Apologize for OT but related: I cannot recommend highly enough Ian Kershaw’s two volume biography of Hitler, the first volume titled Hubris and the second Nemesis. The one volume condensation is good but not as interesting because of the omitted details.
Kershaw describes his objective in the preface (fascinating in itself) and it (the purpose) is not polemical and is achieved. I will not spoil for those who might read the books.
The parallels between Hitler’s success and the narrative driven, hate-based, competence-free politics of the Left are striking.
I suppose that means (among other things) that human nature is human nature, and there is nothing new under the sun – – two propositions disdained both by Hitler and the Left.
Since the topic is Hitler-related, I will note that both Obama and the Chinese are technically fascists. Both seek control over the nominally-privately owned means of production.
This strikes me as a more workable system than Communism. Communism will dictate one and only one direction for production: the party line. Fascism reduces the degrees-of-freedom for any industry choice compared to Capitalism, but the number of choices is still greater than one.
As such, fascist-controlled state enterprises will continue to limp along far after Communist enterprises cease to function.
Nazi Germany’s gun-control was absolutely Libertarian compared to Stalin’s USSR.
Though he seldom spoke about the Holocaust, one of my late father’s recurring themes was shame that he survived but did nothing. The last conversation I ever remember having with him about it, he was 93 or 94, was about just that. He said, “If only I’d had a gun I could have done something.” I said, “But Dad isn’t a live dog better than a dead lion?” His response was almost instant, “Maybe, but I would have taken a few of the bastards with me.”
The great Solzhenitsyn said the same thing about the Gulag. I can’t find the quote but to paraphrase, there were very few of them but many of us. If we’d only fought back when they came in the night there would never have been a Gulag.
I don’t know how widespread gun ownership was in Germany even preWWII. Most Germans lived in villages and farmers went out to their fields, unlike the dispersed farms we know in America. Pigs and cows were kept in barns attached to the houses in the villages. Much of the wooded land was likely to belong to the nobility, so the average guy might not have had a place to hunt. Even today, most hunters belong to clubs and hunt in groups. The pay a rental fee to use the hunting grounds and are required to care for the grounds and manage the wildlife. It’s all much more organized than in the US.
It is always better to resist and die than to surrender arms. “Maybe, but I would have taken a few of the bastards with me.” If 3 million (1%) resist and take just one of the bastards with them it is game over for the fascists. And yes, Obama is not a socialist, he’s a fascist.
In flyover country we tend to know local law enforcement agents and local military people on a personal level. There is never more than 2 degrees of separation. We know their families and we know where they live, shop, worship. etc. These people are not going to go gestapo simply because they know no mercy will be given to them or their families. Anyone from the outside showing up (DHS) will be a target. Its not going to be lock down in Boston after the pressure cooker bomb. That dog in the middle of nowhere does not hunt.
expat: German hunting is organized and regimented, a very far cry from what we do here, and the huntables are managed also, if I understand correctly. Except perhaps for boars.
Parker, fascism is a variant of socialism. Mussolini was a Marxist and editor of Italy’s largest socialist newspaper for a decade. He and Lenin argued over the correct way to institute socialism. The communists took over all businesses directly with disastrous results. The fascists set up “corporations”, really boards organized by industry, and stocked them with big businessmen and government bureaucrats who were in charge. Mussulini preferred the name corporatism to socialism for this arrangement. Small businessmen weren’t members of these boards and were controlled via heavy regulation. The Nazis copied this model in its entirety.
Around here, when big business and government become partners it’s known as crony capitalism.
Paul,
When I think of socialism, I think about what goes on in France or Western Europe in general. When I think of Communism I think of the USSR or Mao which are close to my thinking of what is fascistic but not quiet. I think (my own urban dictionary) fascism is a dictatorship where industry (corporations) agrees to fall in line with the whims of the dictator in order to accrue profits. BHO is colluding with corporations. The health insurance companies, GE, etc., to steer society into a fascist state. That’s my take.
Soviet democracy (sometimes council democracy) is a form of democracy in which workers’ councils called “soviets” (Russian for “council”), consisting of worker-elected delegates, form organs of power possessing both legislative and executive power.
The nomenklatura referred to the Communist party’s authority to make appointments to key positions throughout the governmental system, as well as throughout the party’s own hierarchy. Coextensive with the nomenklatura were patron-client relations. Officials who had the authority to appoint individuals to certain positions cultivated loyalties among those whom they appointed. The patron (the official making the appointment) promoted the interests of clients in return for their support. Powerful patrons, such as the members of the Politburo, had many clients. Moreover, an official could be both a client (in relation to a higher-level patron) and a patron (to other, lower-level officials).
Because a client was beholden to his patron for his position, the client was eager to please his patron by carrying out his policies. The Soviet power structure essentially consisted of groups of vassals (clients) who had an overlord (the patron). The higher the patron, the more clients the patron had. Patrons protected their clients and tried to promote their careers. In return for the patron’s efforts to promote their careers, the clients remained loyal to their patron. Thus, by promoting his clients’ careers, the patron could advance his own power. – from wiki
just so you get what system we are now in..
now to comment on this book.. 🙂
True communism can’t work, and experiments in socialism tend to end up in fascism instead.
My understanding is that hunting was popular in Germany pre WW2. At least among the upper class, many of the Luftwaffe elite were into hunting, starting with Goring at the top.
I suspect the general German attitude was similar to that of Swedes and Finns today; that is, many own guns for hunting, but the idea of using them for self defense does not come up, and is considered to be nothing short of CIDS modernization proposal.
Well, one thing that an alternative history does is get us to ignore the current history.
That is, we are attempting to model the present, by remodeling the past as a kind of gedanken.
The clever part of this argument is that it negates the salient parts of a current argument. Just assemble the what ifs. What if Hitler didn’t bother with getting guns, would kristalnacht occur? Or would it just read differently as shops being attacked responded and then were leveled rather than have their windows and other things broken. As bad as it was, it can always be worse.
The key part in all these inane musings are the “erasing of the potentials”. The temporal transposition does not work, because it tries to model the past incident from a perspective of some naé¯ve ignorance.
