Iraq: hard-won gains squandered
I think this comment at Hot Air on a thread about ISIS burning the Jordanian pilot is of particular interest:
That ISIS IS the same crowd is exhibit two billion and seven of the morally bankrupt media who refused to report these atrocities at the time, and vindication for those of us who said during the Iraq war that this was NOT just a sectarian war, that we WERE killing terrorists in Iraq, and anyone attempting to draw a moral equivalence between what the American military was doing versus the barbarism of our enemy is unworthy of inclusion in any discussion between intelligent adults. On our worst day we’re a thousand times better than they are. But we haven’t been allowed to say that, much less draw the necessary proofs to demonstrate it.
If the American people had known at the time that THIS is the face of the enemy, maybe we could’ve pulled that last bit of determination to finish the job. Instead the American people were drummed out of the war by their own media and we have lost everything we fought for. I can’t even begin to convey to you what it’s like to see pictures of the damned ISIS flag over Ramadi and Fallujah. I was THERE. The people ISIS is killing are the people who, by and large, supported us. They warned American troops about IEDs and ambushes, and we abandoned them. I don’t even have words to tell you how furious I am about that. We could’ve finished the job, if the truth had been reported.
Well, there’s the truth. A man burned alive in a cage while terrorists hopped up on meth, hash, and coke chant religious verses and watch him burn. THAT is the enemy. They have already done that, and WORSE, to Americans.
New generation, meet the old generation—the Vietnam vets who had to watch all they’d fought for get thrown away in the 70s. Except that, bad as that was, what’s happening in Iraq is worse. This time we pretty much had it under control (of course, many people say that was true in Vietnam, too, by the mid-70s). And this time the enemy is intent on coming to our shores. In fact, al Qaeda had already done so even before the Iraq or Afghan wars began.
[NOTE: Discussion of Vietnam, Iraq, and terrorism got me to thinking back to this field execution photo. The more things change, the more they remain the same.]
One of the slogans used by those opposing the draft during Vietnam was “What if they gave a war and nobody came?” That may become true in the future. Why should a young person offer their service, sacrifice, and lives to a cause so readily abandoned to political expediency?
My fear is that we’re going to end up in a situation akin to the US forces in the Pacific. I’m not referring to the US Navy here, which did a splendid job with what it had on hand after Pearl Harbor. Rather, I’m talking about the horribly understrength and underequipped US forces in far off locations like the Phillipines and Wake Island who were essentially abandoned in the face of the Japanese juggernaut.
It wasn’t that we wanted to abandon them, of course. The issue was that we’d let our military get so understrength between the two wars that we had no way of assisting the troops that we’d ordered to those far off locations. And even in the cases in which our troops had support, the inequality of much of the equipment showed. The slaughter of the US Marine pilots based at Midway, as well as many of their US Navy counterparts. The utter uselessness of US torpedoes during the early part of the war (there were instances in which US submarine captains watched their torpedoes hit the target and break apart without detonating). Etc…
In short, the naivette and idealism of many of the citizens of the US during the ’30s led to the unnecessary deaths and/or capture of nearly every last US serviceman west of Midway and Samoa.
My daughter was in the Marines, from 1998, until she completed a second hitch in 2006. This included a stint in Kuwait and Iraq in 2003 … yes, at the start of the invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein. She was there, got shot at on occasion (which first incident surprised the heck out of her more than anything else) and was driving in or defending convoys going up and down from Kuwait almost to Baghdad. She has friends who got even deeper into the sh*t than she did, afterwards knew some who were physically wrecked by the experience. She was there – she saw all kinds of stuff, some of which she has not been really open with me about. She has a disinclination for cooking and eating bacon, for instance … apparently this is what burning human flesh smells like.
So, anyway … when I started contributing to a milblog back in 2002 … I knew what I was gambling on, with Bush’s gamble to liberate Iraq. Yes, a gamble, and with my only child’s life; knock off some low-hanging, and terrorist-supporting fruit, shortstop a rogue state which definitely had the ability to wage chemical war and possibly/maybe nuclear as an example to encourage the others so inclined, to protect the Kurds and maybe build up a state which had the capability of being the South Korea of the Mideast in a couple of decades.
