Gaddafi captured, Gaddafi killed?

We’re getting conflicting reports, but something seems to be going on in Libya with Gaddafi. He appears to have been either captured or killed:

National Transitional Council official Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters earlier that Gaddafi was captured and wounded in both legs at dawn on Thursday as he tried to flee in a convoy which NATO warplanes attacked.

“He was also hit in his head,” the official said. “There was a lot of firing against his group and he died.”

There was no independent confirmation of his remarks.

It’s impossible to tell what is true and what is not, but I suppose it will emerge pretty soon. In the meantime, these details seem like they may have been somewhat embroidered:

The former Libyan dictator was reportedly found cowering in a hole in the ground at the centre of Sirte…Rebels said he had been armed with a golden pistol when he was found…

A golden pistol? What could that be about?

Could be real, maybe not..

Unless that Austrian dude was really a woman, the only remains of him is not the remains of him…

ODESSA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODESSA

Hilfsverein der Deutschen Juden
www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206371.pdf

so the idea of him not being dead, or bin laden not being dead… is not so far fetched… there is no way to know either way given the players and people in our state and dissimulation. you either pick one or accept you don’t know and cant know

historically speaking, the leaders tend not to be able to disappear. ie, they cant keep their mouths shut and dont want to live humbled lives less than what they had… so they tend to get caught if they flee..

i cant NOT recall any time in modern history where a leader of a state fled in secret and had a dead man take his place.

the story of it is common enough from fairy tale to others, but the reality of it is unknown.

HOWEVER, the ONE EXCEPTION to the above is the soviets… (of course)

From lenin safely holing himself up in germany until all the dirty work was done in russia… to russian spies and operatives disappearing and ending up there with a position in state so that they cant be prosecuted or sent back for trial of any sourt…

there are LOTS of such escapes and near things for heads of organizations and so on… but heads of countries? not so much…

Netaji maybe… (Subhas Chandra Bose)

was an Indian revolutionary who led an Indian national political and military force against Britain and the Western powers during World War II. Bose was one of the most prominent leaders in the Indian independence movement and is a legendary figure in India today. Bose was born on 23 January 1897 in Cuttack, Orissa to Janakinath Bose and Prabhabati Devi.

He is presumed to have died 18 August 1945 from injuries sustained in an alleged aircraft crash in Taihoku (Taipei). However, no actual evidence of his death on that day has been authenticated and many committees were set up by the government of India to investigate the mystery of his presumed death.

however to get more you have to go to
Death of Subhas Chandra Bose to get a mention: it has also been alleged at various times that the Indian government and political leadership was aware that Bose may have been alive, and according to one theory, in captivity in Soviet Union,[3][4] but chose to ignore or actively collaborate to suppress this information after Independence.

the times uk newspapers links to the new information, leads to quaddaffy… go figure

Secret files shed light on death of Subhas Chandra Bose, rebel who wanted Nazi support to free India – Times Online
.
and

Subhas Chandra Bose: The Afterlife of India’s Fascist Leader

On September 16th, 1985, in a dilapidated house in Faizabad, formerly the capital of Oudh province in India, a reclusive holy man known as Bhagwanji or Gumnami Baba (‘the saint with no name’) breathed his last. Locals had long suspected that he was none other than Subhas Chandra Bose (1897-1945), the Indian quasi-Fascist leader who in the 1930s had advocated a violent revolution against the British Empire to gain total independence for India.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Although Netaji (Great Leader) Bose was reported killed in an air crash in August 1945, while trying to escape to the Soviet Union, many believed then and continue to believe now that, helped by his Japanese allies, he faked his death, reached Russia and returned to India many years later to lead the secret life of a hermit. Surprisingly for a poor sadhu (mystic) the ‘saint with no name’ left behind many trunks of possessions and in 1986

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It was his collection of books that was most thought-provoking. Bear in mind that Bose had received an English education (finishing at Cambridge University) and, in the eyes of the British, had committed war crimes against them possibly escaping to the Soviet Union; then appreciate, for example, Gulliver’s Travels, P.G. Wodehouse’s The Inimitable Jeeves, the scarcely available International Military Tribunal for the Far East, The History of the Freedom Movement in India, The Last Days of the Raj, Moscow’s Shadow Over West Bengal and Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago. This could not be the bedtime reading of a typical sadhu.

was he?

