So, does this mean…
…that if a few million people came to the Mall in DC protesting the Obama administration and demanding his resignation, he’d say “the people have spoken” and pack his bags and go home to Chicago?
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
Of course, he would.
…that if a few million people came to the Mall in DC protesting the Obama administration and demanding his resignation, he’d say “the people have spoken” and pack his bags and go home to Chicago?
If I thought it would work I’d be lacing up my sneakers right now.
Occam’s Beard: if it would work, we’d get a lot more than a few million.
The very thought crossed my mind. In all seriousness, it would take more than a single night but weeks, even months of protests. We’d face counter protests and attacks by union goons wearing Purple shirts; beatings by police; firehoses; the New Black Panthers; Atzlan and every other grievance group in America. But if we hanged tough and refused to disperse in the Washington Mall for example, I doubt Obama or the thug Democrats could stop us. It would take a Tiananmen square style massacre to drive us away and I’d doubt the US military would take such steps.
It’s unlikely, though. Conservatives just aren’t that militant. However the Left are and it chills me to think how they’ve taken note of the Egyptian protests. Don’t have any doubt Egypt will become a template for the Islamists and the Left in this country. I suspect we’re going to see real civil disobedience within a few years that try and imitate the disturbances in the Mid East.
Yep, what Hong said. There’s not much I can add.
No question about it, violence–when, not if, it comes–will be initiated by the left, while they continue to screech about dangerous right wingers. They will be fully supported by the treasonous media, who will highlight their “grievances”.
“Will be”? Isn’t that sorta the 60s in a nutshell?
Hong: they might treat us like the Bonus Marchers.
Let’s see: Egypt’s population is about one-fourth of ours. All we need to do is figure out how many protesters were in Tahrir Square, multiply that by four, and get that number to the Mall.
Tea Party 2.0.
Foxfier: the ’60s indeed. The anger displayed by our neighbors the Cultural Lefties at the least resistance to the Received Wisdom should be evidence enough.
And neo: The Bonus Marchers are probably the perfect analogy.
God grant that it doesn’t come to this; but if it does, am I still strong enough?
neo,
They said on Fox tonight that there were never more than 200,000 people in the square in Cairo.
They say Beck had nearly 500,000 at his rally on the Mall in August. 800,000 is very doable, IMO>
Neo,
I think we can all agree that MacArthur was a unique and towering figure in American military history. I’m doubtful the Left can summon anyone in the military with that much nerve; and he was responding to what he felt was a Leftist inspired uprising. I’d imagine he’d be cheering the Tea Partiers of today. But even if the Left could find a general willing and compliant enough, I doubt it still in this age of YouTube. So I still remain cautiously faithful that the military would serve as a brake and not an accelerant of violence.
Well, at least most of us on the right are well-armed. 8-]
LOL, we’ve been asking this same question! Hey COUNT ME IN! I’ll bring friends.
You know that Obama is of the “do as I say, not as I do” school of thought… 🙁
I was chastized for a post similar to what is being said up above when I first came here.
All the above will come. We all , I think, believe it. They’ll take the guns first. And in this country, it will take civilian “brown shirts”. etc. to provide the muscle. I just can’t see our military firing on the civilian populace in the USA. I see the nation breaking up into chunks down the road, as many have said in many publications I have read. The blue areas will be filled with those with their hands out, the red areas will prosper.
. . . and we are left with the same dilemma! I did not hear a single authoritative Republican Party voice to offer an alternative narrative to the bho regime.
Observing the difference in the regime’s approach to the demonstrations in radical Iran and those in moderate Egypt, and being one who believes in taking people at their word, I am drawn back to bhos own missive in “Audacity of Hope,” . . .
“I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
Objective observation reveals that his, “them,” are always the more radical elements of Islam.
Now US Army is all-voluntary and most of the recruits come from red states. They are much more conservative in their worldview than society in general. I doubt very much that they will obey orders to shoot at their compatriots. Even Bonus March scenario is quite improbable now. And if protesters would come armed, this itself will command much self-restrain from police or National Guard. It is quite possible to outnumber and outgun all counter-protestsers.
