Coming of age in the sexual marketplace
Ace describes a new movie about coming of age in the digital era:
There’s a documentary called Sexy Baby, directed by a couple of women interested in exploring current sexual mores. (Trailer here: Content Warning.)
There are several storylines, two of which are particularly interesting. The one that’s relevant here is 12-year-old Winnifred’s story. She’s very precocious, and “gets it” on an adult level. She notes, for example, that FaceBook and other social media pictures of girls must always at least include the suggestion of being open for sex — of being “DTF,” as she says. (Down to F***.)
She says (or implies) that she’s rather trapped by the current market forces, in which boys just won’t take an interest in girls who don’t broadcast that sexual availability.
Remember, she’s 12.
The trailer is one of the saddest things I’ve ever seen.
Ace goes on to note that feminists generally attack those who attack this system, calling that “slut-shaming” and accusing them of blaming the girls.
Feminists, of course, are actually at least partly responsible for the problem, telling girls it’s liberating to sleep around, which helps lead to the skewing of teenage sexual behavior more to the adolescent male ideal—with a vast vast assist from the internet.
It’s a mess, and the hookup culture among teens that I wrote about here is arriving at earlier and earlier ages, and fueled by the visual stimuli of easily-available porn on computers. Individual teens can resist it if they are very strong, but the pull and pressures to give in to it (whatever a girl or a boy might secretly wish to do or not do) is incredibly powerful. It’s one thing to know that holding off from easy sex at a very young age will protect you and help you in the end. It’s another to actually have the strength to do so.
the Zipless F*ck…. its what all women want says feminism…
its the source of hookup culture…
but you wont hear leftists say so, they tend not to care what mental damage they do to their victims/supporters
and this kind of stuff replacves the uplifting art and media that made society so much more positive, and replaced it with what sociopathic women might want.
ie. just look at their goals and you will see its a society of sociopaths
what women hates her husband and the ties of love and marraige? sociopathic kinds who see nothing but limitations from greed to pleasure seeking…
what women would want to drop her kids off and not raise them (so she can go back to her moses harmen inspired society made sex commune…)
the population has fallen seriously…
but who cares? the wealthy men in college get to do hookups, and poor guys who are the wrong race and have no connections get DEMOCIDE… thats exterminastion through political policy more covertly than genocide.
why are so few men in school that the wealthy get to use the underclass who are funded by the state to be presented to them as sweatmeats and morsels?
they had to get rid of people like myself, and my son… so rather than get a researcher in biochemistry and who is VERY inventive and comes up with new tech… we get a man who has no future and sits around waiting to die (better than welfare)… and his son? left honors genetics studies as no phd program would want to pick an oppressor class and look bad, so he went into the military
he is now in position to die over the senkaku islands.
so i dont really care, and most of the young men dont either… (men going their own way, etc… the movement i helped start at mancoat… )
as to the mental harm…
hookup hurts women, unless they are sociopathic – then they use people this way, and thats ok…
same with abortions… hurts women mentally, among other things, but thats ok.. .so long as sociopaths get rid of things that get in their way, who cares about the non sociopathic collateral damage?
then there is the harm from being barren… we have record barren… pissed off older women who exterminated their families and have no famillies to come visit them in the hospice… or take are of them, or celebrate holidays… (moms upset too, but moms will be gone by the time the state takes dear lady lonely to sit in an institution waiting to die on rationed care… her famiy she didnt have wont come protect her, and neither will her hybrid make up social group as family… )
so women get what they wanted..
self extermination…
they wont have to suffer periods any more
they wont have to have weddings or marraiges
or children or messy relationships
the wealthy doyens of feminism got the women of society to neutralize their sons competition and remove themselves from the playing fields
[edited for length by n-n]
“She says (or implies) that she’s rather trapped by the current market forces, in which boys just won’t take an interest in girls who don’t broadcast that sexual availability.”
All the boys in her peer community don’t take an interest? That’s hard to believe. Or does she just mean the particular boys who sexually interest her?
Perhaps this is just a case of compatibility or like matching like: girls who desire sex, however that’s articulated by them, with particular boys who select for girls who broadcast sexual availability.
zipless f*ck
A phrase coined by Erica Jong in the book “Fear of Flying”.
