Gathering the phone records data: why it’s not okay
The WSJ isn’t perturbed by the revelation of the data-mining continuation by the Obama administration:
…[U]unlike the other White House scandals there seems to be little here that is scandalous. The existence of the program was exposed years ago and such surveillance is a core part of the war on terror, if we can still use that term…
The outrage this time seems to stem from the fact that the government is widely collecting call records, not merely those associated with a particular suspect or group. But this fear misunderstands how the program works. From what we know, the NSA runs algorithms over the call log database, searching for suspicious patterns over time.
The effectiveness of data-mining is proportional to the size of the sample, so the NSA must sweep broadly to learn what is normal and refine the deviations…
If the NSA’s version of a computer science department operates like the rest of FISA, the government is cautious to ensure that its searches are narrowly tailored and specific protocols are reviewed by FISA judges.
Later in the piece, the editors do point out some reasons to be alarmed, but the general tone is soothing:
An Administration can hide behind the judge’s approval if the request goes too far, or likewise if a judge says no and there is a terror attack. That is why war powers belong to the executive with appropriate Congressional oversight, and the entire FISA system ought to be scrapped…Americans would worry less about the government spying on them if, for example, the Justice Department wasn’t secretly spying on the Associated Press and Fox News. Or if the IRS wasn’t targeting White House critics…The liberals who spent the Bush years warning about a knock on the door at least have the virtue of consistency, if not the Republicans who are now depicting the NSA program as some J. Edgar Hoover-Bill Moyers operation to target domestic enemies…
Amid many real abuses of power, the political temptation will be to tie data-mining into a narrative about a government out of control. Such opportunism can only weaken our counterterror defenses and endanger the country.
I disagree.
Perhaps the piece was a result of a fight among the editors, because it reads as a compromise with a split personality. It is precisely because of the IRS, AP, and Rosen stories that this news has been so disturbing to the public. And that public is correct to be disturbed.
Just imagine if the story had come out on its own, without any of the other scandals having been revealed. The reaction probably would have been ho-hum. At the very least it would have been far more muted. But the scandals are not unrelated, although they occurred in different venues: the IRS targeting is about a government willing to take the data it is supposed to deal with objectively and use it for naked political purposes, and the AP/Rosen action is about a government willing to extend and bend the law (judge-shopping and lying in the warrant) to gather information on the press under the guise of fighting terrorism.
It is the synergistic effect with the other scandals that makes these recent revelations so exceedingly troubling, coupled with three additional things: Obama’s own words that the war on terror is pretty much over, weakening his argument about the need for it; his recent speeches about how one should trust big government and not be afraid of it; and the glaring hypocrisy of his campaign promises to end this sort of thing once he was president.
The public—if not the WSJ—is starting to realize that there is no reason to trust big government in general, and the Obama administration in particular. Yes, we need tools to fight terrorism. But we need reasonable ones. What’s more, we need an administration that does not falsely declare the fight over, is not hypocritical, and is not willing to do almost anything to gain political victory.
PJM’s Richard Fernandez’s column on this is the best description of why PRISM, in tandem with the IRS harassment and AP/Fox news scandals, is so disturbing.
http://tinyurl.com/lr5bvzf
I hope you’re right that the public is starting to realize that the Obama administration really is willing to do almost anything to gain political victory.
I can’t explain it (other than to say that I just feel it down deep in my bones), but I still believe that Benghazi will prove to be the worst of these scandals. There is something very big, very ugly and very rotten lurking there; something that can be sensed just beneath the surface but has not yet been seen.
carl in atlanta:
Accent on the word “starting.”
Unfortunately it may not go very far. I don’t know how many people are paying enough attention, how many are connecting the dots, and whether the lull in the media’s adoration of Obama will continue or whether it will snap back to defending everything he does.
Neo correctly noted:”The public–if not the WSJ–is starting to realize that there is no reason to trust big government in general, and the Obama administration in particular.”
First, this not the program we were led to expect during the Bush Admin. Since Feinstein, et al, would have screamed bloody murder if Bush had mi-scharacterized the FISA program, I assume that there has been a major change from a targeting of foreign phone calls to a mining of all phone calls, tweets, facebook entries, emails, (and dreams?).
Second, because this revelation follows closely on other revelations of abuse of power, it is reasonable to observe that government is just too damn big, and too damn intrusive.
We though George Orwell wrote fiction. It appears that he wrote prophecy.
All is well . The Shepherd is constantly vigilant, while the sheep peacefully graze. (And the butcher discreetly remains out of sight.)
A very nice summary.
Here’s how you say it to a liberal: It’s kind of sort of like some sort of net or something coming down on all of us. I mean, I can see it’s necessary for those right wing religious freaks, but there seems to be, maybe, a little over reach, perhaps.
Hopefully, the people are getting concerned.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/06/07/leno-heck-big-brother-obama-we-actually-have-brother-watching-us#ixzz2VXNyoAGs
But the pun really doesn’t work because Obama ain’t no brother. I’m more brother than he is, believe that.