South Korea certainly didn’t look promising, in the 1950s, or even the 1960s. My father was there at the end of the Korean War, I was there in the early 1990s, and the difference between South Korea then and South Korea that I knew … was mind-boggling. With a bit of care, and commitment, Iraq could have been that. Prosperous, safe, with a tourist industry to envy … and a couple of bases of American troops tucked away on some remote corners, ready to thump the Islamic fundies when they got obstreperous.
But Obama chose to throw it all away. What a vain, preening little man.
I’m not about to recommend that anyone join the military these days. The American military, that is. Neither is my daughter. Not when a vain, preening little man can throw away a sacrifice of blood … just to make himself look good making a speech.
“this time the enemy is intent on coming to our shores” neo
Yes, which is why the denial, purposeful obfuscation and lies have an expiration date. The greater in aggregate a society’s denial, the larger the price reality eventually extracts.
“A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens…” Robert Anson Heinlein
kaba,
“Why should a young person offer their service, sacrifice, and lives to a cause so readily abandoned to political expediency?”
Exactly but that is not a ‘bug’ but a feature of Obama’s treatment of the military.
junior,
“the naivette and idealism of many of the citizens of the US [and Europe] during the ’30s led to the unnecessary deaths” of 60 million people. It will be far worse this time. Reality’s lessons failed, get harder with each new testing.
“I’m not about to recommend that anyone join the military these days.” Sgt Mom
Entirely understandable and exactly what the Left desires. Remove and reduce those with love of country and loyalty to the Constitution, fill it with those who have no love for America and you fundamentally transform the US Military into ‘brownshirts’ (they just follow orders) and from there it is but a short distance to the Waffen-SS.
RE: “Iraq: hard-won gains squandered”
How unfortunate, your one-dimensional critique. What you fail to recognize, acknowledge, and extend “hard-won” credit to Baraka Obama for is his successful delivery, to the American people, on his promise to INCREASE THE STANDING OF OUR REPUTATION throughout the world
1.) Russia loves us more vis a vis Bush’s administration.
2.) Israel loves us more than they did prior to Baraka’s regime.
3.) China loves us more than they did 6 years ago.
4.) Great Britain loves us more with Baraka in control than NOT.
5.) Same goes for Ukraine.
6.) Ditto for Poland.
7.) France? It’s a no-brainer.
8.) Australia? Try arguing against this newfound love affair with America.
9.) Turkey? You could not separate our two countries with spatula.
10.) Germany? Merkel is agog over Baraka’s spying on her. We’re golden.
There are only 10 examples. How many more would you like?
{sarc. off}
Vietnam?
Interestingly enough, I observed an interview on television about ten years ago.
Ted Turner was the guest. He was asked whether he was prepared—FINALLY—to admit that a colossal mistake was made by pulling out of Vietnam.
My jaw dropped as he gave an affirmative response.
He was reminded that the North Vietnamese murdered over 2 million people after we left.
It was a somber moment.
And it reveals that the Left is prepared to make the very same mistake.
Clarityseeker:
Can you give a link for that interview? It certainly sounds interesting.
Are you sure, though, that you’re not thinking of this 2008 O’Reilly show? Turner’s response was not affirmative. It was a weasel non-answer:
I didn’t really think much about it…and now let’s talk about global warming…
Clarityseeker:
By the way, if you haven’t read this post, you might want to take a look.
At this point, I am unsold on any intervention, aside from cutting off the money. I don’t have confidence in the powers, that be, to thread the needle and avoid the traps, or accomplish much of anything. I also find the effort by ISIS to provoke us and draw in the USA, highly suspect. Cui bono? What do they get out of it? Supplies? A Scapegoat (a symbol to unify Muslims against a common external enemy)? Publicity, (and funding)? That said, it is hard for me to ignore genocide, and I don’t discount, at all, how lethal dopey histrionic unemployed ”youts” can be.