As described by her – It is a sexual encounter between strangers that has the swift compression of a dream and is seemingly free of all remorse and guilt. It is absolutely pure, there is no power game and it is free of ulterior motives. It has also been described as the perfect one night stand.
but who cares if they hurt women
women are groomed and trained (like tanned folk) to blame all the problems on men, who are not allowed to act to fix any of them – as women are in charge.
want the freedom without the responsiblity for the outcome… its the other thing they bribed women with other than murdering their children..
money is the next thing they bribed them with… (but note, like the soviets, they take it in taxes for all those programs!)
and so on
funny thing
they knew that the men were not of the personality that could be bribed this way!!! men are such that you cant bribe them against their own families and society (men tended to kill other men who accepted). women are of the ilk that not only will they sell out their own futures, but the futures of the children, the family and society… and for what? sterile magic beans
Gosh, I just commented on this elsewhere. Okay, I’m probably going to get slammed for this, and here, perhaps, too, but… You know me by now.
The problem with civilization, the one we are in, and many that have come before, is that they are based on lies, allowances, and all sorts of sliding scales.
Marriage was never about one man and one woman. Not naturally, natively, or religiously. It was about one man promising to cover the living costs of a woman and her potential fertility results for exclusive rights to her fertility potential. Anything else was just based on common social and moral etiquette of the times, with, as usual, some wiggle room. Those are the absolutes though.
With the corruption of the state and churches/religion by the state, and then boomeranging back and titrating to worse and worse situations, today marriage is about an impossible task, one woman trying to satisfy one man. It doesn’t, hasn’t, and never will work.
Problems with multiple wives? Why, yes, but not to those involved. To the social structure. Women, given their choices, will select a man who can and will handle multiple wives. Their work load, and the sexual demand they are under, becomes easily manageable. And they are satisfied, as is he. The downside is that there is a larger and more unstable volume of men who will never get the option to marry. This either destabilizes a nation or leads to war with other nations.
I’m not sure what the answer is. In the early part of last century, that was dealt with by the allowance of a great deal of cheating by married men who had the mojo, ala Mad Men if I had to guess (if they probably ruined it as raw truth bugs those who can’t handle it).
Perhaps civilization simply can’t be honestly maintained, and is a dead end in and of itself… ala the tower of Babel. Dunno. But the edges have frayed beyond repair, if I had to guess. The signs are everywhere.
Doom,
The issue here isn’t marriage.
We all desperately cope with life. Even the rich people, maybe especially the rich people, struggle to cope.
We all want things to meet our expectations, but our expectations regardless how just and fair will not be met entirely, and very often rarely.
There is a great deal of sexual activity which has no ultimate consequence however ultimate is defined, but there is a part of sexual activity which causes great suffering.
It is very hard for any society to calibrate these things, especially because certain individual circumstances defy the commonly understood nature of things.
One of the fascinating parts of Manchester’s bio of WSC was the description of the sexual life of upper class British (is it British? I always forget) during WSC’s growing up, including his mother’s sexual life. Even more fascinating was the epic love Winston showed for Clementine.
Then think of the consuming love of Tiberius for Vipsania (sp ?) and wonder how the whole of world history might have been different if he had been allowed to be with his love.
The definition of sexual betrayal varies depending on many factors. It includes the sexual betrayal of oneself.
Why this biological act should be so profound is a question built into life.
The best we can do, is to do no harm, hope for no harm, have compassion for those who suffer, and hold ourselves to doing right, even to the extent of avoiding the near occasion of doing harm.
And maybe forgiving, although that is often not very realistic.
I said to my dad (86) that the hook-up culture is so harmful to girls.
He replied, “It’s harmful to boys, too: it hurts their character and it hurts their hearts.”
Words to ponder.
I had (and still have) a very good relationship with my daughter, especially when she was a teenager, and starting to feel the horrible pull of the black hole – into being sexually active, as is the current trope, encouraged by pop media and peer pressure. We talked it over, several times, very frankly; and I gave her permission to say ‘no’ and to blame me, if she ever was backed into a metaphorical corner by someone telling her that sexual experimentation was cool, trendy, and expected of her. “Oh, I couldn’t – my Mom would KILL me!”
Of course, she also looked around, being a logical child, and saw a handful of horrible examples, within her circle of acquaintances, and was quite happy to use me as her alibi for saying “no deal.”