Neo I could not agree more that with you that it’s not ok, and watching Goober Graham and other republicans defend it is infuriating when you consider it in the context of this administration’s total disregard for the law or limits on executive power. It’s mind boggling to think rational people are willing to extend trust to a justice department and bureaucracies that show open contempt for the law, who clearly feel there is nothing and no one that can hold them accountable. The justice department is now above the law, and nobody seems to care. The President can do what he wants, when he wants, and nobody cares.
Beyond this enraging business, as a curious engineer, I would like to know what kind of patterns in phone calls they are actually looking for. I am more than a bit skeptical this claim is true; I cannot think of a pattern that domestic terrorists would adopt in peer to peer or emails that would be anything other than specific durations of calls or messages, that may seem suspicious. With the staggering number of single word text messages routinely sent every minute, it’s hard for me to imagine what patterns they see a terrorist network adopt that would not be part of the everyday background clutter of daily communications. I don’t think they are being straight with this — they couldn’t possibly obtain anything from “patterns”. I’m not an expert in any way, just skeptical.
I would believe statistical sampling of actual content as a plausible means to collect information, but simply watching patterns of domestic communications seems to me to be a huge stretch of the imagination. They would be seeing so many common patterns they would be unrecognizable. I’d like to hear more than “trust us, that’s all we’re doing” The idea that so many on the right are willing to ignore the blatant abuses in everywhere else, and accept this blindly really is disturbing.
(long time no post) My husband explained it earlier by equating this with the earlier IRS over-reach and when you think about who is going to be in charge of overseeing healthcare–what was the Verizon (and I betcha it isn’t just Verizon) monitoring really monitoring(I starting going over a list in my head of who I know that has Verizon and things I might have said on phone calls)–are certain groups of people going to be denied healthcare–have to pay more? Just what the hell is Obama’s agenda? (hi NSA and whoever else is watching) I’m starting to have nightmares about a Police State and internment camps while the media and most of our populace live in blissful ignorance cause Obama is the Light-bringer –hahaha (wish I could spell out that daffy duck laugh)
Lizzy’s right about Richard Fernandez’s piece. He’s a smart guy, and is almost always worth a read.
He evidently wrote last night’s comments in a hurry (there are typos, which are uncharacteristic for him) but he seems to have some real insights on this stuff.
Here’s an copy of the link Lizzy provided at 12:41PM:
http://tinyurl.com/lr5bvzf
Evil says it is okay.
If Obama wants to reassure the public, he will be the first to acknowledge the potential for abuse and call for legislation that prevents political abuse such as perpetrated by the IRS. I won’t hold my breath.
I’m feeling a little bit of a tinge in my leg. A twitch. Obama’s whispers to me for every day of the last few years felt like that.
This glorious representation of the True Faith, Pristine Cause, and glorious Utopian world feels right.
It feels close, it feels very very close.
But not quite there. Not there yet. We’re not there yet. Keep waiting. You will see the Light that shines down upon us all soon enough. For Salvation is Eminent.
I guess what I meant to say in particular like a commenter elsewhere: I now fear my gov’t more than I fear Al Qaeda and can’t figure out the people that are poo-pooing this
from before the election i called this
and this is what gliechshaltung is…
the listening in, the intimidation, the consolidation, and so on, is that process.
right now, the means of production are all being purchased by funny money. ie. the progressives who came from the LID are now printing money to buy the means of production.
Akton T4 in the medical thing
school and employment restrictions based on being Jewish (white male), christian, conservative, etc.
the parallels are incredibly and truly scary
and its only ignorance of the general population that keeps them from having a fit. and that includes most who think they know!!!! (as most who think they know may know more than the others, but they certainly don’t know the methodologies which are never taught in regular classes)
Nixon spied on his opposition
and so did obama!!!
but nixons opposition was the other party
Obamas opposition is the people
want to know how much a parallel? his Brownshirts organization tried to get the scape goats to wear arm band denoting their status, like the pink patches, the yellow ones, and such in Germany
i wonder what huxley would say as the people the left call cranks, tin hats, and so on, have been mostly right… except for the leftist wankers who pose like that and are wacky so that the peole think the whole is like that.
i am just wonderng when people will read their words that they speak outsdie the public.
anyone know who the LID was?
League of Industrial Democracy?
Student League for Industrial Democracy
The League for Industrial Democracy (or LID) was founded in 1905 by a group of notable socialists including Harry W. Laidler, Jack London, Norman Thomas, Upton Sinclair, Florence Kelley, and J.G. Phelps Stokes. Its original name was the Intercollegiate Socialist Society, and its stated purpose was to “throw light on the world-wide movement of industrial democracy known as socialism.”
[so when they say democracy, they mean communism, which i said, learn the lingo and learn to translate, then you dont hear the same thing!!!!]
The Intercollegiate League for Industrial Democracy (known from 1933 as the Student League for Industrial Democracy) was the official youth section of the League for Industrial Democracy and a de facto junior section of the Socialist Party of America during the 1920s and the first half of the 1930s. The organization merged with a student organization sponsored by the Communist Party, USA in 1935 to form the American Student Union.