In his inquiry report, completed in 2006, Justice Mukherjee was categoric. He concluded: ‘Netaji Bose is dead [a safe bet as he would have been 109]. He did not die in the plane crash as alleged and the ashes in the Japanese temple in Tokyo [maintained by the Indian government since 1945] are not of Netaji.’

Bose’s admirers believe the Congress Party will never allow the truth about their hero to be known because it is the party of the Nehru family and Jawaharlal Nehru (1889-1964) and Subhas Bose were bitter rivals. Some go further and believe that Prime Minister Nehru conspired with the Russians to prevent Bose returning to India after Independence because he felt threatened by him; hence the cover-up.

The most persistent voice of the ‘Bose in Russia’ group belongs to a Professor of International Affairs at Kolkata’s Jadhavpur University, Dr Purabi Roy who specialises in Indo-Russian relations. She is convinced that Bose arrived in Russia and possibly died there because she dismisses any sadhu—in—Faizabad connection. She also related to me word-of-mouth ‘evidence’, the most plausible of which came from her colleague in the Russian Institute of Oriental Studies, former USSR General Alexander Kolesnikov. He told her that he had seen a file that noted the minutes of a Politburo meeting of August 1946 when Voroshilov, Mikoyan, Molotov and others discussed whether Bose should be allowed to stay in the Soviet Union. Dr Roy’s attempts to see this file ended in failure, however. At her urging, the Mukherjee Commission went to the Russian Federation, visited six archives and interviewed four witnesses though not Kolesnikov who was ordered abroad on the eve of his appearance.

more in next post so its not too long….

Comments

Gaddafi captured, Gaddafi killed? — 12 Comments

Mr. Frank on October 20, 2011 at 9:29 am said:

Mr. Assad’s mind must be concentrated today.
Sergey on October 20, 2011 at 10:27 am said:

EuroNews just has shown reportage from Sirte. Quite graphic, but this looks very like Qaddafi.
Artfldgr on October 20, 2011 at 11:06 am said:

Could be real, maybe not..

Unless that Austrian dude was really a woman, the only remains of him is not the remains of him…

ODESSA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ODESSA

Hilfsverein der Deutschen Juden
www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206371.pdf

so the idea of him not being dead, or bin laden not being dead… is not so far fetched… there is no way to know either way given the players and people in our state and dissimulation. you either pick one or accept you don’t know and cant know

historically speaking, the leaders tend not to be able to disappear. ie, they cant keep their mouths shut and dont want to live humbled lives less than what they had… so they tend to get caught if they flee..

i cant NOT recall any time in modern history where a leader of a state fled in secret and had a dead man take his place.

the story of it is common enough from fairy tale to others, but the reality of it is unknown.

HOWEVER, the ONE EXCEPTION to the above is the soviets… (of course)

From lenin safely holing himself up in germany until all the dirty work was done in russia… to russian spies and operatives disappearing and ending up there with a position in state so that they cant be prosecuted or sent back for trial of any sourt…

there are LOTS of such escapes and near things for heads of organizations and so on… but heads of countries? not so much…

Netaji maybe… (Subhas Chandra Bose)

was an Indian revolutionary who led an Indian national political and military force against Britain and the Western powers during World War II. Bose was one of the most prominent leaders in the Indian independence movement and is a legendary figure in India today. Bose was born on 23 January 1897 in Cuttack, Orissa to Janakinath Bose and Prabhabati Devi.