I agree with Hong.
/sarc on …. But, if conservatives did protest most of the reliable work force would be at the Mall in DC and nothing would get done. I guess the liberals would then import more illegals and LaRaza would say that they then own the country.
sarc off/
Sorry…can’t help it.
“…that if a few million people came to the Mall in DC protesting the Obama administration and demanding his resignation…”
Our liberal friends in academia and the media would, of course, immediately begin manufacturing false reports that those people uttering racist epithets and inciting violence. Others would announce that they were paid tools of the Amerikkkan Capitalist Rulers. (Fuck you, Fred Pohl.)
Such crowds demanding Obama’s resignation may show up yet.
The other day pollster Frank Luntz picked up on a comment from one member of a focus group of Iowa Republicans, who said that he thought Obama was a Muslim, and Luntz asked how many of this group thought that Obama was a Muslim too, and was apparently very surprised when nearly half of the people in this focus group raised their hands (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355402/Republicans-Iowa-Obama-Muslim.html) . I think that with each new day and each new statement and action by this administration, this realization about just who and what Obama is is starting to dawn on more and more people here in the U.S.
I belive that the evidence is fast accumulating that Obama is either a crypto-Muslim or that he is way, way too sympathetic to Muslims and to their cause–an Islam which is totally opposite to and antithetical to the bedrock principles of freedom and democracy which animate and guide us here in the West and in the U.S.–an Islam whose successful Jihad would result in our domination by Muslims and Islam, in our enslavement, and in many of our deaths, and certainly in the destruction and dismantling of Western civilization and of the independent, free and democratic United States as we know it.
As one new piece of evidence, I offer the Obama Administration’s attempts, aided by its lackeys and running dogs in the MSM, to portray the Muslim Brotherhood (the Ikhwan)–root of modern day Jihad, graduate school for people like Bin Laden and Zawahiri, and parent of Hamas–as some sort of peaceful, unorganized coalition of democratic organizations devoted to social welfare; prime evidence being the embarrassing, clueless, and terminally politically correct attempt to clean up the Ikhwan’s image attempted by DNI Clapper at the House Intelligence Committee hearing the other day.
I note–but the MSM and hardly anyone else noted–the sermon given back in October of 2010 by the newly appointed “Spiritual Guide” of the Ikhwan, Muhammad Badi, which observers saw as the Ikhwan–which has tried to stay in the background, and which has always maintained the fiction that it was a “peaceful” organization–deciding that the time was ripe to openly declare war i.e. Jihad by all Muslims–against the United States (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=214245) .
Unlike Sergey, I’m not so sure Neo’s reference to the Bonus March is unrealistic. A massive rally camped out in DC for an extended period would be seen as a serious threat to the established order inside the Beltway. We’ve seen members of leftist groups attempt to infiltrate Tea Party demonstrations and act as agents provocateur. 1,000 well trained provocateurs in a crowd of 1 million could easily create an image of a violent, out of control demonstration. Does anyone doubt the MSM would provide its enthusiastic assistance to enhance that image?
As far as there being no MacArthur available, Wesley Clark fits my image of a general willing to order troops against US citizens. All it takes is a general who believes doing so would further his career objectives. So, given the right circumstances I think its entirely possible the US Army may well follow an order to fire on those crazy, bible thumping, gun clinging, racists trying to overthrow the government. Such a scenario is just another reverberation of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy the Clintons created more than a decade ago.
I’m all for peaceful demonstrations, the more the merrier. However, the ballot box is the instrument for creating our version of hope and change.
Sergey, the US Army was all-voluntary then. It was a small long service force well-equipped to deal with labor unrest (as it did regularly) and other protests like the Bonus Army, though not with a serious external military opponent.
And it was probably more conservative than anything we have today. In fact, the official government line at the time, also held by Gen. MacArthur, was that Bonus marchers were communists or communist-controlled and a threat to national security.
I don’t think it is at all unlikely that the Army would do this again, though I don’t think there would be any need. There are sufficient police in the District now to handle the job.
