Second Dallas health worker diagnosed with ebola
It is crystal clear that we were woefully unprepared for the inevitable first case of ebola coming to our shores.
Some fatal combination of arrogance, ignorance, negligence, recklessness, stupidity, political correctness (some would add “evil intent”), and irresponsibility has led to hospital workers being exposed to, and contracting, the disease.
This news will make it more difficult to continue to blame the workers (although, where there’s a will there’s a way):
A bleary-eyed Dr. Daniel Varga, the hospital’s chief clinical officer, called the second worker’s infection “an unprecedented crisis” at an early monrning news conference.
The woman was among 76 hospital workers who cared for Duncan, a Liberian citizen who died from Ebola at Texas Health Presbyterian a week ago…
It wasn’t immediately known how the second worker contracted the disease, but Varga said, “It’s clear there was an exposure somewhere, sometime in their treatment of Mr. Duncan.”
“We’re a hospital that may have done some things different with the benefit of what we know today,” he said. “Make no mistake, no one wants to get this right more than our hospital.”
“May have done things different”?
The way health care workers in Dallas were instructed on handling the first ebola patient diagnosed in the US appears to have been an absolute outrage. Read the whole thing; it’s too lengthy, and the allegations of problems too numerous, to fully appreciate through excerpts.
But the problems are hardly limited to the hospital. The administration has failed to put in place the very first line of defense by refusing to halt commercial travel of non-citizens, to at least buy us a little time. The CDC has been inadequate in its directives, training, and preparedness as well. The hospital, faced with a terrible crises, should have acknowledged its own inability to deal with it and either demanded that Duncan be flown in strict isolation to a more specialized facility that cared for patients such as Dr. Kent Brantly (in my opinion, the best way to have dealt with it), or gone into 24-hour-a-day war mode figuring out how best to immediately mobilize so that every required safety precaution was fully in place.
Note the order of my list. The hospital comes last; the others are more culpable. But hospitals are the bottom line here, and that is true of every hospital in the US. I doubt that more that a couple (if that) would have dealt with Duncan’s care all that much better, although I think (and sincerely hope) that many would have done much better with his initial diagnosis.
The entire system of dealing with this is deeply deeply flawed, and based on false premises. And those false premises were in turn based on a significant amount of hubris, among other problems. Things to question (besides the very obvious, the lack of travel restrictions): just about everything, including mode and place of diagnosis (mobile diagnostic unit? special centers? educating the public better?) and of course the protocols for protective suits and their removal, disposal of waste, and number of workers seeing patients.
Meanwhile, at least until now, the stance of public officials has been to blandly reassure in order to allay fear. But the only effect this has had has been a growing and justified distrust of the authorities.
[ADDENDUM: The fact that Amber Vinson, the second nurse in the US to contract ebola, got on a commercial flight knowing she had a temperature of about 100 is astounding under the circumstances. Was it, once again, the idea that a fever under 101.5 doesn’t matter—when in fact it’s been demonstrated over and over recently that in someone who’s been exposed to ebola a lower fever is very meaningful as well?
That said, I actually don’t think it very likely that anyone on the plane, or anyone who was in merely casual contact with Ms. Vinson prior to her isolation, will contract ebola. Of course, if I’d been on that plane, I’d be terrified right now. But in reality, I don’t think anyone will catch it, for the simple reason that when someone has ebola but has a low-grade fever as their only symptom, I think that their contagiousness, although not zero, is still very very low. The contagiousness of the disease rises exponentially as symptoms develop. Once the victim is vomiting and has diarrhea and/or bleeding, he/she is becoming very dangerous indeed. Till then, much less so.
The fact that (so far, at least—and I fervently hope it stays that way) none of Duncan’s pre-hospital contacts have come down with the disease is pretty much the only good news in this whole sorry mess.]
Neo – I totally agree with you order of blame. I just heard the local AM radio station here in DFW say that CIDRAP at the University of Minnesota has warned that ebola can be spread via air. I am now seriously thinking of not going to the office in Dallas and simply working from home until more is known about the spread of ebola.
The ditherer-in-chief is hoping to get through the election with his open borders policy intact. If he enacts a travel ban now, the question is why not sooner? He doesn’t want to hear that question.
None of this Dallas stuff happens if the U.S. had a travel ban.
Patient Zero never should have been allowed to travel to America.
This is all on Obama. For him, he can’t ban travel as that is against his open borders policy. That’s religion to Obama.
They didn’t call him the messiah for nothing. When Islam calls someone a prophet, they mean the prophet of armageddon at times.
(some would add “evil intent”)
Right over here.
As for hospitals, they were the Regime’s minions the moment ACA came into effect. They were only partially in the hands of unions before that time.
shutting the flights is akin to shutting the border from illegals called immigrants, and puts a damper on the idea that people indiscriminately crossing birders in a one world gov way isnt dangerous on many levels
it also can result in a blameless takeover, where obama revretfully actuvates the rest of the partially activated programs that suspend the constitution
without this, such plays would destroy the prize one wishes to seize.with it, there is enough, oh ok, excuses that systens and economy woukd continue…
outright seizure would be met by force….seizure under the guise of public safety would get enough of the reasonable people to waffle and explain away the dark side.
I agree with your order of culpability, NEO.
The travel ban should have happened, and the CDC and Dr. Nicole Lurie, HHS Sec. for Preparedness & Response, should have been all over this.
The Ebola outbreak in Africa started in December 2013. The only news I can find about Dr. Lurie’s involvement in Ebola is a story from August 7th stating, “The Obama administration is forming a special Ebola working group to consider setting policy for the potential use of experimental drugs to help the hundreds infected by the deadly disease in West Africa.”
So as recently as August they were starting to consider a policy for how best to get vaccines to Africa. Nothing about preventing it from spreading here, or what to do when/if it happened. Amazing.
Sadly when morons believe they are geniuses by other means (ie. slick achievement of a higher position over others), they HAVE to blame others, and wear a teflon coat as part of their facade of value.
can you imagine hitler admitting that barbarosa was a bad idea?
can you imagine kim jong ill saying, perhaps my policies arent such a good thing?
how about mao, who in the face of mass starvation thought he would give it a little longer to see if it would come around to his idea
this is the foolish ill of the despotic mind and actions of the idiots in control when their only skill is to manipulate from a position of negatives, rather than lead from a position of ability (ergo their blasting of ability and attacking at levels in which ability is negated in favor of other things)
I wasn’t quite on panic mode, but Obama’s just cancelled a fundraiser so things may well be even worse than we suspect.
There is no way that there was a necessity for 76 different people to be exposed to one patient under these circumstances. I wish I knew what that number meant. I have to assume it also means lab workers who tested his stuff and others that weren’t literally in his room, but maybe not. If not, then the hospital was extremely cavalier in what the meaning of “isolation” is.
Also, as has been pointed out, what was the nurse doing flying around the country? Somehow the CDC had the brilliant realization only after one of them got sick that the people in the room with the Ebola patient should be monitored. They were the most at risk based on logic and based on experience in other areas of the world with outbreaks and yet the CDC couldn’t figure out that was an issue that needed to be addressed. Honestly, how do make these ridiculous, obvious errors? It seems that it would be standard procedure to tell these people to limit contacts with others until after the incubation period was over. Yes, we don’t do that with every disease a nurse runs into during the course of their work, but this isn’t an ordinary disease.
Two “trite” expressions that apply:
– An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
– It’s like closing the barn door after the horse is already out.
Lost in all the current Ebola situation is the Entero 68
polio like virus spreading in children. The original source had to be a youngster who illegally crossed into the US. Several children have died, to their grieving parents my condolences, but who is to blame? That would be the current President who let it be known that any youngster crossing the US border
would be essentially welcomed in !
30,433 signatures on White House petition to ban travel from W. Africa.
MollyNH
The two things are tied. Obama wants open borders. If American citizens die, that’s a small price to pay.
And Dow down 450.
Regarding those alien children brought in, in violation of our country’s laws; this from my Aunt in Florida:
A “group” home, currently licensed for 16 beds, has gone before the Pasco County commission to double the bed capacity to 32. Using bunk beds… they currently are being paid 1.5 million dollars for the 16 “children” and want to double capacity to get a 3 million grant from feds for kids here, ILLEGALY!!
So in other words, due to the flagrant violation of our government in not upholding the existing immigration laws, we as citizens at this point cannot go into an emergency room at our local hospital (many of us with an open vein to the tax system, and paying high rates for our private insurance, thereby subsidizing the entire system in 2 ways) without potentially subjecting ourselves to serious infections.
“… a growing and justified distrust of the authorities. ”
= = = = = = =
About this “representative government” thing…. Has anybody here heard ONE LITTLE PEEP from their duly-elected-dingleberries? Anyone? Anything?
I would have thought, ya know, with kids getting hospitalized, some with paralysis, some dying … that a campaigning Congress-Critter might just seize the topic of ENSURING THE SAFETY OF OUR CHILDREN as a talking point. Ditto for the emergence of Ebola. But, nooooo; guess it’s not all that important.
Apparently on BOTH sides of the aisle, illegal immigration (and/or Ebola-hot-spot/ Third-World immigration) is absolutely SACROSANCT. Even if American kids have to die, the “RIGHTS” of non-citizens (legal or not) come first. Anybody-from-anywhere DESERVES to be here, and THEIR needs get priority.
The stupid lumpen-proles who happen to be citizens (and who happen to ELECT the anti-American politicians making our policies) come second, or third, or twelfth.
Makes perfect sense (in some Bizarro-World).
Which is it?
Marburg marburgvirus
Sudan ebolavirus
Reston ebolavirus
Zaire ebolavirus
Tai Forest ebolavirus
Bundibugyo ebolavirus
Lloviu cuevavirus
It will take quite a bit of time to find out whether this is a newer different version forked from one of the above, and if so, created…
“After my election I have more flexibility”
Executive order 13603
FORBES: Obama’s Plan To Seize Control Of Our Economy And Our Lives
[what follows is a few excerpts in a much much larger article]
The most ominous sign of possible things to come appeared on March 16, 2012, when President Obama signed executive order 13603 about “National Defense Resources Preparedness.”