He is presumed to have died 18 August 1945 from injuries sustained in an alleged aircraft crash in Taihoku (Taipei). However, no actual evidence of his death on that day has been authenticated and many committees were set up by the government of India to investigate the mystery of his presumed death.

however to get more you have to go to
Death of Subhas Chandra Bose to get a mention: it has also been alleged at various times that the Indian government and political leadership was aware that Bose may have been alive, and according to one theory, in captivity in Soviet Union,[3][4] but chose to ignore or actively collaborate to suppress this information after Independence.

the times uk newspapers links to the new information, leads to quaddaffy… go figure

Secret files shed light on death of Subhas Chandra Bose, rebel who wanted Nazi support to free India – Times Online
.
and

Subhas Chandra Bose: The Afterlife of India’s Fascist Leader

On September 16th, 1985, in a dilapidated house in Faizabad, formerly the capital of Oudh province in India, a reclusive holy man known as Bhagwanji or Gumnami Baba (‘the saint with no name’) breathed his last. Locals had long suspected that he was none other than Subhas Chandra Bose (1897-1945), the Indian quasi-Fascist leader who in the 1930s had advocated a violent revolution against the British Empire to gain total independence for India.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Although Netaji (Great Leader) Bose was reported killed in an air crash in August 1945, while trying to escape to the Soviet Union, many believed then and continue to believe now that, helped by his Japanese allies, he faked his death, reached Russia and returned to India many years later to lead the secret life of a hermit. Surprisingly for a poor sadhu (mystic) the ‘saint with no name’ left behind many trunks of possessions and in 1986

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It was his collection of books that was most thought-provoking. Bear in mind that Bose had received an English education (finishing at Cambridge University) and, in the eyes of the British, had committed war crimes against them possibly escaping to the Soviet Union; then appreciate, for example, Gulliver’s Travels, P.G. Wodehouse’s The Inimitable Jeeves, the scarcely available International Military Tribunal for the Far East, The History of the Freedom Movement in India, The Last Days of the Raj, Moscow’s Shadow Over West Bengal and Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago. This could not be the bedtime reading of a typical sadhu.

was he?

In his inquiry report, completed in 2006, Justice Mukherjee was categoric. He concluded: ‘Netaji Bose is dead [a safe bet as he would have been 109]. He did not die in the plane crash as alleged and the ashes in the Japanese temple in Tokyo [maintained by the Indian government since 1945] are not of Netaji.’

Bose’s admirers believe the Congress Party will never allow the truth about their hero to be known because it is the party of the Nehru family and Jawaharlal Nehru (1889-1964) and Subhas Bose were bitter rivals. Some go further and believe that Prime Minister Nehru conspired with the Russians to prevent Bose returning to India after Independence because he felt threatened by him; hence the cover-up.

The most persistent voice of the ‘Bose in Russia’ group belongs to a Professor of International Affairs at Kolkata’s Jadhavpur University, Dr Purabi Roy who specialises in Indo-Russian relations. She is convinced that Bose arrived in Russia and possibly died there because she dismisses any sadhu—in—Faizabad connection. She also related to me word-of-mouth ‘evidence’, the most plausible of which came from her colleague in the Russian Institute of Oriental Studies, former USSR General Alexander Kolesnikov. He told her that he had seen a file that noted the minutes of a Politburo meeting of August 1946 when Voroshilov, Mikoyan, Molotov and others discussed whether Bose should be allowed to stay in the Soviet Union. Dr Roy’s attempts to see this file ended in failure, however. At her urging, the Mukherjee Commission went to the Russian Federation, visited six archives and interviewed four witnesses though not Kolesnikov who was ordered abroad on the eve of his appearance.

you can read more here: http://www.historytoday.com/hugh-purcell/subhas-chandra-bose-afterlife-india%E2%80%99s-fascist-leader

more in next post so its not too long….
Alex on October 20, 2011 at 11:08 am said:

Follow this link for a moderately graphic photo of what looks like Gaddafi:

http://twitpic.com/73245p
Artfldgr on October 20, 2011 at 11:20 am said:

the term used would be exfiltration…

the question being whether or not he was exfiltrated and another takes his place can not be answered in a state which does not transparently say…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_action_%28military%29#Exfiltration
Gray on October 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm said:

I’m feeling a little icky about the media celebration of the US-sponsored mob lynching of the recognized leader of a country.