The sad thing is that the damage that causes doesn’t necessarily show up for years, decades…
It’s sad how this is destroying childhood, and potentially their ability for them to form meaningful partnerships down the road. How does one go from hook-ups (acting no better than a dog scratching the occasional itch with whomever is handy) to an actual give-and-take, loving union that can withstand the typical ups and downs of a decades long marriage?
The blogger Bookworm identified what the Left’s true goal is behind this early “freeing” of sexuality – and it has nothing to do with sex; it’s making them easier for the state to control:
http://tinyurl.com/2bw9q7b
Eric,
How men and women interact always comes down to marriage… or some agreements along those lines. And women of this young woman’s age, are typical marriage age for all but recent times.
Further…
The Left destroys everything it touches.
This is no mere politics and “misguided disagreement”.
http://www.bookwormroom.com/2014/02/19/no-nice-girls-need-apply/
Since I already made a comment there about this issue, I won’t repeat it.
Besides the rest of the potentially destructive issues, at such a young age, they’re unable to understand the risk of exposure to venereal diseases. A large percentage of adults are not very good about protecting themselves; I doubt kids this young are even going to try. What a mess.
Beverly,
I’ve talked to some teenaged (15 or so) girls around the neighborhood and they invariably agree with the statement that boys these days have no social skills and no ability to project command aura or any kind of upright aura.
They are weak. They are absolutely, hideously weak. Yet this vice which would naturally delete their DNA from the gene pool in Nature’s world, is reversed in Mankind’s civilization called America. It’s reversed.
My son just turned 13, two days before his best friend. Their dads, brothers, uncles, and family friends held a coming-of-age ceremony for them. Each man spoke on a different subject: treating women with respect, the value of hard work, duty, honor, responsibility. At the end they were asked to kneel as boys, agree to follow the advice they’d been given, and arise as young men.
He’s been very quiet about it to me (no women were present). I talk to him about relationships and how to treat women, but I don’t know what he’s around at school. I hope he stays strong when this world we live in makes life difficult.
My Gawd, this stuff is mind bending. Men, Manhood, Taking a bullet for our women, Honor, Decency, COURAGE, T-Rex Old School Stand Up, etc. that have been in the character of American Men since before the Founding: GONE with the Apps, Tweeties, I-Thingies and No Cursive Required.
HORRENDOUS.
The weird thing about sex is how it is fraught with so many conflicting factors depending upon the circumstances.
It is only with a sense of risk (because of misunderstanding) I make the following observation.
The exterior reaction to sexual behavior might be more damaging than the act itself. This might be true in more than one circumstance.
The older sense of smothering sex acts in non-recognition (with its necessary encouragement of harmful sex acts) may now have given way to an equally harmful default position of expanding both the category of what is harmful and how intense the reaction ought to be.
Consider the effect on any person, child or adult, who is met with hysterical and repeated assurances that the experience has been life-ruining.
True, the clueless folks doing this (parents, etc) do not know better, but they are numerous and assured of copious positive attention, aligning themselves with what they think is expected, and giving themselves a lot of warm fuzzies.
What makes this so bizarre is the simultaneous presentation of sex in American society as the highest good.
With men forced out of reasonable expectations so quitting the whole marriage scene, society, or this one, has to collapse. Men have no reason to marry, at this point, as a general rule. I am pursuing marriage right now, mind you, but after decades of living the feral life.
Hmm, it looks like 12 is the new 30? Yeah, the faster it happens the more frayed the fringes. Is there… anything actually left?
I understand, if the young woman I am flirting with joins my crew… We will be on our own, save family and a few friends. Not even the churches are, for the most part, on our side. It will be we who choose to live right and avoid much of the rest, as long as we can.
Bookworm is right about sex as a weapon used to destroy a person’s internal boundaries. While she came at it from another source, I myself looked at how cults weaponized orgies as a way to strengthen fanaticism and religious faith by breaking down individual ownership and boundaries.
Sex is the highest good because it allows the predators at the top of the Left to exploit those at the bottom. It’s just another form of wealth redistribution. If sex is a commodity that has marketable value, then it’s like your healthcare or car. Obama will take it and then give it to his buddies. Feminism, meanwhile, prepares propaganda that justifies why this must be to the women and people eat it up. That’s just how humans are. But that’s not how it will end. Humans that give up their self identity via this process of indoctrination and conditioning, will never be the same again. They won’t raise children in a way that inculcates individual will.
