’s Chosen People.
So if you’re a liberal, atheist, and embarrassed at your people’s cultural traditions: Imagine having a bunch of super-religious conservative groupies hanging around all the time.
By “they think all Christians are Catholics,” I mean non-Christians up Nawth have only the wooliest ideas of what these strange creatures, Protestants, might be; they just assume we believe all the same stuff that the Catholics do. And honestly, usually aren’t at all interested in hearing about the differences (which are, on some points, profound).
The same thing is true of the New York Catholics I’ve met. Most have only the vaguest ideas of what Protestantism is.
I went with an old friend to the Central Synagogue in NY; I was curious about the service, and she was glad to take me. I was struck most of all by how MUCH we have in common. Phrase after phrase, idea after idea (the service was mostly in English) was the same as we are taught in Sunday school. I knew of course that Christianity is directly descended from Judaism — Jesus, after all, said he came to fulfill the law of Moses, not overturn it — but I’d never realized it on such an emotional level. I expected it to be more different, somehow. It was a moving experience.
One last thing: as Christians, we see our faith, and Jesus’s ministry, as the most precious things anyone could ever have. So if a Christian approaches you to talk about this, to try to pass it on to you, it is hardly an act of hostility. It stems from loving Christ, NOT from hating non-Christians. Look at it this way, to see it from our point of view: If we are right, then we are morally obligated to “spread the Word.” The hearer is, like everyone, completely free to say Yes or No, and most of us know that.
That last point is the one I wish I could convince everyone of. Because it’s true. If you believed you had the key to eternal life, wouldn’t you want to share it with those you love?
In the meantime, and in these days when I fear all of us, Jews and Christians alike, will be facing a dreadful conflict with Islam, I hope we can remember what we have in common, rather than fight over what we hold apart. Hugs, and over and out.
So if you’re a liberal, atheist, and embarrassed at your people’s cultural traditions: Imagine having a bunch of super-religious conservative groupies hanging around all the time.
That’s it in a nutshell!!! I’ve actually seen that in real life, and it’s hilarious.
Okay, I just found it: Churchill’s remarkable article on Zionism versus Bolshevism. The man saw far and deep.
A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People
By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.
SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world. . . .
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html
Don’t forget the extent to which secular humanists have othered all religions (or at least, Western religions). You don’t have to look hard to see anti-religious bigotry in the atheist crowd.
For non-observant Jews, this attitude suits them just fine. They get to laugh at the rubes, too.
Most American Jews today are Ashkenazi, that is, from Europe, and most of their ancestors came from Europe to get away from what was explicitly Christian anti-Semitism – the frequently Church-inspired and Church-led pogroms which occurred in Russia and Eastern Europe and not that long ago — there were pogroms in Poland in 1946! So they still have in their bones anti-Christian feelings, even if there’s nothing Jewish about them except liking bagels and lox.
Sephardic Jews, on the other hand — originally settling in Spain but since 1492 spread mostly through Muslim lands — don’t have the same attitudes at all. They are suspicious of Muslims, not Christians, having been the subject of Muslim pogroms, harassment, dimmi status, etc., for centuries (which is why, in Israel, they generally vote to the Right.) (Almost all of them are in Israel now, because they were expelled from the countries where they had lived for centuries by the members of The Religion of Peace (TM) in or shortly after 1948, when the State of Israel was founded.
And VL and Beverly, non-observant Jews feel the same way about Orthodox Jews, particularly ultra-Orthodox Jews, as they do about evangelical Christian
There undoubtedly are some “Christian groupies” who view Jews as special people especially in the Messianic Christian congregations. The message of Christianity is a message of God’s love for everyone including Jews. Many Christians especially love Jews because they know how much the Jewish people have been hurt by the holocaust which began in Germany and has continued in the Middle East. They have adjusted their theology to include even those Jews who have rejected Christianity and dislike them.
My own understanding is that the concept of God’s “chosen people” is a valid one in which a tribe of people have commit themselves to God’s service and have become a nation of priests. In return God has blessed the Jewish people and has equipped them with the ability to lead. Jesus made it clear that the role of a leader is to be a servant to everyone. The fact that many Jews have rejected their covenant with God and use their abilities to damage the culture rather than to build it up does not invalidate their covenant obligations to God.