That is, given the political ignorance of what could be done with a registry, what would have happened. Sadly, this is inane as the cat is already out of the bag, regardless of the past, whether conscious or not, the CURRENT system is fully aware of these modeled potentials. They are NOT naé¯ve to the ancillary benefits whether or not the past leaders were cognizant of them or not.
Any current argument would HAVE to include the fact that current rulers have the benefit of post nazi analysis by not only the US, but also by soviets who detailed the reasons why and why not and the benefits and so on.
We forget what this system was like when it wanted to be different (and unlike ours it has more choice into what it is to appear like and therefore seem to be).
This system was so afraid of the power of resourceful humans, guns were definitely not allowed.
Stalin said, ideas were not allowed, we won’t let them have guns, why would we let them have ideas
Implying that ideas are more powerful than guns and to be feared even more. And so everything that could transmit IDEAS was halted… behind every gun is an idea… because behind every action other than perhaps convulsions and delusions, is an idea…
By imagining a third reich that does its thing a bit differently, we distort that history even more. We are already experts and making that history irrelevant and not fit, so distorting it will do what in the long run?
Whether or not the administration of Weimar, or post Weimar nazi Germany was cognizant, the East German STAZI, the soviet and post-soviet NKVD/KGB/FSB, Romanian DIE, and all the others DO know.
I said to read Hilmar von campe… even put some up… [von campe survived being hitler jugend… ]
How about reading Kitty Werthmann? Kos says nothing about Hilmar, but kitty?
They have LOTS of stuff trying to discredit her, and all that… and if they do that, then you know what she says is more right than not. After all, they don’t mobilize to silence the people who believe in UFOs, but they sure do try to put kitty and others into that camp…
Kitty Werthmann is 85 years old. She is a naturalized U.S. citizen. At 85 she stands tall, walks like a much, much younger woman and has no trouble explaining that Hitler was elected by 98% of Austrians because he gave a good speech.
the left HATES her…
Alan Colmes gave her his WingNut award
Salon is confused about the “political path” she is taking and also refers to her as a “wing nut.”
why the vitriole?
I Can do nothing about the length…
without becoming a censor (regardless of the reason why!)
Begin Loose Transcript:
In 1938 media reported that Hitler rolled into Austria with tanks and guns and took us over. Not true. The Austrian people elected Hitler by 98% of the ballot box.
How could a Christian nation, almost 98% Catholic , elect a monster like Hitler. The truth is, at the beginning, Hitler didn’t look or talk like a monster at all. He looked and talked like an American politician.
In 1938 Austria was in a very deep depression. We had one-third of our workforce unemployed. We had 25% inflation, and if you would borrow money from the bank, you pay 25% interest.
It was not unusual that my mother would feed, on average, 30 people a day, a bowl of soup and a slice of bread. People would come knocking on the door. They wanted to work. There were no jobs. The depression was so bad that we had riots in the streets.
We had two political factions fighting each other. The Communist Party was getting very powerful. So was the Nazi Party. Now when I speak of the Nazi Party, [it was] the National Socialist Party….that is where the word Nazi came from.
So we heard Hitler speaking in Germany. Germany had full employment. They had law and order and we had riots in the streets, and in Germany, people had a high living standard. They all drove the Volkswagen, you know, the little Beetle car and there was never anything said that anyone was being persecuted.
So when we had that unbelievable unemployment and the people were getting so desperate, they petitioned the government for a plebecite for an election, and that’s when we elected Hitler by a 98% of the vote by means of the ballot box.
So we got a new government, National Socializm, Nazi goverment. Of course, we had not idea what that would be. We just thought we were all going to live a high-standard of living like Germany.
Hitler promised us that within weeks we would have full employment, and he would feed the poor people. The Red Cross came in. Everybody was being fed. Everybody got something, and we were so grateful. We thought Hitler was our savior.
Oh yes, he was a very good orator. He gave very good speeches and haven’t we heard that here too? Haven’t we?
When we got the new government, nobody was elected anymore. Everybody was appointed, from the school board, the county commission, the city commission to the legislature and to the governors.
Hitler said, the best people are being appointed. We only pick the best people and we trusted him. We had no more elections — none whatsoever.
We also had “Regionalism.” Regionalism is to centralize the government. Centralization is Socialism. So Hitler said, we have to merge our 7 states into 4. That will save money and we would only have 4 governors. We thought “that’s a good idea.”
regionalizm is a key part of socialism..
its the delegation of powers to regional actors (patrons).
its the same system described i various ways.
but the key is to get X through its opposite…
how do you homogenize the population to a steel gray?
you use diversity, diversity everywhere… ie. dilute each other in every place you find culture… muddy it… mix all the colors together – erase the the rainbow and alternatives by evenly distributing them all over… yes, each tiny part will be diverse, consisting of one red part, one blue part, one green part, one yellow part, one orange part, one purple part, and from afar, a homogenous distribution.
continued next post
Art–A week or so ago I ran across a video of Werthheim’s talk that you are excerpting on Youtube, and it’s worth viewing the whole half hour plus talk.
Her personally witnessed history is reminiscent of our recent history, in which a smooth talking demagogue twice flam-flamed a majority of voters (my guess is that it would not have been a majority of voters absent a whole lot of cheating and manipulation of votes), persuading them to vote him into power, and he proceeded to “fundamentally transform” (not that many of us knew what that phrase really meant, or even with all the cheating I like to think that he would never have been elected in the first place) the country.
One of the chief features of this “transformation”; claimed good intent and benign sounding names for a broad and all inclusive campaign, actions, and policies that are anything but undertaken with good intent or are benign.
Some of the counter propaganda arguments at the comment links, claim that most of the Holocaust casualties were in Poland and other nations dominated by the Nazi military. Civilian arms did little to nothing to halt the advance of the Nazi war machine, so they claim it doesn’t matter what German anti gun human control laws were.
My response was that only by suppressing patriotic dissent in Germany were they able to get rid of people, now that they were disarmed, in order to mobilize the full nation for war. Without Germans being disarmed, too many people might have put up enough of a fight that the Nazis’ political control would not be strong enough to start oversea wars.
Isn’t that what the Left did to us in Vietnam to make us lose to the Soviets?
