What happens to a society when its young people don’t want to have sex?
You read that right. I didn’t say, “don’t want to get married” or “don’t want to have children.” It’s “don’t want to have sex.”
Japan may be about to find out.
As you might imagine, the “don’t want to have sex” crowd doesn’t include all the young people, not by a longshot. But it’s a worrisome percentage, especially considering that this is an age group where the blood usually runs hot. As you also might imagine, the phenomenon involves more women than men, although the number of guys is not insignificant:
A survey in 2011 found that 61% of unmarried men and 49% of women aged 18-34 were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier. Another study found that a third of people under 30 had never dated at all. (There are no figures for same-sex relationships.) Although there has long been a pragmatic separation of love and sex in Japan ”“ a country mostly free of religious morals ”“ sex fares no better. A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 “were not interested in or despised sexual contact”. More than a quarter of men felt the same way.
The article doesn’t say who these people are. Is it mostly the highly educated and more well-to-do? Or the less so? The answer matters in terms of the demographic makeup of the next generation; will it be mostly the poor and uneducated who are having kids, how many will they tend to have, and are they having them in or out of wedlock?
A sex and relationship counselor in Japan has this to say:
“Both men and women say to me they don’t see the point of love. They don’t believe it can lead anywhere,” says Aoyama. “Relationships have become too hard.”
I very much doubt they’re actually any harder than they used to be. But their rewards are a great deal less, especially in Japan, so the cost-benefit analysis is quite different.
The article goes on to describe the reasons: women in the workforce whose promotion chances end at marriage and who often quit after having children because Japanese firms demand such unusually long hours of its employees, hosts of young people living with parents, ease of single living, and immersion in the world of computers rather than entering the messy fray of human contact.
There are other possible reasons that the article doesn’t mention. I merely list the factors that come to mind; one could easily write a book on the subject:
(1) In a society with less differentiation between the sexes, where the roles and demeanor of men and women become more alike, some of the “otherness” that enhances and feeds sexual passion wanes.
(2) Marriage has been stripped of most of its usual purposes. We used to need it economically, and to have children or acceptance as a productive and full member of society. Now marriage has been cut loose from those moorings. No wonder young people are confused as to why they should do it at all. And since sex can lead to one or other of the members of the couple pushing marriage, it’s unsurprising that people would be less inclined to engage in sex as well. Best not to start down that particular slippery slope.
(3) When nearly all is permitted (sexually, that is), the prospect of sex loses its forbidden fruit aspect and becomes more ho-hum. Same for the postponement of sex that used to come when premarital sex was more frowned upon: it acted as an aphrodisiac.
(4) Computer sex is not only ubiquitous and easy, it’s habit-forming. One of the physiological truths about sex is that the things we get used to when young—the fantasies, the turn-on triggers—can become very difficult to change. If people grow up using computers for sex and find it satisfying and simple, why would they stop?
(5) The problem is merely a subset of a host of problems caused by changing mores regarding men and women, and of society as a whole and loss of purpose in life. Some of this is obviously related to the societal changes that come from feminism, but some may be related to the decline of religion (although I’m not at all sure that has too much of an effect in Japan) and of nationalism. More Japanese used to feel they had a special national destiny, and although that idea led to some very bad stuff—World War II comes to mind—it also helped give the society a cohesiveness and purpose. The idea of having sex and children for the good of the country and society would be laughed at by today’s youth, but it was a not-unimportant motivator in the past.
No wonder the result is more widespread ennui.
[Hat tip: DrewM at Ace’s.]
They just involuntarily joined this movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement
It seems that the value of relationships has been diminished. Sex without a relationship is OK for 12 year olds. Women have been told they can have it all without making hard choices. Of course the women most affected by the BS are those working 2 part time boring jobs who don’t have time to build relationships with their kids or their husbands. Credentials are the most important thing in life, followed by status symbols, such as the “right” pocketbooks.
I must say that my 6 months here has made me very sad. I’ve seen the academically elite and some wealthy relatives and I’ve seen the much less well off struggling (or not) to raise kids and make ends meet. There seems to be little shared between the 2 groups. I will need some time to digest my experiences after I get home next week.
Just curious: when you say “here” you mean you’ve been in Japan?
No: the US as opposed to Germany, where I have settled into a nice life with my husband and some very sensible friends. We are all beyond the age where we care about status. None of us has perfect partners, friends, or family, but it doesn’t matter because we are much happier with them than we’d ever be without. And there are no snobs in my circle.
