Home » Something dramatic…

Comments

Something dramatic… — 24 Comments

  1. Perhaps this is the real arab spring? All things considered I have no sympathy for the average, misogynistic egyptian on the street. But I am hoping the MB are strung up on all available lampposts with a picture of BHO strung around their necks.

  2. The army has announced the suspension of the constitution and declared that Morsi is deposed.

  3. It’s hilarious switching from Fox to CNN.

    Fox: “Angry over the Muslim Brotherhood’s influence of the Morsi Presidency, the Military put him under house arrest and put the Chief Justice of the Egyptian Constitutional Court in charge.”

    CNN: “A dark day for democracy in the Middle East. Angry crowds gloat over the fall of the first democratically elected president in Eygpt’s history.”

  4. Much like Turkey. Although the Turkish military seems to be heading more islamist, and with the economy seeming good and stable, I’m not sure they are interested this time. Egypt was economically dying. I’m thinking economy, not so much “freedom” or anything else, though being more certain would take a bit of digging… regarding Egypt and Turkey.

  5. Is it just me or does it seem as if every popular uprising, if successful, has ended up with a worse ruler? Except for ours.
    Cromwell, the French revolutionaries, Khomeni, communists in Russia and China, Sandinistas….
    As somebody said, the Egyptian army was there before Islam. By about three thousand years. Wonder if there’s any institutional momentum.

  6. Cromwell certainly was no choir boy but Cromwell’s actions arguably led to a constitutional monarchy with explicitly circumscribed powers.

    If the French revolution was monstrous, the French nobility, prior to the revolution, were both monstrous and obscene. At least the French people no longer had to ‘eat cake’.

    Perhaps it comes down to whether the revolution promotes authoritarian control by an elite. Whenever that elite consists of true ideological believers who insist that ‘only they know the truth’, one intolerant of dissent, invariably the revolution is a greater curse than blessing.

  7. Jim Sullivan: CNN: “A dark day for democracy in the Middle East. Angry crowds gloat over the fall of the first democratically elected president in Eygpt’s history.”

    Someone ought to tell CNN that there’s a lot more to pluralistic liberal government than democracy. Thus, Bush emphasized “reform”, “institutions”, “freedom”, and “justice” along with democracy in the Middle East.

    Democracy without liberal features is just mob rule. Strictly speaking, democracy isn’t required for liberal government, but popular legitimacy is necessary for liberal government, and democracy is the dominant process for popular legitimacy for governments in the world today.

  8. hay you what happen in Syria looks all the lights now on Egypt, so looks Syria + Iranian dancing in the night?

  9. Marie never said they had to eat cake, or that they should if hungry. That was a fiction from the start. And it wasn’t the poor who started the revolution, it was the middle class, who wanted more access to power and greater wealth. At least be historically correct.

    As for why revolutions fail? I think it has to do with the people involved with it. If they aren’t ready for freedom, they will sell what they gained for free stuff to those smart enough to promise it. I think our revolution worked because our people had, essentially, become free and become used to being free, unlike those coming from one sort of tyranny or other. That is why Russia may never be fully free of dictatorial rule, or China. Peasants don’t turn into citizens, aren’t capable, aren’t really even interested. I suspect the French “middle class” was too small, even if they were effective at creating the revolution, they lost control of it and the ends, to populists of the peasants.

  10. A couple of points:

    First, in the third world generally, and the Arab world more particularly, the military is often the best-educated segment of the population. Modern officers need to know something about technology, history and management in order to do their jobs.

    Second, in regard to the French Revolution, “Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity” was never going to work – the first two contradict each other, and the third contradicts human nature.

  11. I agree liberty and equality contradict each other. I don’t agree fraternity contradicts human nature.

  12. Only idiot can hope for democracy in Arab world. These people do not deserve it.

  13. A friend uses for his email signature the cliche:

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner”

    The description seems accurate in many parts of the world; particularly in the Muslim world.

    I would hope that our government–and I am not referring only to the Obama Administration–will soon learn to tread softly in situations that they don’t understand. And would become more humble about admitting how much they don’t understand.

  14. Holy Priests of the LEft will never admit anything that contradicts their doctrine.

  15. The best hope is that the segment of the population wishing to get rid of the idiocy of political Islam without repeating the past mistakes of Arab nationalism will finally be the ones who dictate Egypt’s course from here on out. The worst case scenario can go in one of two directions: Either people decide the Muslim Brotherhood failed because they weren’t Islamic enough and they go full-on Salafist, thinking to create another Saudi Arabia from the early days and instead creating another Taliban-ish government (yuck), or they revisit the past and accidentally resurrect Nassar-type socialistic nationalism, and all the failures associated with it.

    The hope is indeed that things work out for the moderates who hope for nothing more than a free society. They do comprise some of the crowds. But unfortunately, the hard-core Salafists and die-hard nationalists are also parts of those crowds. And I simply can’t tell how many of each camp exists.

    It sucks, but as Michael Totten pointed out, Egypt is literally on the brink of either throwing off illiberalism and moving into the present, or backsliding into one of two historic holes of either politico-secular or politico-Islamic extremism. That country can go either way. And one of those ways would be bad for everyone.

  16. John Bolton recently said that democracy is a culture, so it takes more than a democratic election for a country like Egypt to make the transition. Many of them are on board this time around – hope they can defeat the Muslim Brotherhood.

    I’m no expert of deviled eggs. Made some yummy blueberry raspberry cobbler for our picnic.

    Happy Independence Day, Neo!
    Here’s a July 4th jello mold for you:
    http://jelly-shot-test-kitchen.blogspot.com/2011/06/getting-ready-for-4th.html

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>