Zimmerman: not guilty
They just announced the verdict: not guilty.
I am stunned and pleased. Justice has been served. My cynicism—which had continued throughout this case—turned out to be incorrect, which makes me very happy.
Of course, Zimmerman is a marked man. But still, this is the best possible result. There will be no appeals; the legal part of the case is over.
It will be interesting—to say the least—to see what the reaction will be. I am extremely relieved, though. If this has been an ordeal even for us as observers, how exponentially greater must have been the ordeal for all those who were more deeply and personally involved, from the moment the situation escalated to the tragic point where Trayvon Martin was killed and George Zimmerman ended up standing trial for his murder.
[ADDENDUM: Not Twelve Angry Men, but Six Courageous Women.
Listening to Angela Corey speak right now, her statement seemed decent enough at this point, quite conciliatory and non-inflammatory. Certainly unlike her earlier rabble-rousing.]
[ADDENDUM II: I take it back a bit about Corey; the prosecutors (and Corey) have now been going on about how it is that Zimmerman was really guilty. Tough. But I suppose that’s par for the course and to be expected. They can’t do anything now about the verdict, thanks to double jeopardy and the fact that a prosecution can’t appeal.
I’m looking forward to hearing what the defense has to say. They did a good job, and along with Zimmerman must have been sweating bullets these past couple of days.]
[ADDENDUM III: Defense attorney Don West says, “I’m thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty.”
Defense attorney Mark O’Mara closes the question period by excoriating the press for their earlier treatment of Zimmerman.]
That’s great news. I was really worried about it. America is not quite gone yet, but it’s hanging on by its fingernails.
And the FSA can burn down their own neighborhoods all they want. I don’t give a sh*t.
I wonder if Angela Corey will be out of a job soon. She sure deserves to be sacked. So does the judge.
This was the correct verdict. However, they’re not done with him.
Al Sharpton is already on MSNBC talking about the civil suit against GZ and the resurrection of the federal investigation investigation for criminal violation of civil rights. Lots of anti-gun talk too.
Holder will file a civil rights suit next week, bet on it…
This was what I was hoping for, wish it was over but I fear it isn’t.
Wonderful. I’d forgotten what it was like not to have my worst fears confirmed.
Mizpants:
Ditto.
As it should be. People have an unalienable right to Life. Martin did not have a right to assault Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been unarmed, Martin would today be accused of attempted murder or worse. It wouldn’t be the first time that inflicted head trauma resulted in an individual’s death.
As for what happens next, people will reveal their true nature, and if that nature is incompatible with Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, then those people should each and individually be held accountable for their actions. This is especially true for activists in the public and private sectors, who have made certain that our society would remain firmly entrenched in the past.
Mizpants:
Amen to that.
Whew, I am happily surprised to find there is justice in Florida. I do believe Martin’s parents will sue GZ for damages in civil court and hope justice is served once more. I’m not so sure Team Obama will want to meddle further. There is a lot of down side to slapping GZ with a civil rights suit after 6 women (a major ‘victim’ class for the democrats) found him not guilty.
Its a good day for America. We haven’t had one of those for a long time.
While happy with the outcome so far; I’m too cynical to believe that it is over.
There will most likely be a civil suit and possible “civil rights violation” too good for the left to pass up on.
Zimmerman and his family will still have to deal with this nightmare for years to come. But, at least this part is now over (this part never should have been in the first place – but, my saying that here at Neo’s is preaching to the choir at church)
Charles: I agree that it’s not over. But a very very important part of it is over.
Corey deserves to be Nifonged.
I am so relieved. Now it really is time to ask the questions I posed in my little fantasy yesterday. When I worked for the welfare dept (decades ago), a client had a son who was about 6 and who wasn’t allowed to go to school because he had horrible allergies that caused pustules all over his skin. He really looked like a little monster. But when his mother asked him to come out and meet me, I saw his smile and his lighted eyes. The house where they lived stunk from the furnace fumes, and the mother could not get into the horrrible tile-floored public housing he needed. I pushed the housing authority to bump them to the top of the waiting list (something his doctors couldn’t accomplish), and within a few weeks they moved. A very short time later, his mom called to tell me his skin had cleared up and he was in school.
When I heard about Trayvon, I thought of this little boy and wondered whether he had made it. I love boys, and I hate to see their lives wasted by all the malignant cultural influences in this country. Take the racism victim chains off these kids and let them flower.
My thoughts are also with George Zimmerman. May he find peace, because he still has to live with the knowledge that he killed a person. And may he find a place to live securely.
As the Obama administration will not allow him to be placed in protective custody, someone with the financial means needs to start up a fund that we could all contribute to, so as to assist the Zimmerman family in a private version of when the Feds place someone in the Witness Security Program. Zimmerman and his family needs to immediately disappear, before he is murdered.
So a question.
With Al Sharpton and Benjamin Jealous (NAACP) now in the racial demagogic pulpit (and others to follow) is it likely that the race card is seen by the public (that’s not the MSM, mind you) as increasingly ineffective, stale and hollow? One can only cry “Wolf!” so many times. Are people like Sharpton, Jealous and their ilk becoming the equivalent of buggy whip manufacturers in the age of automobiles?
The truth of the matter is the Justice has not been served. We all know the same prosecution that was forced to try him didn’t want to arrest him in the first place. The same jury we glorify was not one of his peers or a diverse enough group of people to rule objectively. Of course both sides agreed on this jury because the prosecution never wanted to accuse GZ in the first place, let alone win. We hear over and over that this is not a civil rights issue, but this is a blatant lie. Fist fights occur an incredible amounts of time, not to say that they’re excusable, but that is what the court should be ruling on.. an aggravated assault by TM, not his murder. Instead, GZ became judge, jury and executioner.
Unfortunately this will not be the last we hear of this, not only from the riots to come, but from the people who know they can now get away with following a man, fighting him, then shooting him upon losing the fight. This case will set a president for discriminatory acts to go unpunished. May god bless all who engage in open discourse but I am baffled by any supports of GZ’s verdict.
This was not justice.. Not even close.
I have to admit that it was very satisfying to hear Mr. O’Mara answer that very last question at the press conference and remind the media that they were fed a narrative and ran with it, ran right over GZ, tried to make him a monster.
Felt good to hear that truth too.
Just wonderful. I am surprised for several reasons. I salute six courageous women. I do hope that they will not suffer because of their honesty and courage.
I thought Angela Corey was about what I expected. I mentioned before that my brother-in-law, a retired Judge in Duval County, Fl, does not hold her in high regard; and that is a putting it diplomatically.
I thought the Defense team was predictably classy in their press conference. O’Mara is a first class individual, and obviously a really fine lawyer. On the other hand I really like Don West.
West summed it all up in one sentence: the jury prevented a tragedy from becoming a travesty.
I have predicted a federal hate crime charge against George Zimmerman if he were acquitted. I pray that I was wrong.