The Student League for Industrial Democracy of 1946 to 1959 was the second incarnation of the League for Industrial Democracy’s student group. It changed its name to the Students for a Democratic Society on January 1, 1960, and severed its connection to the LID in 1965.
in three years it changed to:
Students for a Democratic Society
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was a student activist movement in the United States that was one of the main representations of the New Left. The organization developed and expanded rapidly in the mid-1960s before dissolving at its last convention in 1969. SDS has been an important influence on student organizing in the decades since its collapse. Participatory democracy, direct action, radicalism, student power, shoestring budgets, and its organizational structure are all present in varying degrees in current American student activist groups. Though various organizations have been formed in subsequent years as proposed national networks for left-wing student organizing, none has approached the scale of SDS, and most have lasted a few years at best.
A new incarnation of SDS was founded in 2006.
anyone familiar with the SDS would know Ayers, boudin, and the brinks robbery for money to start a social justice race war,
so… being the major arm of American communism, why did anyone think that Communists would preserve the Constitution, the economy, and all that?
i told ya all to read that old stuff..
there was NO WAY you could misinterpret what was going on IF YOU DID.
[edited for length by n-n]
Most of the conspiracy people (Bush is killing civil liberties with the Patriot Act) were merely tools, sometimes useful often times not, of the Leftist alliance.
It’s a great way to not only use projection as defense, but also nutjobs as a way to make the truth start sounding crazy.
The libertarians will say that they were right, Bush’s antics and Obama are the same. Thus destroying their common credibility with those who think differently. It’s a good way to cover things up. Spread a bunch of conspiracy theories, 99% of them are wrong, but 1% is absolutely correct. Misinformation can often times not be told from the truth by common uneducated, untrained, cogs.
Some of what Art said, the critical flaw is that people don’t know how wars are fought.
They don’t get it.
Wars are fought with the soul and heart first and foremost.
The brain? You don’t even need a brain, IQ, education, or anything of that sort. “Talking” and “writing” to people so that they “get it” is about as effective as trying to cook up your enemies using romance novel plots. That’s not going to win you any damn wars to begin with.
Or winning elections and defeating the Left that way.
This war is like any other war, and also unlike any other war. The Left needs brains that control cannon fodder slave troops, but the same can’t be said for the forces of justice and good.
and whether the lull in the media’s adoration of Obama will continue or whether it will snap back to defending everything he does.
they are going to snap back and here is why..
its the same logic as applied to god
if no despotic system exists, then it doesnt matter which party you are part of. IF a despotic system exists and is growing, its safer to be on their side, as their side will kill to win, and the other side wont.
so, the system moves to despotism as they fear the people who blow things up, do mass murder, and so on, will pick them…
if your wrong with the conservatives, what happens?
if your wrong with the despots, what happens?
this is why it wins every time…
and i said so..
the other reason is that no one reads, listens to the clues, and knocks it over when its tiny, and the outcome is still indeterminate.
ie. we dont want to accidently make a mistake and stop a non despot, so we instead err on the side of c caution, and let the despot be a despot, and then act from 100% knowing.
the point is that as long as huxley was reasonable, and all the other distractions were going on, no one wants to be wrong… self confidence movement helps on that too, as does dumbing down, and more
a major part of more is that we are trained pavlovian to only accept a designated leader. since neo didint designate any, we no longer could defer to the experience and such of the best of us. and so, we cant self organize around exprience given ignorance wins over knowlege when the ignorance does not want to read.
ie. people didnt want to read, as they had already internalized that knowing equals losing, and not knowing equals winning through obstinacy and lack of cooperation in debate.
ergo they adopted the winning tactic which is only winning amoung a collective, not among the regulars, among the regulars with no one to dialogue them to an answer, they just mill around and never get to one, assuming gossip, lack of riqor, rumore, and so on are all parts of valid debate. which they are not, and also which not conceding is also not part of it.
so, it was set up this way, and the only way to break it is to learn about it. but i cant explain it as we dont accept experience and such… ie. knowledge is equal to ignorance and so the conversations are all equal, but purposeless.
if each person read the stuff, they would have discovered on their own and started to tell who was who, and what was what. but if not, then they would just have a labor theory of value with their discussions which for all their verbiage, amounted to nothing.
Lee Caldwell Owens:
wish I could spell out that daffy duck laug
Woo hoo!
was it that hard? 🙂
its more interesting what other languages call it
fyrknut (russian snort)
niya niya (japanese grin)
gna gna (dutch evil laugh)
🙂
“if each person read the stuff, they would have discovered on their own and started to tell who was who, and what was what. ”
If each person read the martial arts manuals, they would have discovered the secrets of martial arts and started to be able to become as good as the ancients.
Human lives, human goals, are not that cheap and easy to achieve. The ones that are, are worthless. The real secrets cannot be acquired through merely reading and passive soaking up the knowledge of the ages.
Those that seek to become soldiers, warriors, artists, military strategists and tacticians…. here’s a clue, “reading” things isn’t going get you a affirmative action right to it.
The Left and Islamic Jihad has a motivation they would be willing to kill for, if not die for.
American patriots have yet to find that love, that hate, and thus they lack the fire of the heart and soul. Thus they lose. As simple as that.
artfldgr:
I agree that they will snap back.