Yet the Left likes the use the argument that civilian arms won’t do anything against a MILITARY OCCUPATION, those little weasely Fs.
Don,
Yet it’s a big thing among the landed gentry–just like the hunts in England. There are even Jagdschlosser (hunting manors and they are indeed manors) that belong to the von families. This class element makes me wonder how many shopkeepers, factory workers, and farmers ever bothered learning to shoot much less spend money on guns.
now comes the nationalizers…
As a lobbyist in South Dakota, I found a bill — three times — to consolidate our 66 counties into 15. That’s centralization.
That’s Socialism. Take away LOCAL CONTROL.
With our new government, we got a lot of new laws.
We got the Equal Rights Amendment, a very good law, we thought.
Equal Rights for women. Haven’t we heard that here too?
The Equal Rights Amendment had two components — economically and socially. Economically, to redistribute the wealth of the country, and socially, to get all the women, the Moms, out into the workforce, into employment.
I have tried over a dozen times to show this and edumacate on this…
you cant stop whats happening if you cant stop feminism as a socialist movement that separates the sexes….
it leads to democide and normalizes bribing the public.
why?
because it seems that women cant resist the bribe
even if the deal requires they hurt their own families
Hitler got a lot of chops, political appointments, hundreds and hundreds of bureaucrats, and of course, he bought the Autobahn, the freeway.
The Moms were in the workforce. What do you think happened to the children? Hitler had an immediate remedy: child daycare centers so the State raised our children.
and so we have common core… and head start. and the left is promising the women childcare and no need for a husband…
too bad its a copy of 1933… and i cant convince
By economically redistributing the wealth, we had massive, massive welfare, because we had a guaranteed income. The government required that everybody be equal. Those who worked hard paid 70% taxes, [and those who didn’t] were getting the equal income like those who worked hard. That’s called Socialism.
exactly the same as 1933…
anyone want to discuss it?
facts only please…
Also, education was socialized — quickly, literally overnight. I was 12 years old. I was in 6th grade. I walked into my public school classroom — we had an excellent school system. We prayed in public school and we also had religious education twice a week. That all stopped overnight.
I walked into my classroom March 13, 1938. The crucifix was gone and there was Hitler’s picture, with the Nazi flag on each side. Our teacher said, “today we don’t pray anymore, we sing Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Allas” [Germany, Germany Above All] — the National Anthem, and she said, “we don’t have religious education anymore either we have physical education instead.” And on Sundays there would be National Youth Day and that would be compulsory — everybody had to attend. If our parents wouldn’t send us the first time, they would get a very stiff letter of warning; the second time they would pay a fine of the equivalent of $300 and the third time we didn’t attend, meant jail for our parents.
We couldn’t go to church anymore. The first two hours we had political education. Today I call it Political Indoctrination. We were being told not to listen to our parents. They were old-fashioned, didn’t understand the youth — only Hitler did. We were being totally indoctrinated. The rest of the day we had sports. We got all the equipment free. We got tennis rackets, golf clubs and the boys of age 16 got motorcycles so they could form a motorcycle squad. They were taken out to the airfield to fly gliders.
so much for the left pretending its different as hitler was christian… no…he wasnt… anyone want to discuss thule?
among other pagan things as the neo pagan movement also had its rebirth there as part of blodo and soil.
the EPA just pulled a blood and soil thing in wyoming.
You can imagine, at the end of the day we went back and told our parents how wonderful Hitler was…We argued with our parents all the time. We said, “look you don’t know anything. You are old-fashioned. You don’t understand us. They put a ridge between us and our parents.
yes. pitting the youth who know better… like obama telling the kids they have to educate their parents on things…
not the same, right?
My good mother, when my next school term came around, announced that she would take me out of these horrible public schools. She would enroll me in a private school with an excellent curriculum, but no fun. She packed me off and as we arrived at that big school with the 8 foot wall around it, and an iron gate, I bid my mother goodby and I almost hated her. She was a wise woman. She said, “one day when you grow up you will realize what I am doing for you.”
Needless to say, if my mother had not done that, today I would be a radical Marxist. On holidays I would go back home and visit my friends, and I did not like what I saw. Girls of age 16 were pregnant — to have babies for Hitler. Oh, Hitler wanted lots of babies. The lifestyle was very, very loose.
Hitler also gave us free radios and then he nationalized our radio station. We were told that if you listened to a foreign radio station it was a capital punishment [offense].
You don’t turn on Swiss radio or BBC. We only had one voice — the government.
Newspapers were censored before they hit the street.
Hitler also looted the Jewish banks and then he nationalized our banks.
Then he nationalized our only car industry. Austria produced a little car, a little bit bigger than a Fiat.
Hitler said we don’t need a Fiat, we have the Volkswagen.
He also nationalized our healthcare system.
Before Hitler, we had an excellent healthcare system, privately insured. We had good doctors, good hospitals. We had a lot of good research.
That all stopped.
It was free for everybody. I remember my brother-in-law was a family physician. He told me that when he would go to office at 8 am, 40 patients were waiting for him to care for.
People went to the doctor for everything and anything. He said it was like practicing medicine on a conveyor belt. He could take enough time for some patients because he was totally government controlled.
to families like mine that never forgot..
we watched as they slowly changed the US into nazi germany
only because it was better than communism to them
The government took away free enterprise, salaried the doctors and the hospitals, and many, many doctors left the country, because if you would need elective surgery, no emergency, you waited 18 months for a hospital bed.
Many doctors, including my own husband who did not want to practice medicine like his own brother had to, came to the United States.
He marvelled how wonderful our health care is, how wonderful our research is and how wonderful and modern our hospitals were. He said, “I hope [the U.S. system] it will never end up socialized medicine.
sorry the young people fightin fascism made fascism
The un-elected bureaucrats were writing all the rules and all the regulations. That’s socialism.
A lot of it applied to the farmers. The bureaucrats would go onto the land and tell the farmers what to plant, and how much he had to harvest.
They counted livestock and determined how much had to be turned into the government because our food was being rationed.