This 10-page document is a blueprint for a federal takeover of the economy that would dwarf the looming Obamacare takeover of the health insurance business. Specifically, Obama’s plan involves seizing control of:
more than previous national security executive orders, Obama’s 13603 seems to describe a potentially totalitarian regime obsessed with control over everything. Obama’s executive order makes no effort to justify the destruction of liberty, no effort to explain how amassing totalitarian control would enable government to deal effectively with cyber sabotage, suicide bombings, chemical warfare, nuclear missiles or other possible threats.
There’s nothing in executive order 13603 about upholding the Constitution or protecting civil liberties.
In what circumstances, one might ask, would a president try to carry out this audacious plan?
Executive order 13603 says with ominous ambiguity: during “the full spectrum of emergencies.”
On September 24, 1862, Lincoln issued a proclamation officially suspending habeas corpus, which meant that the government could detain people indefinitely. Lincoln “managed the home front, in part,” Neely wrote, “by means of military arrests of civilians — thousands and thousands of them.”
The President may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all Americans
…..executive orders make it easy for presidents to consolidate more power and difficult for anyone to stop them. People acquiesce with the hope that a president will do good, but if he or she does harm — remember, there’s no reliable way of keeping bad or incompetent people out of power — then Americans will find themselves in a very bad place.
Hopefully, President Obama will never try to implement his executive order 13603 — the plan for seizing control of our economy and our lives. But the plan is ready-to-go, awaiting the right moment. One morning, Americans could wake up to the news that suddenly Obama is activating the plan because of cyber sabotage, a terrorist incident, a crisis in nuclear Pakistan, a war with Iran or some other state of emergency, perhaps the state of emergency he extended last year. Or perhaps the president might simply decide that to win the fall election he needs an “October surprise.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2012/04/29/obamas-plan-to-seize-control-of-our-economy-and-our-lives/
Ebola is 2014 October surprise
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/220774-ebola-is-2014-october-surprise
Ebola has become the October surprise of this year’s midterm elections, with Democrats and Republicans doing battle over everything from restrictions on travel to the disposal of a victim’s remains.
What kind of credentials/experience does Dr. Tom Freiden, M.D., the head of the CDC, have that would prepare him for his job?
Well, while in an earlier decade his CV (how accurate this is, I don’t know) says he spent five years in India working for WHO on tuberculosis control, however, his last, most recent job was as NYC Mayor Bloomberg’s Health Commissioner, from 2002 through 2009, and some of his signal accomplishments were reducing trans-fats in restaurant menus, an anti-tobacco campaign, and probably chasing down people who were drinking sugary drinks out of cups that Bloomberg declared were too large i.e. this smooth-talking guy looks like he’s an ideologue and a spinmeister, not the Patton of epidemic control.
Count me among those who place “evil intent” as the primary motivation for Obama’s refusal to ban travel.
Nor is this, at the CDC and hospital administrator’s level some “fatal combination of arrogance, ignorance, negligence, recklessness, stupidity, political correctness… and irresponsibility”. Nor was the way health care workers in Dallas were instructed on handling the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the US merely an absolute outrage.
This is nothing less than criminal negligence and depraved indifference to human life.
Mere incompetence, arrogance, ignorance, negligence, recklessness, stupidity, political correctness and irresponsibility are insufficient as explanation because as reader Tom, a physician with 25 years of experience commented in yesterday’s thread, “The basic tenets of infection control are three: isolation, contact tracing, and quarantine.” These are common sense, obvious steps that even laymen realize.
There is NO way that the CDC is unaware of this nor is there any possibility that Obama wasn’t informed of this weeks, if not months ago.
As many here state, this is about keeping the southern borders open. Regardless of how many innocent lives may be lost in a calculated political move by Obama. And since its with malice aforethought, arguably it qualifies as criminally negligent homicide.
(Criminally negligent homicide occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death).
We just have to forget that the government is even there. We have to go around them by person-to-person talk and private companies acting on their own.
Is there a law that says airlines must fly into here from Liberia or other “host” countries?
The government will only make things worse. Right now they are exacerbating problems. We have to do an end-around.
Second worker is black. Nurses’ union complain.
Obama hurting “his” people.
This morning my husband and I concluded together that there is no more a fool or knave question. George Soros got Obama elected and all is going according to plan.
“Or perhaps the president might simply decide that to win the fall election he needs an “October surprise.””
In order for Obama to initiate executive order 13603, he needs a ‘bi-partisan’ crisis sufficient in severity for the US Military to remain ‘neutral’, it’s highly unlikely that an Ebola pandemic could meet that criteria prior to the November 4th election.
The 2016 election however is another matter entirely, at this point there is more than enough time for a severe enough crisis to occur.
Wolla
Tommy boy is Oberlin and Columbia Med. Also worked as a community organizer.
Well qualified.
President Barack Obama extended George W. Bush’s Declaration of Emergency regarding terrorism on September 10, 2009, on September 10, 2010, on September 9, 2011, and on September 11, 2012
President Barack Obama extended the Declaration of Emergency on November 12, 2013, citing continued conflicts in Iran
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The Insurrection Act of 1807 is the set of laws that govern the ability of the President of the United States to deploy troops within the United States to put down lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion
On September 30, 2006, the Congress modified the Insurrection Act as part of the 2007 Defense Authorization Bill (repealed as of 2008).
The changes described above were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 SEC. 1068.
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 was signed into law by Obama
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Several states of emergency have been extended multiple times, effectively creating indefinite states of emergency in particular areas. For example, a state of emergency with respect to Iran, originally declared by Jimmy Carter on November 14, 1979 during the Iranian hostage crisis, has been continuously renewed for over thirty years, most recently by Barack Obama in November 2012
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Senate Report 93-549
“EMERGENCY POWERS STATUTES: Provisions of Federal Law Now In Effect Delegating To The Executive Extraordinary Authority In Time of National Emergency” was issued on November 19, 1973 by the “Special Committee on the Termination of the National Emergency” pursuant to Senate Resolution No. 9 – 93rd Congress, 1st Session
These proclamations give force to over 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal constitutional processes
States of national emergency are declared by the President by the issuance of a “Presidential Proclamation” or an “Executive Order”. There is, of course, no specific constitutional authority given to do so, but the practice has never been challenged
As of October 11, 2013, President Barack Obama has issued twenty-one un-classified Executive Orders declaring a state of national emergency or modifying a perviously issued Executive Order declaring a state of national emergency and invoking delegated extraordinary powers
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“A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years, freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency.”
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Presidential Directives, better known as Presidential Decision Directives (or PDDs) are a form of an executive order issued by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the National Security Council. The directives articulate the executive’s national security policy and carry the “full force and effect of law”
Obama started issuing them in 2009, none are known, all are secret.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution states, “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”
At least two American lawmakers have stated on the record that, in their opinion, Section 1031 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 legalizes or authorizes martial law in the United States.
Senator Mark Udall stated “These provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect…
Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil.”
been trying to discuss these changes and laws, and provisions, but at no time did we want to… perhaps we can talk AFTER the crisis that would negate our being able to talk about it under the laws, and provisions? just wondering…
working for WHO
and
this smooth-talking guy looks like he’s an ideologue and a spinmeister,
your being redundant…
The CDC gave up it’s role in disease control years ago and went into social engineering as Dr. Freidan demonstrates.
Geoffrey Britain (I just realized GOB is wrong. “Geoffrey Of Britain”. sorry)
your correct… i was just putting that up in that i noticed the term suddenly appearing in political news and so forth, and how it appears in the articles about the EO.
but note, we are already in a state of emergency. its just not in line with what i said before, which is that you dont want to destroy that which your taking, or else the taking is not as valuable.
[for the sake of space i am just putting one item up for each location]
Miami:
U.S. Military, Miami Police Staged An Urban Training Exercise With Diving Blackhawks & Machine Gun Fire
Harrisburg:
Federal law enforcement practice helicopter maneuvers at Capitol
Minneapolis
Minneapolis Residents Catch Footage of Black Hawks Conducting Urban Training Exercise
St. Paul:
Black Hawk Helicopters in Downtown Denver
Galveston
Army to use old jail in Galveston for training exercises today
Worcester
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 there was a military exercise in downtown Worcester, MA, the second largest city in New England after Boston. Chris Robarge, ACLU of Massachusetts field organizer for central Massachusetts, lives in Worcester and witnessed what he describes as a terrifying raid
Houston
Another Massive Military ‘Training Drill’ Involving Helicopters Spotted in Houston
Los Angeles
LAPD And Special Forces Conduct Military Maneuvers In The Skies Above Downtown LA
Laredo
U.S. Military to perform helicopter exercises along border
Chicago
Blackhawk Choppers Buzz Chicago Skyscrapers
Boston
LOW Flying Military Choppers & Planes Over Boston For URBAN Warfare Training
St. Louis
US Military to Run Urban Exercises in North St. Louis — Residents Hope It Will Cut Down on Crime
New Jersey
Army Conducts Training Exercises in Long Branch Monday Night
Military Training Rattles Monmouth Residents
Portsmouth
Mock Disaster Training Exercise in Scioto County (no helicopters in this one)
Scottsdale
Military Air-Evac Helicopters Practice Atop Scottsdale Hospital
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Obama to Top Brass: Will you fire on American Citizens? [GB: shown below]:
“World-renowned educator and human rights activist Jim Garrow says that the source, man regarded as “one of America’s foremost military heroes,” told him that President Obama is using a new litmus test for “determining who will stay and who must go” among top-ranked military leaders. That test is whether they will fire on US citizens or not. Garrow says that his source made the disclosure in order to “sound the alarm” over the administration’s plans…” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzT6X3_Bg9o
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Report: Washington Didn’t Even Tell Marine Gen. He Was Being Replaced
Gen. Stanley McChrystal (forced to retire): I Never Thought I’d Be Accused of ‘Disloyalty or Disrespect’
Petraeus resigns after affair with biographer turned up in FBI probe, Fox News confirms
Gen. James Cartwright, maverick who ‘jolted the system,’ is honored at Marine Barracks
“…Cartwright had a reputation for his analytical prowess, but also for his independent streak. A willingness to challenge the conventional wisdom inside the Pentagon earned him critics, some of whom waged a concerted campaign to lobby President Obama to bypass him as chairman of the Joint Chiefs…”
SEAL Team Four commander in Afghanistan ‘commits suicide’: Married father is found shot dead
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Liberal think tank says President can use military to push progressive agenda
http://www.examiner.com/article/liberal-think-tank-says-president-can-use-military-to-push-progressive-agenda
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The Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition- that is not a typo — during the last six months. This includes 450 million rounds of .40 hollow point, 200 million rounds of .223 rifle ammunition, and 176,000 rounds of .308 168-grain hollow point boat tail (HPBT) that is used almost exclusively as ammo for sniper rifles.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/09/why_does_homeland_security_need_14_billion_rounds_of_ammunition.html
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V.I.P.R. Vows to “Dominate, Intimidate and Control” the American People
http://www.coachisright.com/napolitanos-v-i-p-r-vows-to-dominate-intimidate-and-control-the-american-people/
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Quoting:
“Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government…Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart”, said Justice Robert Jackson, the chief US prosecutor at Nuremberg.