And even if they don’t, they’ll just go on to say Obama may be flawed, but not the principles of the left in general.
Ymarsakar
well put..
i have more than once tried to steer the conversation to the fulcrums… ie. the tiny point that had to fail for the whole to collapse..
but, its not something you say and people do, just as you point out… which is why i kept harping on them to read and go, and tried tried tried…
because the minute they did, all the parts from the few things i mentioned, woudl fall into place, and they would know inside what they wont know from my poor way of writing, but also, from ther morass here.
ie. if they left to read, they would be alone with the material without others throwing in the distractions!!!
but alas…
they do not think their lives are important enough, nor do they feel that defending a home against enemies that have not yet appeared is a good thing
tactically speaking we were done in a long time ago
i just still find it grating that neo said i was being so negative early on… really? maybe ifthings turned out well i was. but declaring me negative before the outcome is declaring me a wacko before finding out i am prescient… (and by the time things unravel, they forgot the wacko pointed this out and was called negative for it, and not having confidence and so on)
No, some of them cannot even conceive of the possibility that Obama made a mistake. I have to wonder if true believers like Chris Matthews are headed for a mental breakdown when they can no longer shut out all of the inconvenient facts about Dear leader. I
http://tinyurl.com/kh5qz82
“because the minute they did, all the parts from the few things i mentioned, woudl fall into place”
it won’t fall into place.
Conservatives could no more believe the Left is evil than they could believe their neighbors need to be put on a stake and burned alive. They believe in the Rule of Law, more than even the Law does not a days.
Like the Left, whatever data conflicts with the emotion and heart, is thrown out or reprocessed.
Republicans like to think this is a Neo-con or Democrat issue… but it’s not, it’s a very human one.
People don’t hear what they don’t want to hear. Thus they also see no evil, hear no evil, when they wish to.
Don’t underestimate or take lightly Leftist human manipulation weapons. They are more fearsome and powerful than any Weapon of Mass Destruction in US arsenals.
No human is immune to brainwashing, heart-soul deconstruction, torture, psychological manipulation, or logic. No one.
American patriots could no more “read the goodies on the Left and be enlightened” than some kid could read all the instructions clearly written on how to kill someone, and then defend their school from mass murdering psychopathic Leftists and Islamics.
Humanity, individuals, must change themselves first. They must purify themselves first. They must cleanse themselves first. They must burn down their weaknesses and reforge themselves, before THEY WILL EVER get it.
Ymarsakar
you miss the point.. and your wrong..
why do i know your wrong on the point of great wisdom?
because all great wisdom that lasts more than a few generations is written down, and prior to writing it down, we know none of the old wisdom prior to history.
when we teach, we use books…
now… what your pointing at is that you cant be an expert if you onlyread… but thats not true either, as it depends on what kind of expert..
ie. you claim that reading books does not a general make, but then why does west point use a 200 book seris of all battels and weaponry fought in history to teach war as a complete thing?
think they remember that and they have bards wandering around west point, or faragut academy or paris island, etc
the people who taught you that, are the people who dont want you to read.
granted, if i read manuals i may not become a star football player… but that and the social skills i could become a coach of players as playing is not necessary (and often a hinderance!)
a far as the jihad stuff and all that,we have the same motivations as we are the same people. dont beleive it, then wait, you will see them appear. (and be mislabeled).
just remember..
when it all goes bad, and people are locked down
you win the war by singing.
ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!
again… if you read, you would read of the singing war and how it helped defeat the soviets and break their control.
they read to copy the past… you read the past to break that up…
the Constitution is what you read.. no?
if they did not right it down, do you think we would discuss it or even know about it now?
be careful.. some of that wisdom that we pick up is false wisdom… and that point was one of them
the bible
Tao
I Ching
On War
The Art of War
you think that they would exist and the knowlege in them by bardic passage, or sheer memory like farenheight 451? (which sought to get around the law that knew if you destroy the books, then what?)
its why hitler burned the books..
(as did the french revoliton)
and why the kings banned novels.
and where would we be today if not for gutenberg and the protestant movement?
think about it
Conveniently, I don’t have to do much of any training. The Left will train them, all of us, for me.
Osprey:
Osprey Publishing is an Oxford-based publishing company specializing in military history. Predominantly an illustrated publisher, many of their books contain full-colour artwork plates, maps and photographs, and the company produces over a dozen ongoing series, each focusing on a specific aspect of the history of warfare. Osprey has published over 2,300 books (as Sept,2012). They are best known for their Men-at-Arms series, running to nearly 500 titles, with each book dedicated to a specific historical army or military unit. Majority ownership is held by the private equity firm Alcuin Capital Partners LLP.
i have read easily over 300 of their books…
given that battles are learned by historical books, and war is taught through all these books…
that is unless your a non com.. 🙂
i still have a lot more to read, but i also do work in genetics, research computing, and so on.
by the way..
just so you know.
the reason i take offense to that is that i am an autodidact
Autodidacticism (also autodidactism) is self-directed learning that is related to but different from informal learning. In a sense, autodidacticism is “learning on your own” or “by yourself”, and an autodidact is a self-teacher. Autodidacticism is a contemplative, absorptive procession. Some autodidacts spend a great deal of time reviewing the resources of libraries and educational websites. One may become an autodidact at nearly any point in one’s life. While some may have been informed in a conventional manner in a particular field, they may choose to inform themselves in other, often unrelated areas. Many notable contributions have been made by autodidacts.
witout it, i would just be a welfare autistic rather than in research computing, or wall street, or lots of other places…
i never had much need for school other than paper
and entered bronx science a year early
so tell me again how reading isnt the key…
if i had not spent all that time reading, i would not have such a impressive knowledge, nor the wisdom that comes from so much experience in concentrated form delivered unto me.