Still, if necessary, the Army would respond to a threat to the government. There’s no National Guard in the District (that I’m aware of) and the Army fills that role there. The modern military is very understanding of their subordinate place in the civil-military relationship. (Do you really want it any other way?)
If the legally constituted federal government told them to clear the streets and restore order, I recommend you get out of their way, whether you bring your musket or not.
Also, I’m pretty sure that the narrative would focus first on national security (‘we welcome a dialogue, but can’t tolerate the threat to peaceful governance…). Then the committed Tea Party activists still in the streets would be labeled ‘terrorists’ without official reference to right- or left-wings and hunted to destruction.
There is a D.C. National Guard, but I bet Obama & Co. could cobble together a pretty substantial civilian force from the multiple civilian police forces that patrol and protect the Capitol Hill area and D.C.–the D.C Metropolitan Police, the U.S. Park Service Police, Capitol Hill Police, the Diplomatic Service Police, General Services Police–FBI headquarters is a few blocks down the Mall, and there are probably a few other police forces I am not even aware of that have some sort of jurisdiction in D.C.
IMO, one of the strangest things Obama has done is direct NASA to reach out to Muslim scientists in order to publicize the numerous, imaginary contributions Islam has made to the advancement of modern science. It takes a 9th degree mental contortionist to invent that ‘mission’.
The anger displayed by our neighbors the Cultural Lefties at the least resistance to the Received Wisdom should be evidence enough.
Oddly timely, since I recently had someone from high school accuse me of being a horrible mean nasty bad person when I objected to a third person, who I’d been having a conversation with, claiming historical inaccuracies along the lines of “everyone thought the world was flat before Columbus.”
Their objections, when investigated, boiled down to… I disagreed with them, politically. Politely, and always with facts, and only when I was directly spoken to, but I disagreed with The Wisdom!.
Good heavens, how can people be so blessed blind?
Wonder how much Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck would charge to lead the protest?
If there was no risk, it wouldn’t be worth doing.
In re Mac and the bonus marchers, it’s hard to find officers with relatives who are serving members of congress these days. As someone has observed, the real military is a red state organization. The real threat is all those government employees with badges and guns. Even most of those are red staters too.
It would take a month or two, but at some point, he’d have to go. Then Biden could have his 15 minute Al Haig moment. Then Hillary would have us sprayed with VX while she was out of town.
There are only 3 legal means for the removal of a president: a.) the 22nd amendment, b.) the ballot box, and c.) impeachment by the House followed by conviction by the Senate. In the case of Obama option b is preferable to c. Impeachment should always require a credible accusation backed up by undeniable evidence. It should never be seen as a political option.
As someone has observed, the real military is a red state organization.
Wishing something is true is not the same thing as it being true.
“U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-14-military-donations_N.htm
John McCain lost. The Republican party doesn’t like losers nor is the Republican party a hive mind, like the Left. It doesn’t think under “one head”.
As for agent provocateurs, I would use Obama’s “Civilian Security Force”, the TSA and SEIU union thugs along with some National Guard backup (from another state, like say a loyalist Democrat one with a Democrat governor and a Democrat state reps) and put them where the protesters are. Then I’d get the agent provocateurs to FIRE into the armed TSA or National Guard wing, then have the TSA be prepared to counter-fire.
In all the chaos and confusion, if the ROEs for the National Guard is “fire if fired upon”, they will fire. And casualties will result, whether intentionally or not.
Now, to make it really certain, I’d have the agent provocateurs detonate a terrorist bomb or fire an RPG into a the TSA/National Guard line. Not only will I have “bodies” to use as a photo op to prop up the Obama propaganda line, I’d have an excuse and a target to blame. Tea Party terrorism, obviously. They are at fault for such an unprovoked attack. And for all the civilian casualties that resulted from indiscriminate fire from government armed orgs.
That’s how I’d set it up if I had Obama’s resources and I wanted to crush the opposition decisively.
You could strew dead bodies dressed in Polish uniforms around a radio station.
Hey, it worked once.
Ymarsekar–I read an article recently discussing what was discovered when new technology allowed researchers to hear for the first time what was on a tape made during the Kent State shootings, sounds that had previously been too faint or buried in background noise to discern (http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2010/10/analysis_of_kent_state_audio_t.html) .