It would be fun to see the money dry up and the stress it would put on the “true believers”. ISIS would be rare and unique if it was monolithic. In any group, there are always factions, back stabbing, jockeying for power, and turf wars; these schisms could be exacerbated if or when the money pot shrinks. Admittedly, ISIS may have had some success in attracting simple tools, but, given their recruitment videos, I don’t see how they can also avoid the usual suspects, who gravitate to violence, money and power: the cynics, sadists, predators, leeches, sycophants ……
It all goes fubar when one assumes DC has your best interests at heart, and more importantly, when one assumes a majority of the inhabitants of DC are not greedy whores and thieves. And one must always assume democrats are secretly seeking to be members of the politburo sending the likes of you and me to the gulags. Lock and load and teach your grandchildren to shoot small miss small.
Just for my own sake, I looked up an antidote to the ISIS recruitment videos. I hope it is all right to post the links. Compare and contrast the target audience, if you will. It is very revealing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOhvjBwuix4
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=israeli+defense+force+recruitment+commercial&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=14530A17F0912DBED18614530A17F0912DBED186
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfPj00pTNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeJFHuEt8fA
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=go+army+recruiting+commercial&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=9DDFBF2E1F4D6C87C3819DDFBF2E1F4D6C87C381
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=royal+canadian+recruiting+commercial&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=0DE9688448B2B79A28400DE9688448B2B79A2840
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=australian+defense+forces+recruitment+video&FORM=VIRE14#view=detail&mid=F5BBFD0DF746F87447F2F5BBFD0DF746F87447F2
It has happened before.
Nothing learned, everything forgotten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hqYGHZCJwk#t=22
I blame the voters ….
As outrageous as this event is, why are we not as outraged as the Boko Haram and other terrorists burn and pillage in Africa. They slaughter at will and apparently at random. Nada, nothing reported except by the few blogs who bother to read the reports on the scattered foreign papers.
Ruth H:
There has been a lot of news about Boko Haram, and not just on blogs. I’m not sure why you say there hasn’t been.
But the difference is that Boko Haram is based in Nigeria, whereas ISIS is in Iraq, as a result of Obama’s abandonment of the country. That means we are naturally more interested in it.
What’s more, in the war against ISIS, Jordan stepped up as an ally, and the murdered Jordanian was fighting in that war. His brutal murder was a message for Jordan, for the US, and for the Western world engaged in a struggle against jihadis.
Of all the loathsome, squandering, weakling, cowardly, utterly unforgivable sabotage that the Infantile Majesty has sown, it is the Abandonment-Retreat from the huge & hard won Victory in Iraq that tops my long list. When the ‘Twit in Chief took office we had WON in Iraq. Far more Americans were dying from violence in his town of Chicago than in Iraq in 2008, the election year. THANK YOU, President Bush. Thank You, General David Petraeus. And, so many, many more.
And this scrawny fundraiser-golf junky RETREATED for ALL to see. Our enemies took his measure and our friends soon learned they could not trust him.
VAST TESTICULAR CONCAVITY=Obama.
Sgt. Mom; thank you and your family for your service.
And, yes, you have chosen the correct words:
“What a vain, preening little man.”
so true.
MSM is a fifth column for the Islamists.
Not sure if it is intentional, ratings driven, self-hatred, lack of a real education or stupidity.
SgtMom
You, the Hot Air commentator and other military persons should be outraged. We need to hear about your personal experiences.
Someone needs to dress Obama down – to his face – on this very point.
“At this point, I am unsold on any intervention, aside from cutting off the money.”
———————-
I don’t think much is needed in the way of US support, actually. Even the Iraqi Army, which tends to be of fairly questionable quality, fights a lot better when US forces are in the area. Something similar to the initial stages of Afghanistan might be more than enough. Provide arms to the Kurds, and embed US Special Forces teams with both Iraqi and Kurdish ground forces, and ISIS will in a lot of trouble fairly quickly. No nation building would be required (since we have no interest in replacing the Iraqi government), and the only thing approaching a safe haven for a battered ISIS would be Syria. And the only reason that there would be a haven in that country is because of the ongoing civil war.
You are welcome, Charles. ‘Twas seeming a minor thing – what our family did – for obligation (in my fathers’ case for the draft was still on) for adventure, for patriotism and a bit for fun … but the sell-out by Obama hurts. It hurts in a big way. One likes to think and to believe that months and years of hard service in desolate and dangerous places is worth something, in the long term.