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
how well did his reading work for us? (till now)
you do know that they had read platos republic and such
and that we are suffering a movemetnt instigated by a book titled Philip dru administrator…
and that marxism would have died if not printed over and over and handed out over and over (like the priori of zion)…
artfldgr:
The only things I recall declaring you negative about (although I’m not sure “negative” was the word I used) was:
(a) personal attacks on commenters here and declarations that they disagreed with you when they didn’t, as well as sometimes misinterpreting what I’ve written here
(b) initially I recall some discussion back and forth between us about whether Obama was likely to go the Hitler/Stalin violence route of murdering the political opposition. I maintained that instead a Chavez-like direction was much more likely, and that you were being too (negative?–don’t recall my exact term) in saying it would go a more physically violent way. I still stand by that point of view of mine (although things could change, of course; it is not outside the realm of possibility at all).
I also think I said that it was not necessarily absolutely inevitable, either. That may have been a point of additional contention?
I refer you also to a lengthy piece I wrote in July of 2009, a few months after Obama had taken office for his first term. The intro goes as follows:
That was pretty early on, and I think I made it pretty clear what I thought Obama was capable of.
Again, perhaps our points of disagreement were mostly limited to how violent things are likely to get? Or perhaps you’re saying I didn’t see things clearly even earlier? Well, I wrote in October of 2008 that Obama was a socialist of some type, and had shown a worrisome sympathy with socialism of the Chavez type.
I don’t maintain I saw him completely clearly from the first moment he stepped on the stage, but I think I did fairly early.
To the best of my recollection, although you and I have certainly had some disagreements here in general and in particular, regarding Obama, disagreement on the issue of physical violence, I don’t think there were all that many other disagreements on the characteristics of Obama that he’s been exhibiting recently, or the ones involved in these recent revelations. They’re really not surprising at all, knowing what we’ve all learned about Obama in the past four or five years.
Philip dru administrator…
In the year 1920, the student and the statesman saw many indications that the social, financial and industrial troubles that had vexed the United States of America for so long a time were about to culminate in civil war.
Wealth had grown so strong, that the few were about to strangle the many, and among the great masses of the people, there was sullen and rebellious discontent.
The laborer in the cities, the producer on the farm, the merchant, the professional man and all save organized capital and its satellites, saw a gloomy and hopeless future.
This was to be done by electing an American President through “deception” regarding his real opinions and intentions.”
imagine that…
i will try to find it neo..
it was in passing and short.
and you didnt need to refresh other negs to talk about it.
i tried looking but it was early on… maybe even before the election, and was in response to my saying it was a Fait Accompli
i have referenced you saying it wasnt a fait accompli several times…
by the way, google plays game searching you
if you search for fait accompli you get lots of posts for your site. .. but if you restrict it to the site, you get nothing… so you can find your writing generally but not specifically
i cant find it given googles new way of doing things
its responses are different for each special setting
it goes way way back to when i said, if people dont wake up and all that, it will be a fait cccompli.
it was before you had really come across, and when huxley was still trying to be the “reasonable man” by taking a position based on regard towards him.
i cant find it…
sigh..
it was in passing… early on
it was before we had any kind of consensus and so still had huxley working his reasonable man position, and FREDHJR, who i still miss dearly…
Given the choice between terrorism and government opression, I will take my chances with terrorism. The odds are greatly in my favor terrorism will have less effect.
Neo: “Yes, we need tools to fight terrorism. But we need reasonable ones. What’s more, we need an administration that does not falsely declare the fight over, is not hypocritical, and is not willing to do almost anything to gain political victory.”
As I said in the previous thread, Michelle Malkin’s post takes the correct tack by contrasting Bush and Obama’s records on the details. She shows Bush maintained the balance of national security and preserving civil liberties.
Explicitly state Bush’s national security record is the gold standard by which to judge Obama’s national security actions. Meme-ify it: What Would (Did) Bush Do?
If Obama meets or exceeds Bush’s standard, then Obama gets a pass. If Obama does not meet Bush’s standard, then Obama fails.
Right now, the public is being presented with an all or nothing choice: the Paul way or the Obama way. That choice of extremes serves Obama because national security is a legitimate state interest, and he can hide behind it as a shield.
How do you pull the natural security shield from Obama without throwing the baby out with the bathwater? By emphasizing the third way, the Bush record, with its lines that balanced national security and civil liberty interests.