What researchers heard was an apparently violent confrontation and four shots from a .38 that had been fired by one of the students–photographer and FBI informant Terry Norman who had a .38 that day in a shoulder holster–and who fired several shots when he felt threatened by other students. A cop testified at the time of the incident that he confiscated the gun and that it had been fired and that there were several spent rounds in the cylender.
These four shots immediately preceded–they occurred 70 seconds before–National Guardsmen opened fire. At the time of the incident the National Guardsmen maintained that they believed they were under fire and so returned fire.
IMO, one of the strangest things Obama has done is direct NASA to reach out to Muslim scientists in order to publicize the numerous, imaginary contributions Islam has made to the advancement of modern science.
Parker, I agree. This was very peculiar. If anyone else had done it, it would have raised questions as to whether it was meant sardonically.
Not among the trigger-pullers IT. You’d be hard pressed to find one that voted for him, and he’d be the weirdo, like you.
Wolla Dalbo said (February 12th 11:25 am)
” … I bet Obama & Co. could cobble together a pretty substantial civilian force … ”
==============
I seem to recall that Obama wanted to create a “Civilian National Security Force” (on a par with our military) to be available here in the US in case of some unspecified “need”.
I’ve heard no follow-up on it. Is the idea defunct, or have the MSM just decided not to cover it any more?
A Nonny Mouse–
Obama’s bizarre and ominous two sentence addition to the text of the prepared remarks of his July 2, 2008 speech on “Service,” to Air Force cadets a Colorado Springs was either not reported, not included in transcripts printed in almost all newspapers–which printed just his prepared remarks, or, in the rare case they were noted, were dismissed as of no importance (see http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=69784 and http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/obamas_civilian_national_secur.html ) . I suspect that if, in retrospect, Hitler were discovered to have said something like this before he came to power (perhaps Hitler did, I don’t know), historians looking back would regard it as having been of very great significance, given later events. Hopefully, this will not be the case here.
Obama did call for and got a very large increase in the budgets of existing “public service organizations” like Americorps, and the authority to create several more such organizations, and I have seen the occasional mention that the unions and possibly SEIU were involved in these efforts, but it seems that this is one of a myriad of actions that Obama & Co. are undertaking behind the scenes that the MSM has decided to avert its eyes from.
A_Noony_Mouse says,
“I see to recall Obama wanted to create a ‘Civilian National Security Force’….”
I would like recommend Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. He discusses in great detail the American Protective League and other extra-constitutional measures that were put in place by Woodrow Wilson. IMO Obama is waiting for a 2nd term to create his own paramilitary goon squad.
Not among the trigger-pullers IT.
Casca,
George W. Bush didn’t win the Republicans a lot of friends at the pointy end of the U.S. military.
But if you want to imagine a right-wing military force to support your imaginary right-wing revolt, don’t let me stop you.
I almost have to agree with InTheory here. Almost.
As he reminds us, there are actually two different military, though most inhabitants of civ-land don’t recognized the need for a distinction.
The most numerous sort are the ones who almost certainly contributed in greater amounts to Obama. These are the REMFs who work in the J5 office at the Pentagon and similar safe places far from the bad guys.
The other sort are the trigger-pullers. I don’t remember them contributing much to anything other than the beer fund. Their favorite sort of politician is the sort that keeps them in ammo. There aren’t many minority single mothers in this group.
InTheory, maybe you mentioned it somewhere in your assessment of the trigger-pullers, but I missed it. HOW much time do you have in the field with the grunts?
Ymarsakar:
Welcome back (from wherever you went). I’ve missed your comments here.
Re Hong’s first post:
The support logistics needed for a vigorous but peaceful, sustained anti-govt demo on the Mall would doom it to failure. The demonstrators won’t be locals, not in DC. Lock the buildings, block the streets, what will the demonstrators drink? Water from the pool? Never mind sanitation and food.
DC ain’t Cairo.
The demonstration would need to be in another city….purpose being to get sympathy demos going elsewhere. Kinda like Tea Parties, springing up de novo.