Bless you Zimmerman family. You have been through hell, and I hope that your future is peaceful.
Truth:
You’ve certainly got your own version of Truth. Too bad it doesn’t conform to the facts.
Neo-neocon,
Strong words but what have I stated that was not fact? I notice you dont point out anything in particular
That idiot Geraldo Rivera (Jerry Rivers, orig.), yesterday intoned, “This is the Civil Rights Trial of the Century.” Well, yeah, jackanapes, but not in the way You mean.
Had to share this, from Godfather Politics. Booker T. Washington had a great deal to say about how black leaders exploit their own race for financial and political gain. The following is from Washington’s My Larger Education (1911):
“There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs – partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.
“A story told me by a colored man in South Carolina will illustrate how people sometimes get into situations where they do not like to part with their grievances. In a certain community there was a colored doctor of the old school, who knew little about modern ideas of medicine, but who in some way had gained the confidence of the people and had made considerable money by his own peculiar methods of treatment.
In this community there was an old lady who happened to be pretty well provided with this world’s goods and who thought that she had a cancer. For twenty years she had enjoyed the luxury of having this old doctor treat her for that cancer. As the old doctor became – thanks to the cancer and to other practice – pretty well-to-do, he decided to send one of his boys to a medical college.
After graduating from the medical school, the young man returned home, and his father took a vacation. During this time the old lady who was afflicted with the “cancer” called in the young man, who treated her; within a few weeks the cancer (or what was supposed to be the cancer) disappeared, and the old lady declared herself well.
“When the father of the boy returned and found the patient on her feet and perfectly well, he was outraged. He called the young man before him and said: ‘My son, I find that you have cured that cancer case of mine. Now, son, let me tell you something. I educated you on that cancer. I put you through high school, through college, and finally through the medical school on that cancer. And now you, with your new ideas of practicing medicine, have come here and cured that cancer. Let me tell you, son, you have started all wrong. How do you expect to make a living practicing medicine in that way?’
“I am afraid that there is a certain class of race problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public.”
Truth:
Why would I spend hours arguing with you point by point and reviewing facts that are in the public domain? Read some of my twenty-four posts so far, and myriad comments, on the Zimmerman case, and you’ll probably find some of the answers. Or read the day-by-day trial summaries at Legal Insurrection that I’ve recommended and get up to speed, if you care to. Watch all the videos of the trial there, too. If you actually did that, you’d probably see that your scenario about the sequence of events resulting in the death of Trayvon Martin does not align with the evidence.
It’s Saturday night. The verdict is in. The jurors—who did see and hear the evidence—have decided, and in my opinion they decided very very correctly.
Beverly:
Although I certainly don’t watch Rivera much, I have seen a bit of his commentary on the trial and as far as I know he thought Zimmerman was innocent, and that it was a case that should never have come to trial that came to trial only for political reasons, and which featured prosecutorial misconduct.
Rivera’s been on the wrong end of lots of issues, but I don’t think he has been on the wrong side of this one.
Truth,
There is no evidence that Zimmerman started a fight with Martin. None, zero, nada. Martin’s autopsy showed no marks on him other than a scuffed knuckle and the gunshot wound. The evidence strongly supports Martin sucker punching Zimmerman. Martin was a small time thug.
The Leftwing Prison Planet Media have been pushing a completely outrageous, gonads-to-the-wall Lie about this case. I heard a young black couple in the grocery store tonight saying, “But how can they let [Zimmerman] get away with Murder?”
Because that’s what the loathsome Leftwing Media have been saying, relentlessly. All Lies, All the Time.
Monica Crowley had Brent Bozell on her radio show today, for his book COLLUSION: how the Leftwing Media threw the election for Obozo. He said, “You know, I really thought I knew how bad they were. But even I didn’t have any idea!”
She told him she’d been approached by a woman, late 50s, who recognized her on the street in NYC: the woman worked for one of the Big Three Networks’ Evening “News.” She told Crowley, “There’s always been liberal bias. But since 2008, it’s been unbelievable: when the News editorial staff gets together for the afternoon meeting to decide what goes on the air, they have actually said, ‘What can we do to protect Barack Obama?'”
She added that “They are suppressing — censoring — the news now. And THAT’s new.” The woman is a conservative, and told Crowley she’s finding it increasingly difficult to survive in that environment.
It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Thank God. I agree the verdict is the right one.
George Zimmerman’s brother Robert is on CNN right now, and doing a remarkable job of handing it back to the interviewer. They should have him out on the talk shows more often, because he does an excellent job of expressing rationally George Zimmerman’s side of the tragedy, and humanizing George and his family. Very articulate and intelligent.
Truth @11:24,
Interesting ‘handle’, must be nice to always know the Truth.
No, the Sanford Chief of Police did not want to arrest Zimmerman. The State of FL yielded to political pressure from the Obama administration and the prosecution and judge so enthusiastically persecuted Zimmerman that they repeatedly committed grave judicial and prosecutorial misconduct.
This was NOT a fist fight. They didn’t square off and start trading blows. Martin sucker punched Zimmerman, got him down on the ground, pinning Zimmerman and started pummeling him.
Zimmerman found himself near helpless, in a potentially life threatening situation, being pummeled by an attacker whom he had every right to suppose might well be a criminal and who gave no indication that he would stop before Zimmerman was gravely injured or even killed.
In fact, Martin continued to hit Zimmerman even after Zimmerman started to yell for help, showing no mercy.
This situation is the essence of when lethal self-defense is justified.
Your categorizing a clear act of self-defense as illegally acting as judge, jury and executioner obviates the right to self-defense itself.
You’re essentially declaring that if we can’t prove, after the fact, that our life was in mortal danger, then we have no right to life.
Tonight in no uncertain terms Geraldo said the case never should have gone to court. That is the consensus of prosecutors and judges I’ve seen quoted.
Neo writes, “[m]y cynicism–which had continued throughout this case–turned out to be incorrect, which makes me very happy.”
I suppose it’s a matter of defining one’s terms, but I say your cynicism was correct. It was correct to fear the worst, given all the brainwashing and bla bla bla that’s gone on in this once-great nation these past couple of decades.
*This* time, the worst was not realized. This time. A minor setback for the bad guys, who will nonetheless exploit it in very ugly ways. Let’s watch and see (and that, too, is cynical).
HLN just polled their “jury” of 12 citiizens. Ten disagreed with the verdict.
Truth(?):
an aggravated assault by TM, not his murder. Instead, GZ became judge, jury and executioner.
And if Zimmerman had been killed by the assault that would have been okay? Sometimes in defending yourself, another person dies. An execution would have been a direct shot upon being confronted, not a shot during a struggle while being struck multiple times. Someone being killed does not a murder make.
From what I saw and read of the trial, there should have not been one, certainly not for 2nd degree murder. I thought adding the manslaughter charge was the prosecution trying to get an out since they knew they couldn’t get 2nd and wanted something.