Funny… but you have lots of homeland security tests and programs doing all kinds of things on the border of legality under the auspices of training, and so forth, but we cant close a border, and we cant prevent liberian flights…
CDC: 2nd Dallas health care worker with Ebola took flight night before diagnosis
What????
not the Patton of epidemic control.
Exactly. He may possibly be a decent administrator, but at this point it is clear that he isn’t any sort of take charge guy. Seems to me that a more proactive leader would have known who was capable, gathered a small team, and sent the best people out to look over the situation. An even better leader would have already had plans and people in place who had war gamed the possibility and been ready to go.
CDC Chief Frieden on Ebola: Sealing Borders ‘Increases People’s Distrust of Government’
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/06/CDC-Chief-Frieden-on-Ebola-Sealing-Borders-Increases-People-s-Distrust-of-Government
Frieden:
I have been asked whether we should stop travel to Liberia. The answer is no: to keep Americans and people in non-affected countries safe, we must continue to work to support efforts to stop the spread of Ebola in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone. One strategy that won’t stop this epidemic is isolating affecting countries or sealing borders. When countries are isolated, it is harder to get medical supplies and personnel deployed to stop the spread of Ebola. And even when governments restrict travel and trade, people in affected countries still find a way to move and it is even harder to track them systematically.
The above is a lie.. period..
given that we have things called parachutes..
doctors can reach anywhere, especially military docs
and as far as supplies…
well, military been dropping supplies since WWII
so the whole idea that its “harder” is idiocy or convenience…
airdrop
In peacekeeping operations or humanitarian aid situations, food and medical supplies are often airdropped from United Nations and other aircraft.
U.S. military air-drops relief supplies in Iraq
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-military-air-drops-relief-supplies-in-iraq/article/2551818
Drone to air-drop beer to concertgoers in South Africa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5woXPmzJabk
Africa Airdrop: Fighting Hunger worldwide
http://www.wfp.org/videos/south-sudan-air-drop-action
Air Forces Africa Shares Airdrop Expertise with Ugandan Forces
http://www.africom.mil/Newsroom/article/6850/air-forces-africa-shares-airdrop-expertise-with-ug
Ethiopians Observe Airdrop Procedures in Horn of Africa
http://www.africom.mil/Newsroom/Article/7190/ethiopians-observe-airdrop-procedures-in-horn-of-a
Emergency Air Drop Begins in South Sudan
http://www.voanews.com/content/emergency-air-drop-begins-in-south-sudan/1488918.html
U.S. Makes 5th Airdrop to Stranded Yazidis in Iraq
http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/us-makes-5th-airdrop-stranded-yazidis-iraq-24952124
Neo: it is now being reported that the second Dallas Ebola patient traveled by air with a low-grade fever of 99.5 on the night before her diagnosis.
Frieden says she “shouldn’t have traveled” with that temperature, while the CDC is simultaneously telling other passengers that she exhibited “no signs and symptoms” of Ebola while on the flight.
From the CDC:
“Health care workers who had been exposed to Duncan were undergoing self-monitoring. They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people.”
Self-monitoring is obviously not a good idea.
How very irresponsible of that nurse.
Virus-transmitting ‘yellow fever’ mosquitoes discovered in L.A. County…
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-yelllow-fever-mosquito-los-angeles-20141015-story.html
not to mention that the patient that has ebola flew with a low grade temperature, and there were five more flights before the plane was taken out of service.
so… anyone want to bet when we hit the 100th patient?
when riots may come?
airline stocks plummeted.. market was down
but near the end of day, it recovered some
(it does that a lot lately)
This Ebola thing just keeps getting worse and worse, and it looks like, due to the government and others incompetence, lack of thoroughness and attention to detail, and carelessness, lack of preparation and plans, a lot of other stupid moves, and political correctness, it may be starting to spiral out of control; a real clusterfark.
After all, how hard is it to realize that you should strictly control and restrict the movements and the contacts with other people of people who had potentially been exposed to Ebola?
We have now been informed that the second nurse to contract Ebola–a nurse, you might remember, who we were assured was being “monitored”–decided to take off and go on a flight to Cleveland, Ohio and back as well as reportedly visiting family in Akron, a day before being quarantined after showing signs of Ebola, thereby potentially exposing a reported 150 people in the plane with her (not to mention others)–and you know what disease incubators/spreaders those closed airplane cabins with recirculating air are.
By the way, it was also reported that the airline “sanitized” the plane twice and put it back into service. Doesn’t that reassure you? Especially since just the other day some of the workers who clean these planes went on strike, complaining that they had neither the training nor the equipment to deal with Ebola.
Why’d she do it? I have no clue.
Some news stories say that, ironically, the nurse went to Cleveland to attend some sort of seminar on Ebola, or maybe being “monitored”–obviously not quarantined and obviously not being kept in sight by somebody, or really restricted–just “cramped her style,” she had the ticket, and decided “what the hell,” and just took off, since at that point she had no symptoms–see, for instance, the MD from NBC whose cameraman contracted Ebola while on assignment in Africa–she along with the rest of the crew supposedly in “voluntary quarantine”–who went out in NYC to get soup from her favorite restaurant and, when caught, complained that since she “had no symptoms,” what she did was perfectly safe. .
So, because of a number of screw-ups, in just a few days we’ve increased from 40, then to 75, then to 125 people who were potentially exposed to Ebola being “monitored”–whatever that means–now adding another possible 150 aircraft passengers who have potentially been exposed. Only this time it seems that these 150 will not be monitored, but will merely be notified by phone that they could potentially have been exposed, and it sounds like they will be given a “fact sheet” that lists the signs of infection they should be looking for.
If I were in their position I would hardly be reassured by this.
note that being a leftist liberal frieden’s ideas and things refuse to acknowlege real world human behavior.
ie. if you put up a no guns sign, then you stop mass gun attacks
ie. if you put police to search your bags in the subway at random, then the terrorists will give up, not go to another station, and wont send someone ahead to look before they enter
ie. women are equal, so we lower standards for discriminating
More from that brain-trust known as the CDC: “due to the proximity in time between the flight and the patient’s symptoms, the CDC would like to interview all 132 passengers that were on board the flight. Those who traveled on the flight are considered low-risk, but are asked to call 1-800-CDC-INFO (1-800-232-4636).”
Uh…shouldn’t the CDC be contacting them?
“They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people.” I would like to know if the CDC actually TOLD the exposed health-care workers not to travel on commercial planes. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is another rule that was made up on the spot today, in hindsight, that nobody happened to mention to the affected people before.
We need someone like Russell Honoré, to get them all out of the “stuck on stupid” mode.
But I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Even if the CDC hadn’t told them not to travel on commercial planes, I would think a nurse who had cared for Duncan in his final days and had worked with another nurse who caught the virus would have the smarts not to do such a thing.
Along with others, I believe this is an intentional act on the part of team obama. The correct procedures for responding to an pandemic are well known. Dear leader wants death and chaos.
Ann, I agree, and I’m not absolving the nurse from some responsibility here. However, the CDC is also responsible for what it told or didn’t tell the exposed workers. Given their inconsistency right now as to whether she was “symptomatic” with a 99.5 temp — they seem to be saying simultaneously that she was, so she should have known better than to get on the plane, but she wasn’t, so passengers on the plane shouldn’t be worried — I wonder just how clear their instructions and warnings were to any of them (could they go to the mall? could they go to work?) and how much of what Frieden is now saying is more of the victim-blaming and a**-covering we’ve already seen from him.
Look for lies and more lies.
That’s all Obama admin have left.
They got more than that. They can smuggle ISIL bombers via tunnels and then declare a November and a second October surprise.
The latest report is that nurse number two, Amber Vinson, spent five says in Akron staying with three family members, some of whom who work for Kent State University (although Kent State was quick to say that Amber never set foot on campus), and planning her upcoming wedding with her fiancé, before flying home on Frontier Airlines, potentially exposing all those she came into contact with, including 132 fellow passengers, to Ebola; the U.K’s Mail Online reporting that, when she boarded the flight back to Dallas she already had an elevated temperature of 99.5 degrees.
In addition, the Cleveland Plain Dealer now has a notice up, asking anyone who saw her or came in contact with her in the Akron area to call the CDC (http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/did_you_encounter_dallas_ebola.html#incart_river).
As we have been told by the CDC and others in authority, over and over again–if a person has not yet developed symptoms, that means that the levels of virus in that person’s system have not yet reached the level where they are shedding the Ebola virus in numbers sufficient to infect anyone. Why, then, would the CDC now be wanting to find those who came into contact with her in the days before she likely had a slightly elevated temperature?