But what exactly is the message?
Is it, “We love you and respect you and your religion and the religion of your ancestors, period.”? With, perhaps, “…and acknowledge and value the connection between our two faiths.”?
Is it, “We love you and respect you and your religion, etc., etc.; but for the sake of your soul (and the good of the wider world), we would like to point out, and persuade you, in all humility and love, that you should acknowledge the TRUTH. Yes, the TRUTH about God’s Son. And here’s why you should acknowledge the TRUTH: Because YOUR religion has, alas, been superceded. Clearly. So we’re doing this for your sake and because we love you and because of God’s love for you, etc., etc.”
Of course, there’s always the more direct “Convert or die!” methodology which cuts to the chase rather quickly; but that’s been relegated, for the most part, these days at least, to the Religion of Peace (TM).
Though a more subtle variant would be: “Convert or die!”—spiritually speaking—followed by an earnest, “And help us to help you make the correct choice; help us to enable you to accept the TRUTH”, etc., etc. “Or face the consequences of you choice. Still, whatever you choose, we will pray for you and your soul.”
So, which is it?
(And what would it feel like if the shoe were on the other foot?)
Note: Other possibilities, of course, exist.
“And what would it feel like if the shoe were on the other foot?”
We already know. That has happened many times during history.
Judith @12:51 – – ty for the cite to Gelerntner. What a beautiful, lovely article he has written! And as you say, an amazingly welcome companion to neo’s post (and this thread).
Beverly @1:36 – – fascinating article you cite by WC, where he calls for the establishment of a Jewish state (1920). The numerous distinctions he makes are interesting.
I am from the deep South, the Bible belt, and have never heard anyone even mention Jews in a harsh context. In fact, my city found that many Jews had left and have been trying to find ways of getting them back. This is not for “diversity”, it is to increase the economic impact that a Jewish community seems to bring. I am Methodist, so really don’t care what anyone believes. But I have made some observations in my life. First, Jews hate each other and given the opportunity will fight among themselves even to the detriment of there well being with strong outside forces also trying to eliminate them. Second, Jews are hated in the North, why, I don’t know. I sat with a really nice lady that was well to do and from Conn. She was trying to say nice things about the South and I was patiently listening to the obvious crap and her feeling as to how we were much maligned when she suddenly said “you know, you can’t tell who is Jewish and who is not in the South”. The jaws of my wife and myself both dropped. We never even think of Jews as anything other than just another religion and could not understand a statement to the effect that they were anything other than us. Third, it seems that Jews will chose that side in politics that is not in their best interest. Witness the devotion to Obama and the fact that many supported Hitler. I know many survivors of the death camps and know that they could not have been run without Jewish help, something I can not understand.
BTW and sort of OT: of her three major books by B. Tuchman the least cited seems to be The Bible and The Sword, an intriguing, highly readable history of Britain (or is it England?) and the Jews. It was very surprising and entertaining history, a lot of history – – don’t imagine you can anticipate what it is.
It touches on a lot of the questions frequently discussed (for instance in this thread) but from a rare perspective.
One of the things you can say for Jesus. As Churchill implicitly says in the article cited by Beverly, Jesus has certainly (helped?) kept Jews and Judaism firmly and perpetually in the consciousness of mankind.
Now there is a zen proposition.
http://www.amazon.com/Deafening-Silence-American-Leaders-Holocaust/dp/0933503636
Neo , To say that most American Jews were active is absurd.
The ortho rabbis who marched and the Bergson Boys were active. People like Hillel kook and Benzion Netanyahu (yes him) were foreigners and many if not most of the rabbis likely didn’t have citizenship yet. Those groups were condemned by the then Jewish leadership and received more support from Gentiles like Pelosis father and Will Rogers jr. Their efforts embarrassed FDRyms to belatedly do something when most were already dead,
To give the Jewish community at large any credit is to give them credit for chabads Chanukah publitvMenorah lighting or how the JDL and students for Soviet Jewry embarrassed the federation types into arriving (long belatedly) kicking and screaming for the struggle to save Soviet Jewry.
Are you aware that the Jewish leadership in the US tried to get Hillel Kook deported?