I am sorry Martin was killed, but from the evidence I have seen the jury was correct in their determination. I don’t know what “Justice” you want or what evidence you think that was presented that would have given it to you in the form of a 2nd degree murder conviction.
In my opinion, given the exact same evidence and testimony and only reversing the position Martin and Zimmerman with Martin living and Zimmerman dead, Martin should never been charged and justice for me would have been served by his acquittal as well. There was too little evidence available against either for me to make any other determination. And I would have felt the same sorrow if the deceased were reversed.
Thre have been a bunch of good comments on this thread. All, that is except for “Truth”, who started out wrong by not understanding the original investigators and prosecution decided not to bring charge on Zimmerman. They accepted his story was truthful.
Second, it turns out the Justice Department sent people down to help with the protests. That is way out of bounds. That forced Governor Scott to appoint Corey who bypassed the grand jury and and filed 2nd degree murder charges. It was abundantly clear from the prosecution’s case they had no case.
Third, we find out Core’s office, after the case went to trial, fired the IT guy who got the photos off Martin’s phone. The IT guy checked and found Corey and the prosecution had not turned those over to the defense as required by law. Corey and her office are dishonest. I would like to see Corey brought before the bar and, if she is as guilty as I think, disbarred.
I shared the fear of many that the jury would be judging based on fears outside of the actual trial. I was particularly concerned they would “compromise” on manslaughter. Prosecution should not be allowed to throw charges against the wall like that. If they think it is 2nd degree murder, do not allow a lesser charge.
I doubt the Holder and the Justice Department will get involved any further. They can see a losing criminal case and they do not want to be associated with another loss.
The civil suit will also fail since the jury did choose self defense.
One final point: A police dispatcher is only a dispatcher. He is not a sworn officer and his instruction carry zero weight. But, even then, Zimmerman was already outside the car. Martin had plenty of time to reach home. Clearly he decided to come back and attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman did not engage. Zimmerman was engaged.
eeyore Says:
July 14th, 2013 at 12:09 am
A commenter at Ace of Spades said earlier this afternoon that if Trayvon Martin had been an adult Neighborhood Watch volunteer and George Zimmerman a hotheaded 17-year-old punk, most conservatives would have sided with the black dude.
Liberals have a hard time wrapping their minds around that, given their habitual projection on matters of race.
Mr. Frank
I have never stated that he started the fight only that he was in one after following a MINOR, who did nothing wrong..
Neo-Neo,
This is your blog, I respond, and you ask me to read more of your non-sense. I rather not, but thanks for continuing the support of hatred in the US
Also, Zimmerman ‘phoned 311; Martin ‘phoned a girl friend, but not the police. Who had fear for his life? What I saw of the trial showed a prosecutorial team and a judge who stepped well outside the rules of evidence and of procedure, who withheld exculpatory evidence from Zimmerman’s defense team. I realize that the only numbers “liberals” like are manipulated statistics, but, Martin had four minutes to go home, and used the time in other ways. I’m sorry the boy is dead, and that he does not appear to have had much raising, but all of that happened before George Zimmerman ever encountered him.
LOL!
rickl Says:
July 14th, 2013 at 12:19 am
Purely a mind exercise but I actually mean if given the same evidence and situation, Martin the kid and Zimmerman the adult, and Zimmerman had died from his head wounds and Martin claimed self-defense, I would still have not thought there enough evidence for any murder charge against Martin. The self-defense may have been strengthened if Martin had claimed he had seen the gun and had to fight to keep it from being used.
My problem is that the evidence really was terrible to be used for either side in a murder trial, no eye witnesses, forensic screwups, rainy weather that would wash evidence away… I would have agreed if in this case reversal Martin had been acquitted and would have preferred him not to be charged at all.
In another thread I said the evidence has to drive the case and there was so little that was presented by the prosecution that the defense was able to turn in their direction. The prosecution knew this by not speaking about the evidence during their closing.
Perhaps Z was guilty, but not by the evidence and testimony I saw and heard.
That LOL was for Truths hatred remark.
I will take all the people that are butthurt about this verdict seriously when they address the daily killing of black children in Chicago.
I am also tired of the “Child” crap! He was old enough to join the military with his parents permission!
UN-Truth
Just because you don’t want to look at the evidence which is really what is needed for conviction, it doesn’t mean this blog is
continuing the support of hatred in the US.
Your comment shows a level of hatred since you don’t want to see anything that goes against YOUR view of Justice. I just wrote if Martin had lived and Zimmerman died, the evidence against a murder charge for him would have been just as paltry.
Saying Zimmerman was a murderer just because Martin died in the course of a fight shows you have no idea of the law, of evidence or anything other than your view of Justice has not been followed.
I’m also relieved that Zimmerman was found not guilty. I will enjoy that sense of relief for tomorrow – a day that I don’t watch any TV or read any newspapers.
Tonight I offer prayers for the Martin family. I don’t know what they expected, but I know that even if Zimmerman had been convicted of some charge, they would have awakened the next day and realized that it hadn’t brought Trayvon back – hadn’t affected their grief. The death of a child is truly unbearable, no matter how it occurs. The grief subsides in time, but never really ends. With all the drama associated with this case, it can only have made their psychic wounds fester even more. I pray that they will find some peace.
Let us hope this is the end, but like many other commenters, I don’t think it is. There are probably more acts coming.
Truth:
You have quite the sense of ironic humor in choosing your moniker.
Generally agree with most of comments, although I’m not so sure that Obama/Holder won’t pursue some alleged violation of Martin’s civil rights angle. They’re looking at a potentially very bad outcome next election cycle and a slow burning civil rights trial extending well into next year – while frustrating to many on the right and clearly a trampling of Zimmerman’s civil rights – will help raise the voter participation rates on the left nicely.
When a neighborhood has a rash of break-ins people have every right to accost people they don’t know in the area. What Martin should have done is walk up to Zimmerman, smile, introduce himself and explain he’s staying with his dad over in house #’s whatever. He had a choice and his choice was to take offense that Zimmerman even looked at him and he basically violently attacked him. Unfortunately for him Zimmerman was armed and used his weapon to protect himself.
Why was Martin so on edge – so prepared to attack someone who just looked at him wrong? After all it’s not like Zimmerman was stalking him with gun drawn looking to shoot him dead.
Could it be that Martin listened too many times to people like Sharpton who interpret the world through a very tinted lens priming kids like Martin to see every action of whites (he racially profiled Zimmerman as a ‘cracker’) as heavy with malicious intent?
Truth
I rather not [read Neo’s many blogs on the Zimmerman case, as Neo suggested Truth do], but thanks for continuing the support of hatred in the US. I rather not, but thanks for continuing the support of hatred in the US.
And thank you for continuing the support of willful ignorance worldwide. Ciao, payaso.