I checked the website for my small city and saw nothing mentioned on handling a pandemic, though there was pages discussing weather safety issues.
So, I just called the “emergency management” section. I left a message asking if the city was initiating any planning to deal with an ebola or pandemic crisis.
I’ll keep following up and if I get no response, then I’ll start calling the city manager and mayor.
Then I’ll start checking the three hospitals to see what their plans are (only one had a comment on the front page of website), then the larger hospitals (nothing so far on websites).
On the state health department website, there is information links to the CDC, but they have started issuing updates on what the state has been doing. Apparently, they started contacting hospitals in August and on the 10th, they initiated an “Incident Command Structure”. This is a management structure which works to coordinate information between agencies during emergencies and large events where there are many people involved. It was used during a major PGA event in the region this year, so they keep their training up.
And the press releases state that the governor has had meetings with various departments, city management, health care people on the ebola issue, so at least they seem to be on top of things.
So, I am starting to feel better about my hometown – the challenge for everyone is to start checking your local and state agencies to check to see if they are starting to plan. Tell them to post specific info on their websites.
On a personal level, start doing some of your own preparation – check your pantry and start building it up. Be prepared to shelter in place for 3 weeks or more. And, if it’s a cold icy winter, you’re set and you won’t have to go to the store as often.
Wait a minute – if chlorine and UV light can kill the virus, what about another winter of polar vortexes? Does anyone know what temperature would kill the bug?
You know all of those movies, where the extraordinarily far-seeing, knowledgeable, smart, and tough government operatives, aware on an almost godlike level, virtually omniscient–chess players all–make all the right moves?
That is not this government, nor is it its CDC.
How about how trashed an airplane is after a flight–the crap on the floors, in the restroom, in the pocket in front of you, the used kleenex practically everyone has shoved somewhere, or just dropped on the floor, the drink containers and cups, the well-thumbed complimentary magazines, the earphones, blankets, and pillows that have been “up close and personal” with passengers, the head cloth behind you that may or may not have been changed between flights and that you might have drooled on as you slept, the finger prints that are everywhere–body fluids anyone?
Now the LA Times is reporting that before the aircraft that carried Amber Nolan back to Dallas was pulled out of service and “sanitized,” it flew five other runs–back to Cleveland, OH from Dallas, then on to Ft Lauderdale, back to Cleveland, then on to Atlanta, and, finally, back to Cleveland where it was pulled out of service, cleaned “three times,” then put back into service.
Mrs Whatsit:
Quite a pattern here on the part of the CDC–
It’s Duncan’s fault, it’s the Spanish nurse’s fault, it’s the 1st Dallas nurse’s fault, it’s the 2nd Dallas nurse’s fault—everyone but the CDC is at fault.
Blame, blame, blame someone else, the new official stance for everything that goes wrong.
In the CDC’s defense, they do have guidelines in place (last updated August 22) — Interim Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Ebola Virus Disease Exposure — which include this on “controlled movement”:
Controlled movement requires people to notify the public health authority about their intended travel for 21 days after their last known potential Ebola virus exposure. These individuals should not travel by commercial conveyances (e.g. airplane, ship, long-distance bus, or train). Local use of public transportation (e.g. taxi, bus) by asymptomatic individuals should be discussed with the public health authority. If travel is approved, the exposed person must have timely access to appropriate medical care if symptoms develop during travel. Approved long-distance travel should be by chartered flight or private vehicle; if local public transportation is used, the individual must be able to exit quickly.
And it says that controlled movement restriction should be in place for 21 days after the last known exposure.
But maybe she got approval? Or no one knew of these guidelines?
Ann:
The CDC had issued guidelines for evaluating an ebola case, too, but the Dallas hospital never followed them. If they had, Duncan wouldn’t have been sent home the first time.
Why didn’t the hospital follow them? We don’t know. Did the CDC just hand them out along with a million other guidelines, buried in the huge amount of such things that are probably issued constantly? Were they too confident no hospital would actually ever face the situation? They certainly didn’t seem to be on high alert.
What’s more, the guidelines for what the personnel were supposed to wear seem to have been inadequate and/or poorly communicated, as well. For instance, one set of gloves? No buddy system?
Wolla Dalbo:
It’s amazing that the nurse got on the flight. Was it, once again, the idea that a fever under 101.5 didn’t matter, when in fact it’s been demonstrated over and over recently that in someone who’s been exposed to ebola a lower fever is very meaningful as well?
That said, I actually don’t think anyone on the plane will get sick. Of course, if I’d been on the plane, I’d be terrified. But in reality, I don’t think anyone will catch it, for the simple reason that when someone has ebola but has a low-grade fever as their only symptom as yet, I think that their contagiousness, although not zero, is still very very low. The contagiousness of the disease rises exponentially as symptoms develop. Once the victim is vomiting and has diarrhea and/or bleeding, they are becoming very dangerous. Till then, much less so.
The fact that (so far, and I hope it stays that way) none of Duncan’s pre-hospital contacts have come down with the disease is pretty much the only good news in this whole sorry mess.
Of course, it could be the nurse simply has the same attitude as Dr. Nancy Snyderman, who released a statement about her breaking her voluntary quarantine that contained this:
“As a health professional I know that we have no symptoms and pose no risk to the public, but I am deeply sorry for the concerns this episode caused.”
Did you see this too about the self-monitoring system?
Dr. Nancy Snyderman spotted at New Jersey restaurant during Ebola quarantine, draws health department crackdown
The New Jersey Health Department issued a mandatory quarantine after NBC reporter Dr. Nancy Snyderman was reportedly seen getting takeout at a Hopewell eatery. The NBC News crew was placed in voluntary quarantine for 21 days after cameraman Ashoka Mukpo was stricken with Ebola in Liberia. Mukpo tweeted Monday that he’s ‘on the road to good health.’
Neo-Neocon–
Do you remember those flu/cough remedy commercials of a few years ago, very graphically showing that when somebody sneezes or coughs, they atomize and spray droplets all around them for many feet?
When the CDC talks about how Ebola is transmitted, they say it is through “bodily fluids,” and the bodily fluids most often mentioned are the obvious when an Ebola patient typically has non-stop diarrhea and projectile vomiting–vomit and feces–but “bodily fluids” also include saliva, tears, and sweat.
They say that “you learn something new every day,” and I’ve just earned something new in the last few minutes, looking at a clip of Dr. Ron Paul, M.D. talking about the terminology the CDC uses in describing the transmission of Ebola.
What Dr. Paul pointed out is that when most people hear that you have to have “contact” with bodily fluids they assume that means direct contact–that you have to get some of these fluids on you.
However, Dr. Paul said that the CDC says that you can potentially be in “contact” if you are within a three foot radius of such fluids, so that if, for instance, someone with Ebola coughs or sneezes, and you are within three feet of them, it’s possible that you could then be in “contact” with bodily fluids that contain the Ebola virus.
Time will tell if just sitting within three feet of someone with Ebola-who might be sweating, crying, sneezing, or coughing, makes it possible for you to contract the disease.
So far, those who had the most sustained and close, unprotected contact with patient zero during his infective phase–his family–have shown no signs of infection, nor have we heard of anyone on the aircraft Duncan was traveling to the U.S. on having come down with Ebola. So, it may well be that it is as hard to contract Ebola as authorities are telling us it is.
However, given that no one yet knows how the two nurses who have contracted Ebola got it, uncertainties about whether or not Ebola is or can become an airborne disease, how “contact” is defined, and given all of the various “bodily fluids” involved, I would be very wary, indeed, of being anywhere near someone stricken with Ebola.
This is starting to remind me of Dr. Michael Chrichton’s book, Jurrasic Park.
Chaos Theory and “Life will find a way.”
Or maybe The Andromeda Strain….
carl…
Blood pH may actually be a significant factor for ebola.
All of my earlier posts are now bearing up.
However, as long as the Stooges are in charge…
“What difference does it make!”
&&&&
Tragedy and farce are fused in this fiasco.
BTW, America is permitted ebola to migrate FAR faster than it ever did in Africa.
The American diet (high fat = high lipids = maximal ebola growth) figures to make it MORE lethal here than back in Africa.
The ONLY correlation that makes any sense: ultra low fat diets repress the tempo of ebola reproduction.
This is why fruit bats are not falling out of the skies all over Africa.
It’s why anyone with a fat laden diet dies quickly. (Pregnant African mothers are stuffed with fats — it’s a local tradition.)
The only survivors may end up being alcoholics and babies. Thank you Michael Crichton.
the CDC is also responsible for what it told or didn’t tell the exposed workers
this is not true, and is based on an assumption. the CDC is a federal agency and has no power (thankfully), other than what it does federally. disease control is a state thing. that is, unless the state asks the cdc to come on by, the cdc has no actual pull to tell the workers and others anything.
its up to the states to come up with the actual protocols required by the hospitals. and ultimately the hospitals administrators have a kind of free reign given that they tell the state entities what they think should be done, and the state tends to follow their ideas.
its hard to understand the mechanics behind things. for instance, in the institute that i work at, you can go online and read reviews that they have good work conditions, great vacation time, wonderful healthcare, but you cant get raises… ten years and i have yet to earn a raise, when i have doubled my salary in other places. but the person that runs the place gets a 900k salary and earned a 1.5 million bonus this past year. why? because he gets his bonus by reducing costs, and labor is a cost, and so what they do is give him the money, not the employees, and only management gets raises.
so what you have are unmotivated workers, who are underpaid over time, and who have no reason to try harder as no matter how hard they try they cant get more. they get those good things, which makes it attractive enough to stay, but not enough to be positively motivated.
this should explain to a lot of you why you see the level of stuff you see in hospitals. nurses that care but are run ragged, becuase they cant pay their bills, they dont have what they need to do their jobs well as buying one kind of thing saves a bit.
there is also the thing where people favor people for contracts to supply and so forth. so what you have is administrator whose uncle starts a business so they can get the supply contract, and again, the managements family does ok.
on another part, to attract top docs, they give out million dollar loans with no interest charged, and terms for the life of working. and of course employees read this in the papers, they also see billion dollar buildings and so on.
so in this malaise is the patent and care and the nurses, who take the brunt for the rising costs, but in truth the rising costs is in large management salaries, low lower employees and the pinch.
so what you get (with sociaisma and pc), and an idea of doing what is minimal to meet the task. with the president saying ebola is not that bad, what was done was not what would clearly work, but what was hoped to be good enough given the description from authorities which validate their choices
when the fit hits the shan, they then try to adjust it to the next minimum. which is what they are doing now.
and the CDC at best is an advisory, as they dont get invited to the party, as that would cost a lot as the CDC would not necessarily look at the funds before they say what to do.
oh the things i could say and reveal.