God help the farmer who butchered a pig for himself — would surely go to jail. Bureaucrats counted the chickens and decided how many eggs they had to lay. That’s socialism.
the delta smelt? you cant eat what you want… and onwards… its the SAME THING… the difference is that those experiencing it today, refuse to believe its the same as yesterday.
they are dumber than those in the past, as the past had no experience to be wary of, these are so stupid as to do the same thing with fore knowlege… and disbelief
Hitler wrote a book, My Struggle, Mein Kampf. Very few people read it. Had we read it we would have known what was coming, but the people were so busy with sports (that was everything — atheletic events were everything), but people did not read, and they did not read his book.
HAD WE READ IT…
the left in the US wrote a lot of things… for all tehse years i ahve pretty much begged people to read the key things.
why?
it would then get others to read it.
it was this kind of reading that allowed hayek tosave us the last time… but now, who would even read hayek?
how about the others?
no reading..
so history repeats as the ignorant this time are as ignorant as the last time… and fight to remain so!!!!!!!!!!!
[edited for length by n-n]
GUN REGISTRATION
We also had gun registration.
The Austrian people all had guns, but the government said, “guns are very dangerous. Children are playing with guns. Hunting accidents happen and we really have to have total control — safety.
We have to trace criminals and the only way is by the serial number of the gun.” We dutifully went to the police station and we registered guns.
Not long after registering our guns, they said “no, it didn’t help. The only way we can prevent accidents and crimes is for you to turn-in your guns at the police station, and then we won’t have any crimes or any accidents.” If you didn’t turn in your guns — capital punishment. So we turned in our guns.
same thing here..
the democratic critter that wanted similar gun laws requested the german ones be translated so they ar copied here. but out constitution got in the way…
not much any more
we cherry pick over the dead body now…
Hitler also nationalized our churches. He said those beautiful cathedrals need a lot of upkeep and restoration and there’s not enough money coming in by private donation on Sunday, so we have to have a church tax. When you paid your income tax, you paid a 2% church tax. Hitler controlled the churches. No pastor could speak out anymore.
anyone remember it was father coughlin the nazi priest that led the social justice movement of its day? his paper social justice? his antisemitic rants… the marching of the progressive fascists to madison square garden as american patriots – with pictures of george washington framing the stage?
look at what they are doing to christianity in the US…
Dictatorship didn’t happen overnight. It took 5 years, gradually, little by little we escalated up to a dictatorship.
i tried to explain this as well.
we are on the verge of closing the deal…
but most people dont realize we are one announcment away… with the only thing preventing it.. luck.
In February 2009 I was driving through Washington, D.C. as a lobbyist and I heard President Obama say anyone who is criticizing him should be reported to the White House, the Snitch Program. So be careful what you say.
Our borders were being closed. Nobody could get in. Nobody could get out. We were sitting ducks. That’s what happened to us.
In November 1985 I had the opportunity to go to Switzerland to attend the Summit Conference between President Reagan and President Gorbachev. My job was to accommodate the American women who went to support President Reagan. My other mission was to infiltrate the Communist Peace March. I went in disguise as a horrible looking hippie. I marched with Bella Abzug, the late Congresswoman, Jesse Jackson and Barbara Boxer. As we arrived at the Hotel Hilton for a press conference, I saw a group of people there who were not at the Peace March. I walked up to a woman and asked why she wasn’t at the March. She said, “well, we are all members of the German Communist Party and we couldn’t get legally into Switzerland, so we went over the mountains. Hence, all their muddy boots and torn jackets. I asked her to tell me more about what she was doing there. She said “we are supporting Premier Gorbachev. I asked her what her goals were. She said, “first we take Nicaragua, Honduras and then we go into Mexico.” I asked why Mexico — such a poor, corrupt country? She said that is our major goal, to take back what America stole from us, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas. I said that will take a lot of people. It sounds like a Revolution.
the healthcare bill splits us up the same..
if you earn money, you have to pay 500 for a plan
but if not, you can get the same plan for $1
if you want, you can get a lower deductible, for 800 a month
the other person, it will cost 4 dollars.
you can pay for obamacare with cans you collect…
with that in place, do you think anyone who is poor will not vote democrat?
think of it…
vote democrat and the others work for you and you get 1 dollar health insurance and lots of benefits.
now convence them to vote for freedom!!!
SAME AS HITLER… but not exactly the same…
but even that would be denied…
She said: “You Americans are so naive. Your churches are doing the work for us.”
It hit me like a ton of bricks — the Sanctuary Movement. There are a lot of churches who are bringing in illegals.
I said to her, “tell me, when is this event supposed to happen?”
She said, “it all depends on who your President is. Probably 2004 but most possibly 2008.”
Look at our President and look what is happening to our borders.
When I saw on television in Los Angeles, when they marched and they carried the Mexican flag and they trampled the U.S. flag, I realized, they are here.
When the people fear the government, that’s tyranny.
When the government fears the people, that’s…liberty.
“Keep your guns, and buy more guns.”
America is still a Christian nation, no matter what Obama says. God is still on the throne. He did not fail us in Austria when the Americans liberated us and He will save America.
too late…
we cant even list what they are doing let alone get in the way
Parker “And yes, Obama is not a socialist, he’s a fascist.”
fascism is the unholy birth of the marraige of capitalism and communism… the “third way”…
we do not know what obama is, as that remains to the time when things are seized. fascism is the starting base of communism… ie. germany voted in fascism.. half the country ended up communist…
ie. in a developed nation, fascism comes before communism as the revolution that would bring the latter would destroy that which it sought to take over.
ie. hitler had to do fascism in germany. if the communists one and took over, they would not have been able to defend themselves and so would have been absorbed into the soviet union.
note what happened to most of hitlers taken countries
stalin played it well..
teamed up to start the war…
then swtiched sides
then got all the countries.
not only that, but he also got the camps in those countries and FDR let him continue to use it in exterminating jews… (yes, russia kept at it, but what did we care?)
parker
“When I think of socialism, I think about what goes on in France or Western Europe in general. When I think of Communism I think of the USSR or Mao which are close to my thinking of what is fascistic but not quiet.”