This is what a fairly high-ranked minister and administrator in my denomination posted on Facebook: “I am shocked and sickened with the news of the acquittal of Zimmerman.” No other explanation, no discussion. She has apparently taken it down now, but I’ve lost a whole lot of respect for her. It amazes me how some people are proud of their empathy for the less fortunate, but have no empathy for someone like George Zimmerman.
On another thought– I was reading the Wikipedia account of the case. There was only 2-3 minutes between when Zimmerman hung up with the police dispatcher and when the police arrived. Of course, Zimmerman could not have known if they would be there in 5 minutes or in 30 minutes. In that time, a neighbor (who may have been the one who testified about seeing Zimmerman being beaten), called out to him that he was going to call 911, and went into his house to do so. Of course, he was under no obligation to get in the middle of the fight, but what if he had tried to grab Martin? The report said that Zimmerman said he had repeatedly called out for help, but no one came to help him.
So many little things could have changed, and Martin would still be alive.
Truth Says:
July 14th, 2013 at 12:24 am
You are aware, I’m sure, that “minors” commit murder, rape, assault, robbery, and countless other crimes EVERY SINGLE DAY?
A 40 year old adult is much less likely to be a criminal than a 17 year old “minor”. Minors are much more likely to act on impulse and often don’t have a well-developed conscience or sense of their own mortality. 40 year olds are less likely to be criminals because the young hotheads tend to be attrited through death or prison.
“Did nothing wrong”? Among civilized people, if one man punches another and knocks him down, the fight ends there if the other person doesn’t get back up. Martin could have cold-cocked Zimmerman and walked home, and he would be alive today. Instead, he chose to get on top of Zimmerman and keep on hitting him and banging his head into the sidewalk. That’s a bad mistake if your intended victim is armed.
Truth is another blundering leftist idiot. It is too easy to shoot down his talking points so no one should bother. Truth you are in deep, rip tide waters here. Better look to safer waters that will allow you to crawl, gasping for breath to a rocky shore. There are plenty of places for a liberal idiot to find sanctuary. Go forth He/Se/it.
I didn’t follow this case particularly closely, but I followed it enough to know that it was pretty obvious the jury was going to acquit. The prosecution’s case was not presented well, the evidence was not conclusive beyond a reasonable doubt, whether or not Zimmerman was guilty. I thought in particular the evidence that Zimmerman was relieved when hearing that the altercation had been videotaped was rather exculpatory. Regardless of who initiated the altercation, the prosecution’s case was rather weak.
However, Zimmerman did, without dispute, pursue Martin, who hadn’t been doing anything wrong. Had Zimmerman not been engaged in his vigilante behavior, Martin would be alive today.
Anyone who calls himself “Truth” is not primarily concerned with the truth. For actual humans in the real world, finding the truth requires a vivid awareness that one may not already possess it.
I believe the four-minutes of silence the defense used to demonstrate the amount of time Martin had to get to his father’s home was extremely effective.
Feeling so proud of these women on the jury. Good on ’em. Maybe they were put off by the Judge’s attempt to shift the charges to some ridiculous version of child abuse and to her obvious investment in the trial’s outcome. The big loser here is the media, which tried to intimidate the public about coming violence over a not-guilty verdict. I see where MSNBC is now playing up “spontaneous peaceful demonstrations” around the country, including that haven of peace, Chicago.
Mitsu Says:
July 14th, 2013 at 1:36 am
That’s funny. I did follow it closely, and I didn’t think the verdict was obvious at all, given the political pressure.
Has anyone asked why didn’t TRAYVON MARTIN, who apparently perceived himself as being stalked by a “creepy-ass cracker,” call 911?
With that being said, (1) even if TM were “a thug,” he probably didn’t deserve to die (I write “probably” because I don’t KNOW exactly what happened there*), and (2) even if TM didn’t deserve to die, that does not mean that Zimmerman committed any crime, or at least that the prosecution came anywhere close to proving that Zimmerman committed a crime.
*As Toy pointed out:
Mitsu: “Had Zimmerman not been engaged in his vigilante behavior”
First, the proximate cause of the Zimmerman’s self defense was Martin attacking Zimmerman, not Zimmerman tracking Martin.
Second, the characterization of “vigilante behavior” points to the chief social-cultural rift in this case, more than race, guns, or self-defense.
What if Martin was white and Zimmerman had spotted him in his neighborhood giving off a heroine addict, willing to do anything to pay for his next hit vibe, instead? Then what if white Martin had similarly attacked the neighborhood watchman who was tracking him? I think the same tragic sequence except without the racial theater.
To many, including me, Zimmerman acted as a responsible, concerned, selfless *man* of his community. He acted as a good neighbor, one who will look out for yours, and not just his own while putting his head down, muttering “none of my business” when something doesn’t look right. Zimmerman acted with the essence of community as a good neighbor with a sense of duty and responsibility.
That Zimmerman aspired to be a cop speaks well of him. But the relevant fact is that he didn’t act like a cop with Martin. He acted like a dutiful neighborhood watchman.
Zimmerman didn’t catch Martin in the act, but Martin did give off a vibe that set off Zimmerman’s spidey sense, and accurately so. It turns out Martin was, in fact, an established troublemaker, delinquent, and thug. For a man who has a sense of duty about his community, not just his own property, it’s common sense to at least keep track of someone who’s setting off warning bells until that person shows he’s not a threat. Which is what Zimmerman did – he kept track of Martin. The rise in crime in the neighborhood and ineffectiveness of police response and prevention to the crime only further justifies Zimmerman’s heightened self-help.
Zimmerman did what a good neighbor does. He didn’t attack Martin. Martin attacked him. If Zimmerman was wrong to track Martin, then we unravel our fundamental social-cultural bonds of community in our identity as American men. We abandon self-help and help-our-neighbor in confronting urgent community problems and, instead, defer our masculine duty to the state, even when the state’s means, in this case the police, have proven ineffective at addressing that problem.
Finally, I oppose the notion that Zimmerman’s suspicion of Martin was racist and wrong. Again, it turns out Martin was a thug. If people repress their intuition, people will place themselves in danger. I know because it happened to me.
I was coming home from a HS function on the subway after midnight. A group of black teens about my age boarded the car on my side. They gave off a ‘street’ vibe. The other passengers immediately either exited the car or moved to the far end of the car. I stayed in my seat because I thought everyone who moved to avoid the group was racist. And I was anti-racist. My principled decision was to stay in my seat next to the group. I refused to assume ill of the group just because they were black and ‘street’. Long story short … I was beaten up and mugged by them.
The other passengers who sensed the danger and moved to protect themselves *before* the group assaulted and robbed me didn’t help me. Zimmerman tried to help his neighbors.
Neo: “Not Twelve Angry Men, but Six Courageous Women.”
When I read that the backgrounds of the jury was heavy on the wife and mother, I thought Zimmerman had a chance.
Traditionally, wives and moms expect their husband, the father of their children, to be the protector of the family as a fundamental duty, up there only with husband as provider. As a neighborhood watchman, Zimmerman was doing his husbandly duty.