Again, make What Would (Did) Bush Do? a meme for judging Obama. Malkin showed us how.
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews declared Wednesday that he’s “got to believe” opposition to President Obama is “ethnic in nature,” since the president has “never done anything wrong in his life – legally, ethically, whatever.” Chris “Tingles” Matthews:
artfldgr:
Oh, if it was about the fait accompli part, I already said in my comment above that we disagreed about the likelihood of Obama resorting to violence, and also at the beginning (before the election of 2008, and in the first few months after) I wasn’t sure the socialism/powergrab/etc was inevitable. After that (by July of 2009, when I wrote that post I quoted) I thought almost certainly inevitable (and Obama’s intent was crystal clear) but hoped I was wrong in that the people might still be able to vote against it (and in 2010 they tried, but of course in 2012 enough of them did not do it).
So no need to look for it, if it was just about that fait accompli part, because that was indeed a point of disagreement between us.
I still miss FredHjr tremendously as well.
neo-neocon, 2:56 pm — ” . . . they’ll just go on to say Obama may be flawed, but not the principles of the left in general.”
At this point, I’d be happy if my leftie friends would settle for:
“Even if you believe strongly in the leftie agenda, and do not believe the vision is flawed, can we postpone that debate for another day? Could you pleeeeeze get your co-religionists (i.e., leftie cohorts) to agree that a government as overbearing as this one is *not* what you want, either: a government so overbearing and a lying, piss-on-your-leg-and-swear-it’s-rain chief executive? Can you agree that’s a problem, and we’ll debate collectivism vs. individualism tomorrow?”
But they’d never settle for that. They’re caught up in the cult of personality, and they’re positively salivating at the thought of centrally-controlling people. That is who they are and what they do. And they’ll never give an inch to the idea that their “man” (loosely defined) is screwing up — unless it’s failing to close Gitmo or something like that.
I wish I were more eloquent so I could effectively verbalize my disgust and contempt not only for the incumbent, but for all those sycophant henchpersons and all those [plural noun] that put him there and circle the wagons to keep him there.
It took them long enough. I noticed several years ago that Facebook pages looked almost identical to profile pages for intel gathering and analysis of targets to be assassinated.
All they need is the drones and the target now.
The reason why some consider Art “negative”, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree about that, is his campaign to convince people of some abstract truth. Then he is annoyed, or depressed, or whatever when people don’t get it.
This kind of attitude is judged based on its own merits, and is different from merely a superficial complaint about English text, writing, or length.
If “getting it” was so simple, why hasn’t Art improved, what he himself called his poor English writing skills, for the past 4-6 years?
If a person “getting it” would become enlightened and supreme against the Leftist monster, why isn’t it simpler to “get it” by improving in English communication for the past 4-6 years?
It’s not like Art didn’t have many opportunities to 1. Read and 2. Write.
Yet….
Those who ask others to change and fight the Left, yet is unwilling to put the effort into changing themselves for the better, regardless of who the hell says about it one way or another, is not in a position of authority or responsibility to command the troops of Light.
“The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence
Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders”
I don’t know about others, but I read a significant chunk of the Tao Te Ching for my martial self study purposes as well as Taiji Chuan physical/mental training. This is the first passage in the Tao (universal harmony).
“That” doesn’t tell the average bloke anything. Except perhaps for the clearest phrase, that using human words destroys the eternal truth and makes it something else. In other words, humans lie and everything they talk about is a form of self-deception or at least potentially self deceptive (Obama, Kerry, reporters, etc). Thus enlightened truth on the Divine, Universal level cannot be acquired the moment the human mind forces it into the confines of language.
But the book in itself doesn’t tell you that. It’s up to the person to interpret it. Because, again, “truth”, “knowledge”, and “skills” don’t come from books. They are merely shadows of the one truth, someone else got. Not an inheritance. Someone can acquire the value of an inheritance merely by existing. But knowledge and skills require a component called work and self-improvement.
“ie. you claim that reading books does not a general make, but then why does west point use a 200 book seris of all battels and weaponry fought in history to teach war as a complete thing?”
Those are merely to force cadets to think for themselves. But if they copy the tactics in a book, they would be burned to cinders by a Sun Tzu, or even an average experienced veteran commander. The goal can be accomplished by having them re-enact fake, fictional wars like Ender’s Game, as it can be by utilizing historical examples from books.
Those who follow the Law, Society, and Rules, cannot become creators of their will in war. In war, chaos is manifest everywhere and the commander must ride the waves. Adhering to the rules in a book of strategy and tactics isn’t going to do anything. When they fail, they are defeated.
Neo,
To address a comment Neo made, back in 2008 I pretty much knew that the Left couldn’t be stopped. Nobody had the firepower or will at the time, even if they had the desire. But the election of 2010 and 2012 gave people hope and people were talking about elections and what not. Those things disgusted me to no end. So I didn’t comment on much of anything, and let people say and do as they pleased. If they thought politics would save them, then I’ll wait and see. Perhaps they can prove me wrong.
I’m still waiting for that “political salvation” people were working so hard for while the Left destroyed the fundamental building blocks of human life and dignity.