American society, unlike the Japanese society, has been corrupted and mostly destroyed by the Leftist alliance for human utopia. This is your utopia, what many people wanted and voted for.
It’s about sex, not fitness. Those “loving relationships” are about money, sex, ego, and convenience. Those “rights” are based on a faith-based article of spontaneous conception. Welcome to the Dodo Dynasty.
The world today makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like Disneyland. One of the commenters is right, evil must be destroyed, completely destroyed.
No human government is capable of that.
When insanity and lawlessness reach global proportions, like it has now, time for God, the landlord of this planet to evict the bad tenants. Tine for Armageddon.
Nothing short of that can cleanse this debauched and sad earth.
Most of the social corruption is designed to enslave and control humans. In this case women. In the case of homosexuals: GLBT and various other minorities. In the case of Unions and immigration, low skilled and low paid workers. They manufacture certain systems and products to control the people, much as a human user controls a weapon or pet: using certain functionalities.
Sex is a weapon that is paired with brainwashing. It works well when put together. In so far as water boarding provides a motivation for a person to talk, sex provides them a motivation as well. It breaks down the resistance. The Left is not against torture, if only because of what they do to children every day.
Social authority allows the Left to force people to do things, and say that this is people’s free will, a moral good. That’s about as much free will as criminals extorting money from shopkeepers. The shop owner “freely” gave up money in exchange for his shop not being wrecked or burned down. That’s “freedom” to the Left.
By destroying the alliance between one man and one woman, or one family and another family, individuals who feel weak and unsupported by society will naturally gravitate to the biggest Sugar Daddy of them, the US federal government. Instead of being married to your job or your spouse and relying on them/it for support and benefits, you are now married and shackled to the “patriarchy” of the federal government. If the Sugar Daddy wants to pimp you out for a few tax dollars, in order to qualify you for welfare benefits, most people won’t have a choice about what jobs they can accept. As in Germany, if a person doesn’t accept the job of a prostitute, which is available, their welfare will be cut. With the destruction and unavailability of love, only the ruthless and cold bureaucracy will be around to provide support and order. This is the monopoly of the Ministry of Love.
As males and females are trained and conditioned to rely on powerful factors such as the bureaucracy and the Regime for sustenance, their ability to combine resources and interests at an individual crowd sourcing level decreases.
Self reliance is an American virtue from the old pioneer days. But if self reliance isn’t enough, then family support and spousal support was almost as good (Sarah Palin’s daughter Bristin would have issues raising 1 child alone, but not when the entire family helps with manpower). The Left, in order to achieve Totalitarian Utopia, must destroy both individual independence, free will, as well as the resources of a single individual: in order to force those individuals to stay on the tax farm. If a woman could be loved and supported, as well as defended by her man, that is a resource that should be taken away from her. The Left cannot tolerate the training programs that would need to exist to create male defenders that exist as an authority in the eyes of their women. The issue of men and women “belonging” to each other via the bond and guarantee of love, cannot be allowed. Everything you own belongs to the Left and will be redistributed at the command of the Regime by the likes of Michelle and Hussein Obama. Nothing you own is yours. Not your spirit, not your soul, and certainly not your physical body. The only legitimate authority is the Regime, not your conscience, not gods other than the Hussein messiah, not your boyfriend, not your lover, not your family, not your parents, not your bodyguards. The Regime will not allow people to bifurcate and redistribute the recognition of Authority to so many: it must be centralized, it must be controlled only by the Regime. If the Regime commands that park rangers put the rod to the peasants, the Regime Expects Obedience. They don’t want any back talk about, “but my neighbors and the friends of my wife are at this rally for WWII veterans, I can’t do that to them”. There is no wife. There are no friends for a cog of the Left. There is only Obedience to Authority.
That is the Left. It is a different paradigm than merely misguided corruption, idiocy, or foolishness. The reason why members of the Left often seem like zombies is because the corruption and the conditioning programs have the greatest effect on the true believers, the fanatics, and those under the Leftist sphere of control. Similar to how children are corrupted faster the more time they are spent under the control of Woody Allens. Instead of producing defenders of human virtue, women and men that love each other and defend each other against the World Itself, the Left produces cogs and tools designed to be used up.