Related:
http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Response-American-Holocaust-1938-1944/dp/0394755987/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1427298605&sr=8-3&keywords=lookstein
My understanding re the *evangelical love for the Jews* is that it is rooted in the Word of God.
The passage in the Bible where God describes His Blessings & exalting he will pour upon the Jewish nation if they follow what God demands of them. This passage also includes a Promise to the Gentile Nations, If we Bless the Jews, God will
in turn Bless us. (the first quid pro quo, if you will) So it is simple really to understand that a close reading of the Bible contains this explicit promise. BTW Things have not always been this Rosie in the South with the Jews. Part of the mission of the KKK was to advance White Protestantism, their charter was anti black, anti immigrant, anti Catholic & anti Jew.
been my take that left leaning Jews confirmation bias (being libs who don’t want to like them anyway) evangelicals into being the people that discriminated against them in the past (or are the children of people who were discriminated against). When really those were east coast upper middle class wasp types…. They don’t really want to know the details*… because this works for them…
* “I doubt that most Jews even know that evangelicals are their friends, or what they believe, or that evangelicals support Israel and respect Jews and the Jewish religion.”
This post and these comments seem to cover all the aspects of the question re Jews and Evangelicals. So much information condensed into such a small space!
BTW we should always keep in mind that most people everywhere don’t know much about anything. And there is so much to know. Who can keep up? I spend way too much time on the internet reading comments on Neoneocon, Ace of Spades, Instapundit, Maggie’s Farm, Michelle Obama’s Mirror, Sultan Knish, Just One Minute, etc. etc. I’ve certainly learned a lot.
But really, how much can really know about other people outside their own tiny circle?!
Yesterday my liberal lunch friend forgot that I had turned conservative, and she spit out the word “Republican” the same way others might have said “Wop” or whatever. She introduced me to another friend, and they started talking about something they had recently heard on NPR. I think of them as “NPR ladies.” That’s where a lot of so-called “knowledge” comes from, along with the vicious ideas printed in the NYTimes.
Non observant Jews dislike xtians because of 2000 years of antisemitism and hatred of all things religious
Religious Jews are wary of missionaries , but also realize that evangelicals are allies
The US Jewish establishment actions/inactions during the WWII proceedings were horrid.
Somehow they got away with it.
An excruciating book: Emissary of the Doomed: Bargaining for Lives in the Holocaust
Hungary this time. Similar idiocy.
Zooming to 2015, the North American Jews are foremost activists in trying to get us disarmed.
They play a very twisted game like this forked tongue creature.
TWICE!
For possibly the same reason that hasidim dont care much for the other jewish groups…
Beverly Says:
March 25th, 2015 at 1:36 am
Okay, I just found it: Churchill’s remarkable article on Zionism versus Bolshevism. The man saw far and deep.
Beverly, the title of Churchill’s piece is:
Zionism versus Bolshevism.
Not: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People, that’s the subtitle.
He makes it very clear who the Bolshevik apparatus was. Usually if you bring up this WS historical recap you get shouted down.
The mucking about led to the Holodomor. !4 million people snuffed out. Not to mention the … gulags.
I watch the current events, observe the assertive repetition of these past idiocies and … I fret.
Not good for the goys …
*WS —> Winston Churchill recap
on an aside that may not be covered here…
‘Benevolent sexism’: Men who open doors for women can be as sexist as those who are rude to them, study finds
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/11/benevolent-sexism-men-who-open-doors-for-women-can-be-as-sexist-as-those-who-are-rude-to-them-study-finds/
Men Smiling at Women is Sexist, Study Concludes
http://thepunditpress.com/2015/03/25/smiling-at-women-is-sexist-study-concludes/
the last sentence in the article:
The article written about the study does not suggest a way not to be sexist towards women if you are a man
too funny..
as MGTOW points out (and other mens groups), leave them alone, really alone, far away alone… but that wont make them happier either… miserable sods who can never be made happy!!!!!!!!!!!
Artfldgr Says:
March 25th, 2015 at 1:27
‘Benevolent sexism’: Men who open doors for women can be as sexist as those who are rude to them, study finds…
Not to mention not so benevolent: Manspreading.