[including how my place is spending millions on a new system that will completely suck because they went outside of the company. why? well that way the employees dont get traind and leave, and so have to suck up the bad and make it work, as management which doesnt know how to do the work, signed on to something that any person who does do the work would argue against. but that would not be team playing to them]
I think I may need to take back everything I said upstream about the second nurse, Amber Vinson, being irresponsible:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that Vinson called the agency several times before flying, saying that she had a fever with a temperature of 99.5 degrees. But because her fever wasn’t 100.4 degrees or higher, she didn’t officially fall into the group of “high risk” and was allowed to fly.
Jack: Look for lies and more lies.
That’s all Obama admin have left.
Of course. its like the long letter from george kennan said or implied. the socialists do NOT compete in merit, other than the skill to manipulate to what they want. ie. they want the job that earns a lot, but since they dont have the skill to do the job, they have to lie to get it, then lie to keep it, etc.
in the long telegram about soviet russia, george points out that the skill they have is about aquiring power, but not by skill within the framework, but in the art of acquiring it by any other means. deals, nepotism, force, blackmail, etc… to which he points out that they are not good at governance. governance requires skill.
the bottom line is that if the public were as discerning about outcomes they would send these people packing, as they do not have the skill to run things, but only the skill to achieve by other means. then once in place, what can they do?
this is why socialism doesnt work as it changes the formula from looking to the accomplished to looking to other things and ignoring such and accepting excuses.
losers are who find socialism attractive. because it allows them to succeed by other means. by pretending and dissimulation, and excuses, and teaming up against others to basically parasite off them.
note.. there was a time when americans made fun of soviets because the functionaries, and so on, replaced the able and were mostly incompetent. now we are like that, with obama and ebola and all this other stuff, your watching the incompetent at the needed tasks, but not at getting the position, try to fulfil the tasks.
art, I’m aware of the Constitutional aspect of the CDC’s role and that public health is a state function that the CDC can’t just muscle in on. Here, however, the CDC has been handling the contact-tracing and monitoring of exposed people in Dallas from the beginning. It was Frieden of the CDC who said that the nurse violated “CDC guidelines” by getting on the plane, and it’s now being reported that the nurse called the CDC (not Dallas public health officials) to report her low-grade fever before she got on the plane and was not told not to do so. As I understand it, Dallas has invited the CDC to help or has accepted its offer to help, so that the CDC does, in fact have direct responsibility in this case.
And, not only did the CDC have direct responsibility, but the CDC did not know what the CDC was doing:
“Vinson had been self-monitoring and was reporting her temperature to CDC epidemiology teams routinely.
The federal government spokesman who spoke with NBC News said that Vinson called the CDC on Monday before flying from Cleveland back to DFW on Frontier Airlines Flight 1143, and she reported that she had a temperature of 99.5 degrees.
According to the government spokesperson, when Vinson called in, the staff she talked with looked on the CDC website for guidance. At the time, the category for “uncertain risk” had guidance saying that a person could fly commercially if they did not meet the threshold of a temperature of 100.4.
CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden had said earlier Wednesday on a phone press briefing that Vinson “should not have traveled on a commercial aircraft.””
Full article here: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Ebola-Patient-Contacted-CDC-Before-Flight-Agency-Says-279365622.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_DFWBrand
Clearly, this pandemic of ebola is different from those of the past. I do not normally trust DC to operate in a responsible manner and to be even remotely interested in serving the best interests of the nation; I have absolutely no reason to trust team obama’s response to ebola and every reason to suspect this half-assed charade from the cdc is purposeful as directed by dear leader.
Mrs Whatsit:
The CDC must have an in-house website that’s different from the public one then because when I look at the public page (Interim Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Ebola Virus Disease Exposure, linked to above), there’s not even an “uncertain risk” category. And the only category that doesn’t require “controlled movement” is the No Known Exposure category, which she surely could not be thought to have been in, right?
The incompetence is scary.
“The American diet (high fat = high lipids = maximal ebola growth)”
Dude, really? Show me your data. Or are you just making s*** up? There’s enough truth that we don’t need people making s*** up.
Sorry for being harsh but there’s no reason to act like a buffoon because there’s a legitimate crisis going on.
Again, show me the study that backs up what you’re saying? Because I’m guessing with all the more important things to study about Ebola that one has never been done. First and foremost, where would you get the people to infect to do the study?
“This is why fruit bats are not falling out of the skies all over Africa.”
Again, really? That’s the best argument you can make?
“It’s why anyone with a fat laden diet dies quickly. (Pregnant African mothers are stuffed with fats – it’s a local tradition.)”
Again, show me the data. And as far as that being a “local tradition,” you do realize that Africa is a continent, right? It’s got over 1 billion people and stretches 5,000 miles north to south. It’s 3 times bigger than the United States in both population and area and has hundreds of different languages and cultures, each with their own traditions. Tell me what “local” means in that context. I’ve lived in Africa and every pregnant woman I knew ate the same foods as everyone else. None of them were “stuffed with fats”. Of course, I lived in one corner of Africa so I can’t make a blanket pronouncement about the whole continent. That would be ridiculous.
Really, we can do better than spouting crap about a serious issue.
Again, sorry for the harshness but facts are our friends.
Liz: Wait a min ute — if chlorine and UV l ht can kill th e virus, wh at abou t another winter of p olar vortexes? Do es anyone know what temp erature would kill the bug?
Wolla Dalbo: How about how trashed an airplane is….
from ca nada:
freaking censor software is killing this post no matter what i try…
Neo: I don’t think anyone will catch it, for the simple reason that when someone has ebola but has a low-grade fever as their only symptom as yet, I think that their contagiousness, although not zero, is still very very low. The contagiousness of the disease rises exponentially as symptoms develop.
unlike flu, ebola attacks the liver and lives in the blood. aids lives in the blood and its not very contagious you have to mix blood. which is why sex is the most common means as it can cause micro tears as a minimum.
anyway… when it attacks the liver, the clotting and other things change. you can either get clotted up so that it gets to thick, or in the case of ebola, it gets thinned. with the other effects, the blood vessels get leaky, and so the virus then starts to seep into other tissue.
its at this point that the virus can mix with liquids that then can transfer it to another person. before that, its pretty much trapped in the blood and stuck there. there is a chance that an iv drug user could transfer it before the leaking, but that would be rarer than rare given things so far.
Here’s a very interesting page about Ebola.
The virus itself is sensitive to lipid solvents, detergents, commercial hypochlorite disinfectants, and phenolic disinfectants. The virus can also be destroyed by ultraviolet and gamma radiation.
Wollo Dalbo: Time will tell if just sitting within three feet of someone with Ebola-who might be sweating, crying, sneezing, or coughing, makes it possible for you to contract the disease.
yes…
reston virus was transmitted this way in a lab
also, the confusion here is in the definition of ‘contact’. to average people, contact is touching physically, to medical types, contact can be through the air in small droplets.
this is not so silly if one thinks that a phone call can be considered contact if asked did you have contact with a person.
so, yes, a person with ebola past the stage where it can move from blood into tissues, they can sneeze and the droplets can carry the virus, and it can enter any mucus path. so it dont need to go into your lungs or mouth, it can land on the surface of your eye.
Here’s an interesting article about bats as carriers of viruses.
Why Bats Are Such Good Hosts for Ebola and Other Deadly Diseases
Another hypothesis, reported in Emerging Infectious Diseases in May, suggests bat flight might generate enough heat to mimic a fever. As part of the normal immune response in many animals, fevers help combat infection by raising body temperature to levels that will kill or disable invading pathogens. By raising their temperatures, the hypothesis suggests, flying might inadvertently be dialing back bats’ viral load each night.
There are other interesting hypotheses mentioned in the article. None of them are confirmed as of yet but the article says there is some reason to believe bats might be special in regards to carrying diseases without dying themselves, compared to other animals.
There was no mention of fruit diets, though. It was more about DNA, microbiology, and the workings of bat immune systems, i.e. the things that keep pathogens in check.
blert: The American diet (high fat = high lipids = maximal ebola growth) figures to make it MORE lethal here than back in Africa.
this makes no sense blert, other than fat is energy.
there is a woman who cared for her own family, with a 25% death rate, and she did not get infected.
in fact, she invented a way that the CDC is now looking to copy and use in economically depressed areas.
she basically made her own clothing out of garbage bags. poking holes and taping parts together. using this method, she cared for the family
(i love how amazing people can be]
the virus uses macropinocytosis and clathrin-mediated endocytosis to enter the host cells. for those who dont know what this is, the virus attaches to the surface protein, which gets the cell to engulf the virus and draw it into itself. endocytosis
Ebolavirus can infect an array of host cells which makes the virus a very successful infectious agent.
i could not find any literature on the high fat stuff.
since its a virus, once it uses endocytosis to get inside, it hijacks the cells system and cause it to make copies of itself.
in the body, most stuff is bound up in cells, and so high fat is not flowing around, but locked into fat cells which will release it in the form they have it stored in, other than a fat person having a larger store for lasting longer, i cant see how weight has a bearing.
