Do those transfusions help?
Maybe those blood transfusions from recovered ebola patient Dr. Kent Brantly are the ticket:
Two Americans have already been treated successfully for Ebola. Dr. Kent Brantly is one. He is providing blood for other victims, on the theory that it contains antibodies with which the body can fight the disease. A patient who received such a transfusion reportedly has fully recovered and another reportedly is making great progress.
And Nina Pham, who also received a transfusion from Brantly, is reported to be in fair to good condition.
So far, all the patients Brantly has helped transfuse have recovered. This is an extremely small “n,” though, so it’s impossible to draw conclusions from it. It could be that these patients are actually doing well because their disease was diagnosed and treated unusually early, and that the transfusions didn’t change its course. Or, it may be that they will take a turn for the worse later. But the trend is a good one.
It is reported that Brantly made the same offer for Thomas Eric Duncan, but that he didn’t receive a transfusion because he was not a match. Duncan was also diagnosed very late in the game, due to Dallas Presbyterian’s failure to recognize that he had ebola on his first ER visit. We’ll never know whether things would have been different for Duncan if he’d been treated earlier.
Here’s Brantly:
More ABC news videos | ABC Health News
[NOTE: Some research on the subject of ebola immunity transfusions in animals can be found here. And here’s why there hasn’t been much research on the topic so far.]
Is this the birth of a new medical industry? Lining up survivers, classifying them according to blood type, and paying them for transfusions? Dr. Brantly can’t continue supplying everyone who matches with his blood. He’s still recovering himself from major illness.
Susanamantha:
As time goes on there will be more survivors. There are certainly plenty of survivors in Africa, although I’m not sure there’s any attempt to reach them for this purpose.
Brantly himself was given a transfusion from a 14-year-old boy he’d helped save, whose parents wanted to do something for Brantly.
they also got doses of ZMAPP from a company called MAPP that was bought by allergan… MAPP cant make enough, so there is another company, not on the stock radar, that got a new CEO that CAN make it in quantity for them. in fact, their method may be able to make it an oral vaccine.
yes. vaccines can work even post infection, as they do not cause exactly the same reaction as the condition, and so, they cause a two pronged attack
there is another potential vaccine, but its not been tested at all in humans like ZMAPP.
i am hoping that news will come out as to this other company… then my investments will look nicer… 🙂
unrelated but also interesting
the US cant export oil at all.. its illegal
they can only export condensate and thanks to keystone and other issues they are having issues moving the oil to refineries.
i would like to ask the venezuelan moron, how is the US depressing oil if it cant export oil? oh, you mean we buy less?
All that’s missing now are the leeches.
If this technique works, wouldn’t it be effective on other viruses? Hard to believe giving survivor blood or blood plasma hasn’t occurred to anyone before for a variety of deadly viruses.
Duncan was also diagnosed very late in the game, due to Dallas Presbyterian’s failure to recognize that he had ebola on his first ER visit.
I know he was diagnosed later than he could have been, but was it really ‘very late in the game’? Real question, as he died over a week after he was admitted, right? So, maybe he was dx’d in the middle of the game.
As for whether the tranfusions help, I think its too soon to say. They clearly don’t hurt though, so as long as we have the blood (so long as our survivors don’t lose too much) we should keep on using it.
Kentucky BioProcessing is the firm making more ZMAPP.
The linked article says Brantly received ZMAPP, in addition to that transfusion Neo mentioned.
So it takes a private individual with no resources other than his body, to get things done, while the government that commands legions in the Regime, sits around making profit on death.
The Africans were already buying up blood of Ebola survivors. People heard about this in the States some days before Duncan appeared.
The research Neo linked to on monkeys might apply to humans or perhaps not. If transfusions don’t work on humans, it could indicate that cellular immunity is the primary defense against Ebola. ZMapp seems to be targeted directly against a necessary component of the virus which enables it to attach to cells so perhaps it will be more effective.
The masters of death and chaos are placating the frightened sheep by shooting an ebola fly on the ceiling with number 7 birdshot.
I was suggested this website by means of my cousin. I’m now not certain whether this put up is
written by him as nobody else recognize such precise about my problem.
You’re incredible! Thank you!
As I commented days ago, Liberia is letting survivors just walk off into the sunset.
When they are critically needed to buttress those providing palliative care, those transporting candidates/ victims…
At this time, west Africa has enough survivors to at least provide blood plasma to the medical community. They have to have priority… obviously.
I would recommend that transfusions begin immediately — even before doctors and nurses show infection.
I’d also start giving transfusions to the US Army posted to west Africa.
“nobody else recognize such precise about my problem”
Spambot Berniece, your plight is shared by many authentic humans as well.
“I know he was diagnosed later than he could have been, but was it really ‘very late in the game’?”
