Getting Osama: how much do we need to know?
The killing of Osama may have been almost perfectly executed, but the aftermath has certainly been a mess.
One of the many puzzling aspects of the whole thing has been the multiple sources of highly conflicting information. Was Osama defending himself? Was there a firefight? How did his wife get wounded? Why is there a 25-minute gap in the tape? And, of course, from those now known as “deathers,” was he killed at all?
Perhaps—and this is putting the kindest spin on it—the information was meant to be confusing and contradictory, even to mislead us. Because how much do we really need to know, and how much is too dangerous for the world to know?
That’s one of the problems with covert operations. In a country that has generally believed in the public’s need to be informed, the secrecy that is necessarily involved in clandestine murders of bad guys goes against that policy.
For example, even divulging that a cell phone call from a courier may have led to the Bin Laden hideout location could be counterproductive. The terrorists will be even more careful next time, and they have already been quite careful. And did the world need to know the exact body of water in which Osama’s body was buried (see this for possible consequences)? And then there are all of these new details that have been leaked (the CIA is officially mum on the subject) about the safe house from which Osama was surveilled.
It was in the neighborhood. It was occupied by “case officers and recruited informants.” This may indicate that—at least for this operation—the CIA used some Abbottabad locals or at least Pakistanis. Could the dissemination of this information compromise their cover? After all, it’s not an especially densely-occupied area. Is it necessary for us—and the rest of the world, including the terrorists—to learn that much, curious though we may be?
And how much do we really know? How much of what we think we know is false?
And here we find internal security at odds with the basis for a free and sovereign democratic republic — The people, “being in charge”, need to know.
And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. What we need is severe consequences for and clear failure to act in a rightful manner (i.e., some decision made towards one’s benefit as a government employee or bureaucrat as opposed to the national interest) — with ZERO acceptance of the idea of a “statute of limitations” — if this is found out 60 years from now, any financial reward will be taken back, including from your heirs, and, if you’re alive, you WILL be jailed, even if you’re 95.
I’m, as I’ve intimated, of the opinion that Osama was dead in 2004 or earlier in Tora Bora, and that his death has been kept quiet because it did not make sense to make an Islamic martyr to the cause. He’s been “out of play” long enough that his “loss” is more somewhat demoralizing to the terrorist enemy than it is likely to be galvanizing. So they “killed” him.
I don’t really care that much if this is true or not, so I’m really not much of a conspiracy theorist, I think the above notion fits the facts better than the notion he was alive — his speeches following 2004 were of an entirely different tone and highly conciliatory as opposed to full of fire and anger than his prior ones — that “video” released on the eve of the election in 2004 sounded like it was written by Michael Moore.
The SEALS involved in this mission, maybe two or three needed to know what the hell was going on, and the rest actually believe they were after OBL. The handling of the body is sufficient that there’s no real way to verify WHO was killed that night, and the body was handled in clear and blatant violation of Islamic procedures, which conveniently left no options for verification, and, really, made no rational sense. “Burial At Sea”? REALLY? What, the guy was a respected ADMIRAL or something?
…And so forth. It all fits the facts, and, in this case, one is led to apply Occam’s Razor to say that the government wanted to be certain no one had a chance to falsify their claims that it was OBL, ergo it was not OBL.
And, really, I can see a number of legitimate reasons for this, not the least of which was the timing for Obama. I’d also take a close look at any reports that have come out in the last week or two, as creating a distraction against such is a common tactic for using this kind of event. Remember, there were several interesting but unnoticed reports which came out in the middle of Clinton’s perjury impeachment (and, BTW, I’d suggest we need to keep referring to it as this — make it a habit to refer to it this way, hammering it home — since the bastards are STILL trying to sell it as “on trial for sex”)
You’ll never know.
You’ll never know.
There have been reports that Obama was “scared” and “confused” just before he was shot.
He was probably confused he expected that the Seals would be reading him his Miranda rights instead of looking like they were gonna shoot him. 🙂
“He was probably confused because he”…
Well i watched “Trinity and Beyond” on Netflix the other night which showed recently declassified footage of nuclear bomb test in the 1940’s and 50’s. So in 60 years we may find out what actually happened with Osama.
What a great line–“The killing of Osama may have been almost perfectly executed, but the aftermath has certainly been a mess.”
Only the Obama Administration could make a mess of the great effort by an elite Navy Seal team.
You need to change “Obama” to “Osama”: “in which Obama’s body was buried” and “from which Obama was surveilled”.
[note from neo-neocon: good eye! I’ve fixed it. I guess my keyboard is just so used to typing “Obama.”]