Hey, Saddam got a trial. Osama was an outlaw. Mubarak is sitting in jail. Heck, even Manuel Noriega is still rotting in prison. Even the nazi’s got trials followed by a righteous hanging….

Ceaucescu and his bitch were lynched, but not under US imprimature…

This is really kinda ugly. I don’t feel “OK’ about it. The media celebration and the victory dance in the rose garden is making me feel really icky.

This isn’t justice. This isn’t how a Superpower does things.
armchair pessimist on October 20, 2011 at 4:14 pm said:

The Iran fiasco of 30 years ago cured me permanently of any fondness for “democracy” in that colon of hell known as the Middle East.
John on October 21, 2011 at 2:03 am said:

So what now for Libya? Will there be ongoing civil wars with different factions fighting for control? Or will the people push for order and move toward becoming a good citizen of the world? Will it become the next Iran and push terrorist activities around the world? Will it become the next haven for Muslim terrorists?

Do you think Obama or anyone in his administration has a plan?
TR on October 21, 2011 at 4:59 am said:

Firstly, I would like to point out that this following line in my comment maybe incorrect, but I have heard that it is true: 1) if the [civil war-type conflict in Lybia], is a war- Mr. Obama sent the U.S. military into it without the needed authorization from Congress to go to war.

2) if the [U.S. military’s actions in Libya’s civil war-type conflict] are a “military action”, then Mr. Obama put the U.S. military into the conflict, without [the needed authorization from the Congress to go to a military conflict.]

I am not happy or glad that Mr. Gaddafi has been killed, but I do feel that he was a greedy man who supported huge terrorist acts and huge acts of crime-therefore, I am relieved that he is not running a country, or supporting criminals anymore.

I believe that Mr. Obama put us, the U.S., into the war in Libya, without getting legal permission to do so, from the U.S. Congress. One of my hopes are that he does not put us into any other wars without permission. Another hope of mine, is that he doesn’t go into a war, without Congress’ backing, that is too big for him to handle…I hope that he does not make giant military mistakes that former heads of state have done…such as sending an army to Russia during the winter.

Never heard of the mistake of attacking Russia in the winter? Then please look up Napoleon Bonaparte, or other tyrants, such as a European tyrant/chancellor, who did a winter-attack on Russia, in the 20th century.
james on October 21, 2011 at 6:20 am said:

I am hearing that NATO ground forces got to him first, shot him in the legs then turned him over to locals. The locals then finished the job. “We came, we saw , we killed” by forces not authorized to be in a war that didn’t exist.
Jewel on October 21, 2011 at 9:22 am said:

In for a penny, in for a pounding. Libya’s going to be governed by a bunch of inbred thugs with their palms wanting to be greased. Or else. Just another Extortion Vampire State.
Bob from Virginia on October 21, 2011 at 10:34 am said:

Supposedly among Daffy’s last words were “what did I ever do to you?” Interesting choice of words if so. Not even “I bet you can’t hit me from this distance” could be more provocative.

As for what comes next, the Islamists will probably organize the fastest, get outside support and arms, claim the initial elections were rigged or the NTC is a Zionist front, have a civil war with outside assistance from other Jihadis followed by another election in which they will win 99% of the vote. Meanwhile the humanitarian Arab League and freedom loving Nato states stand in line to sign oil leases at more favorable rates than would be possible with a truly democratic government.

Does this prediction make me a conspiracy nut or realist?

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Gaddafi captured, Gaddafi killed?

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Gaddafi captured, Gaddafi killed? — 12 Comments

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