But well, if people want to fight now when the going is tough and didn’t want to fight back then when it was easier, that’s nothing more than a repetition of what Winston Churchill said. Can’t help human nature. An army is not going to rise up just because I or anyone else says so. Even Mao understood that. One must make the occupation give the villagers a reason to fight with the rebels.
And if people don’t even want to fight now, or they want to help the Leftist alliance for a Human Utopia of Perfect Proportions…. then the fate of history will decree the survivor/victor.
Who “gets it” and who doesn’t “get it”, doesn’t matter. Whose head is still attached to their body after this is all over, that is what matters.
Lizzy Says:
June 7th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
The Broadband Empire and the Game of Drones
Thanks, Lizzy. I was just coming here to link that article. Here’s the money quote:
It should be blazingly obvious by now that Obama and his ilk do not consider Muslim terrorists to be the enemy, but rather American citizens who believe in the Constitution, limited government, and the free market.
ymarsakar said: American patriots have yet to find that love, that hate, and thus they lack the fire of the heart and soul. Thus they lose. As simple as that.
But I do. The contempt of Obama and the American left for our Constitution — the best thing we have, our claim to history, our hope — their contempt and disdain for our freedom of speech, our freedom of religion, our rule of law — burns in my soul. It is unforgivable to rise to control by exploiting the dream of this country and then use that control to destroy the dream. But violence cannot be the way to restore the rule of law and reason; that is self-contradictory, destroying the idea by defending it. When power laughs in the face of reason, tell me, where do I take it? What is to burn? What are we to do, to win?
Oldflyer Says:
June 7th, 2013 at 1:34 pm
Some appear to regard it as an instruction manual.
Mrs Whatsit Says:
June 7th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
Well said.
No, violence itself won’t restore the rule of law and reason, but it is essential for eliminating their enemies, after which the survivors may be able to restore it.
The only way for civilized men and women to deal with tyrants is to kill them.
Ymarsakar Says:
June 7th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
Me too. I knew that we were on the road to civil war the moment Obama was elected. I really believed that it would start in 2009. I find it very disturbing that it hasn’t started yet. With each passing day the Left cements its power and makes meaningful resistance less likely.
While 2010 gave me hope that all was not lost, the entire 2012 campaign was a gigantic clusterf*ck from start to finish. I too grew disgusted with all the talk about polls and “electability”.
2012 was our last chance. I no longer believe that we can settle this by peaceful, political means. The Republican Party is simply not a serious opposition party, and I fully expect them to lose the House in 2014.
If the Federal government no longer feels bound by the Constitution, then it is no longer a legitimate government. We the People are under no obligation to respect or obey it in any way whatsoever, and tyrannical government officials can be targeted for assassination.
Of course, nobody wants to go first. Once that die is cast, the whole country will be awash in blood. I think that is now inevitable, so we may as well get it over with.
I’m not a warrior or a martial artist, so I’m not looking forward to it. I will likely not survive it. But I’ve read enough history to see the writing on the wall, and the choice facing us is civil war or death camps.
“What are we to do, to win?”
If you have the will, then improve your own personal capabilities. By that I don’t mean any kind of “abstract spiritual journey”. This may be a cop out in some ways, but it’s where I started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZvXpO1fzfI
I try not to tell people what to do, because whether they do it is up to them. Anything I do is not going to equate to internal motivation. But if you are motivated, but do not know what path to take, learn that at least. I know it helped me get many things clear, but I cannot say it’ll 100% help others determine their path in life.
Learning it is enough. Whether you use it or not… well that’s up to you.
The ultimate proof in my eyes of a person’s resolute determination is whether they would be willing to kill or die for the cause. Since pacifists are willing to die, but not kill, obviously we got a problem in this war if all someone is willing to do is die. That alone is a powerful faith, whether Christian or otherwise, but that alone is not enough to win. Death, as well as life, must be embraced, for they are merely two sides of the same coin.
Those who have the will to kill another human being, breaking all social taboos and limitations placed upon them, will find it much easier to face the Left and to do whatever they decide needs doing.
Given that this is America, fastest way is to buy TFT’s Nuclear Weapons dvd series. Their training process works even through the net. Plenty of weapons going to be floating around sooner or later. If not in our hands, then in the hands of paid thugs.
“It is unforgivable to rise to control by exploiting the dream of this country and then use that control to destroy the dream.”
That is the Left’s favored “class warfare”. Bring down two best friends by making them fight each other to death… merely for entertainment. Breaking up a marriage by raping the woman and having the husband divorce her because he thought she was in an affair. The Left specializes in these things. But what do we specialize in?
I can’t offer anything “innovative” or “better”. For the road I’ve taken is the road I’m still on.
“But violence cannot be the way to restore the rule of law and reason; that is self-contradictory, destroying the idea by defending it. ”
You’ve seen it done before. Iraq. The surge. These methods work, at least when good people keep fighting instead of being ordered to Stand Down.