I thought it was unlikely the jurors would be comfortable declaring their husbands would be criminals for doing a fundamental duty.
There were 2 trials going on here. In the other, unspoken one the White Man’s justice system was the defendant, the prosecution & judge the defense, and the black community was the jury. The Supreme Court will be the mob.
Securing GZ’s conviction would have been a nice bonus, but the real mission was to convince the jury in the streets that the system cared about the death of a black kid, even to the point of running a kangaroo court. Will this appease the race-arsonists like Sharpton, the media& the Obama administration? Ha!
NOT GUILTY!!!!!!
We were all on tenterhooks and now a collective sigh of relief!!!!
I hope Zimmerman has his life back and I hope this sends a message to the world that you can still get a fair deal in America even with Obama in office and Holder as AG.
These women did not cave to the regime, the leftist media and pressure from a racist black community. They let the evidence speak.
Let freedom ring!
I agree with Ann Althouse that acquittal will provide Jesse Jackson et al with better material for future political enterprises. Also, it won’t just be about race, it will be about guns.
The American Media continues to shame itself.
I see that even FOX is still fanning the flames this morning….
Last night before the verdict, CNN had a ‘Time elapsed in deliberations!” clock running on the lower right-hand corner of the screen. Like a moon launch or the countdown of a News Years Eve crowd at Times Square.
Post-verdict, it was particularly satisfying, in a schadenfreude-y sort of way, to savor the sullen disappointment at MSNBC (which quite honestly I had never tuned into before — what a bizarro world they live in there!).
And I guess everyone saw this poster at Instapundit last night?
Yes, it was satisfying to watch those racebaiters writhe.
I never had a dog in this fight.
I was content to let the legal system do its job, and I’m content with accepting the verdict of the court.
Criminal cases don’t belong in the political arena.
Amy,
Without opening the link, I agree with your agreement with Althouse. They will use the verdict as evidence that the whole society requires the fundamental changes they demand. It’s fuel to fire up the movement for social-cultural and legal changes. What those changes are is only limited by their imagination. Their narrative for the revolution is established and the verdict only adds to it.
Defeat due to ‘injustice’ by the Establishment fires up activists. It’s their element and they’re masters at manipulating it. Folks who wish to preserve the laws, rights, and greater moral position that Zimmerman represents are advised to gear up their own activism to counter a range of attacks across the spectrum.
Having Al Sharpton become the face of the modern day democrat party, the Department of Injustice and the Obama administration would probably be a good thing for Republicans. What better icon than a known liar and race hustler. Just morphing Obama, Holder, et al into Sharpton would make a very salient point about the politics, and what it is based on, of these people.
Last point for now regarding guns: A top NRA argument for the 2nd amendment is the utility of guns for blacks after the Civil War who were compelled to self-help and defend themselves, their families, homes, and communities from threats in the context of real harms and unreliable, neglectful, or worse, law enforcement.
Similar conditions compelled Zimmerman.
Eric,
Regarding the 5:43 am comment,
I couldn’t have said it any better myself.
“Unfortunately this will not be the last we hear of this, not only from the riots to come…” – Truth
Some talking heads have hinted at that, but they salivate at the thought of a ratings boost. And the fear-mongering unright unReverend Sharpton has talked of it, because race war is his biggest source of income.
But it still pisses me off that people who call themselves “liberal” continue to assume that people of color can’t handle bad news without resorting to violence.
If there IS violence, those arrested ought to have their names and cities of origin posted.
Screw you, “Truth”. You wouldn’t recognize a fact if it slapped you upside the head.
As for any future civil case being brought by Traygone’s parents, it seems Florida law grants immunity from civil wrongful death suits when the person being sued is found to have acted in self-defense. This is why at first the race baiters wanted Zimmernman arrested, to get to a civil trial no matter the verdict. Then they read the law and realized Zimmerman needed to be found guilty before they could sue, so the race-baiters pulled out all the racism stops.
Now, it appears the next time Zimmerman will be in court is when Eric the Red’s racist Dept. of Social Injustice takes him to court for violating Traygone’s civil rights. And I do think Zimmerman violated Traygone’s civil right — to be a thug. Oh well. Too bad, so sad.
Oh, and I was most relieved to be wrong about a jury ‘compromise’ conviction for manslaughter.
I turned on “Today” at 0814. The first image I saw was that of the smiling face of 12 year old Trayvon Martin. The false narrative continues. Will it ever end?
The mass rioting predicted across the conservative media will not materialize (though there will be isolated incidents) but I do believe the verdict in this case does open the door for a series of “self-defense” murders by aggrieved parties.
The Zimmerman precedent stretches the definition of self-defense to its outer limits and relies on the legal peculiarity that in such cases, without eyewitnesses, the state is left to prove a negative that is based primarily on the defendant’s state of mind.
It would have been virtually impossible to convict Zimmerman under circumstances in which the jury takes presumed innocence as an absolute.
While there will be some Martin supporters who feel like rioting, there will almost certainly be others who seek to create a corresponding test case in which the victim is white and the perpetrator black.
I’m a little surprised the conservatives here can’t see that coming…
For something utterly depressing on the entire case (not the verdict), read Mark Steyn: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/353322/dagger-heart-justice-mark-steyn
I think we need another Magna Carta Movement in America. It is time for total legal reform and a return to the Constitution and our natural rights as men and women.
We have a system that is irredeemably corrupt, oppression, tyrannical and totalitarian. The monsters who rule us are our very neighbors and until we admit this we will continue to suffer under their lash.
The Zimmerman case is not the exception. It is the rule. The so-called “rule of law” is not a rule of law at all but a system of oppression for the purposes of power and money.
The Tea Party, truly, is the only realistic hope for America. Join your local and support them. Short of 20 Tahrir Squares nationwide, I see no other answer.
Beverly – I see that others have addressed the fact that Geraldo (I’m not a fan) clearly said that this was a case that should never have been prosecuted. However no one mentioned your Jerry Rivers originally comment.
His first name was Gerald (although his father’s family called him Geraldo) and his last name has always been Riviera and sometimes misspelled as Rivera. He has never been known as Jerry Rivers.
Eric, that 5:43 am comment was excellent.
***
I saw a comment at Ace of Spades this morning comparing Trayvon Martin to Horst Wessel.
That is a very disturbing comparison, and I fear it is accurate, at least in terms of how his death is being used for propaganda purposes by the Left.
Words have meanings: “Tragedy” is not appropriately applied to T. Martin and his death.
There is a great deal of squishy thinking and misused verbiage in this matter, as in sentiments such as “The death of any child is a tragedy for the parents.” Uhh, what about “honor killings”? And note the plural–parentS. In this day of single mamas?
Don Carlos,
I still get angry over 9/11 being called a ‘tragedy’, as if it were an earthquake, a flood, a hurricane or a tornado. I had an email exchange with a NewsMax contributor back in 2002 who wrote about ‘the tragedy of 9/11’. I took him to task and told him 9/11 was not a tragedy but an atrocity. I don’t know if he did, but he wrote back that I was right and he would stop calling 9/11 a ‘tragedy’.