Mrs Whatsit, i was not informing on any condition with texas, but in the process related to the CDC. your points point out that this process was followed, or happened, of which my information was the general process, not how it played out in texas or what stage it was in. (and most have no idea of the general process of their not being able to come in, and so on and so forth)
Artfldgr, here’s another excerpt from the Ebola article I linked above.
The other, larger, membrane GP remains bound to the Ebola virus. This protein forms the surface of the new viruses manufactured in the Ebola-infected cells. Animal studies show that this GP invades a variety of cell types. However, it binds preferentially to receptors on endothelial cells–cells which line the inner surfaces of the heart, blood vessels, and other internal organs. This binding allows the GP surface spikes to mediate entry into susceptible cells, where the virus can begin replicating in the cytoplasm. As the infected cells secrete additional GP, the protein is used to create the surface (and surface spikes) of newly produced viruses. The preferential binding to endothelial cells may help explain the extensive coagulopathy caused by the disease.
“This is why fruit bats are not falling out of the skies all over Africa.”
the bat is thought to be its normal host, and in this case, does not do a thing to it.
in fact. humans only die from three kinds from the sub-saharan areas, while reston (philippines) and tai forest (china) are not pathogenic in humans, but are very lethal to the other primates.
gp is part of a lot of critters… the point of it is that it helps entry to the cells.
“Ebolavirus possesses a single-stranded, non-segmented, negative RNA strand genome that contains seven genes: NP, VP35, VP40, GP, VP30, VP24”
The Ebola virus VP35 protein functions as a type I
IFN antagonist
http://www.pnas.org/content/97/22/12289.full.pdf
VP35, NP, VP24 are key to making the nucleocapsid
(a container that the virus sits in)
you can read about VP40 here
Vp40 protein domain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vp40_protein_domain
and VP30 is a transcription activator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activator_%28genetics%29 for what an activator does.
🙂
for the most part that stuff is useless to everyone but a geneticist… though for some, very interesting
I was just reading Ace (at Ace of Spades HQ)on this whole mess, and he makes a very good point about something that’s been on my mind as well:
“I would not be alarmed about ebola if I thought Doctor Tom Frieden were alarmed on my behalf.
I would not be worried about outbreak if I thought our professionals were worried enough about outbreak that they didn’t need any additional worry on my end.
But their actual attitude — not just the PR spin they offer the public to “reassure” them — seems to be not alarmed at all.
It seems to be lackadaisical.”
Ebola is KNOWN to wrap itself in a lipid sheath.
The exact nature of that sheath is not known to me.
It’s a FACT that we get some lipids out of our diet… because we can’t (apparently) synthesize them ourselves.
One could argue that these (diet sourced) lipids are simply so read to hand that internal manipulations are not used.
&&&
It’s hard to overlook the fact that no primates have a diet remotely as fatty as homo sapiens sapiens — and that ebola runs riot through our immune system.
Other than its lipid sheath, I can’t imagine any rate-limiting ‘ingredient’ required for the synthesis of more ebola virions inside a victim cell. A virus is otherwise pure protein/ amino acids.
&&&
The idea that DIET could slow down the reproduction of ANY virus is simply not explored.
Ebola’s lipid sheath scheme is a tender wrap — and must go far in explaining why it has some trouble propagating.
It binds to surfactants — rapidly.
The talk is that ebola needs to travel in a host — as it has major survival issues when exposed outside.
&&&
We’ve been inculcated with happy talk for weeks on end — by the experts.
I’ve been raising the alarm — for weeks.
&&&
The idea that because YOU (and the official experts) haven’t seen viral growth affected by diet does not mean that its impossible.
For, in all my days, I can’t imagine ANY scientist setting up a diet vs virus growth test. The issue is a blank slate.
What IS KNOWN is that ebola requires a lipid sheath for each new virion. IF any component of that sheath is critically obtained from our fatty diets, then — FOR THOSE AT RISK — it can’t hurt to deliberately switch over to an extremely low fat diet.
The sole benefit gained would be some slowing in the tempo of ebola replication. Obviously, we can’t starve it out.
But, as it stands, ebola is known to grow fast in pregnant African mothers. These same souls are also known to be fed extremely high fat diets if at all possible.
Is this a co-incidence or something more?
&&&
As for ebola ripping through America…
The CDC has done an absolutely crack-up job on
that front.
It has gone against just about every bit of advice/ warning I have offered here and elsewhere.
&&&
Critically, the CDC STILL has a totally wrongful protocol for viral infections.
Specialists need to come to candidates. Candidates need to STOP MOVING AROUND. AT ALL.
Even this obvious step is STILL not being taken.
Ebola candidates need to STAY OUT OF ALL HOSPITALS.
They cross-contaminate everything they touch.
This has reached an extreme in west Africa: de facto those nations no longer have ANY hospitals. No-one visits them for non-ebola medical needs. NO-ONE.
All of the beds are now overflowing with ebola victims – for which the hospitals are not geared — for whom no medicine is available.
By now even a retard can figure out that ebola candidates and vicitims have to STAY AWAY from all ordinary medical care facilities — to include EMTs and ambulances.
SPECIALISTS totally dedicated to ebola have to come to candidates.
Specialty transport has to be used to move them.
Co-ordinated de-contamination specialists have to be at the scene to stop further transmission of this virus.
At least ebola is easy to kill outside the body.
Contaminated clothing, etc. is very likely best destroyed on the scene — by mobile furnaces/ fumigation chambers.
We have to STOP HAULING CONTAMINATED ANYTHINGS all over the nation. There is no need.
It would be most helpful if CDC could announce that this or that fumigant is 100% effective against ebola. Then airliners could be treated without trolling fresh victims through a sea of ebola residue.
As it stands, I’ve been right — all the way — the experts (CDC) have been wrong — all the way.
BTW, why is it only now that the CDC has woken up to ebola? It’s been on the list of damnation for decades. Yet the CDC doesn’t know ANYTHING that is fully true and correct. They are WINGING IT.
Which I presume to be true for everything else we’re paying them to watch.
They’ve got a staggering budget — so they’re off chasing after smokers and motorcycle helmet usage.
(!)
As for fat stimulated ebola growth… poor Williams went from a fever that her own father thought mild enough to keep her at home — to a panic trip around the city — then to death — in less than 18 hours.
THAT’S rapid ebola growth.
Most ebola victims take (literally) days to leap through that progression.
Most leap to the conclusion that it was the pregnancy.
But those who know of African diets for pregnant mothers know that they receive simply amazing amounts of fat — literally being force fed, when possible. Since her father was a landlord, he was certainly in a position to make sure that his daughter was extremely well fed. (by African standards) She was residing in his house, BTW.
I strongly doubt that virologists in America are at all aware of these weird diets. It’s NOT a topic that would come up from Africans. It passes as common knowledge over there. When was the last time you asserted that the sky was blue?
Virologists are specialists. They’ve got enough on their plates. I would be bowled over if even ONE of them knows about this African cultural norm.
Not to be unkind again, but I would be bowled over if you could get one point you made correct. I have a background in molecular biology and Liberia (what are the odds) and so I can offer a critique from experience in both those areas.
Ebola is KNOWN to wrap itself in a lipid sheath.
Lots of viruses wrap themselves in a lipid sheath. It’s not unique to Ebola.
It’s a FACT that we get some lipids out of our diet… because we can’t (apparently) synthesize them ourselves.
One could argue that these (diet sourced) lipids are simply so read to hand that internal manipulations are not used.
It’s also a fact that that’s irrelevant to viruses and how they use lipids. The cell membrane of every single cell in your body is made of a lipid bilayer. Without those lipids you wouldn’t exist. If you took them away, you would just be a puddle of liquid because you would have no cells. They hold the insides of cells inside. Your blood lipids are irrelevant. That’s because viruses reproduce themselves inside cells and are surrounded by the cells’ lipid walls throughout the process. That’s how they get their lipid covers, they push out through the cell membranes and take a piece of those membranes with them, pre-formed.
It’s hard to overlook the fact that no primates have a diet remotely as fatty as homo sapiens sapiens – and that ebola runs riot through our immune system.
It runs riot through other non-human primates, as well.
From one of my links above: “The Smithsonian reported in January, 2005, that at the Lossi Gorilla Sanctuary, 139 of 145 gorillas died from Ebola.”
If you look them up you’ll find they eat fruits and shoots and leaves – with a few grubs and insects thrown in – and other vegetarian items.
Other than its lipid sheath, I can’t imagine any rate-limiting ‘ingredient’ required for the synthesis of more ebola virions inside a victim cell. A virus is otherwise pure protein/ amino acids.
Just to repeat, every single cell that Ebola can infect is, in effect, a lipid bag with stuff inside it. As long as there are cells, there will be lipids for the virus to use.
I’m guessing the rate limiting ingredient is the cell mechanisms that the virus hijacks to reproduce itself. It has to use the cell’s machinery to do its business (make DNA, make protein, etc.) and that’s complicated stuff.
The idea that DIET could slow down the reproduction of ANY virus is simply not explored.
Exactly my point. So that’s why it was a mystery to me that you made this statement like it was a known fact.
“high lipids = maximal ebola growth”
The talk is that ebola needs to travel in a host – as it has major survival issues when exposed outside.
Which is basically true of every virus. They don’t have legs and can’t walk around so they have a limited shelf life outside some sort of host.
I’ve been raising the alarm – for weeks.
Which is fine if you know what you’re talking about. But it’s not great if you’re just making things up or don’t have much understanding of the mechanisms at work.
The idea that because YOU (and the official experts) haven’t seen viral growth affected by diet does not mean that its impossible.
No, but before you say it’s true you should have at least a smidgen of evidence.
For, in all my days, I can’t imagine ANY scientist setting up a diet vs virus growth test. The issue is a blank slate.
Right, so there’s no data to support your contention. That’s a pretty good reason not to make the claim like you know it’s true.
What IS KNOWN is that ebola requires a lipid sheath for each new virion. IF any component of that sheath is critically obtained from our fatty diets, then – FOR THOSE AT RISK – it can’t hurt to deliberately switch over to an extremely low fat diet.