But in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, it has all been thrown away, like a used bit of Kleenex, by our little monarch manqué …
I would like to believe that our Republic is strong enough and solid enough to endure his mismanagement of it … but I cannot in good conscience advise a young person that strapping on a uniform and taking the oath of enlistment during this present administration. Just can’t do it.
I was dumbfounded but Twitchy supposedly has pics of King Abdullah suited up to fly missions against ISIS. The comments are something else:
CH JR……
This feeling I have… how do I describe it? Envy?
GLopez …..
Now that is a LEADER!!!
Avatar…..
So Israel and Jordan have leaders who are LEADERS. But we have…a ptz.
neo-neocon,
I’ll continue to look. It seems it was further back than 2008. And it was a much more direct response than his tacit admission to O’Reilly:
“Turner: “You got me. I didn’t really think about it. You know, it didn’t make the news very much at the time.”
That O’Reilly did not follow up on this is fascinating. You know, something like, “Well, if you did give it some thought, what might that be?”
BTW, O’Reilly did not do a great job in holding Turner’s feet to the fire on this one either:
O’REILLY: But he’s a killer. He’s a killer.
TURNER: He’s not, that has never, to my knowledge, that’s never been proven.
O’Reilly should have asked:
“Stay with me for a moment here. Had it been proven, how might your perception of Castro changed, if at all—–perhaps you would still admire and respect him?”
Finally, I also recall Ted Turner apologizing in summer, 1998 for having wrongly accused the U.S. military of using sarin nerve gas on the Vietnamese:
“Nothing has upset me more probably in my whole life,” Mr. Turner said, adding that he “would take my shirt off and beat myself bloody in the back” if it would do any good.
(Bullshit—he would do no such thing)
He must have been going through a senior moment at the time…
Clarityseeker:
O’Reilly often fails to follow-up. He likes to think of himself as very hard-hitting, but he actually likes to be nice enough to his guests that they are willing to return.
NeoConScum writes:
“And this scrawny fundraiser-golf junky RETREATED for ALL to see. Our enemies took his measure and our friends soon learned they could not trust him.”
_______________________________________
And now we just learn that United Arab Emirates has ceased their “coalition” cooperation in flying sorties against ISIS.
When?
Over a month ago. In the interim, the white house has been maintaining the rhetoric that UAE has stayed engaged in the fight. NOT SO.
When that Jordanian pilot was captured, in December, UAE said, “We quit”.
Why?
They saw NO leadership from Obama.
And the U.S. flies about 7 sorties/day. During Iraq war, it was nearing 1,000/day. During “Desert Storm” (1993) it was about 8-900/day.
What’s more, there is no C.S.& R. (combat search and rescue) in the battlefield area. Hence, a higher risk of more pilots being captured should they find it necessary to eject from aircraft.
A freakin’ nightmare.
And the white house has been LYING for over a month as to our coalition “partners” in that region. Even gave praises to UAE in January for their steadfast and consistent involvement.
Clarityseeker:
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if the pilots were to carry cyanide pills, just in case they are captured.
What a nightmare.
All: A member of the Goebbelian propaganda establishment, the crook-nosed Brian Williams of NBC, has been busted, big-time, for LYING for 12 YEARS about having been fired on while flying in a helicopter over Iraq.
Repeatedly lying.
And Williams is now lying about how many times he lied, and why.
The soldiers (i.e., MEN) who were on the helicopters that day have dragged this lying weasel into the light. Please spread this far and wide:
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=354775
Ace has 3 posts on this today. Remember, this is the same poltroon who bowed to His Infantile Majesty Hussein Obama in the NBC “special report” on the megalomaniac.
I keep hoping that this is the darkness before the light, but an inner voice keeps telling me to stop lying to myself.
“I was dumbfounded but Twitchy supposedly has pics of King Abdullah suited up to fly missions against ISIS. The comments are something else:”
——————–
Being a combat pilot is seen as prestigious in the Middle East, and it’s quite common for members of the upper classes to take that as a profession. So King Abdullah being a combat pilot isn’t a particular surprise.