On the old “Obama beat McCain in military donations” BS….
Keep in mind, Obama’s donation paperwork was… incredibly bad, and that the report only looked at donations of over $200, and that all of them combined was fewer than a carrier’s crew?
News flash, officers tend to be liberal and political. They basically are career politicians, other than the rare really good ones. (who don’t tend to have $200 dollars to drop on politics)
It’s part of why many enlisted say “higher ranking” rather than “superior.”
Next: water wet.
“officers tend to be liberal and political”
Foxfier, not even close to my experience. Got some proof?
LAG-
How’s ten years and counting of personal experience, including the shock and horror of my LT when he found out that “such a nice person” like me was a Bush supporter?
What evidence do you have that officers aren’t liberal?
They may be to the right of CNN these days, but I know they were dead center of CNN as of 2003 (the last time I watched CNN– or any cable news– regularly. There’s only so much stretching a five minute story out to half an hour a person can take.)
Officers are politicians because they have to be, with all the social engineering BS.
Oh, I forgot to add to the above– don’t forget Obama’s donation checks were so effective he got more donations from “Good Will” and “Doodad Pro” than he did from the claimed military members in that study.
Thanks Rick.
Wolla Dalbo, from previous research into the matter, I can say definitely that the Kent State shootings were engineered and manufactured as an event by Leftist violent extremists to further the anti-war cause.
Hey, it works. It’s cheap too. Don’t even have to die for your beliefs. Get some other poor shmuck to do it for you. It’s very efficient. One reason why poorly resourced guerrilla/terrorist armies often use it.
I mean, this is almost SOP the stuff I have described. Anyone that knows what really goes on in “protests” or “demonstrations” would be able to describe potential insurgent or counter-insurgent tactics on the matter. They might not be able to “plan” it. Planning takes a specific type of skillset. Also needs time, manpower, resources, money.
A lot of the stuff the Left does is glaringly obvious. It’s not that professional or complex. But it still works and nobody noticed that it worked. That’s the amazing part.
Nobody noticed. They bought the BS. People are easy fool. That hasn’t changed since Eden.
Foxfier, not even close to my experience. Got some proof?
Foxfier is probably noticing the great number of Wesley Clarks that got in under the Clintons and Carter administrations. Those are significant.
Part of why Petraeus’ various promotions were important is because we needed him to set the promotion board standards. There were too many flag officers and general other…. uh people who weren’t worth the weight of their BDUs. Maybe they weren’t 100% incompetent, but they weren’t as fired up as the officers Petraeus would be able to pick out and promote.
Anecdotal:
“How’s ten years and counting of personal experience…”
Factual:
“These career-oriented officers and mid-grade and senior enlisted members are still far more conservative than liberal, but they are less likely today to identify with the GOP, the survey shows.”
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/04/military_poll_advance_041110w/
Surveys are meaningless. Even if they were true.
The military, being a hierarchy, it matters a lot more what higher ranked individuals do in terms of policy than it does some private or even NCO.
Much of the shift appears to have occurred only very recently, with the percentage of troops identifying themselves as Republican dropping nine percentage points from 2008 to 2009 and the percentage of those calling themselves independents increasing 10 points over the same period.
Generally, if somebody wants a career under Obama, they might be wise not to call themselves a Republican or be officially designated as such.
Just a precautionary measure.
In the Navy and Air Force, politics is a bit more significant than the Army or Marines. Of course, the Army is getting there too with the gay/women issue.
I’ve been concerned that recruitment and retention will suffer under Obama. Real patriots might bail out, leaving a manpower shortage. Then the Obamunists will proclaim that a draft is necessary. That will result in the lowering of standards for the military.
Ultimately, the military will be made up of ignorant street thugs and gangbangers. Then they will come after our guns.
That’s what I’ve been worrying about for some time now.
Generally, if somebody wants a career under Obama…
Or more likely, the Republican’s recent swerve to the far right has alienated many of the U.S. military’s officers and senior enlisted, Ymar.
“Ignorant” in the sense that they will know nothing about American history, or the Founders’ values and principles.
Of course they will be well trained and will have the full backing of the Federal government.