Too good for too long!
g6loq, read what Yakovlev said about it…
(hint: its nonsense)
g6loq:
Your generalizations on Jews are incorrect sweeping characterizations. Yes, certainly many Jews (mostly ethnic/Jews in name only, secular Jews who have no connection to Judaism) are often liberals, and liberals support what liberals support.
But inaction on the Jews in WWII was mainly the result of governments refusing to help, a fact that is well-documented. Even that book you mentioned, according to its Amazon summary, does not indicate what you are saying it indicates.
Jews in this country voted for Obama in 2012 at lower levels compared to their support for him in 2008, and their support for the Democratic Party in recent years. Orthodox Jews (a growing bloc, and the most religious group) did not vote for Obama. In fact, they didn’t vote for him in numbers that are pretty astounding–in some parts of NY, Orthodox Jews went 97% for Romney.
g6loq, its hysterical on the train as the women are the least considerate vs the men… men get up for children, they get up for older men, thye get up for pregnant women, etc… but women? they will shove a pregnant woman out of the way to get a seat… i have photos at home of the whole row of seats being taken up by women doing messaging as a 9 month pregnant woman with child in toe has to stand..
stay FAR away from them..
which is why so many are marrying foreigners or not marrying at all… of course, the women dont believe it. they dont want to believe that they are supporting dumb arses that way!!!!!!
but then again… if they can be played to the point of exterminating their own families for an idea that puts them in a bad place, leaving them in the crapper… maybe they get what they deserve…
right now the swedes are finding out that a feminsit goverment is not such a good idea as its already cost them several billion dollars in deals with the UAE… and muslim countries… and it shows how the same kind of mutually exclusive kind of things women think are crucial but impossible, and cant see its impossible.
but now a man can be fired no matter what he does!!!
and the fems yell about the guys they dont want dating and marrying asian women – saying its yellow fever…
i have been attacked with my wife several times..
some for being a hated white man like a jew in germany circa 1940… and some for being with my indonesian wife… not to mention that the system penalizes her through me by hurting me…
but i guess its irrelevent..
now whats hip is the antisemitism i tried to start a conversation on over a year ago…
i am always early on things…
so ladies, if a frowning man slams the door in your face, he is just doing what your leaders want…
Given the opportunity to grasp social superiority, most people will do just that and not let go.
Why Do Jews Vote for Their Enemies?
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2010/10/why_do_jews_vote_for_their_ene.html
Hitler Endorsed by 9 to 1 in Poll on his Dictatorship, but Opposition Is Doubled
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0819.html
Interesting also are the following results: the hospital of the Jewish community in one district cast 168 “Yes” votes, 92 “Noes,” and 46 ballots were invalid. The Jewish Home for Aged People in another district cast 94 “Yes” votes, four “Noes” and three invalid ballots.
-=-=-=-=-
In all Bavaria Chancellor Hitler received the largest vote in his favor in the concentration camp at Dachau where 1,554 persons voted “Yes” and only eight “No” and there were only ten spoiled ballots
-=-=-=-=-
As far as observers could ascertain, the election everywhere was conducted with perfect propriety, and secrecy of the ballot was safe-guarded. The ballots were marked in regular election booths and placed in envelopes and these were put in the ballot boxes. After the voting had ended the ballot box was emptied on a large table and the vote was counted publicly in the regular manner. Appraising of individual votes seemed impossible.
-=-=-=-=-=-
and like Shabbaz..