It’s mostly safe out there for pilots, and having him suit up demonstrates Jordan’s resolve in fighting back against ISIS. Everyone likes a leader who’s willing to lead from the front. And that’s what he’s doing here.
The fact is neither Al-Qaeda nor ISIS were been inside Iraq before after invasion in 2003.
What’s prompt the fight with the American is the frustration and lack of confidences and promises made by Mr G W Bush due to “Paul Bremer was the fat kid in the candy store whose mother told him, “You deserve this, Honey.” He was completely irresponsible with his decision making, applying Cold War anti-communist tactics to the international Ba’ath Party believing the US military could somehow overcome every one of his ridiculous policies shortcomings with omnipotent force. ”
That trigged the Iraqi resistance from all sectarians & ethnics
http://www.quora.com/Who-is-responsible-for-the-mess-in-Iraq-today
Japan…Koolaid consumption early, I see. The Iraq War was WON. Stability and cooperation were increasing weekly. NO civil war was in progress. A fledgling democracy was being practiced low and high. Purple fingers, anyone?
Then Obam-Bam squandered it all. Put the Koolaid down, Sonny. Step away from that jug.
Junior: I think you missed the point which was that a head of state is leading from the front, not that he is a pilot, frogman, paratrooper…..
Despite it not being a good idea for the king to put himself in harm’s way, I admire the courage and leadership.
Japan,
As I come to know you through your confused and bazaar posts, it occurs to me that you go through life exercising the “art of projection”.
1.) Japan willfully LIES about ever having massacred hundreds of thousands of women and children in, “The Rape Of Nanking”. You will NEVER heal until you acknowledge and treat the wounds.
(A barbaric series of acts not dissimilar to ISIS and al Qaeda’s behavior)
You’d rather project guilt upon others in fabricated stories that fit your delusions.
2.) Japan’s cowardly attack on Pearl Harbor still gnaws at the recesses of your immoral constitution.
Get over it lightweight.
3.) Your clinging to xenophobic bigotries and inane cultural constructs renders you wobbly; unable to remotely grasp sensibilities in a worldview.
Japan,
For a quick rundown, I suggest this (Brown) student write-up on the origin of ISIS:
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2014/10/02/mills-15-honest-islamic-state/
For a more comprehensive look and listen, I suggest this (Columbia) professors panel via youtube video with a nuts-and-bolts explanation of ISIS:
http://www.siwps.org/watch-video-of-siwps-panel-discussion-isis-in-iraq-syria-and-the-us/
Think of the terrorists as like an opportunistic virus. The regime change did open up opportunity for the terrorists just as the Arab Spring opened up opportunity for the terrorists. However, the terrorists originated from neither the regime change nor the Arab Spring.
The regime change was like treating cancer. Saddam was a cancer.
Although treating cancer opens opportunity for secondary viral infections, we generally don’t concede the cancer to worsen untreated for fear of secondary viral infection.
Cancer treatment isn’t limited to excising tumors or even chemo and radiation. Cancer treatment also includes protecting the immunity-suppressed patient from opportunistic viruses, like the terrorists. Still, it’s normal for cancer patients to catch secondary infections during the course of cancer treatment that become serious enough where treating the virus is as arduous as treating the cancer.
Building up a cancer survivor’s immune system requires a long process for a person, usually a generational one for a country. 8 years was not enough time.
Also consider, as much as the regime change is blamed for ‘blowback’, underestimated is the blowback for the 3rd leg of the 3-way contest, the ME autocrats who have facilitated and sponsored terrorists for years. The terrorists are opportunistic (eg, see their strategic use of free speech) rather than loyal. When Saddam loyalists who had practiced terroristic governance and sponsored terrorists took up their terroristic insurgency, they facilitated the terrorist invasion. Except they didn’t control it. Upon the Arab Spring, Assad also didn’t control the terrorists who had used Syria for sanctuary and transit against OIF.
All,
Explanation of the law and policy, fact basis for Operation Iraqi Freedom again, fyi.
Clarityseeker,
I don’t think commentator “Japan” is actually the nation of Japan.