basically you think puppies dont grow up to be pit bulls…
that the one form is the child of the other…
this despite having things inthis realty like butterflies and caterpillers…
the child does not look like the man…
the difference you see is due to how much power… a puppy is not that powerful… neither is a tiger cub for that matter… but let them grow up and reach full size and power, and then try to stand up to them…
you wont run from a puppy,
but i bet you would fail to stand tight againt a rotweiller
parker, this shows you how far away from reality you are. you made a fruedien slip
I think (my own urban dictionary) fascism is a dictatorship where industry (corporations) agrees to fall in line with the whims of the dictator in order to accrue profits.
if its a dictatorship, agreement is not in the game.
in a dictatorship, you dont agree to fall into line
oh. and the german word for that falling into line is gliechshaltung.. pc speech… politically correct… party line… party mentality…. etc…
Wolla Dalbo…
yes, her speech and other stuff is good to hear…
and i have detailed most of what they woudl say years ago, but given its hitler, its negated out of the gate..
unless its ovens, jewishpeople dont get alternatives
its too easy to disbelieve alternatives until you cant any more
i warned everyone with all the same details and never changed my message in the whole time…
you can be sure that since they finished the exterminatino job, they are going to make sure someday if things roll around…
given the way people behave, i wonder how many germans sided with the nazi’s because they had no more hope in their fellow peoples?
Isn’t that what the Left did to us in Vietnam to make us lose to the Soviets?
yes…
Art, it doesn’t matter whether parker thinks socialism or communism is a rotteiller, pit bull (with lipstick), or a puppy.
What matters is the military, political, and economic force humans can bring to the table in the fight against evil and zombies.
Also, if you want your “message” to be treated seriously, you might want to think about changing your capitalization scheme. What is it, in Soviet Russia you don’t capitalize sentences, Sentences Capitalize you? On the right? On the bottom?
Don’t be so proud of your unchanging message. There’s a reason why it ain’t breaking through. Soviets did a better job of messaging than that.
All sort of advocacy groups produce statistics that, mirabile dictu, supposedly illustrate the “fact” that their particular issue is the major scourge/calamity they say it is. One way of avoiding facing such statistics, when you suspect that they will contradict your view of the problem, is to just not collect them, to just not have a category to put them in, or a check box on a police or hospital intake form.
You might also notice that while crimes involving guns get big play in the MSM and sometimes this reportage goes on for days or even longer, instances in which a licensed civilian uses his gun to stop a crime or to apprehend the perp are only infrequently reported, and are then quickly deep sixed.
In the debate over guns and their use, a lot of the major organizations that should be reporting/collecting statistics on licensed civilian gun owners use of their guns to stop crime apparently just don’t for fear, I’m guessing, of what those statistics might show.
So, for instance, while it’s a piece of cake to look up the number of crimes involving guns in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports, try and find any reliable, comprehensive state or national level tally of the number of times legally armed citizens have stopped crimes from happening, stopped the perp from getting away, or wounded him. I’ve never seen such national or state level statistics, and there’s a reason for that.
Wolla Dalbo:
You might also notice that while crimes involving guns get big play in the MSM and sometimes this reportage goes on for days or even longer, instances in which a licensed civilian uses his gun to stop a crime or to apprehend the perp are only infrequently reported, and are then quickly deep sixed.
This is quite true, and there’s not necessarily anything sinister about it. Crimes committed with guns are just that, crimes, and tend to get reported. Crimes prevented using a firearm (e.g. by brandishing a gun and causing the would-be perp to flee) are therefore not crimes; overworked police departments often refuse to pursue them, or even report them, if an actual crime was not committed.
Statistics vary wildly as to how often, in the United States, a crime is prevented using a firearm (often without a shot being fired). The NRA reports upwards of 200,000 crimes prevented in this manner per year. The Brady Campaign reported, some years back, that it was closer to 80,000 or 90,000 per year. Regardless, any such numbers are (and must be) estimates.
Daniel in Brookline–
You said-
“Statistics vary wildly as to how often, in the United States, a crime is prevented using a firearm (often without a shot being fired). The NRA reports upwards of 200,000 crimes prevented in this manner per year. The Brady Campaign reported, some years back, that it was closer to 80,000 or 90,000 per year. Regardless, any such numbers are (and must be) estimates.”
My point exactly.
Such statistics wouldn’t be wildly varying “estimates” if police, hospital personnel, and insurance agents were on the lookout for and had to report, as a matter of law and routine, incidents when a legally armed citizen was able to prevent or stop a crime, hold, detain, or wound a perp.
I suggest that if the government, if the States, if the police were in favor of an armed citizenry, they would be interested in and trying to collect such statistics, in order to bolster the case for such an armed citizenry as a positive benefit to society.
These potential “collectors” may well be “busy,” but I think the fact that they don’t try to “capture” this data has more to do with not wanting to bolster the case for an armed citizenry than it has to do with the difficulty of the task, or with being just too “busy” to collect such information.
What I believe is a similar situation obtains in the case of collecting statistics on world-wide Muslim terrorists attacks.
You would think that, say, DOD, or the State Department, or the CIA would publish such a publicly available tally but, to my knowledge, they don’t
As far as I know, only one individual’s website attempts such a publicly available tally (see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/– such attacks standing this morning at 22,314 world-wide since 9/11)–not the government, and I suggest it is for the same reason as with not collecting statistics on legally armed citizens stopping crimes; the powers that be don’t want to know these numbers, don’t want us to know, or to bolster the case for perceptions or actions that the government disagrees with and disapproves of.
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Apologize for OT but related: I cannot recommend highly enough Ian Kershaw’s two volume biography of Hitler, the first volume titled Hubris and the second Nemesis. The one volume condensation is good but not as interesting because of the omitted details.
Kershaw describes his objective in the preface (fascinating in itself) and it (the purpose) is not polemical and is achieved. I will not spoil for those who might read the books.
The parallels between Hitler’s success and the narrative driven, hate-based, competence-free politics of the Left are striking.
I suppose that means (among other things) that human nature is human nature, and there is nothing new under the sun – – two propositions disdained both by Hitler and the Left.
Since the topic is Hitler-related, I will note that both Obama and the Chinese are technically fascists. Both seek control over the nominally-privately owned means of production.