The Left will never give up their re-engineering of humanity. If they have to create sub human monsters as weapons or divide up groups according to genetic differences of male vs female… they will happily do so. That is their religion. Their God commands, they will Obey.
Ymarsakar, I agree with you in everything you wrote.
The US used to promote a climate of independence and self reliance, family unity and a strong sense of community. The family circle was an inbreakable stronghold. Father, mother, child and grandparents all held a different yet sacred position in the family. Everyone had a responsibility towards the integrity and good name of their family and were corrected by family when they erred. Your family protected you locally and the US government protected you internationally.
Freedom and liberty were real. Being American meant being independent. Being on the dole was distasteful and disgraceful to an American.
Obama is evil. The left is evil. The media is evil. The culture is evil. The schools are evil. How do humans get rid of evil? I always thought that good triumphed over evil but……….. I think it will take more than humans can do.
It is like the Invasion of the Bodysnatchers. Everyone fell asleep.
This is a worldwide iisue.
havent had a chance to read..
but had no place to put this..
do realzie that we now live in a totalitarian state.
the constitution is null and voided, and only seems otherwise as long as they do what does not violate it, when they violate it, we ignore it to preserve it.
from militarizing the police
the construction of army manned military civilian labor camps (see army.gov)
rule by executive order (i tried to get neo to discuss this, but it was ignored), which is rule hy diktat that undoes lex rex…
lex rex is dead, rex lex is here…
they are still following the old playbook
and so, what comes next? well, look it up!!!!
wait… no one wants to study the past and then put a wrench in the current thing, so why look it up.
after my famioy was mostly exterminated
we fled to the US
as refugees, we always had a tiny dream of going home again, but now, soviet russia has followed us here..
doing anything about feminism is too late
can we talk about the current dictatorship, or do we have to wait till they do something overt and without ambiguity and everyone wakes up to it?
from the museum of hoaxes, the reason for this
and no, its not PARTLY feminism, its ALL feminism (as it was intended to be, as you haev to look back to understand what justified it and still does!)
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/permalink/margaret_mead_and_the_samoans/
she did more than that.
she is, with the help of kinsey, the one who put forth to feminism that children are sexual… kinsey used pedophiles from prisons to rape babies to prove it by forcing them to orgasm.. (dont believ it, read his book and wonder how he got his information, which kinsey institute refuses to release)
to save meade, and franz boas, the man who showed it was a croc of crap, gave them an out that the girls who she interviewed played a trick on her
(but if the culture is as puritanical as he says, then the knowletge to do the trick isnot there, and puritans dont pull the sexual legs on someone else for fun either)
The issue remains controversial, though subsequent research has tended to favor Freeman’s position.
want to see what happened with her mentor, franz?
Anthropologists as Spies
http://www.thenation.com/article/anthropologists-spies
On December 20, 1919, under the heading “Scientists as Spies,” The Nation published a letter by Franz Boas, the father of academic anthropology in America. Boas charged that four American anthropologists, whom he did not name, had abused their professional research positions by conducting espionage in Central America during the First World War. Boas strongly condemned their actions, writing that they had “prostituted science by using it as a cover for their activities as spies.”
he outed them and like lattimore, drew away the question about him, and his crew establishing the fake science facts for the social things we now are probrammed to accept as real over real.
do note that he outed americans spying for the USA – NOT soviet spies like boas was (or at least his students)…
read the rest of the article as you will find the carnegie institute, the rockerfeller organizations, and such involved too (they were taken over early on, read the famous letter)…
wait till you see the next part
The Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies , Vol. 34, No. 2
The Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies , Vol. 34, No. 2
Franz Boas’ role in shaping twentieth century American anthropology is well known, but less well known is his commitment to radical politics. His political biases have been less thoroughly investigated. While traditional Marxism sought to advance its goals by way of violent revolution ostensibly vitalized by the “proletariat,” the Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci (1897-1931) realized that a Marxist egalitarian goals could be more effectively advanced by infiltrating and taking control of the existing institutional structure of a society. In the course of a thorough study of Boas’ correspondence, the author concludes that there is clear evidence that Boas was an effective convert to Gramscian Marxism and one of its most successful exponents.
