Europe’s still there
It’s easy to concentrate on the election here and miss what’s happening in Europe, such as, for example, Sarkozy’s threatened ousting in the impending French election by socialist challenger Hollande. It’s all about the economy, stupid:
With the highest joblessness in 12 years and an economy barely growing, Sarkozy has trailed Hollande in every poll in a head-to-head match in the past 11 months. Hollande promises more spending and higher taxes, saying Sarkozy’s tax cuts worsened French finances and failed to create jobs. Sarkozy claims credit for spending cuts and a retirement-age increase that he says warded off the worst of the euro debt crisis turmoil.
The French election has several rounds, of which Sunday’s is only the first, to narrow down the field—almost certainly to Sarkozy vs. Hollande, who leads so far.
There there’s the trial of Anders Breivik, home-grown Norwegian terrorist mass murderer. You can be forgiven for not wanting to revisit that story of almost unimaginable cruelty and horror, but in the Norwegian legal system Breivik gets a chance to speak at length at his trial and read a two-hour-long statement describing his crimes step by bloody step:
The 33-year-old spent two hours on Friday afternoon giving a bullet-by-bullet account of what he refers to as his “operation” on the island of Uté¸ya., where the youth wing of Norway’s Labour party was holding its annual summer camp. He shot and killed 67 people on the island that day; another fell off a cliff and died trying to escape. One more, a 17-year-old called Hé¥kon é˜degaard, drowned while attempting to swim away.
Leaning back in his chair, twizzling a pen in his right hand, Breivik ”“ flushed, but never losing control ”” told of how some of the children he killed were so paralysed with fear that he had time to reload his rifle before shooting them. He’d never seen such a thing, he said ”“ not even on TV.
He recalled teenagers “playing dead” whom he slowly approached before shooting them at close range.
Relatives of those he had killed hugged each other. Some who had dodged his bullets stared straight ahead. There were tears in the eyes of some of the most experienced journalists in the courtroom. Lawyers bit their lips as they listened to Breivik, in a clear, measured voice, remember how he decided halfway through the massacre to “look for places where I would naturally try to hide.”
One of the biggest questions in the trial is whether Breivik is insane, which in Norway means too psychotic too control his actions. Some psychiatrists have argued that he is, but Breivik himself says no and from what I’ve heard I would most definitely agree with him, although I’m not a psychiatrist.
Here’s Breivik on the subject:
“This case is very simple,” said Breivik. “I’m not a psychiatric case and I am sane … it’s very important to see the difference between political extremism and lunacy in a clinical sense.”
Questioned by his own lawyers how he was able to carry out the attacks, he described a “meditation” technique he had developed which mixed “Christian prayer” and Japanese “Bushido warrior codex” practised by Samurai fighters.
He insisted he was a “nice person” who was capable of empathising with those whose lives he had ruined, but that he had chosen not to as a self-preservation technique. “In many ways it is a protection mechanism,” he said. “First of all, if you are going to be capable of executing such a bloody and horrendous operation you need to work on your mind, your psyche for years. We have seen from military traditions you cannot send an unprepared person into war.”
Asked how he was able to talk about the atrocities in such an impassive manner, Breivik said he had learnt to rely on “technical, de-emotionalised language” ”” “if I was going to use normalised language it would not have been possible” to go through police interviews and “this trial”, he added. “People say, ‘he must be a monster, he cannot be from this planet, he must have no emotions and empathy left’, but this has to do with preparing and training.”
Questioned as to his client’s sanity after the end of the court session, Geir Lippestad, Breivik’s defence lawyer, said: “It’s not just a coincidence that very skilled experts have arrived at different conclusions.”
How can anyone read this and not understand that evil exists. But I know there are those who don’t and will find a way to make this fit their narrative.
This is not evil in the the traditional sense. It is a soulless one. I have met its’ like in my life. This creatures’ (for it is neither human nor animal) fate will not be be what it deserves, unfortunately.
james: see this.
Re: James: see this.
Yes, an excellent description. I will add that why they have no souls is debatable, that they GAVE them up on their own is not. I am not particularly religious, but they are damned and know it.
No question Breivik and Atta are peas from the same immoral pod, except Breivik shows none of Atta’s anger.
Now both Breivik and Norway are objects of clinical curiosity. Both are quite frank about themselves.
Norway has chosen to become a society of invertebrates; the same (genome-wise) people that fought the Nazis 70 years ago with zero chance for victory has become this meek and herdable thing, sucking on the North Sea oil teat, awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Arafat and to Obama, self-immolating in slow motion: No babies, more Muzzies.
The more important story, however, is the French election tomorrow. By most accounts, France will double down to greater socialism, and the ECB had thus better ramp up. Perhaps they’ve caught the illness from Norway. Perhaps it’s prions.
Very, very interesting.
I just read (skimmed) the Alan Dershowitz thread and man there were great comments and thought. Just thot I would so note. Sorry to have missed it.