This strikes me as a more workable system than Communism. Communism will dictate one and only one direction for production: the party line. Fascism reduces the degrees-of-freedom for any industry choice compared to Capitalism, but the number of choices is still greater than one.
As such, fascist-controlled state enterprises will continue to limp along far after Communist enterprises cease to function.
Nazi Germany’s gun-control was absolutely Libertarian compared to Stalin’s USSR.
Though he seldom spoke about the Holocaust, one of my late father’s recurring themes was shame that he survived but did nothing. The last conversation I ever remember having with him about it, he was 93 or 94, was about just that. He said, “If only I’d had a gun I could have done something.” I said, “But Dad isn’t a live dog better than a dead lion?” His response was almost instant, “Maybe, but I would have taken a few of the bastards with me.”
The great Solzhenitsyn said the same thing about the Gulag. I can’t find the quote but to paraphrase, there were very few of them but many of us. If we’d only fought back when they came in the night there would never have been a Gulag.
I don’t know how widespread gun ownership was in Germany even preWWII. Most Germans lived in villages and farmers went out to their fields, unlike the dispersed farms we know in America. Pigs and cows were kept in barns attached to the houses in the villages. Much of the wooded land was likely to belong to the nobility, so the average guy might not have had a place to hunt. Even today, most hunters belong to clubs and hunt in groups. The pay a rental fee to use the hunting grounds and are required to care for the grounds and manage the wildlife. It’s all much more organized than in the US.
It is always better to resist and die than to surrender arms. “Maybe, but I would have taken a few of the bastards with me.” If 3 million (1%) resist and take just one of the bastards with them it is game over for the fascists. And yes, Obama is not a socialist, he’s a fascist.
In flyover country we tend to know local law enforcement agents and local military people on a personal level. There is never more than 2 degrees of separation. We know their families and we know where they live, shop, worship. etc. These people are not going to go gestapo simply because they know no mercy will be given to them or their families. Anyone from the outside showing up (DHS) will be a target. Its not going to be lock down in Boston after the pressure cooker bomb. That dog in the middle of nowhere does not hunt.
expat: German hunting is organized and regimented, a very far cry from what we do here, and the huntables are managed also, if I understand correctly. Except perhaps for boars.
Parker, fascism is a variant of socialism. Mussolini was a Marxist and editor of Italy’s largest socialist newspaper for a decade. He and Lenin argued over the correct way to institute socialism. The communists took over all businesses directly with disastrous results. The fascists set up “corporations”, really boards organized by industry, and stocked them with big businessmen and government bureaucrats who were in charge. Mussulini preferred the name corporatism to socialism for this arrangement. Small businessmen weren’t members of these boards and were controlled via heavy regulation. The Nazis copied this model in its entirety.
Around here, when big business and government become partners it’s known as crony capitalism.
Paul,
When I think of socialism, I think about what goes on in France or Western Europe in general. When I think of Communism I think of the USSR or Mao which are close to my thinking of what is fascistic but not quiet. I think (my own urban dictionary) fascism is a dictatorship where industry (corporations) agrees to fall in line with the whims of the dictator in order to accrue profits. BHO is colluding with corporations. The health insurance companies, GE, etc., to steer society into a fascist state. That’s my take.
Soviet democracy (sometimes council democracy) is a form of democracy in which workers’ councils called “soviets” (Russian for “council”), consisting of worker-elected delegates, form organs of power possessing both legislative and executive power.
The nomenklatura referred to the Communist party’s authority to make appointments to key positions throughout the governmental system, as well as throughout the party’s own hierarchy. Coextensive with the nomenklatura were patron-client relations. Officials who had the authority to appoint individuals to certain positions cultivated loyalties among those whom they appointed. The patron (the official making the appointment) promoted the interests of clients in return for their support. Powerful patrons, such as the members of the Politburo, had many clients. Moreover, an official could be both a client (in relation to a higher-level patron) and a patron (to other, lower-level officials).
Because a client was beholden to his patron for his position, the client was eager to please his patron by carrying out his policies. The Soviet power structure essentially consisted of groups of vassals (clients) who had an overlord (the patron). The higher the patron, the more clients the patron had. Patrons protected their clients and tried to promote their careers. In return for the patron’s efforts to promote their careers, the clients remained loyal to their patron. Thus, by promoting his clients’ careers, the patron could advance his own power. – from wiki
just so you get what system we are now in..
now to comment on this book.. 🙂
True communism can’t work, and experiments in socialism tend to end up in fascism instead.
My understanding is that hunting was popular in Germany pre WW2. At least among the upper class, many of the Luftwaffe elite were into hunting, starting with Goring at the top.
I suspect the general German attitude was similar to that of Swedes and Finns today; that is, many own guns for hunting, but the idea of using them for self defense does not come up, and is considered to be nothing short of CIDS modernization proposal.
Well, one thing that an alternative history does is get us to ignore the current history.
That is, we are attempting to model the present, by remodeling the past as a kind of gedanken.
The clever part of this argument is that it negates the salient parts of a current argument. Just assemble the what ifs. What if Hitler didn’t bother with getting guns, would kristalnacht occur? Or would it just read differently as shops being attacked responded and then were leveled rather than have their windows and other things broken. As bad as it was, it can always be worse.
The key part in all these inane musings are the “erasing of the potentials”. The temporal transposition does not work, because it tries to model the past incident from a perspective of some naé¯ve ignorance.
That is, given the political ignorance of what could be done with a registry, what would have happened. Sadly, this is inane as the cat is already out of the bag, regardless of the past, whether conscious or not, the CURRENT system is fully aware of these modeled potentials. They are NOT naé¯ve to the ancillary benefits whether or not the past leaders were cognizant of them or not.
Any current argument would HAVE to include the fact that current rulers have the benefit of post nazi analysis by not only the US, but also by soviets who detailed the reasons why and why not and the benefits and so on.
We forget what this system was like when it wanted to be different (and unlike ours it has more choice into what it is to appear like and therefore seem to be).
This system was so afraid of the power of resourceful humans, guns were definitely not allowed.