So yeah, I agree, words matter.
I, too, am surprised by this verdict, because I thought that–no matter how obviously meritless the prosecution’s case (and not even mentioning the judge’s pro-prosecution bias) was in this frame-up–the jurors would be under an incredible amount of pressure–from the MSM, from various race hustlers, and from the mythical “community”–to give those who wanted to punish Zimmerman some sort of punishment.
Regardless of this good outcome for Zimmerman, it cannot be doubted that this prosecution has destroyed any hope that Zimmerman might have for living a normal life hereafter.
However, I wonder about several aspects of the aftermath of this trial; things like:
Where will Zimmerman find some sort of safety with the target that this trial, the Administration, the MSM, and various race hustlers had painted on his back?
How will Zimmerman–not, I think, a man of wealth by any means–pay what have to be quite large legal bills, when I doubt he will find finding a job very easy?
Will Zimmerman and his legal team now sue the prosecutors for this frame-up and violation of his civil rights and, if so, under what theory, and how will he pay for that legal effort?
Will Zimmerman and his lawyers seek to get the DA disbarred, a la what happened in the case of the Duke rape prosecution?
Will Zimmerman file complaints alleging judicial misconduct against his trial judge with the Bar Association, and with whatever disciplinary board the Supreme Court of the State of Florida has?
Will Zimmerman try to sue the major MSM outlets who helped create the push for a trial by presenting all sorts of manipulated “evidence,” and, if so, under what theory, and who will bankroll such a suit?
Or, will Zimmerman just want to try to, somehow, fade back into the background, and not stir up more controversy.
Even if Zimmerman wanted to go after the various people and organizations that have tried their best railroad him, put him in jail for a year, and done their best to destroy his life–can he, without millions of dollars and many years to spend in these efforts at getting justice and payback?
Silencio Dogood: “there will almost certainly be others who seek to create a corresponding test case in which the victim is white and the perpetrator black.”
There are black home owners who, like Zimmerman, are concerned and dutiful community members. And there are white thugs and worse. (For worse, the pair that invaded that doctor’s home and did horrible things to his wife and daughters come to mind.)
Like I said, a chief 2nd amendment argument by gun advocates is the historical case of blacks protecting their homes, families, and communities, from threats in the wake of the Civil War, especially when law enforcement was unreliable.
Self defense isn’t a novel legal concept and the facts of the case are not extraordinary. I haven’t done nor will I do the legal research, but I would be very surprised if there were not precedents where a black defendant relied on a self defense affirmative defense to be acquitted of murdering a white person.
Rather, I suspect that under similar circumstances as to the Zimmerman’s case, there are precedents where black people were not brought to trial. Recall that the initial law enforcement response to the incident was that, while tragic, it lacked sufficient prima facie evidence to rise to the probable cause needed to charge Zimmerman with a crime.
That certainly doesn’t fit your contention that the “Zimmerman precedent stretches the definition of self-defense to its outer limits”.
The initial law enforcement response was validated in the course of the Zimmerman trial when the serious flaws in the prosecution case came to the light. Under scrutiny, the charges brought against Zimmerman appeared more ‘stretched’ than the acquittal.
Still, I can accept that the Zimmerman case was brought to jury trial in the first place, but a ‘decline to prosecute in the interest of justice’ would have been warranted for Zimmerman as well.
Don Carlos and RickZ:
Actually, in this case “tragedy” is highly appropriate.
Unlike 9/11, which was a tragedy for the victims but was in addition (and primarily) an outrageous and vicious and premeditated act of malicious barbaric terrorism and mass murder on the part of its Islamicist terrorist perpetrators.
Trayvon Martin’s death at the hands of George Zimmerman was indeed tragic, tragic for both Martin and his family, and certainly for Zimmerman no matter how good the trial’s ending. Martin, as far as I can tell, was an aggressive 17-year-old punk on the way to a life of petty crime unless he shaped up, which may or may not have happened as his life went forward and he got older. But his behavior on the evening that turned out to be his last, although both suspicious and aggressive, would not ordinarily have led to his death, nor was it obviously murderous, despite the fact that (according to Zimmerman) Martin threatened to kill Zimmerman with Zimmerman’s own gun. The whole thing was an encounter no one planned, an encounter that escalated as a result of Martin’s aggression against Zimmerman, an aggression that ordinarily (and probably in Martin’s mind) would have ended with a bad beating administered to Zimmerman and bragging rights by Martin, who would have (in his own mind, anyway), shown that “cracker” what a badass Martin was.
That’s no defense of Martin. But there is no comparison to an event such as 911, nor is it any sort of premeditated murder. A bad situation escalated into Martin’s death, which was tragic both in terms of Martin and especially his family. It was tragic for Zimmerman, too, whose life will never be his own again and who will have to always have protection and security, plus needing to deal with the difficult knowledge that he killed Martin. Neither of the parties seems to have intended this result at the outset of the evening’s encounter, but the escalation of violence (brought about, I believe, by Martin’s actions) started a chain of events that ended up that way.
I choose my words extremely carefully. It’s not that I don’t make errors at times, but this use of “tragedy” was no error and the word was not chosen lightly. It was a choice I made after quite a bit of deliberation.
Also, Don Carlos: where is the “squishy thinking” when people say the death of a child is a tragedy for parents? Of course, people can say that as part of a train of “squishy thinking,” if they’re trying to exonerate the guilty or whitewash their behavior for example. But it is NOT squishy thinking to merely allege that the death of a child is a tragedy ordinarily and almost always.
I can I suppose think of a few exceptions to the rule, but I am hard-pressed to do so. Even the parents of a mass murdering psychopath probably consider his/her death a tragedy, although they probably think their offspring’s entire life is a tragedy as well. Parents of psychopaths are often quite ordinary people who have done nothing special as parents to create the psychopath, and they usually have loved the child who grew up to be so strange and violent. As I said, the whole thing is a tragedy for them.
Perhaps if a child does something very heroic that results in his/her death there are non-tragic aspects to it in that their is pride for the child’s bravery, but the death itself is still very tragic especially to parents and there is no way around that.
Are honor killings by parents (which certainly are rare or altogether unknown in our society) an exception to the “tragedy” rule? I suppose so, but as I said that’s not ordinarily part of our culture. I don’t think it changes the fact that “death of a child is a tragedy” is a generally correct assertion.
Another example, of course, are the parents of many Palestinian suicide bombers who say they are very proud and happy about the children’s fate and choice. Another exception, but not part of our culture. I suppose in some tribal situation or other, or some obscure culture or other somewhere around the world, there are other exceptions as well. But people discussing this case are still allowed to make the general assertion that is in fact almost universally true without being accused of “squishy thinking.”