Throughout the day Storm Troopers stood before each polling place with banners calling on the voters to vote “Yes.” Otherwise voters remained unmolested. Inside the polling places uniforms and even party emblems had been forbidden, but the execution of this order was lax. In some apparently doubtful districts brown uniforms dominated the scene as a warning to would-be opponents
-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.answers.com/Q/Did_some_Jews_vote_for_Hitler
Most Germans chose sides, with many of the Jewish WW1 veterans siding with the Nationalists who eventually morphed into the National Socialists
Great War Veterans were a proud group of patriots, comprised of veterans from all walks of German life. During this time, the Freikorps arose and was like wise comprised of many WW1 vets, including many Jews. The Friekorps were mostly Germans who identified themselves as patriotic nationalists, and were comprised of Germans representing all religions : Lutherans from Prussia, Roman Catholics from Bavaria and Jews from the various states in the Weimar Republic. Many members of the Freikorps (but not all) went on to side with the Workers Party which eventually gave rise to the National Socialists (it must be understood that the FreiKorps and Ehrhardt did not support Hitler and Ludendorf during the “Beer Hall Putsch” (Hitler-Ludendorff-Putsch) and the subsequent events which transpired at the Mareinplatz). Although the early National Socialists preached moderate anti-semitism (something that Jews had experienced for centuries in Europe), many patriotic Jews threw in their support to the “cause”, believing the anti-semitic rhetoric was nothing more than what they had experienced in the past, and believed this rhetoric to be innocuous. The German Jewish Veterans Association worked to ease some of this anti-semitism through campaigns to convince the German public they identified themselves as culturally German, not culturally Jewish.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
and history repeats as they ignore the antisemetism that now drives them out of the UK, out of France, and has them worried all over again as to what came before. but note, before they pish toshed it too… so much for never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMartel, i guess whites were different… they decided to share… over time they may decide that eliminating all the others would have been a better choice given what is going on, and the outcomes…
free the slaves… your hated
make equity for all… women hate you
make school cheap and available to masses… the students hate you.
i could make a very long list…
Many Jews get hysterical at Christian proselytizing because they have an ancestral fear that it ends with the sword. Personally, when someone comes to my door with religious tracts, I just say, “Thank you, but I’m not interested,” and close the door. Never had a sword thrust at me yet.
The same Jews who get hysterical at the very thought of Evangelicals seem strangely passive at the Religion of Peace (TM) chopping off heads of Christians, Yedizis, animists, Shias, Sunnis, etc., etc., etc. Blowing up museums, statutes and artifacts also bothers them, but not people. Go figure!
I look at this from the outside, knowing few Jews and discussing politics with none in about ten years.
Still, it seems to me there is a social issue here. Liberal Jews who aren’t particularly observant still have the liberal thing going on. Which means they don’t want to be like, be associated with, vote for and with, be mistaken for, think like NASCAR-lovin’ redneck bitter clingers.
Corrie ten Boom…? Who? Oh, fundy Dutch nutcase.
Three towns in Holland have renamed streets after my father’s Division (Timberwolfstraat), but I suspect liberal Jews would not have been comfortable with the guys in my father’s platoon. Not that liberal Jews are different from liberals of other persuasions in this regard.
Richard Saunders:
It’s not the least bit hysterical in that their fear is justified—very very well justified and documented—in the historical sense. It’s not “ancestral” either, although it’s not fear of the sword today—very well-organized conversion efforts from Christians are not ancient history. For example, the “Jews for Jesus” movement is quite recent, and takes advantage of those Jews who are pretty ignorant about Judaism itself. It’s a huge movement; here’s a Jewish movement that aims to counter it.
So you’re pretty hysterical in labeling it hysterical. It doesn’t have to be about the sword to be threatening and highly directed at converting Jews in particular.
What’s more, you have no evidence that the same Jews who are worried about Christian conversion efforts have no problem with Islamic terrorism. In the polls cited, Jews rated Muslims quite low as well, and that was just a question about mainstream Muslims and not Muslim terrorists. There is no foundation for your assertion that Jews afraid of Christian conversion efforts have no trouble with Muslim terrorists—in fact, that’s quite an absurd statement.
Neo,
Agree that the Jewish “racial memory” of forced conversion is a real thing, even for the non-religious. However, such are the forces of PC that one can be fired/shunned/adversely-labeled/arrested/whatever for simply reading from the Quran to establish the beliefs of Muslims. There is no debate. Meanwhile, it is always open season on evangelicals.
If there is no possibility of even engaging in debate on the topic then people, especially querulous Jews, will be diverted to some other target. Two stories, both from my family: in the 1990s, when the truth about Alger Hiss was finally revealed from the Venona transcripts, one of my parents’ lefty Jewish neighbors replied: “If he went on television and admitted it I still wouldn’t believe it.”
My parents lived in a community that was a voting precinct, about 95% Jewish. In 2004 there were about 990 votes cast in this precinct, more than 400 of them for G.W. Bush. Even so, with the exception of my mother’s upstairs neighbor, you couldn’t find anyone else who owned up to voting for W. So perhaps the situation is not as grave, at least in the privacy of the voting booth; all the more reason the left increasingly relies on public shaming and punishment of “deviant” beliefs.