It really wasn’t. He had symptoms on the 25th if I remember correctly (maybe the 24th), went to the hospital on the 26th, was sent home and returned to the hospital on the 28th. That’s when he was diagnosed. He died on October 11, meaning 13 days after he was admitted and 16 days after he had symptoms (which is about normal for Ebola, from what I’ve read), so it wasn’t really late in the game. Except in the sense that maybe the game was over for him in the first couple of days and if they had gotten to it then they could possibly have changed the course of his illness.
Anti-bodies in blood to fight illnesses goes way back. It’s not a new thing. I’ve written about Lassa fever here before in relation to Ebola and I know they were isolating Lassa fever antibodies from surviving victims years ago. From what I’ve read it was mostly for research but I know I read stories about people who were lucky enough to survive Lassa getting paid good money for their blood.
Keep in mind that blood transfusions have their own dangers. There’s potential bad reactions that can happen. The person donating their blood could have other diseases they could pass on. There aren’t necessarily the testing facilities and sterile equipment available in Africa or the expertise so there’s a lot of reasons why it might not be a viable option there. In this country I’m guessing that the reason you don’t hear about it as a standard treatment for other viruses is that there are generally better options available without all the risks. Of course, you would have to prove it’s effective for any given virus before even wasting your time. But since most diseases aren’t nearly as bad as Ebola I think the risks involved aren’t considered worth it under the circumstances. Remember, first do no harm.
“I’d also start giving transfusions to the US Army posted to west Africa.”
Any doctor who recommended that US service personnel get blood transfusions from random Liberians with unknown health histories who had just survived Ebola when those personnel have no sign of existing disease would and should be fired. Because obviously Dr Brantly can’t supply the entire 3000 man army contingent and where else would the blood transfusions come from? If you want to pass on hepatitis or malaria or AIDS or whatever that’s a good way to get started.
The biggest mysteries are carried without mystery
because certainty is the best hiding place;
the hand that makes and controls mastery
is concealed in the forest of the commonplace.
And I’m not sure anyone knows what was in the blood of the 14 year old boy who donated to Dr. Brantly. He was on death’s door so they figured the risk was worth it, but there was definitely a risk involved. Of course, Dr. Brantly’s blood has probably been tested very thoroughly now that he’s back here and before he donated to anyone else.
Here’s an excerpt from sciencemag.com about the use of recovered patients’ blood as a treatment.
I’ve bolded some parts I found interesting.
—–
“But like the other treatments under discussion, it is far from proven that convalescent serum will help Ebola patients. The idea is simple: Because survivors have usually developed antibodies to fight the virus, transferring their blood could help patients. In the past, the strategy was used to treat people with SARS and Lassa fever, a viral hemorrhagic fever, like Ebola. David Heymann, an epidemiologist … says that the therapy’s use in 1976 was encouraging. Heymann, who was part of a team investigating the [Ebola] outbreak in Zaire, stayed behind for 2.5 months collecting a unit of blood every week from survivors, he says. The outbreak ended before the serum could be used in Africa, but some of it was given later that same year to a researcher in the United Kingdom who accidentally pricked infected himself while transferring blood from a guinea pig infected with Ebola. He survived. “The blood was stored in South Africa and at the CDC in Atlanta, but I don’t know what happened to it,” Heymann says.
Convalescent serum was tried again in 1995 in an Ebola outbreak in Kikwit in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Doctors at the Kikwit General Hospital treated eight Ebola patients with blood donated by five people who had survived their infections. Seven of those receiving the serum also survived. A later reanalysis, however, concluded that the patients had survived their infection long enough before receiving the serum that they likely would have recovered without it. And a study in rhesus macaques, published in 2007, found no benefit from transferring blood of convalescent monkeys. “There are many variables and the quality of the immune blood or serum may vary widely from person to person,” says Thomas Geisbert, …one of the authors of that study.
kcom: “Of course, Dr. Brantly’s blood has probably been tested very thoroughly now that he’s back here and before he donated to anyone else.”
Sorry, kcom, But, that’s not something I’d be willing to bet on.
This talk about blood transfusions reminded me of the problem with the blood supply during the AIDS crisis in the 1980s. It took the government a while to get its act together then, too — from the abstract of a 1995 paper:
Blood transfusions are nothing new and are already being tried in West Africa. In fact there is a black market for it. It just has not been very successful.
There are other issues with blood transfusions as they can also transmit AIDS, HIV, Hepatitis to the ones receiving the transfusions.
BTW, the Zaire/Congo result in 1995 seems to be an outlier result. Test here in 2007, were negative and the idea of using blood as a cure was discarded.
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/196/Supplement_2/S400.short
kcom, lea:
“Late in the game” in terms of the progression of his symptoms. He was already very ill by the time of his first ER visit. By the time of his second, he was extremely ill, with severe symptoms of ebola.
I would like to think that the blood was given by Dr . Brantley as an act of human and Christian kindness, which had something to do with its healing power.