Ditto your reaction. Stunned. Pleased. Now for civil and legal action against those in the “justice system”, DoJ, White House, and media who perpetuated this insult to justice. The war has just begun on this one.
Besides, if he isn’t proactive, they will bring civil against him. He better be on the ball on this one. Probably only worked out like this because he isn’t white though. Still, one step at a time.
Wolla Dalbo:
Zimmerman’s lawyers were pro bono, I read somewhere, and the lawyers themselves said in their post-trial press conference that the prosecutors will have to pay for some of the defense expenses.
I believe that the defense lawyers also indicated that someone (not sure who) is going to go after Corey et al for some sort of misconduct.
I do not think Obama’s DOJ will pursue further action against Zimmerman, but that’s just a hunch.
Silencio DogoodWhile there will be some Martin supporters who feel like rioting, there will almost certainly be others who seek to create a corresponding test case in which the victim is white and the perpetrator black.
The case already occurred in 2009 in the Rochester area. Roderick Scott, a 42 year old black, shot and killed 17 year old Christopher Cervini, who was caught breaking into cars at 3:30 in the morning. Roderick Scott was found innocent.
Wolla Dalbo: “I, too, am surprised by this verdict, because I thought that–no matter how obviously meritless the prosecution’s case (and not even mentioning the judge’s pro-prosecution bias) was in this frame-up–the jurors would be under an incredible amount of pressure—from the MSM, from various race hustlers, and from the mythical “community”—to give those who wanted to punish Zimmerman some sort of punishment.”
The wives and moms of Florida have spoken about their expectations for their husbands and the fathers of their children.
An original theoretical premise of a trial by a ‘jury of your peers’ is the jurors understood the contextual conditions in the community surrounding the issues at bar because they lived in them, too. The shared communal understanding informed the purposely subjective reasonable person standard. The local context rationale is also a reason why crimes are prosecuted by the People of the state and not by the federal government, although that line has eroded.
The state was certainly under great pressure to prosecute Zimmerman for the death of Martin, who Obama said looks like his hypothetical son. However, unlike Obama, the jurors live in communities like Zimmerman’s and expect their men to protect their homes, families, and communities like Zimmerman tried to do. I would not be surprised to learn that the social issues of a rise in crime coupled with inadequate police response are not exclusive to Zimmerman’s community in Florida.
Shouting Thomas:
But the Zimmerman case only became a criminal case because it was thrust into the political arena. Otherwise it would never have been brought.
That is part of the reason we all had a dog in this fight. It was because criminal cases should not be brought for political reasons.
I’m sorry, neo, but on Traygone Martin, I disagree that this was a tragedy. When somebody is pounding your head into the concrete using their MMA training and trying to kill the cracker, killing that thug is not a tragedy; if the thug Traygone had killed the neighborhood watch guy, Zimmerman, we would never have heard about it as it is so commonplace as to be ignored, nor would that murder have been a violation of Zimmerman’s civil rights, just a violation of his human rights. The tragedy is that Traygone’s ‘familly’ did not raise him to understand the consequences of being a thug before the bullet for which he was begging killed him.
The arrest and trial of George Zimmerman was not a tragedy, either, but rather a travesty of the judicial process, especially not using a grand jury but rather giving in to the race-baiters. There is no tragedy in the death of the teen thug Traygone, just societal relief at not having to pay for future long-term incarceration (and that is exactly where Traygone was heading, like many feral youth in the black ‘community’).
Oh, and neo, while agreeing with Don Carlos’ comment, I was also commenting on how the word ‘tragedy’ is overused and abused to the point of absurdity, just as the media did in using that word to describe the ‘man-made disaster’ that was 9/11.
Neo–Hate to disagree with you but, considering Holder’s track record, I can very easily see him unleashing his hand-picked crew of leftist lawyers that now pack the DOJ’s “civil rights division” against Zimmerman in a civil rights prosecution.
the jury system and its power of nullification has always been a thorn in the side of the despotic in the west…
as much as the left has tried to undo the bullworks of western freedom, they have not yet stood back and realized to what effort they have had to go to for how long and still find their plans not easy to finish…
to wax funny, American democracy under the constitution is the Kalashnikov of political systems…
throw sand in it, twist it, hammer the barrel back to straight, use parts from different machines and series, and so on… and it keeps going…
Prompted by the several comments from “Truth” which others have already taken to task, may I point out another related issue?
People like “Truth” and those congressional representatives and celebrities who are now responding with dismay to the Zimmerman verdict clarify an important fact. Note that these comments of dismay/disgust do not deal either with the concept of the rule of law (“I disagree with the verdict but it IS the verdict that was rendered”), nor do they deal with the evidence presented (how could they address the evidence and still foam at the mouth?). Instead they reveal two innate truths about the liberal left.
The first is that their comments betray their fundamental bias; “I didn’t get the verdict that I wanted, therefore the verdict is wrong.” This is a purely self-serving narcissistic revelation (and we wonder how Obama could be elected?).
More importantly, in my mind, is the question of why would leftists respond this way in the face of apaprently insurmountable evidence to the contrary? IMO the answer lies in the fact that all arguments with leftists are the same argument. Regardless of the subject under discussion, with the left it’s always about one thing and one thing only; demonstrating that they are culturally and morally superior to anyone with whom they disagree.
This is (again IMO) why facts like the Zimmerman evidence mean nothing to the left, and this is why, regardless of the subject, one cannot have a substantive debate with a leftist. The sting of the Zimmerman verdict is that “The Big Govt System” which the left relies on to justify its sanctimony has, itself, called the leftist narrative out as not morally or culturally superior but just one of many flawed points of view.
It creates a dire contradiction for the left which cannot be reconciled by feelings. In my mind it is the self-same kind of contradiction which we see in the verbal disrespect shown to people like Condolezza Rice, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas. It’s not simply that they have “left the plantation,” but they are an existential threat to the demanded moral authority of the leftist trope. The disgust and insults heaped upon them are nothing but a verbal Berlin Wall intended to keep the remaining residents in control.
RickZ,
I agree that the ‘tragedy’ language for 9/11, as though it was a freak natural disaster, was purposely deployed to sterilize the historical frame and drain the public’s passion.
I think it is a tragedy for Martin that he didn’t survive his youthful transgressions, similar to teens who die from poor judgement with any number of risky behaviors, such as with recreational drugs, while driving, and too often, a lethal combination of the two. Martin did something stupid and he died.
However, I’ve known enough men who were bad kids but recovered to be good citizens as adults. If I recall correctly, Zimmerman’s care as a neighborhood watchman is in part due to his focus on setting his own life right after a misspent youth.
I met plenty of the type when I was a soldier – young men whose youths were like Martin’s but had seen the light and were using the Army as a second chance at life to ‘man up’. Maybe Martin would have seen the light some day, too. Or maybe he would have only worsened as a cancer on society. But, like a kid who loses his life drag racing, Martin made a decision that cost him the opportunity to try to become a better version as an adult.