Oh, and I know people (same ethnic group) who have told me very privately that those who receive welfare should not be allowed to vote. Most of these folks have/will never vote for a Republican.
And it’s not just us. Many Catholics I know also mock and shun the devout in their own communities as “religious fanatics” or nuts.
I think it is easier to let protochristian cultures have free will.
Even what is called Christian these days is not what was intended. Little bits and pieces still exist, the ones that are not being currently erased from history. Miracles, and such.
One at a time. No one has the right to disrespect the way it really works. You know, being baptized in a tornado will do things. Everyone in the pool. Not your fault, you were not there.
Neo:
With respect to your first point, I simply don’t find conversion efforts, whether from Jews for Jesus, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or Mormons (or Chabad, for that matter) to be threatening. To me, proselytizing is the same as selling Veg-o-Matics. I’m just not interested, and it doesn’t bother me in the least.
As to your second point, I speak from spending the last 33 years as a member of one of the most left-leaning (albeit Conservative and observant) synagogues in the country, as well as reading (not regularly, thank God) the New York Times, Washington Post, Salon, Slate, and any number of Jewish publications. My congregation includes many of the leading Jewish intellectuals, rabbis, and community leaders in the US, including, among others, several former and present members of the Committee on Law and Standards (the highest Jewish legal authority of the Conservative movement), some of the founders and major supporters of the New Israel Fund and J Street, and numerous university professors of Jewish Studies and rabbis teaching and serving as deans at Conservative and Reform rabbinical schools.
So yes, I do have a solid foundation for what Jewish ganze knackers (bigwigs) think, but, lest you think my experience is only among the high-and-mighty, here’s a survey printed in the Forward a few years ago:
“The survey, conducted by the Public Religion Research Institute and published April 3, asked Jewish respondents to rate the favorability of several religious groups. Mormons received a 47% favorability rating, Muslims 41.4%; the group described as “Christian Right” was viewed in favorable terms by only 20.9% of Jewish Americans.”
http://forward.com/articles/154727/jews-cast-wary-eye-on-evangelicals/?p=all#ixzz3VQr3EZS4
Finally, I have neither the time nor the energy to post unsupported assertions or arguments. Aside from an occasional one-liner, I post only if I feel I can contribute something to the discussion, based on my experience and knowlege, not just to see my words on the screen.
Neo said:
“For example, the “Jews for Jesus” movement is quite recent, and takes advantage of those Jews who are pretty ignorant about Judaism itself.”
I don’t know if Neo includes Messianic Jews in her approbation. I have been to quite a few of their services and I have never run into any indication that other Jews have anything to fear from Messianic Jews. Messianic Jews are extremely supportive of Israel and are proud of their Jewish heritage.
Richard Saunders:
Your extremely left-wing congregation is not necessarily representative of Jews as a whole. And how you personally feel about conversion isn’t necessarily representative either, and people who have a different feeling are not necessarily “hysterical.”
You said that the Jews who don’t like evangelicals are the same Jews who have no problems with Muslim terrorists. That certainly hasn’t been my observation among the Jews I know. The poll you cite doesn’t cast any light on that question.
No, they’re not “necessarily” hysterical, it’s just that many actually are hysterical. And “strangely passive” is not the same as “have no problems with.”
Here is your comment in question, in its entirety:
You use the word “hysterical” twice, and say many Jews get hysterical at the very thought of Evangelicals—the wording sounds as though you mean hysterical at the very fact of evangelicals’ existence. Then you go on to say these Jews are “strangely passive” at beheadings. That’s quite a charge! Are Jews any more passive—much less “strangely” so—than anyone else in America? I have no idea what you expect Jews to do about beheadings, but Jews do no more and no less than any other person who doesn’t race off to fight ISIS in person. That would make them about as passive as most human beings about this.
So why the special accusation of passivity directed towards Jews? In what way are they more passive than other people about it? I can pretty much assure you that most Jews have at least as much outrage about the beheadings as most other non-Muslims do. And Jewish liberals—even those Jewish liberals who don’t like evangelicals, who are the Jews you seem to be singling out for special criticism—have at least as much outrage at beheadings as other liberals do.