Stalin said, ideas were not allowed, we won’t let them have guns, why would we let them have ideas
Implying that ideas are more powerful than guns and to be feared even more. And so everything that could transmit IDEAS was halted… behind every gun is an idea… because behind every action other than perhaps convulsions and delusions, is an idea…
By imagining a third reich that does its thing a bit differently, we distort that history even more. We are already experts and making that history irrelevant and not fit, so distorting it will do what in the long run?
Whether or not the administration of Weimar, or post Weimar nazi Germany was cognizant, the East German STAZI, the soviet and post-soviet NKVD/KGB/FSB, Romanian DIE, and all the others DO know.
I said to read Hilmar von campe… even put some up… [von campe survived being hitler jugend… ]
How about reading Kitty Werthmann? Kos says nothing about Hilmar, but kitty?
They have LOTS of stuff trying to discredit her, and all that… and if they do that, then you know what she says is more right than not. After all, they don’t mobilize to silence the people who believe in UFOs, but they sure do try to put kitty and others into that camp…
Kitty Werthmann is 85 years old. She is a naturalized U.S. citizen. At 85 she stands tall, walks like a much, much younger woman and has no trouble explaining that Hitler was elected by 98% of Austrians because he gave a good speech.
the left HATES her…
Alan Colmes gave her his WingNut award
Salon is confused about the “political path” she is taking and also refers to her as a “wing nut.”
why the vitriole?
I Can do nothing about the length…
without becoming a censor (regardless of the reason why!)
Begin Loose Transcript:
regionalizm is a key part of socialism..
its the delegation of powers to regional actors (patrons).
its the same system described i various ways.
but the key is to get X through its opposite…
how do you homogenize the population to a steel gray?
you use diversity, diversity everywhere… ie. dilute each other in every place you find culture… muddy it… mix all the colors together – erase the the rainbow and alternatives by evenly distributing them all over… yes, each tiny part will be diverse, consisting of one red part, one blue part, one green part, one yellow part, one orange part, one purple part, and from afar, a homogenous distribution.
continued next post
Art–A week or so ago I ran across a video of Werthheim’s talk that you are excerpting on Youtube, and it’s worth viewing the whole half hour plus talk.
Her personally witnessed history is reminiscent of our recent history, in which a smooth talking demagogue twice flam-flamed a majority of voters (my guess is that it would not have been a majority of voters absent a whole lot of cheating and manipulation of votes), persuading them to vote him into power, and he proceeded to “fundamentally transform” (not that many of us knew what that phrase really meant, or even with all the cheating I like to think that he would never have been elected in the first place) the country.
One of the chief features of this “transformation”; claimed good intent and benign sounding names for a broad and all inclusive campaign, actions, and policies that are anything but undertaken with good intent or are benign.
Some of the counter propaganda arguments at the comment links, claim that most of the Holocaust casualties were in Poland and other nations dominated by the Nazi military. Civilian arms did little to nothing to halt the advance of the Nazi war machine, so they claim it doesn’t matter what German anti gun human control laws were.
My response was that only by suppressing patriotic dissent in Germany were they able to get rid of people, now that they were disarmed, in order to mobilize the full nation for war. Without Germans being disarmed, too many people might have put up enough of a fight that the Nazis’ political control would not be strong enough to start oversea wars.
Isn’t that what the Left did to us in Vietnam to make us lose to the Soviets?
Yet the Left likes the use the argument that civilian arms won’t do anything against a MILITARY OCCUPATION, those little weasely Fs.
Don,
Yet it’s a big thing among the landed gentry–just like the hunts in England. There are even Jagdschlosser (hunting manors and they are indeed manors) that belong to the von families. This class element makes me wonder how many shopkeepers, factory workers, and farmers ever bothered learning to shoot much less spend money on guns.
now comes the nationalizers…
I have tried over a dozen times to show this and edumacate on this…
you cant stop whats happening if you cant stop feminism as a socialist movement that separates the sexes….
it leads to democide and normalizes bribing the public.
why?
because it seems that women cant resist the bribe
even if the deal requires they hurt their own families
and so we have common core… and head start. and the left is promising the women childcare and no need for a husband…
too bad its a copy of 1933… and i cant convince
exactly the same as 1933…
anyone want to discuss it?
facts only please…
so much for the left pretending its different as hitler was christian… no…he wasnt… anyone want to discuss thule?
among other pagan things as the neo pagan movement also had its rebirth there as part of blodo and soil.
the EPA just pulled a blood and soil thing in wyoming.
yes. pitting the youth who know better… like obama telling the kids they have to educate their parents on things…
not the same, right?
sorry the young people fightin fascism made fascism
the delta smelt? you cant eat what you want… and onwards… its the SAME THING… the difference is that those experiencing it today, refuse to believe its the same as yesterday.
they are dumber than those in the past, as the past had no experience to be wary of, these are so stupid as to do the same thing with fore knowlege… and disbelief
HAD WE READ IT…
the left in the US wrote a lot of things… for all tehse years i ahve pretty much begged people to read the key things.
why?
it would then get others to read it.
it was this kind of reading that allowed hayek tosave us the last time… but now, who would even read hayek?
how about the others?
no reading..
so history repeats as the ignorant this time are as ignorant as the last time… and fight to remain so!!!!!!!!!!!
[edited for length by n-n]
GUN REGISTRATION
same thing here..
the democratic critter that wanted similar gun laws requested the german ones be translated so they ar copied here. but out constitution got in the way…
not much any more
we cherry pick over the dead body now…
anyone remember it was father coughlin the nazi priest that led the social justice movement of its day? his paper social justice? his antisemitic rants… the marching of the progressive fascists to madison square garden as american patriots – with pictures of george washington framing the stage?
look at what they are doing to christianity in the US…
i tried to explain this as well.
we are on the verge of closing the deal…
but most people dont realize we are one announcment away… with the only thing preventing it.. luck.