Wow. Good catch Lisa. Obama. Osama. Obama Osama. I’ll be in the back.
Ben Shapiro has a good article titled “Where is Obama’s popularity bounce?” I think the bounce has been damped by all the contradictory details. So one answer to “How much do we need to know?” is enough to believe the account.
The better answer focuses more on national security and the protection of American interests which would curtail about all the nefarious leaks and disclosures. There shouldn’t even be a discussion. That fact that there is shows the success of the strategy of those who hate America and enlisted the academics and universities to “rethink” and “start a dialogue.” Things that previously needed no discussion were “deconstructed” and now we are the only nation in the world which reveals its secrets, strategies, and plans.
Martyrs Sea! I bet heads will explode when Osama’s followers learn that he was really dumped into the Bay of Pigs.
I wonder how much of the info is released so as to stimulate chatter and movements that can be followed. The more confusion, especially among the lower AQ levels and the cannon fodder, the greater the chance that someone will do something dumb. I just hope Zawahiri is sweating.
Couldn’t you imagine the hell that would visit your life if your phone number just happened to be one sewn into Osama’s clothes. 🙂
why didn’t they just go in, snag him and make him disappear quietly? that way, AQ would have had to come out and ask what the heck happened to him!
of course, having OBL’s head on a stick in the middle of Ground Zero as a notification rather than a press conference would have been cool too.
The whole Washington responsibility was amateurish.
This wasn’t 3AM. It developed over a significant period of time with almost inexorable certainty. Still, BHO was not ready when decision time came. He needed 16 hours to consult with whom?
Then the stories. Good grief. There should have been a story in place for those who were going to talk; and a firm message to every one else to keep their mouths shut.
Finally, pictures no pictures. No body. Expletive deleted.
Neo. I think neither we nor the rest of the world needed to know very much. This would be my statement by Carney or whoever was speaking for the Administrations. “As a result of careful analysis of information developed during the Bush administration, Bin Laden was located. Over time his location was confirmed by excellent Intelligence work and observation; then the Warriors were launched and accomplished the mission. President Obama thanks the Intelligence professionals, the Warriors and the operational commanders who made this possible. He also salutes George W. Bush for enduring years of abuse by idiots who objected to the very policies that made this possible.” Period. No further discussion.
Right now the American people need to know very little about how this operation was developed and carried out. 5 or 20 years from now it all should be made public.
Yet, I strongly favor releasing the photos of OBL’s corpse. The argument that it is inflammatory does not hold water. The photos from Abu Ghraib were paraded around by the MSM ad nauseum and not considered inflammatory. Why are photos of a dead OBL suddenly “spiking the football”?
Oldflyer says, “This would be my statement by Carney or whoever was speaking for the Administration…”
I share your wish, but it is a wish made in vain. Such humility will never come from this cabal of narcissists.
OT . . .
I would like to know more about Valerie Jarrett. This woman needs to be discussed more. I’ll probably repeat myself on a future thread.
“I would like to know more about Valerie Jarrett.”
Bottom line: The real woman behind the throne is not named Michelle.
And there’s this, which starts a whole new group of hares to chase:
http://www.therightscoop.com/levin-talks-with-former-special-ops-caller-about-bin-laden-raid/
This caller who seems to be well versed in how these military raids go down (he says he’s been in airborne raids, seaborne raids, and heli-borne raids) and he seems to think what happened in the bin Laden raid didn’t go as planned and now the administration is covering it up. It’s a very interesting phone call, the longest one I’ve ever heard Levin take on the air.
Actually, Igor, we don’t need to know. In a representative democracy, that’s what our directly-elected officials–senators and Congressmen–are for. We elect them to work for our interests, and that includes being briefed on sensitive national security operations that should not receive a full public disclosure. Why? Every representative’s constituency contains some small percentage of people who “can’t handle the truth”, whether through political inclination, mental incompetence, or sympathy with the target. I see no particular need to give them (or me, who supports this operation completely) all the gory details, especially those that could compromise a similar operation in the future. Don’t trust your Congressman or Senator to do right by you? Elect another one, or run yourself. Health care, bail-out plans, energy self-sufficiency–sure, discuss them openly, in great detail. Covert raids against terrorist leaders? Just the highlights, please.
Oldflyer, you are 100% right! But politicians, particularly of the donkey persuasion, will never understand.
No pictures! The picture of Bin Laden after a .45 caliber double-tap at point-blank range won’t be gruesome, it will look like a Romero movie. Then
the lefties will run around saying, “Oh my, why did they use such big bullets! That should be outlawed!” Pictures? We don’t need no stinkin’ pictures!