Is Breivik any different than your average Muslim of whom the Koran informs same.
So how is Breivik any different from the SS of Germany or, for that matter, the British and American bomber crews that burned out the heart of Hamburg, killing some sixty thousand civilians in one night? What is the difference between one man convincing himself that he is at war and must do unspeakable things and a government convincing thousand or even millions of men they are at war and must do unspeakable things?
All through the Cold War the crews in the missile siloswould train to turn those keys whicjh would have killed millions. They did not have to train to turn keys, we all know how to unlock our front doors but they trained to de-sensitive themselves from the mass slaughter.
The Nazi bigwigs hated Christianity but convinced Germany that they were fighting on behalf of Christianity against “Godless communism”, hundreds of thousands of Germans and other Europeans volunteered for the Eastern Front.
Sorry, it is easy to do horrible things. People have been doing it since Cain got really jealous of Able.
Malachi Martin, author of “Hostage To The Devil” may call it complete, perfect demonic possession. Not an excuse. He invited them.
Neo, and James—just yesterday I was in Nablus of the West Bank. I was looking for a few minutes into the eyes of one of the suicide bombers on a large poster celebrating him. Full of trauma and dead, those eyes. Almost in a trance state. These pictures were taken right before their murderous attacks. I’ve also looked into the eyes of a demon possessed woman and it was pure revulsion I felt. I have spent a number of years as a psychiatric technician so I know psychosis, and this was NOT psychosis. It’s actually quite painful to look directly into the eyes. There was other phenomena involved as well. Like out of a movie. The point is, personified evil can inhabit human beings as a highjacker.
Complete lack of conscience and compassion does not make a person clinically insane. It only makes him a psychopath, which is not the same as psychotic. He could control himself all right, he simply preferred not to. American prisons are full of psychopaths, up to 80% of all inmates convicted in violent crimes.
Breivik is an Iceman, a killer who can kill without remorse or pity.
Channeled into a more legal path he would be an executioner or a Sniper.
Instead he is a killer of children.
He should be shot like the rabid animal he is.
There is a story about Goebbels discussing party affairs. The question came to the executioners.
“We say to those whose nerves have broken, take your pensions, go.”
Obviously, not everybody could do it continually.
If Breivik is a sociopath, it would make me feel better. I’m afraid that he’s just a normal man who chose evil. There’s all sorts of evil everyday, and most of it is a choice to ignore or to cooperate with evil doers.
I was thinking about Bernadette Sugrim, wife of convicted murderer Besham Sugrim, who has been making the rounds of TODAY and other talk shows. She talks about creating a fantasy to escape her fear, but I think she chose evil. In 2003 he killed a woman in their family van, then told her about it. No one has called her on the fact that she went along with his attempt to frame his father for a murder he committed in 1996, or that she got him a handgun after the second murder.
If you were a slave owner in the South or a radical abolitionist in the North, making up your mind about John Brown was likely a no-brainer. For people in the middle, who likely felt he had drawn very bad conclusions from very good principles, it wasn’t so simple. That’s what where I am on this one.
One of the things that makes Breivik’s deeds evil is that he was acting outside the boundaries of war. He was a lone actor and a terrorist.
Also, Breivik purposely targeted children and teenagers who were going about their normal lives, enjoying themselves. Very different from collateral damage in war from bombings that were mainly strategic (although when the bombings were merely to break down enemy morale by killing a lot of civilians, that’s very problematic; but it still is not the same as Breivik the lone judge, jury, and executioner).
See this.
I think I hate this guy even more than I hate Obomney.
Breivik had a specific aim. The camp was holding a kind of retreat for the children of the leading, very liberal, party. One of the fun things was practicing supporting a Palestinian flotilla. IOW, not just a fun time in the woods for a bunch of kids, and the age was not jr. hi, either.
Breivik could expect these folks, many in just a few years, to be greased into various influential positions in politics, academics, journalism. And he could expect them to continue what he considered their suicidal policies on immigration from Muslim countries.
Considering his goal, this was a very savvy hit.
It remains to be seen if it has the effect he planned for, but the sheer loss of life in such a small country tells us that it must reduce the party’s next generation.
In other words, he may have succeeded.
His choice of next generation politicians — for that was the purpose of the conclave — makes him a mass assassin.
As for his psychological defenses — he rationalizes in the exact same manner as the SD truppen of Shoah infamy.
At least most of the SD HAD TO STAY BOMBED ON BOOZE — ABB is a stone-cold killer.
=====
And yet, Oslo is the top most defender of murderous jihadis. Some of the VERY worst terrorists hide in plain sight on the streets of Oslo.
If not ABB — what will it take for Norway to come to its senses?
blert
A conundrum, no?
I suspect a Muslim attack on the scale of Breivik’s attack won’t do it. The Blob of Norwegian top society seems to have a huge ability to allow their less-favored countrymen to suffer while blaming them for it. Depending on who’s doing the attacking. The no-go zones and the rape epidemic don’t seem to make much difference.