It certainly won’t help one iota. At the risk of repeating myself, the sheath component of the virus is a basic consequence of the structure of every cell in the body. All the virus is doing is stealing a pre-existing cell structure that would be there whether the virus was there or not. Every single cell in your body, to function at all, to exist at all, is a container made of lipids. No low fat diet is going to change that. It might change how much fat buildup you have in your arteries, but it’s not going to change the basic biological fact that your cells are bags made of lipids. Think of a burrito. The insides might be different, but they are all encased in a tortilla. Now think of a cell. The cellular equivalent of the tortilla is a layer of lipids.
The CDC has done an absolutely crack-up job on that front.
It has gone against just about every bit of advice/ warning I have offered here and elsewhere.
I agree with you here that they’ve done a poor job. But that’s an opinion and not a fact. I know other people (stupider people 🙂 ) have other opinions.
They’ve got a staggering budget – so they’re off chasing after smokers and motorcycle helmet usage.
Yes, they’ve suffered ridiculous mission creep like other federal agencies.
But those who know of African diets for pregnant mothers know that they receive simply amazing amounts of fat – literally being force fed, when possible.
Again, I have actually lived in Africa. I specifically lived in Liberia. I spent a certain amount of time in Monrovia. It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever been there because what you’re describing is nothing like what I witnessed. As I said above, I knew pregnant women. They ate what everyone else ate when I saw them. No one, repeat, no one, I saw was ever force fed anything. That just sounds ridiculous.
So I googled and what I found was that that is a practice among some people in Mauritania, which is a specific African country hundreds of miles from Liberia, with different geography, ethnic history and culture.
From Wikipedia: “This is still the tradition in the rather undernourished Sahel country Mauritania (where it is called leblouh), where it induces major health risks in the female population.”
Notice they talk about the “undernourished Sahel country”. It sounds like it’s a reaction to that to show health and wealth in the semi-desert. Liberia is in a tropical rain forest, food is more or less plentiful, so those issues don’t apply and the practice doesn’t exist there.
Since her father was a landlord, he was certainly in a position to make sure that his daughter was extremely well fed. (by African standards) She was residing in his house, BTW.
You might be misunderstanding the meaning of landlord. It doesn’t necessarily mean he owned an apartment complex. All it might mean is that he owned a three room house/shack and rented out one of the rooms. Have you seen pictures of Monrovia? There are plenty of neighborhoods like that even in the capital, without running water or electricity. Or at least not much. You could probably rent a room for 20 or 30 dollars a month. When I lived there I rented an entire house for $100 a month.
So it’s a bit much to assume you know his personal finances. You also don’t know how many children he had and other family members he might have been responsible for. Sometimes one guy might be responsible for five or six of his own kids plus nieces or nephews, plus older folks, etc. The family situations over there are more fluid than our oftentimes tight little nuclear families. And again I will repeat, whatever problems Liberia has, food supply is generally not one of them. Cash money to buy other things is a bigger problem, but just about every family has a farm somewhere they grow food or they have relatives upcountry (i.e. outside Monrovia) with a farm.
I strongly doubt that virologists in America are at all aware of these weird diets. It’s NOT a topic that would come up from Africans. It passes as common knowledge over there.
You’re forgetting that people actually go over there to study all these things. There was an American anthropologist studying the customs in a village near my town. I actually went there to help the missionary nurse do a baby clinic one day. I weighed babies and things like that. One thing she asked all the mothers about was diet. They all ate what everyone ate, which in the case of Liberia means a lot of rice. 90% of meals are based on rice. Basically. it’s like Chinese food in the sense that it’s rice with something on it. The most common dish in my town was rice with a stew made of potato greens. Usually there was some meat in it but not always. Unlike here, the dishes there aren’t named after the meat, they’re named after the vegetables (over rice). So we had potato greens, cassava leaf, palm butter, collard greens, pepper soup, etc. None of the mothers in the baby clinic I helped with were any fatter than anyone else.
Virologists are specialists. They’ve got enough on their plates. I would be bowled over if even ONE of them knows about this African cultural norm.
It’s not an African cultural norm. At best, it seems to be a Mauritanian cultural norm. And a partial one, at that.
Oh, by the way, I taught school. I had female students. None of them were fat. Although there were plenty of much older women who were pretty heavy.
Anyway, I know you’re well-intentioned but be careful about knowing just enough to be dangerous. You’re conception of Liberia is far off the mark. I wish I could show you my picture album. That would be a start. However, although a picture beats a thousand words, being there beats a thousand pictures.
Molecular biology was my college major. I did a paper on the sodium/potassium pump that moves those ions through the lipid bilayer that forms the boundary of every single cell, i.e. the cell membrane. Here’s a link that explains the cell membrane and what it’s made of. It even includes a nice little movie.
Here’s a link that talks about viruses budding out of a cell and forming new viruses with a membrane sheath around them, derived from the cell. It’s about flu virus, not Ebola.
Ann: That is amazing. If the article I quoted is correct, that means the CDC may have already CHANGED its website in a big hurry in order to cover up its own confusion. Note that the quoted language is “AT THE TIME, the category for “uncertain risk” had guidance . . . ”
The incompetence is staggering. I’m the one who said in my original 4:31 p.m. comment on this thread that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the CDC had given the nurse inconsistent information — but now that I find that I was right, I can hardly believe it myself!
Besides the human cost, Ebola has the potential of really disrupting the economy and being a runaway freight train in terms of treatment costs. I am already hearing from friends and acquaintances that they are postponing trips and activities. We already know that SARS had a negative financial impact on the medical services in Canada. Sure, if the number of infections remains low, it is manageable, so you would think that would be the priority.
I don ‘t get how our fantastical global utopianist elites expect the USA to foot the bill for Africa while playing Russian Roulette with the American economy.
We already have some hint of the costs involved based on Mr. Duncan’s care. Here is more from Chicago Boyz blog:
This is an excerpt from a post by Trent Telenko on Chicago Boyz. There is a lot of informative material on the website.
“Short form, it was SNAFU from the word go at Presby and it is likely that Presby is currently facing huge legal liabilities because the CDC ignored the experience of Doctors Without Borders and the health care systems in West Africa which showed that Ebola must be treated by Ebola specialists in separate healthcare facilities.
The Ebola epidemic isn’t a matter of “Medical infrastructure” or “local cultural practices” – the two phrases being liberal terms of art for racism against West Africans in the Obama Administration public health community – it is a matter of treating a biohazard level four pathogen like a biohazard level four pathogen. Bio-hazard four pathogens require a separate medical system to deal with them, prolonged detention for medical screening, travel controls to support those medical detentions and further involuntary quarantine for a positive diagnosis, in other words, a positively controlled, 100% medical screening and detention, border immigration policy.”
The US had a single moment in time opportunity to kill the Left. It’s long past the stop off point now. After they have activated their full regeneration abilities, hurting them is feasible but killing the hydra becomes unfeasible.
That’s because where there is life, there is hope. So long as evil lives, there is the hope that it can triumph again by destroying the light. Those that refuse to kill evil, those that refuse to consider war against the minions of darkness, will not have infinite time and opportunities. That time, that opportunity, is finite and ephemeral.
Because, after a certain point, you’ll be dead but evil will still be alive. Where there is life, there is hope. When evil obliterates life, wherefore is the hope?
blert Ebola is KNOWN to wrap itself in a lipid sheath.
correct, its called a nucleocapsid and is studded with VP35 created glycoproteins, which faciliate its being engulfed and drawn into the cells it infects, and it can infect a number of different types, including the skin type cells which line the blood vessels and the whole outer body under the keritinized super squamous cells that protect you from a heck of a lot of stuff.
blert: It’s a FACT that we get some lipids out of our diet… because we can’t (apparently) synthesize them ourselves
WRONG… we get lipids out of our diet because our bodies will use what it finds and save energy, but outside of that, we create what we need to live from precursors from blood sugar.
you can read details way to long to post here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_synthesis
note that the shell of cells in your body are lipids. this cell membrane is studded with all kinds of channels, and glycoproteins and so on… if you were a plant this shell would be made of cellulose, not lipids…
blert: Other than its lipid sheath, I can’t imagine any rate-limiting ‘ingredient’ required for the synthesis of more ebola virions inside a victim cell. A virus is otherwise pure protein/ amino acids.
not really… a virus, depending on what type, can be almost pure RNA, or DNA… protein is what those things are used to create in cells. and they (RNA/DNA) are made of amino acids and read in triplets called codons. IF you read my post a bit above yours, the target to limit the virus from making so many copies would be VP30, which is the transcription activator. in the case of ebola its basically 7 genes in a lipid shell (give or take some parts).
blert: The idea that DIET could slow down the reproduction of ANY virus is simply not explored.
the reason this is not explored is that it wont work. ie. your body will take things apart to make other things. so even if you dont eat the lipid that the sheath is made from, your body will make it based on the instructions. this is all part of cells existing, living, and dividing into more cells.
fats and lipids are basic energy sources and building blocks and without that, your body will take apart proteins to make them if it has the parts, if not you will get very sick as the body wont be able to maintain itself. its called starvation… and its why you lose muscle mass if you restrict it, as it will take apart things to maintain function for as long as possible
blert: Ebola’s lipid sheath scheme is a tender wrap – and must go far in explaining why it has some trouble propagating.
no… not really. ebola is a blood desease… like AIDs which is also a blood virus (but they are not at all related). if ebola did not attack cell walls and the parts of your body that thin blood, then it would not be externally transmissible, much like aids. Aids does not get transmitted easy because it attacks T cells, and it does not thin the blood or turn the vessel walls into goop. so it never really gets into the fluids that are external, though it can lie dormant in reservoirs outside of the blood, this is not the same as ebola. this is what makes the etiology of ebola what it is. when your first infected, it is in the blood stream and short of intervenous transmission it cant get out to get into someone else. after it progresses a bit, it weakens the cell walls and the plasma of the blood starts to leak out first, putting virus into the liquids outside the blood stream and so in things like mucus (which lines your lungs, and throat and so on), and tears and other things. eventually its leakage is so great that whole blood cells can also leak out, this is the hemoragic part where your eyes turn red like demons and your skin forms blisters full of blood…
blert: The talk is that ebola needs to travel in a host – as it has major survival issues when exposed outside.