“None of us has perfect partners, friends, or family, but it doesn’t matter because we are much happier with them than we’d ever be without. And there are no snobs in my circle.”
That sounds nice! I don’t want to ask you to reflect before you’re ready, but what about it made you sad? The stratification you mentioned?
who often quit after having children because Japanese firms demand such unusually long hours of its employees
What I’ve witnessed is that being a corporate woman is not something most females in Japan find particularly satisfying. They want to get married and have a family life. If it’s a choice between getting married and staying single while pursuing a corporate career, most women choose the former over the latter.
For the business, it is better that people who have split priorities quit or find a part time job, as maternity leave + expenses is hard to manage financially. In Japanese corporate life, “a corporate job” is much like a life time or semi life time thing. What used to be called blue or white collar jobs in the US, where people expected loyalty from the company in return for 10, 20, 40 years of working for them.
Since reverse gender roles is still a minority in Japan, women are still expected to do “family orientated” things such as house maintenance and kid raising.
You can notice how in the article it demonstrates Western liberated women ideology.
At the bottom, it’s a risk vs rewards assessment. Western cultures, including Westernized Japan, extend the period of maturity via consumer products. Basically, people don’t have to grow up until they want additional responsibilities. The more people who don’t want to grow up, the more there is a consumer demand and the more businesses that supply it. If marriage was beneficial to the ancients, it was because one side had something to offer and the other side had a counter offer, thus a trade.
In modern times, people are married to their jobs or to the state, producing taxable income. Income or production that would otherwise have been reserved for a single other individual. So unless individuals have a particularly strong motivation to setup a marriage (such as high level politicians, wealthy castes, or noble lineages), the resource drain, investment, and emotional stress usually is too much for the potential rewards.
Having kids and dealing with a family requires growing up. It’s far easier just to live by your own rules, at your own pace, especially since maturity doesn’t accelerate very quickly in ultra high civilizations. They will mature over time, but that time may be biologically beyond the mating period. They may not mature until they are 35 or 40 or 45.
The economy and their life, can restrict their independence.
While the Guardian author makes negative note of Japan’s traditional roots and social pressure, it’s not the social pressure that is stopping procreation. Japan’s been even more socially oppressive in the centuries before. It’s the economy, dominated by democracy and high taxes, that is the chief root of the problem. When individuals don’t have resources, and don’t have frontiers to go explore/mine for more resources, they are stuck in this entertainment land of Western civilization until they grow up. And given how unappealing maturity is, many choose a forever period of childhood, essentially. They cannot take care of themselves, let alone care of a spouse or family. This riddle cannot be solved until people find a purpose in life, one that isn’t attached to the government or to an economy based upon ultra taxation.
The guardian article is too biased in its piecing together of polls and interviews for any conclusive result to be produced. As usual.
Don’t know what’s worse, a society where large numbers of young people are foregoing sex with others, or one where we have “Twerking” and Miley Cyrus. Neither one has much to say for it when it comes to keeping a country alive and well.
Japan is upside down (as we will be sooner or later). Government debt to GDP ration is 200+%. Japan has experienced nearly 20 years of stagnation. Upward mobility in Japan is rare and career expectations for those under 30 are dismal. Who wants to procreate under those circumstances…. almost nobody.
John Donne,
Yes it’s the social stratification. Well-off kids don’t even know kids whose father is a blue collar worker or whose mother has 2 part-time jobs just to pay the bills. I’m afraid that both groups of kids are not learning basic life skills–one because getting into a top college is the ultimate life goal and the other because the parents haven’t the time to teach them or because they feel it is more important to supply them with the status symbols of the wealthy kids. I fear Charles Murray is right.
To counter act the somewhat dubious nature and intent of the Guardian’s author, here is a the flip side of government spending in Japan: their military growth.
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/10/20/japans-sexy-sailor-contest-boosts-popularity-of-military/
The Ministry of Defense was recently reconstituted and I’ve been hearing some interesting rumours about their training programs.
The Japanese themselves understand that their country is rotting, partially because social traditions have yet to be fully corrupted by Westerners calling themselves liberalism, feminism, or “we’re from the government/US to help you”.
That’s similar to how patriotic Americans view America itself. But they as individuals can’t do much about it. Law allows them to protest, but that’s little worth when the powers that be are not affected by such protests. The problems with Western style governments goes deeper than protests or policy disagreements. Japan at least has the justification that their tax money goes for police, security, and various other things.