It doesn’t matter to me whether people think it is right or wrong to execute Leftists. That may never be a decision we are in a position to decide. But protecting yourself, having the power to do so, will at least give a little bit of defense to the people of the US. So that when the time comes, if they make the decision to be part of one side or the other in this war, at least they won’t be someone’s sex slave while at it.
The Left’s weapons destroy the mind, the soul, and the heart. The way of the warrior reinforces all 3.
“Achieve your mission with all your might.
Despair not until your last breath.
Make your death count!” – Motto of Isumi’s Valkyries
“Cause pain before you injure. Injure before you maim. Maim before you kill. And if you must kill, make it a clean kill. Squeeze every drop of life from the opponent. Because life is so precious, it cannot be wasted, even in death.”
“Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life.”
“‘He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desert is small,
Who fears to put it to the touch,
And win or lose it all.’ – Montrose’s Toast
Y’all got on this boat for different reasons, but y’all come to the same place. So now I’m asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this – they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They’ll swing back to the belief that they can make people… better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin’. I aim to misbehave.
—Captain Mal Reynolds (Nathan Fillion) Serenity
“To be honest I do not think whether they live or die is the matter at hand. Life is not always better than death. It is not that simple. Living and being made to live are very different things. What matters is what the person chooses of their own free will. Whether or not it can be achieved or how difficult it is.
I want you to think about this: imagine if what matters most to you was taken away against your will. If that is indeed worth less than your life”
In the end, words are not truth. Action is closer, but still not there. People are going to have to decide for themselves (even if it is a once in a life time thing) what they will countenance, what they will do, what is right, what is wrong, what is beautiful, what is ugly.
I’ve been thinking:
With all the surveillance, maybe it’s time to start talking openly about revolution. I mean the whole nine yards: Assassinating politicians, blowing up government buildings, targeting wives and children of IRS officials, you name it. Let it all hang out. The more lurid the better.
If each of us starts talking and writing like this on a continual basis, it may overwhelm the system. It’s like jamming radio signals. They won’t be able to tell the difference between actual threats and people who are just blowing smoke.
Then, when the time comes, patriots who are making real plans may be able to slip through all the noise.
Jeez, how can I say this without giving offense to anyone? Please believe that none is intended.
This is one of my favorites blogs, partly because of the insightful and reasoned comments. By all of you. But some of the rhetoric in this thread seems — how can I say this? — potentially counterproductive. Especially given current events. Hey, ix-nay on the extremeray evolutionary-ray alk-tay, ok?
If we’ve learned anything in 2013 it’s that big brother is watching.
Also: Don’t give up (quite yet) on the rule of law. Remember those elections in 2010 and resolve to make em happen again!
See http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383
“If i had not spent all that time reading, i would not have such a impressive knowledge, nor the wisdom that comes from so much experience in concentrated form delivered unto me.”
Yes, I can see you’ve read a lot, Art.
“Chapter 68
The great generals are not warlike
The great warriors do not get angry
Those who are good at defeating enemies do not engage them
Those who are good at managing people lower themselves
It is called the virtue of non-contention
It is called the power of managing people
It is called being harmonious with Heaven
The ultimate principle of the ancients”-Tao Te Ching
Those who know much, do not speak of how much they know.
“Chapter 71
To know that you do not know is highest
To not know but think you know is flawed
Only when one recognizes the fault as a fault
can one be without fault
The sages are without fault
Because they recognize the fault as a fault
That is why they are without fault”
“Chapter 75
The people’s hunger
Is due to the excess of their ruler’s taxation
So they starve
The people’s difficulty in being governed
Is due to the meddling of their ruler
So they are difficult to govern
The people’s disregard for death
Is due to the glut in their ruler’s pursuit of life
So they disregard death
Therefore those who do not strive for living
Are better than those who value living”
“Chapter 81
True words are not beautiful
Beautiful words are not true
Those who are good do not debate
Those who debate are not good
Those who know are not broad of knowledge
Those who are broad of knowledge do not know
Sages do not accumulate
The more they assist others, the more they possess
The more they give to others, the more they gain
The Tao of heaven
Benefits and does not harm
The Tao of sages
Assists and does not contend”
Yes, they had taxes even so many thousands of years ago. And they had Obamas too.
Anyone who has read the ancient texts should know what to do now, since the wisdom transfered 100%.
But I don’t think knowledge or wisdom transfers like that. Reading a book and using it to form one’s own view is one thing. Reading books for the purposes of finding authors to tell you how to think and what to think… is something else entirely.
Knowing how to think for yourself, make decisions for yourself, requires discarding the opinions, ideas, and views of other people. Just as marrying the one woman you love requires discarding emotions and intimate relationships with other potential brides. To choose one person’s happiness, means another won’t be happy.
Muslims burned the ancient books of knowledge and wisdom because the material was not contained in the Koran. They wanted you to read and obey the Koran. Because reading something and then doing whatever it says… is pretty useful for peace (peace=slavery).
Those who cannot change themselves for the better… those who do not even want to, have no ability to change the world and its people.
The people in government do not possess a superior morality to the general public. In fact, the current administration has demonstrated it does not respect individual dignity and does not value human life equally. There is absolutely no reason to trust these individuals. They must be kept in check by competing interests, including all American citizens.