Then you go on to say that blowing up museums, artwork, etc. bothers these Jews more than beheading (or perhaps blowing up?) people. That’s quite an accusation, too. I have no idea what Jews you know, or why you say that, but it doesn’t correspond to anything I’ve perceived, heard, or read. So yes, I used the phrase “have no problems with” because you yourself wrote that these Jews are not bothered by either beheading or blowing up people. That is an incredibly serious charge of extreme cold-heartedness.
Have you ever heard the Jews of whom you speak say something like: “you know, I’m not bothered by the ISIS beheadings, but it’s the smashing of the statues that really gets my goat! What’s even worse, though, are those evangelicals!!!” That’s what you’re accusing them of, basically.
neo,
wrt yr point to Richard Saunders:
Again, from the outside, I don’t see nearly as many references from Jews to Muslims as a threat as I do conservative Christians.
Does Abe Foxman raise money by pointing to beheadings? Is a theocracy defined as mandatory Methodism (ed. yes. nothing to do with ummah).
Canone , in liberal Jewish circles, get away with an anti-Muslim joke as easily as an anti-Baptist joke? I don’t know, myself, but it would be an interesting question, and I’m talking about in-group censoring for peecee or politeness, not the possibility of Charlie Hebdo style ohjections.
I’m not talking Italian food. Canone should be “can one”.
Richard Aubrey:
Then I would suggest you’re not looking.
This, this, this, this, and this. There are certainly more; that’s just what I found in the first minute or two.
neo
Thanks for the cites. I should have been clearer and made the point that I was interested in casual conversations or reflexive reactions of individuals. Those are the folks who vote in the proportions under discussion.
I note that
““If this idea gets out that Islam is intolerant to the other, then it kind of puts the struggle with Israel in a different light,” Ibrahim said.””
begins with an uncertain conditional. Ibrahim apparently feels there are some who don’t yet get it. Maybe he’s right.
Richard Aubrey:
I have never had a casual conversation with anyone—Jew or Christian, conservative or liberal—who isn’t very very incensed and upset about ISIS.
Neo. Then what’s Ibrahim iffing about? What’s he thinking?
It’s one thing to be upset about ISIS. It’s another to vote libliblib no matter what kind of useless or counterproductive tactics are directed at ISIS. That’s the point.
neo-neocon Says:
March 25th, 2015 at 1:55 pm
…Jews in this country voted for Obama in 2012 at lower levels compared to their support for him in 2008…
From your link: 2012, -9 points. Great!
… Despite the Orthodox, exit polls indicated that Jews as a whole came out in force for the president. Nationally, he garnered 69 percent of the Jewish vote, which was a strong showing but not as good as he did in 2008 when he got 78 [!!!] percent of the Jewish vote.
While Jews are small in number, about 2 percent of the population, they emerged as strategic allies of the president in the key swing states of Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Virginia, all of which were carried by Obama….
We know about the Orthodox! They’re fine. Always have been.
Then and now it is the 70% commies Jews who account for about 50% of the Democ.rats funding who are the nagging problem.
Your generalizations on Jews are incorrect sweeping characterizations. Please!
Even that book you mentioned, according to its Amazon summary, does not indicate what you are saying it indicates. Please! Read the book!
Hungary, 1944. The Jewish community had it comparatively pretty good before the German Socialists occupied. Jewish emissaries freshly escaped out of the camps came in with full documentation on the exactions and got the similar treatment as Hillel Kook and his fellow fighters.
Shame! TWICE!
Nowadays it is J Street, media shills and al …
Goys are nervous …
Anyways, for all that it’s worth. My thesis is that all this long lasting ethnic Jews commie nonsense can only be resolved from within the Jewish community. Hand to hand combat. Desist or else!
Think of the purges after the Normandy landing …
B-t-w, the Orthodox one never meets. They keep to themselves … Amish like really. I worked with some, perfectly pleasant but don’t mingle.
As to the Jewish funding of Democ.rats, here repost:
g6loq Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 7:21 pm
North American Jew seem to account for 50 to 60% of all monies raised by the Democ.rats: busy, busy, busy ….