I forgot to mention that chronic high unemployment rates will also drive marginal people to enlist in the military, and that the manpower shortage and the lowering of standards will force the military to accept them. A draft might not even be necessary.
InTheory: I guess one has to be a subscriber to view the poll results, but in the absence of being able to see them, I would say that from the article it seems that they are talking about results in 2008-2009, in the early days of the Obama administration. It would be interesting to see what’s going on now.
It also seems that the trend is really about party identification rather than anything else. It seems to be that for some reason (and I can imagine many possible reasons) more of the military is switching from affiliating as Republican to affiliating as Independent.
Seeing as how I am an Independent and not a Republican, I think I can understand (never have been a Republican, by the way). But it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with a change in beliefs.
IT, *chuckles* that’s a nice house of cards there.
Rickl, Obama is basically raiding the US military of cash now that SS is cashed out.
So if people leave, it’s because they got booted out due to the fact that Obama told the Army or Marines to “cut out all those useless rifle carriers they have”.
The secondary effect is that they will cut salaries or benefits, perhaps both, to fund social entitlements. This means that a military salary will become less and less competitive with private sector jobs. For a soldier that also has a young and growing family, that’s a serious consideration for future career prospects.
I’m not too worried about the likes of Obama forming a SS brigade and taking us out by the use of superior firepower. Their methods are more immediate, more subtle, and more cowardly than that.
Ymarsakar,
I suggest you become acquainted with the American Protective League. That is the format Obama will use if he has any intentions of creating a ‘civilian national defensive force’. The APL often acted as a gang of vigilantes under the purview of the Wilson’s DOJ. They used physical coercion, economic retaliation, and sedition trials to intimidate and sometimes throw in jail many thousands of citizens considered enemies of Wilson’s policies.
I believe he already has one. All he needs to do is to arm them or give them more authority.
Take the TSA as one example. TSA is Transportation Security Authority. And it has been tested in the past that they will follow orders. Regardless of what the people affected by such think.
From the description, the APL sounds more like the Black Panthers and SEIU.
Wilson’s APL makes the Black Panthers, SEIU, and ACORN look like cute 5 year old girls having a pretend tea party while they talk about the latest in Barbie fashions. I guarantee you will find the APL a chilling, fascinating subject.
These career-oriented officers and mid-grade and senior enlisted members are still far more conservative than liberal, but they are less likely today to identify with the GOP, the survey shows.
That is the only information offered, and it’s bloody useless unless they define their terms, and even if they DID define their terms reasonably (which, from reading the Navy Times and the AF Times, would be about CNN line, maybe a bit more left– so not that reasonable), they have everyone above E5 in that selection.
Since the Military Times does pretty horrible original reporting, though, I wouldn’t expect the survey to be too very accurate.
Surveys are designed more to create public opinion than report on it.
Ymarsakar
“Surveys are designed more to create public opinion than report on it.”
Perhaps not all are designed with that end, but some surveyaare definitely designed to create opinion: push polls.
Wonder how much Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck would charge to lead the protest?
no you don’t…
you just wonder if you can bait REAL people with propaganda you fall for…
problem is that we are not as stupid as you, so we actually CANT fall for any point coming from the life of lies you live in and have no idea of, and or how to get out of.
sad sad little non person
never to be anything great or mean anything
since they erased you before you ever existed
you were broken before you could know what whole was
Wishing something is true is not the same thing as it being true.
“U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain”
your not too bright, eh?
what if 99% hated them both
and .7% donated to obama
and .3% to Mccain
ah… you see, mathematical literacy doesnt exist on the left, which is why bs games work with people like you.
by the way, they ONLY work on illiterates and ignorants like you!!! which is why, when you parrot them after being victimized, the other people dont fall into it as fast nor as blindly as you did.
they know more, so its easy to see
you know less, so you keep trying ineffctual things that have little meanign to anyone else but the ignorant.
and as you say…
wishing or believing that your not ignorant, and doubly so if they told you you werent, is not the same thing a being true.
if your going to parrot, please learn what it means so that you might learn from your own babbles.
Damn art,
Leave a bone for the others to chew on…