but we are about 50 years too late…
Boas was able to place those to whom he awarded doctoral degrees in key positions in major universities around the country as these began to recognize anthropology as a separate discipline. In this way he was able to craft an academic network that dominated and largely continues to dominate the profession, leading him to be known as “the father of American Anthropology.” Famous Boasian students included Ruth Benedict, Margaret Mead, Ashley Montagu, Kenneth Clarke, and Alfred Kroeber (the rapporteur who drafted the academically absurd UNESCO 1950 Statement on Race). By awarding doctoral degrees to these and other students who absorbed his views, Boas was able to pursue a Gramscian strategy of infiltrating and capturing culture-forming institutions as a base for eventual political transformation.
Ruth Benedict
Margaret Mead
Ashley Montagu
Kenneth Clarke
Alfred Kroeber
hitler kicked them out, we took them in
we then took up the same ideas that prepared the way for hitler, and even mimicked conditions just inc ase.
but why bother talking about this?
who wants to go back to the stuff i said 8 years ago to read?
cant make a difference now…
fixing global warming sciecne would be easier.
I think it will take more than humans can do.
While the Leftist Regime may seem omnipotent and nigh invincible once they drop their illusionary masks, what they have never been able to exceed is the power of Death.
All things that live, will die. Thus all things that live, can be killed. Including the Left’s Utopian dream. It is not merely our lives and our dreams that are capable of being ended. Destruction is easier than creation goes all the way, any way.
Many Americans, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses, have decided to rely upon the divine power of God to do something about the corruption of human kingdoms. While that philosophy is not something I’ll attempt to interfere with, I have a slightly different outlook on things.
http://neoneocon.com/2014/01/15/the-ladder-of-evil/
On the topic of evil, Neo wrote something about it and so did a lot of people in the comments.
It must simply be a coincidence that these topics are not taught or discussed in public school.
kit: “I always thought that good triumphed over evil but……….. I think it will take more than humans can do.”
Humans can do it. Good can triumph. But triumph presupposes actually competing.
The problem is folks on the Right stop themselves from competing in the only social-political game there is: the Marxist-method activist game.
Engineer, grow, and spread a proper Marxist-method activist popular-political movement that will actually compete with the Left, and the Right can win.
If folks on the Right continue to eschew Marxist-method activism rather than adopt the method all-in, then the self-fulfilling prophecy of “I think it will take more than humans can do” will be true – but *only* because you made it true by not competing as needed in the Marxist-method activist game.
Marxists didn’t exist in Sun Tzu’s era. Nor were they needed.
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Ymarskar and LisaM, I had a talk with my goddaughters and sobrinas years ago as they started to worry about being sexy or hot or whatever the buzzword was then.
So I asked, “What makes these boys so attractive? Do they know so much more about life? Do they have chores or jobs? Do they pay their own rent?”
They laughed at that, but at least they got the idea. But then, they have parents who are married, and their fathers actually set rules and make decisions about the family. Their dads and uncles are fun guys, but they aren’t frivolous (I think that’s the word I want).
BTW I have a friend, 43 years old now, whose younger sister thought she might be able to stay a virgin until age 15. All her friends were “doing it” much younger – and with men who were closer in age to their fathers and/or stepfathers. This was in the late ’80s, in a rural small town.
The problem was that the parents, were “Swingers.” My friend remembers walking in on her uncle (her dad’s brother) and stepmother, and her father basically shrugged it off. (Not so her aunt, when she found out.)
My friend says that in the ’70s “women’s lib” basically boiled down to being sexually alluring/willing. She and her sister grew up thinking that women could never afford to be unemployed, unattractive, or inconveniently pregnant. Because women were disposable to men who worked hard, drank hard, and slept around hard. (Yes, I know this last part sounds bad, but I can’t think of a way to say what I mean without sounding worse. Curse you, English!)
My friend was comfortable with on-and-off boyfriends but scared of marriage. Luckily she met a young man who was “poor but decent,” as she says, and he refused to settle for co-habiting.
I think the real change has been that young men now are convinced they, too, are disposable. Many have lived without their fathers, so they don’t see why a father can/should be a husband, too.
Eric, isn’t that like cutting one’s legs off in order to compete in the Special Olympics?
30 sperm motility orthomol Fertil Will manage somehow.