On the other hand, talking about it might get somebody nailed for hate speech.
I believe the first rescuer to the island was a German on vacation. Might be he was the nearest, or it might be that Norway has been socialized into impotent passivity.
Richard Aubrey: Oh, I’m quite familiar with Breivik’s reasoning.
As I said, he’s a terrorist. It is exactly and precisely the reasoning Palestinian terrorists use to kill Israeli children: that they will grow up to be Israeli soldiers.
neo
It’s a step beyond that. He killed the kids who were going to grow up [he figured] to be the next generation of leaders. IOW, if it were in the Israel situation, the next generation of Netanyahu and his like. Not just the ordinary soldier.
Decapitating a party and a movement is different than starting at the bottom.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/us/politics/shift-on-executive-powers-let-obama-bypass-congress.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
no other place to put it…
we now return to our thread in progress…
One of the things that makes Breivik’s deeds evil is that he was acting outside the boundaries of war. He was a lone actor and a terrorist.
that is an assumption…
no?
you are assuming that no state ever trains people and always avows their jobs with the state.
i can tell you right now, there are several government agencies which wont even confirm a person works for them, ever.
this is the root to the conspiracy on Kennedy… and not the junk as to extra shooters, and so on… but the junk of whether or not he worked with the soviets, or Cubans.
Remember, Kennedy and the US had just tried to assassinate Castro and Castro at the time said, mr Kennedy, you are vulnerable too.
the whole idea of such missions is that the lines going back to the perpetrators or those who pull the strings on the perpetrators are not available.
a GREAT example would be the laptop captured from FARK showing Chavez working with them…
the lone wolf thing is nothing but the socialists not wanting (like Islamist fronts) to take credit for things.
and another question here.
WHAT ARE THE BOUNDARIES OF WAR?
are you saying his acts are not war? for compared to acts done by socialists in war, and others, his is not all that
are you saying that only the state can declare it and all other wars are not valid?
then you better go stop the feminists, who are in a socialist war for the totalitarian take over of the US… they SAY so..
what if the state half gives permission like the bounties on zimmerman by the panthers?
and what of the war of the socialists against capitalism… isn’t their whole thing outside of war? if not, then why are we not arresting them for being soviets?
this is probably too late given other thread have started… but really, what does that parrot line you have internalized without question mean?
it really has no meaning..
at least not in the real world
in the fake world it says that no one that does a bad things acts by the actions of a state unless its a democratically elected capitalist one… then you can ignore holodomar, and castigate for mai lai (except that holodomar was the states orders, and mai lai was individual nut job)
if all war is deception, teaching people that some acts are outside of war… might be one great deception… no?
what else does that deception say? or train you to think?
well… if russia sends someone to your country to poison someone, say with thalium or polonium, then its just a lone wolf.. and until the soviets admit to it, he will be a lne wolf…
so you see. his escape to the soviets, and then his getting a political position with them so he cant be extradited and has political immunity… still means he is a lone wolf, not a active state member doing state things.
the SAD part is that such lone wolf actions and such ARE plan and parcel to ACTIVE measures.
what does the CIA do?
well not what they show in the movies
SPIES are not mostly people you send to other countries
spies are people you find in other countries that you manipulate…
thats where the press (purposefully?) mixes it up. the spies from russia that were here, were not spies, they were recruiters and case handlers… ie. they were looking for americans to be the spies…
so the whole idea is to facilitate a secret connection with someone and get them to act on your behalf. that can be to trade secrets… to act on things… or in the case of breveik, and others… to cause mayhem they can then use politically.
after all.. if your idea is to attack a state, and the state has civilians each armed with munitions and machine guns… then perhaps you have to facilitate their shutting that down and removing them, before you attack. no?
and thats the point.
the minute you s ay lone wolf, you then start to look away from reality as no one is a lone wolf.
heck… we didnt find out that lattimore was a confirmed spy till AFTER he smeared mcarthy and had a career of it… then venona..
so then lattimore was not a lone wolf… or acting on his own, his orders were from the CPUSA, which got their orders from the commitern
so do not get into this leftist bs that a revolutionary for us, who is not successful, or does something not acceptable, is a lone wolf.
hitler was with stalin till he was a lone wolf to
and if the secret treaty was not revealed… we would still think he was a lone wolf.. and forget he was a socialist fulfiling socialist ends which are still on the table.
Ah, this would be the Swedes, dude, not the Norwegians.
Why is that so hard for people to keep straight? I’ve never had any difficulty.
Norway is to Sweden & Denmark sort of what Scotland is to England. A distinct culture largely overwhelmed by the greater resources of the neighboring ones, and mostly subjugated as a result. Norway has spent most of the last millennium under Denmark’s and Sweden’s thumb, much as Scotland has under England’s, not exactly melded into them, but never really independent.
As far as their behavior in WWII, it was pretty much the same as the French, and we ALL know what manly men THEY all are…