The lefts refusal to openly publicly identify, acknowledge and oppose evil is not new. Leftists are themselves evil.
Eugene Genovese a well known leftist admitted such. The following is a quote from a Oct 2, 2012 eulogy in The Public Discourse:
http://tinyurl.com/qh3b96e
——-START
In that article in Dissent, Gene put to himself and his longtime allies a pair of questions that he feared many were simply too polite to ask him, for he loved truth too much to avoid them: Given the “piling up tens of millions of corpses in less than three-quarters of a century,” he asked, “what did we know, and when did we know it?”
And he answered the questions:
What did we know? “Everything.” It wasn’t hidden. It wasn’t some surprise. We knew. Or, if we didn’t know, we didn’t know because we didn’t want to know. We knew about the gulag; about the disappearances; about the murders; about the massacres. We knew everything.
When did we know it? “We knew it all along.” But drunk on our ideology and our hatred of exploitation and economic injustice, we thought it was justified. That was our error. We reasoned that “to make an omelet, you have to break eggs.” To defeat exploitation and oppression, we had to murder some innocent people–”some,” as in eighty million.
——
The money quotes are that the left knew about the mass murder and they knew it all along and did nothing. The left is doing the same thing now with Islam.
The left, Marxism is inherently profoundly evil.
Americans sold Iraquis for another hit of opiates (e.g. dissociation of risk and “free” stuff). There is a reason: liability, why people, including so-called “elites”, prefer to prosecute redistribution/revenue schemes at ever progressive levels, especially at the national level which facilitates private capital capture with reduced risk (e.g. diversity, deficits, proximity).
Harold:
Marxism is a primitive religion (i.e. moral philosophy) that is founded on the principle of coercion. It denigrates individual dignity through general redistribution schemes, which notably empowers and enriches a minority ruling class. The alternative is a religion based on principles of individual dignity and intrinsic value that respects individual merit, recognizes human value throughout its evolution from conception to death, and engenders concepts like: promote the general Welfare.
I’ve made several comments on past threads predicting that the Iraq/Afghanistan vets would realize the awful truth. All their sacrifices have been flushed down the toilet by a President and Senate (The dems were in control when we pulled out of Iraq.) who are unable to understand the necessity of defending our nation with force of arms when necessary.
Survivor’s guilt, memories of comrades lost, and helpless rage at the cowardly actions of the government create a stew of emotions that are very corrosive for veterans. I know, I’ve been there. History repeats.
JJ: “…who are unable to understand the necessity of defending our nation with force of arms when necessary. ”
… who are unable to understand that peace is a function of force arms when necessary
… force of arms when necessary.
Eric, “… who are unable to understand that peace is a function of force of arms when necessary.”
That too.
Eric,
You’re joking!?!
[NOTE: Discussion of Vietnam, Iraq, and terrorism got me to thinking back to this field execution photo. The more things change, the more they remain the same.]
Only because anti Left death squads are not permitted to execute or otherwise punish enemies of humanity on US shores. Only overseas may it be done, hidden from sight, and only under cover of government intervention.
Entirely understandable and exactly what the Left desires. Remove and reduce those with love of country and loyalty to the Constitution, fill it with those who have no love for America and you fundamentally transform the US Military into ‘brownshirts’ (they just follow orders) and from there it is but a short distance to the Waffen-SS.
That is not the fault of patriots dying by the commands of Leftists voted in by Americans who wish to be soft on Democrats, calling them friends and family. That blood is mostly on the hands of those who underestimate the Left’s power, as well as the Left’s stormtroopers, zombies, and cannonfodder obeying orders.
The Left’s plan for conquering the US military from inside has been a low priority for awhile. Leftist cultural doesn’t tend to be strong enough to fight warrior Marine culture. Sex, gender, homo, and religious cultural infiltration has already begun and it has been manifested by whatever % of US military forces obey Leftist authority. Those are promoted over others, those who contest that are retired, disappeared, or ordered to die in suicidal charges into enemy territory.
Said it before and I’ll say it again: Worst. President. Ever.
In battle-scarred Iraq, comedy is the newest weapon of war from The Washington Post
http://wapo.st/1rmfLB2