RickZ:
You are completely misunderstanding my point.
I’m not saying the moment Zimmerman pulled the trigger, or his reasons for doing so, constituted a tragedy. The repercussions did, both for Zimmerman, his family, Martin, and the Martin family. It was a tragedy because Martin died exactly as Eric says above, before he had time to grow up and perhaps change his ways (as many young people initially on the wrong track do). It’s obvious why it was a tragedy for both families. The tragedy is in the entire incident, at the start not intended (I believe) by either party to lead to a death, but inexorably (and on Zimmerman’s part for very justified reasons) leading to that death.
The arrest and trial was not a tragedy, nor did I ever suggest it was. It was a purposeful well-thought-out-and-executed perversion of the justice system for political ends. Fortunately it did not work out in the end for those who perpetrated it in terms of putting Zimmerman in jail as a scapegoat, although it did work out for its perpetrators in terms of propaganda for many readers of the MSM, and it worked out in terms of making Zimmerman’s future very precarious.
T,
The totalitarian meta-Narrative and the Marxist imperative.
Jim Sullivan, rickl:
Thanks for the kind reaction. Frame matters.
To me, the Zimmerman case is most of all about the state of American men and manhood. About masculine norms, duties, responsibilities, and aspirations. About the social contract men make with each other to be an organic community, a neighborhood.
About how we’re teaching or failing to teach teenage boys like Martin to become an American man accepted among American men. About the costs of the erosion of patriarchy.
I hear (read) what you’re saying neo, I just adamantly disagree. The tragedy for Zimmerman was not the shooting or the trial or any of that crap. What was the tragedy was a president racially injecting himself into a local crime matter without knowing any facts, claiming the ‘victim’ would be just like his imaginary son, giving aid and comfort to the black racists in our society who wanted to lynch George Zimmerman using the full force of the legal apparatus.
(I still maintain that when George Zimmerman’s name was first published, the media thought he was an elderly Jewish guy who killed a black yute, a perfect foil for the race baiters. When he turned out to be an Owebama voting Hispanic, with a black grandfather, and a person who went to the aid of a black homeless man against the Sanford PD, well, that didn’t happen. The Memory Hole is deep.)
Wow….
What a reason to put someone in prison for a crime the prosecution couldn’t prove and had no real evidence for. To stop a potential future crime.
Conservatives do not believe in injustice to prevent another crime. Justice in most peoples’ minds is the same thing as Fairness to them. They want it their way or it isn’t Justice or Fairness. That is the argument of a child not getting his way, not the way the law has to be applied.
In the exact same situation, same roles different outcome, if Martin had lived and Zimmerman died, and Martin claimed self-defense, it would have been difficult to convict Martin since Zimmerman had a gun and Martin may have stated he had seen it and didn’t want it used so he beat Z to death. Using all of the evidence presented with Martin on trial, I would have assumed he would have gotten off as well and would rather he not be charged to begin with.
The problem was always the evidence, so little with no eye witnesses, poor forensics and other. Self-defense can be beaten with evidence, even without eye witnesses. This case had no evidence which is why the prosecution relied on emotion especially in their closings.
T wrote:” with the left it’s always about one thing and one thing only; demonstrating that they are culturally and morally superior to anyone with whom they disagree.”
Even more than that. I actually heard a white faculty person at my school claim that black people have a divine spark that white people don’t have and that they are superior creatures who really can do no bad. My first reaction was “How absolutely dehumanizing an idea!” Of course, anyone who would point that out that their objects of worship have feet of clay, (Like everyone else) is a great affront to the liberal mind.
eeyore,
Silencio Dogood’s flawed premise is that self defense is either novel or has been hitherto unavailable as an affirmative defense for black people. Neither is true. Self defense is developed and has been applied to black defendants.
If Zimmerman was black and Martin was white (and/or Hispanic), all else being equal, the fact pattern would have been the same.
Neo, thank you for your comment at 11:31. Parents are not monsters because their children go astray. Yes, they might have done things better, but show me parents who have not made mistakes in the rearing of their children and I’ll nominate them for sainthood.
To err is human, to forgive, divine. In the heat of the cultural battle that we are experiencing, that is too often forgotten. The jury has reached a decision. Though most of us here favor that decision, we have to remember that not only has Zimmerman’s life been changed for the worse, but Martin’s parents life has changed irrevocably as well.
As Eric pointed out teens make many errors in judgment that often lead to their deaths. All are tragedies on many levels. They leave behind a trail of all those who loved them and those who must deal with that loss.
I pointed out in a previous thread that the whole tragedy was the result of one mistake by Zimmerman – getting out of his vehicle.
And two mistakes by Martin – confronting Zimmerman and then deciding to assault him. Simple mistakes that added up to human tragedy that reflects the divisions in our nation. It’s a cautionary tale for any who wish to heed the lessons.
A great President would act wisely and use his bully pulpit to try to defuse racial tension and bring the nation closer. Will this President do so? I’m not holding my breath.
I just looked at the original situation with the outcome reversed and came to the same conclusion regarding charges. In my opinion, the same evidence available at trial if used against Martin would not be enough to charge nor convict Martin if Z had died. That is why I didn’t change any race just a different outcome – “victims”.
The problem has always been with the evidence being insufficient if considering self-defense for both parties. This was just a bad case to charge, take to trial, or hang the leftist-racial philosophy on. It is a tragedy played out any way with the information we have.
The tragedy which is exacerbated by our post-racial President who steps into the case without knowing the evidence (or perhaps not caring). Of course, on any holiday or day of honor or any speech, Obama can rarely talk without putting so many “I’s” into it he must surely believe his own press if not more.
physicsguy (@1:17),
My question to that faculty member is: “And you know this how exactly? You’ve personally spoken directly to The Creator have you?”
The absurdities never cease and ridiculous statements should be publicly ridiculed.
Wow. I missed physicsguy’s 1:17 comment.
That goes beyond “white guilt” into “white groveling”. Utterly pathetic.
I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that Obama won two terms with fools like that around.
physicsguy
I actually heard a white faculty person at my school claim that black people have a divine spark that white people don’t have and that they are superior creatures who really can do no bad.
Coincidentally, back in the day there was a woman teaching at your school who, in the wake of a bitter divorce, started living with a younger black guy. He didn’t have much on the ball, and many thought to themselves, why would such a bright woman get involved with such a doofus? Were he a white doofus, she would never have gotten involved. Some years later, she finally wised up.
The parties involved have been dead for years, so no one is getting harmed by airing this.
Strong words but what have I stated that was not fact?
Everything that comes out of a particular person’s mouth and hands.
Yesterday (@12:13 pm) I offered:
I offer, in support, Victor Davis Hanson (h/t Realclearpolitics):
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/07/12/supposed_crimes_of_the_mind__119189.html
The Left isn’t about demonstrating it. It is about proving it by enforcing it: fire, death, intimidation, fear, the works.