“IN THIS CONTEXT, the support of American Jewry is enormously important. Obama would presumably seek to avoid alienating his Jewish constituency, 80 percent of whom voted for him and also contributed more than 50% of Democrat campaign funding.”
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Candidly-Speaking-Obama-Netanyahu-and-American-Jews
Jewish Power by J.J. Goldberg
http://tinyurl.com/o9t9yrj
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
http://tinyurl.com/l37ujag
“In states such as Florida and New York, Jewish voters are a large enough percentage of voters to play a crucial role in election outcomes. In presidential elections, Democratic candidates depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money raised from private sources. Any significant reduction in the financial support will weaken Democratic candidates and the Democratic Party organizations.”
http://www.stat.unc.edu/visitors/temp/NYT/Jcontrib.html
“Jews provided at least half the money donated to the DNC in the 1998 and 2000 election cycles.”
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1073968663.html
g6loq:
The Orthodox certainly do mingle; I have some friends who are Orthodox and they and their friends do. Perhaps you are thinking of the ultra Orthodox, a smaller and more insular group.
No one is suggesting that Jews aren’t predominantly Democrats rather than Republicans. But Mearsheimer and Walt are hardly what I’d call reliable or unbiased sources.
I have an opinion on voting which…has to do with jokes.
One can tell another’s voting pattern, in part, by jokes. In this case, the Jews we’re talking about may be upset with radical Islam. They may be predisposed to believe the German copilot had become Muslim.
But they’ll vote according to the jokes. The jokes where the object is viewed with–the joke teller and the audience implicitly agreeing–contempt and derision.
They may be angry at radicial Muslims. But if they comfortably and easily tell a joke about NASCAR fans, they’ll vote lib. Hence my question about jokes.
neo-neocon Says:
March 27th, 2015 at 12:22 am
No one is suggesting that Jews aren’t predominantly Democrats rather than Republicans. But Mearsheimer and Walt are hardly what I’d call reliable or unbiased sources…
Hee, hee! I know.
I left them in there so that we don’t have to address the 2% of the sheeple providing 50% of the monies to the .Rats…
Also, these clowns will turn out to be right on the essence for the wrong reasons … strange realm we’re in …
Orthodox, I wrote. Not Ultra Orthodox.
Ultras! you can’t even say hello to them. You don’t exist. [I lived in Brooklyn for 25 years.]
I’m foreign born and am aware of shades of cordiality… Of course you meet Orthodox, and maybe share a meal at their home but … distance.
At work, fine ….
By-the-way, I agree with them. I you’re serious about your religion, the goys are a waste of time …
Like Expat above, I think that Jewish Evangelical relationships are determined mostly by geography. I am Jewish. I live in a medium sized city in flyover country. I grew up here. Jews who affiliate with the Jewish community are about 1% of the metropolitan population. Most Jews live in one part of town, but even there they are not sufficient in number to constitute a majority in any neighborhood.
As a result, we do not live in isolation from non Jews. I grew up with and am friends with many non-Jews. Our children went to school with and were friendly with many non Jews. When I was working many of my business partners, clients, and employees were not Jews. Many of the non-Jews I know are evangelicals. Although some are Catholics and some are mainline protestants.
In this environment it is impossible to maintain an attitude about Evangelicals. To me they are friends, neighbors, clients, employees, and so on.
Most Jews live in the north eastern megalopolis. Many of the protestants that they know are the ones who left their homes in fly-over country, and tend to disparage their families and their former friends as narrow minded, provincial etc. The whole catalog of liberal elite oikophobia.
Yes, they are liberals. Yes they think poorly about Evangelicals. It is part and parcel of the war between the liberal elite and America. It is not about religion, and politics is a symptom not a cause.
Instapundit today —
ROGER SIMON: Will Michael Oren Change the Jewish Vote? “Obama doesn’t like the Israel that exists. Well, that’s not a shocking conclusion, given his behavior. (Where is that Rashid Khalidi tape anyway?) But that such a conclusion could emanate, even indirectly, from a report by Michael Oren should shake a lot of people.”
Because so many Jews hate Republicans and Evangelicals, it’s hard for me to imagine anything shifting them. But perhaps I’m wrong.