It isn’t blood that’s transfused; it’s blood plasma. Whole blood has too many variables. The plasma doesn’t need typing so it can be given to anyone. It carries the antibodies the survivor developed, but there’s no guarantee it will work with Ebola – sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. A plasma transfusion was used in the first Ebola outbreak in 1976 when a Zairian nurse survived and her plasma was used to save another patient.
I am amused by all those arm-chair quarterbacks that find fault with the hospital and no fault with Mr. Duncan or this hap-hazard administration that puts being PC ahead of the American population. If any of you have been to an emergency room you will understand that at best it is controlled mass confusion. Sprinkle in the fact that the hospital administration either didn’t know or were incompetent when it came to having common sense (the nurses on the front line wanted him isolated long before there was agreement by those generals not on the front line the second time he came in.) I can see how he was given antibiotics and sent home the first time.
I guess it is because no one wants to speak ill of the dead, but Mr. Duncan has played a big role in all this confusion and danger to innocent health care providers. He was exposed to the pregnant woman who later died of Ebola. He then decides on the spur of the moment to visit his nephew in America. Coincidence? I think not. He knew what the outcome would be if he developed it and stayed in his country. At least there was a chance if he went to America. So he lied to get here, didn’t bother to share with the intake people that there was a possibility that he had Ebola and burned through $500K in medical expenses. So to all of you that are critical of the Hospital, Do you think Mr. Duncan would have been treated the 1st time around had he said- “I came from West Africa, I assisted a woman that died from Ebola and I think I may have contracted it. ” Instead, he simply answered some routine questions and left the hospital staff sort things out. Again, I’m sorry for his death but at least acknowledge he may have contributed to it more than the hospital.
Of course I reserve strongest contempt for the empty suit in the white house that could have stopped the flights months ago but decided it was better for his image to just let them keep flying.
In a similar fashion for all those bleeding hearts that welcomed the “little children” from south of the border a few months ago, Do you think it is simply a coincidence that there was a sudden outbreak of the EV-D68 virus in all the states where the children were relocated to? What do you say to the parents of the 4 children who have died? Gee it felt good to relocate these future Democratic voters and 4 deaths are a small price to pay?
I grow weary of all the bleeding hearts that feel much as long as it is not affecting them. At least when we were processing the folks through Ellis Island there was a general agreement that the potential immigrant needed to bring more than they were going to take. And if there was a possibility of infection, one erred on the side of protecting the country, not being politically correct. Simple common sense 🙁
Mike- Neo has posted on the topic of whether Duncan knew that he had Ebola. His decision to come to the US was not “spur of the moment” as his ticket had been booked in advance of his exposure. Also see this previous post:
http://neoneocon.com/2014/10/04/did-duncan-know-he-had-been-exposed-to-ebola/
The most compelling evidence for me though is that if he had known he had Ebola and his motive in coming to the US was purely to get treatment then he would have sought treatment earlier and not allowed himself to be sent home.
“It isn’t blood that’s transfused; it’s blood plasma. Whole blood has too many variables. The plasma doesn’t need typing so it can be given to anyone.”
I was under that impression, too, but several times news reports have said that Dr. Brantly offered to donate to the Liberian man, Eric Duncan, but couldn’t because their blood was not a match.
If I had to take a guess, it might be because the blood they give might include white cells and not just plasma, and different people have different immune types based on their MHC types, which controls immunity. It’s the same reason you can’t just give any donated organ to any recipient, the MHC types have to be compatible.
Here’s an article from Britannica about the MHC that mentions organ transplant.
Indigo Red; kcom:
I wondered about the plasma thing, too, but on the video Brantly specifically says “plasma” and they go on to discuss how wonderful it was that his blood type matched that of some of the victims.
If you go to this website about donating plasma, you’ll find that, much like regular blood, it has to be typed.
Neo,
Thank you for that. I was taught that plasma was typeless, that’s why it preferr on battlefields. But that was along time ago and much has been learned since then.
So, it’s only Type AB plasma that’s universal. Good to know.
Indigo Red:
I remember learning the same thing, way back when.
Whether or not the transfusions help is certainly still up in the air, but still blood samples should be collected and analyzed. The enormous progress we have made in analyzing DNA and other cell components and our ability to databank our findings can be valuable in the future. We may even find that plasma in combination with other treatments increases the effectiveness.
“So, it’s only Type AB plasma that’s universal. Good to know.”
That sounds like the opposite of what it should be. If you have A or B types they’ll cause a reaction in anyone who doesn’t have those. Most people in the US have O, i.e. the absence of A or B, so AB would be a double whammy for them. AB is the universal recipient because they can safely take from anyone. But O, specifically O negative, is the universal donor. It’s got nothing to aggravate anyone else.
kcom:
Red cells vs. plasma. See this.