right. ebola is a pretty fragile critter, and does not last long outside the body. usually a few hours, but given conditions it can be as much as 15 to 30 hours. its not a hardy virus, like the flu which can last a week outside the body and will last outside water droplets as well. the ebola virus cant last outside without the liquid as the liquid is required to maintain the lipid casing. flu does not have this casing, and so can last much longer. so unless a victim is bitten by a vampire bat from south america, it has no place to live other than jumping from host to host until all hosts are dead or there is no place to jump to.l this is why the CDC and most medical professionals are not as worried as with viruses like smallpox. (for the record, anthrax is really long lived. if it converts to its other form, it can sit dormant for over 100 years and still infect)
by the way, the lipid coat is why the virus is easily killed with soaps. soaps are bipolar molecules with one side having an affinity for oils, and the other having affinity for water. so once the oil side binds with an oil (lipid), it makes the oil soluble in water, which then dilutes it. (most bacteria fall apart when exposed to detergent. in fact, they use detergent to cause this collapse of cell walls to extract contents of cells. of course all i am writing here is simplified for public consumption and understanding)
blert: I’ve been raising the alarm – for weeks.
this is fine, but you have to do more research.
a little knowlege is a dangerous thing, and you can cause more harm than good despiute your best intentions. note that we are constantly complaining about the lefts lack of knowlege of the real world and how their best intentions (if real) are screwing up things.
causing people to change diets to cure something when that change wont do a damn thing is bad… calling things facts that are wrong, is pissing into the well of peoples thinking and ability to understand and make valid choices.
ie. being a mental virus is not a way to combat a biological virus
blert: The idea that because YOU (and the official experts) haven’t seen viral growth affected by diet does not mean that its impossible.
this is not true… after all, no one has ever seen a virus other than some rare photos under some incredible conditions created to take the image. you have never seen a underground fault…. nor have you seen any atomic processes or nuclear processes. most of what science knows is by clever inference and logic. which is why the left can wreak such havoc by screwing up logical thinking… ie throws a wrench in the process.
the point your making is easily determined to be impossible because of how virus work. ie. they co-opt cellular mechanisms and force the cell to use its parts to make more virus rather than do what the cell does. so all that it needs already exists in the hosts it can infect… bats are carriers and are referred to as resevoirs. humans only get pathogenic responses to the ebola that comes from sub-saharan africa, not the other two types.
so you can do simple research thanks to the internet and the fact most information of this type is state funded and so posted in databases whose access is free… though often papers are not free ( and a big money making machine for the publishers. which is why plos1 was such a hit)
continued in next post
kcom: thank you for the edifying responses to blert. There is a children’s picture book entitled “Africa is not a Country” that was meant to educate people like Blert. Apparently he hasn’t seen it.
blert: The idea that because YOU (and the official experts) haven’t seen viral growth affected by diet does not mean that its impossible.
every cell in your body is made of a lipid sheet, and can be canibalized to make sheaths. they dont do it because they understand how the parts work, and have understood for a long time to a very high degree.
in fact, we know so well how to do this, we actually mass manufacture some of them for uses as its cheaper to directly make the lipids than render beings to get parts… (though we always render because its a way to use everything, which is something the leftists do not know about any more than they know that 30% of the barrel of oil we get is used to make medicines, fertilzer, plastics, and lots and lots of things foundational to our modern society)
to see the charts on the various cycles of break down and manufacture would make most people glaze over in the complexity of it. in fact, thanks to progressive education, most of the publics vew of things stopped progressing in the 80s with concepts that were old in the 50s…
want to block fatty acids and change them?
well, lipitor does that as does Atorvastatin.. they are statins. a class of drugs used to lower cholesterol levels by inhibiting the enzyme HMG-CoA reductase, which plays a central role in the production of cholesterol in the liver, which produces about 70 percent of total cholesterol in the body.
the problem with these critters is that they are so simple, and they use the bodies parts to make themselves. usually the thing that prevents them from working in many beings is that they do not have the right key to enter the cell and so, just die out as they dont do anything and the body cleans up its trash.
note that flu is amazing in how it works as the flu virus is too large for it to enter the part of the cell to do the work. so what it does is end up jamming up the entrance to the working part… when it does this, the cells clean up crew comes by and breaks it apart to unjam things. when it does this, the parts are now small enough to pass through the opening and then do what they do.
we really do not have any tools to fight virus. in a way, vaccines are basically virus decoys that cause the body to triggers its system and so have the chemicals floating around that handle the virus
there are so many ways and various systems that these things work on that its impossible for me to condense it (not the least of which i am not known for brevity)
some stuff gets to the virus as it floats around, other things detect cells that are infected and kills them before they can manufacture much…
its hard not to be somewhat religious in some ways if you know the details of these things as the complexity is mind boggling as the spefificity and mechanisms leave one in awe
this is why our educaion and information is so simplified, as the sijmple version gives us a kind of magical view in which its easy to deny anything we want.. while the more specific actual view would blow one away.
my expertise is more in physics, and if you ask the general public what does an atom look like, they will spout a definition that was old when einstein did his work!!! the view of the atom, quarks, and so on, is so different and complicated we dont even bother to teach it to average people any more, and instead use the over simplified concepts which are very far removed from reality
a friend who poses as smart was talking about this subject, and it was clear they did not know what they pretended to know as they were using terms that lose their meaniing.. like talking about a surface at the subatomic level… there are no surfaces at the subatomic level as the concept of what a surface is changes as you drill down smaller and smaller.
and people have no idea the scale range of things aruond them. their knowlege is just enough to make them think they are modern thinkers that know things and so can deny things easy, but not enough to truly be in awe and gobsmacked. ergo my friend being a communist socialist and pontificating using such wrong information.
the ebola virus is about 80nm
our chip manufacturing ability now is in the 25nm range and work is being done on smaller – but the physics keeps changing and its a bear
to put this in perspective, the UV led you buy usually has a wavelength in the 300-400nm range. (uva is shorter but it cant travel far, so is often referred to as vacume uv…)
the spectrum of light goes from wavelengths that is very wide in the ELF radio band to only a few pm for things like gamma radiation. the higher the energy the smaller the wavelength (inverse law). its all the same as its waves…
in fact. the universe is quite quirky in that matter is ephemeral, and can exist as a particle or a wave.
in fact, at the subatomic level, even time is a variable… with the idea that a positron is just an electron going backwards in time.. which is related to the work of Richard Feynman…
Feynman is one of the greats ,and to me, even more so given that he despised the lack of plain english in learning these things. his point being that if you really understood it, you didnt have to wrap it up in all the special terminology and coudl translate it to common concepts.
which is why his lectures and papers were so favored even when he was alive..
he is credited with the birth of nano technology, with his ground breaking paper titled “Plenty of room at the bottom”
the smallest distance possible is the plank length
its equal to 1.616199(97)é—10−35 meters.
or 1.61619926 é— 10-26 nm
ie. .000000000000000000000000001616… of a nm
on the other side
The visible universe stretches at least 24 gigaparsecs in all directions. That’s a radius of 78 billion light-years
or a diameter of around 150 billion light years
light travels 299,792,458 metres per second
(150,000,000,000 * 299,792,458 * 31,536,000) meters
you would have to multiply that number by another
1 000 000 000 to get nm, and then again by 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to get the width of the universe by the smallest measure
given time i could blow your mind in so many ways that modern education has not informed you, and that your thinking is based on concepts long known not to be valid any more and cant even be used to think about the universe accurately…
for anyone interested in reading feymans paper, here is the link
http://www.pa.msu.edu/~yang/RFeynman_plentySpace.pdf
his work is remarkably accessible…
blert: Ebola is KNOWN to wrap itself in a lipid sheath.
Artfldgr: correct, its called a nucleocapsid
I think you’re a little off here. The capsid is made of protein. Every virus has one as far as I know. It’s what holds the genetic material inside. It’s manufactured by the virus genes and when combined with the virus’ DNA or RNA is called the nucleocapsid. Some viruses, but not all, also have a lipid sheath around that, that it acquires as it buds out of the host cells. In the link below, they call that the “envelope”.
Here’s a good link with the definition of the parts of a virus and what they’re made out of.
Artfldgr: Flu does not have this casing
Flu is one of the viruses that has a lipid envelope.
From the link: The influenza virion (as the infectious particle is called) is roughly spherical. It is an enveloped virus — that is, the outer layer is a lipid membrane which is taken from the host cell in which the virus multiplies.
Artfldgr: a virus, depending on what type, can be almost pure RNA, or DNA… protein is what those things are used to create in cells…in the case of ebola its basically 7 genes in a lipid shell (give or take some parts).”
Although the viral genes are used to make proteins in the target cells (which is the same role of all genes in all cells) and the role of some of those proteins is to hijack the cell machinery other of those proteins are structural proteins. They are used to assemble new viruses that break out of the cell. The new viruses (like the original) are made of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein shell which the virus has manufactured. So no virus is pure DNA or RNA. They all have to be enclosed by a protein coat to hold their insides inside. So a correct description of Ebola would be that it’s an RNA molecule with 7 genes, inside a protein capsid, surrounded by a lipid envelope, and the lipid envelope has some glycoproteins (GPs), also manufactured by the virus, attached to it.
Artfldgr: note that the shell of cells in your body are lipids. this cell membrane is studded with all kinds of channels, and glycoproteins and so on… if you were a plant this shell would be made of cellulose, not lipids…
That’s not quite right either. All cells, plants and animals, have a cell membrane made of lipids. It’s what controls what enters and exits the cell. Plant cells, in addition to having a cell membrane, also have cell walls which are outside the cell membrane and much more rigid. Those cell walls are made of cellulose.