What’s the justification of Chicago for their taxes again? Americans when they don’t like where they live, can still try to move out, even though they take the ghetto with them culturally. That does not change the nation itself though for the better, it just postpones things until the next gen. Or until the black crime hordes catch up to the nearest neighborhood and sets up a drug/gun shop.
So Japan has a solid core that will resurge, if given a chance, same as the US. The question is whether anything will put the Finishing Blow on either nation’s patriots before that resurgence.
I think that child-rearing has been devalued and women have come to see it as a prison. They have tried to find meaning in the workplace and in so doing have made men feel less needed.
When coupled with gender-biased outcomes in divorce, paternity suits and child custody, men have been left unsure of what is wanted or expected of them (except to be cash-cows for the milking). Mainstreaming of geek culture has made it more acceptable to play games and watch porn instead of getting a girlfriend or wife.
This attitude then feeds back to the women, who view men as louts.
I’m not sure womens’ equality is compatible in the long-term with societal stability. I acknowledge that it’s a terrible thing to relegate an entire sex to second-class status but it seems equality is running up against base human nature. Maybe it’s a case of “what’s good for the individual isn’t necessarily good for society.”
I once noted to a female history professor (who was conservative, and on friendly terms with me) that societies that were achieving gender equality were the ones that collapsed. She seemed troubled and didn’t really have a response.
Matt,
It’s not the equality; it is that feminists think women have to be the same as men. Also, the role of homemaker includes making a home for your spouse, not just the children. This doesn’t necessarily mean women can’t work outside the home or that men can’t share chores. It’s just that women traditionally have been the ones who made the house a place where the family felt at home.
“the black crime hordes”
Seriously?
@expat
“…it is that feminists think women have to be the same as men”
— I don’t think the Japanese women mentioned in the article hold that view. Feminism didn’t seem to appear much at all.
I like to say “people are bastards”…maybe societies can only be held together by necessity. The end always seems to come after an unprecedented run of prosperity.
WTF? (no pun intended)
JD, Maji.
shooting down your reasons:
1. Japan, at least from my impressions, is not some post-feminist mecca where gender roles have been obliterated. In fact, I suspect Japan is one of the few developed countries that still has a bit of the old ‘Mad Men’ view of gender roles between men and women.
2. ‘Marriage stripped…’ yea looking quickly at the web Japan’s illegitimacy rate stands very low to other developed nations. Something like 2% in 2007. Not saying that all of marriage is about having children, but if ‘stripping marriage of its usual purpose’ isthe cause of young people loosing interest in sex, then American kids should be a lot less interested in sex than Japanese kids.
3. I’m pretty sure Japan is not puritanical about pre-marital sex, but I’m also not seeing much evidence that it’s your goto country for pre-marital sex.
4. Granted computer sex is ubiquitous and easy. Japan is known for being tech centered. But I’m skeptical that porn is all that cutting edge technology anymore or that Japan has a lock on it.
5. Yes mores are changing, they always are. That’s one of those things that sounds like it’s saying something very profound but when really examined it’s not saying much of anything.
My nomination for an explanation: crappy survey and lost in translation. I’m noticing you have a culture and language very different from English yet a survey being widely reported by English language press by people who I suspect are not very familiar with Japan. I wouldn’t be surprised if the questions or answers were simply mistranslated in English. For example, perhaps the quarter who ‘despised’ sexual contact were simply trying to say they weren’t sexually active at the moment and that came out as ‘despised’. Or perhaps speaking about one’s own sex life is frowned upon which produces a false modesty when asked about it (“Ohhh I have no interest in such things sir!”).
I doubt the Left or the Guardian combined can think outside their marxist cultural limitations. Not so much lost in translation as lost in Leftust Utopian racial prejudices.
One should not expect the truth or intellectual honor from evil.
Unless those here can read the survey questions in the original format, and parse the relative context, they are merely believing in somebody else’s “claims” that they are the “gateway” to truth. With predictable consequences for a Western civilization.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/10/23/are_japanese_people_really_having_less_sex_than_anyone_else.html seems to be a much less sensational take on it.
Long story short the survey results are not actually that far out of line with results in most other places, the word “or” is doing far too much work in the original story (it’s not unusual to find a good portion of single people who aren’t interested at this moment in a relationship, that by itself isn’t a rise of an army of sexless asexuals who despise the very idea of sex). While Japan is interesting demographically, the story suffers from the whle “Japan is a place of sexless nerds or people with strange fetishes” meme
Most foreigners get the same kind of news about Americans, filtered through 2 or more layers of Leftist, domestic, foreign propaganda points.
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I love reading a post that can make people think. Also,
many thanks for allowing for me to comment!