Parker “And yes, Obama is not a socialist, he’s a fascist.”
fascism is the unholy birth of the marraige of capitalism and communism… the “third way”…
we do not know what obama is, as that remains to the time when things are seized. fascism is the starting base of communism… ie. germany voted in fascism.. half the country ended up communist…
ie. in a developed nation, fascism comes before communism as the revolution that would bring the latter would destroy that which it sought to take over.
ie. hitler had to do fascism in germany. if the communists one and took over, they would not have been able to defend themselves and so would have been absorbed into the soviet union.
note what happened to most of hitlers taken countries
stalin played it well..
teamed up to start the war…
then swtiched sides
then got all the countries.
not only that, but he also got the camps in those countries and FDR let him continue to use it in exterminating jews… (yes, russia kept at it, but what did we care?)
parker
“When I think of socialism, I think about what goes on in France or Western Europe in general. When I think of Communism I think of the USSR or Mao which are close to my thinking of what is fascistic but not quiet.”
basically you think puppies dont grow up to be pit bulls…
that the one form is the child of the other…
this despite having things inthis realty like butterflies and caterpillers…
the child does not look like the man…
the difference you see is due to how much power… a puppy is not that powerful… neither is a tiger cub for that matter… but let them grow up and reach full size and power, and then try to stand up to them…
you wont run from a puppy,
but i bet you would fail to stand tight againt a rotweiller
parker, this shows you how far away from reality you are. you made a fruedien slip
I think (my own urban dictionary) fascism is a dictatorship where industry (corporations) agrees to fall in line with the whims of the dictator in order to accrue profits.
if its a dictatorship, agreement is not in the game.
in a dictatorship, you dont agree to fall into line
oh. and the german word for that falling into line is gliechshaltung.. pc speech… politically correct… party line… party mentality…. etc…
Wolla Dalbo…
yes, her speech and other stuff is good to hear…
and i have detailed most of what they woudl say years ago, but given its hitler, its negated out of the gate..
unless its ovens, jewishpeople dont get alternatives
its too easy to disbelieve alternatives until you cant any more
i warned everyone with all the same details and never changed my message in the whole time…
you can be sure that since they finished the exterminatino job, they are going to make sure someday if things roll around…
given the way people behave, i wonder how many germans sided with the nazi’s because they had no more hope in their fellow peoples?
Isn’t that what the Left did to us in Vietnam to make us lose to the Soviets?
yes…
Art, it doesn’t matter whether parker thinks socialism or communism is a rotteiller, pit bull (with lipstick), or a puppy.
What matters is the military, political, and economic force humans can bring to the table in the fight against evil and zombies.
Also, if you want your “message” to be treated seriously, you might want to think about changing your capitalization scheme. What is it, in Soviet Russia you don’t capitalize sentences, Sentences Capitalize you? On the right? On the bottom?
Don’t be so proud of your unchanging message. There’s a reason why it ain’t breaking through. Soviets did a better job of messaging than that.
All sort of advocacy groups produce statistics that, mirabile dictu, supposedly illustrate the “fact” that their particular issue is the major scourge/calamity they say it is. One way of avoiding facing such statistics, when you suspect that they will contradict your view of the problem, is to just not collect them, to just not have a category to put them in, or a check box on a police or hospital intake form.
You might also notice that while crimes involving guns get big play in the MSM and sometimes this reportage goes on for days or even longer, instances in which a licensed civilian uses his gun to stop a crime or to apprehend the perp are only infrequently reported, and are then quickly deep sixed.
In the debate over guns and their use, a lot of the major organizations that should be reporting/collecting statistics on licensed civilian gun owners use of their guns to stop crime apparently just don’t for fear, I’m guessing, of what those statistics might show.
So, for instance, while it’s a piece of cake to look up the number of crimes involving guns in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports, try and find any reliable, comprehensive state or national level tally of the number of times legally armed citizens have stopped crimes from happening, stopped the perp from getting away, or wounded him. I’ve never seen such national or state level statistics, and there’s a reason for that.
Wolla Dalbo:
You might also notice that while crimes involving guns get big play in the MSM and sometimes this reportage goes on for days or even longer, instances in which a licensed civilian uses his gun to stop a crime or to apprehend the perp are only infrequently reported, and are then quickly deep sixed.
This is quite true, and there’s not necessarily anything sinister about it. Crimes committed with guns are just that, crimes, and tend to get reported. Crimes prevented using a firearm (e.g. by brandishing a gun and causing the would-be perp to flee) are therefore not crimes; overworked police departments often refuse to pursue them, or even report them, if an actual crime was not committed.
Statistics vary wildly as to how often, in the United States, a crime is prevented using a firearm (often without a shot being fired). The NRA reports upwards of 200,000 crimes prevented in this manner per year. The Brady Campaign reported, some years back, that it was closer to 80,000 or 90,000 per year. Regardless, any such numbers are (and must be) estimates.
Daniel in Brookline–
You said-
“Statistics vary wildly as to how often, in the United States, a crime is prevented using a firearm (often without a shot being fired). The NRA reports upwards of 200,000 crimes prevented in this manner per year. The Brady Campaign reported, some years back, that it was closer to 80,000 or 90,000 per year. Regardless, any such numbers are (and must be) estimates.”
My point exactly.
Such statistics wouldn’t be wildly varying “estimates” if police, hospital personnel, and insurance agents were on the lookout for and had to report, as a matter of law and routine, incidents when a legally armed citizen was able to prevent or stop a crime, hold, detain, or wound a perp.
I suggest that if the government, if the States, if the police were in favor of an armed citizenry, they would be interested in and trying to collect such statistics, in order to bolster the case for such an armed citizenry as a positive benefit to society.
These potential “collectors” may well be “busy,” but I think the fact that they don’t try to “capture” this data has more to do with not wanting to bolster the case for an armed citizenry than it has to do with the difficulty of the task, or with being just too “busy” to collect such information.
What I believe is a similar situation obtains in the case of collecting statistics on world-wide Muslim terrorists attacks.
You would think that, say, DOD, or the State Department, or the CIA would publish such a publicly available tally but, to my knowledge, they don’t
As far as I know, only one individual’s website attempts such a publicly available tally (see http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/– such attacks standing this morning at 22,314 world-wide since 9/11)–not the government, and I suggest it is for the same reason as with not collecting statistics on legally armed citizens stopping crimes; the powers that be don’t want to know these numbers, don’t want us to know, or to bolster the case for perceptions or actions that the government disagrees with and disapproves of.
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