Mubarak really steps down this time
It seems that Mubarak really has stepped down this time.
Suleiman came on TV and made the announcement and the crowd went wild. Now the army is in charge of the transition.
I say “now the army is in charge,” but they have actually been in charge the whole time. IMHO they were allowing Mubarak to try to stay in power and allowed him to make that speech yesterday—but when they saw the results, which seemed potentially incendiary, they insisted he leave.
And so he did, putting them in power officially rather than just behind the scenes. This has happened before, most notably in 1952 in the infancy of the Egyptian republic when a group of officers removed King Farouk, an act that ended with the presidency of Nasser. In order to do that, the fledgling Eygptian constitution was abandoned and a new one written. But there was one huge difference: that was a coup, not a popular uprising.
For now, I think Mubarak’s resignation is the best result possible under the circumstances, as long as the army maintains order. I emphasize the words “for now,” because I continue to be very concerned about what will happen next, and especially the outcome of elections. Even if the people in Tahrir Square actually represent a true democracy movement, five and a half months is not exactly an ideal amount of time to build a democratic political system where none existed before. And will forces such as the Muslim Brotherhood be the beneficiaries?
We’ve heard about the Arab street for years. Who would have thought that its most potentially cataclysmic eruption would be against its own governments? The reverberations are spreading around the entire region, and I am certain that heads of state in places such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan are staying up nights figuring out what to do in their countries to avoid a similar fate.
I asked who would have thought it—but I suppose I could say “neocons,” or perhaps “George Bush, that’s who.” But that does not mean that something good will come from this. We simply do not know the end result, and anyone who says that he or she does is just blowing hot air.
[ADDENDUM: I just watched a clip of Suleiman delivering the announcement. He looked like a person officiating at his own funeral.]
he fled
the military just took control…
Do note that there is no such thing as a non military dictatorship. all such regimes, communist, or otherwise, are ADMINISTRATORS and admins control the military
administrators do not think police are enough once they start to administrate others lives and expect to be followed (For your own good of course) and are not followed. so the accountants pay the military to do a job for them…
so there is no such thing as a “military dictatorship”…
As of today, the peace treaty between the two nations of Egypt and Israel is no more.
like the papers on Salic land, they pertain no more
Exactly 32 years ago, February 11 1979, Shakh of Iran was ousted.
Sergey: that’s pretty amazing. Same date!
It might turn out that the coming and the old Islamic Republics will hate one another. Things could be worse than having two pious Mullah regimes hurling anathemas at one another. Too bad about the Suez Canal but maybe it’ll force the Bonehead-in-Chief to permit the US to drill for its own damn oil. Similar needs may make Brussels and Moscow fast friends; they’re heading that way anyway. Why–my euphoria on this historic day is getting the better of me–maybe the day will come when the civilized world treats the middle east as a dangerous and useless slum.
I think I’m missing something here. The Army appoints the government in Egypt, and has done since 1952. The frontman is gone, but what has changed in essence?
Charles Krauthammer called it dead right on this one. Surprise, surprise Obama is taking credit.
Oblio: you are quite correct that nothing has changed so far. But one thing that is very different is the manner in which it happened—a popular uprising.
The army now faces a dilemma due to this new dynamic: how much liberty to give the people? They will not be satisfied with what they had before. How free will the elections be? How to keep peace in the interim? The answers will determine the course of Egypt, and probably the Middle East.
and now we’ll have an Iran-style Islamic state bordering Israel directly, controlling the Suez canal, the gateway for trade between Europe, Africa, and Asia.
It’s also Thomas Edison’s 164th birthday.
Western Civ makes progress.
Islamists move back to the year 700 each day.
Sergey: that’s pretty amazing. Same date!]
i have more same date stuff in your other thread.. 🙂
Sergey knows them and so he knows that symbolism and games and such in what they do is a constant…
so doing things on the same date as if it has magical power is a constant among the left… even if the celebration of the day is done by tricking people to celebrate (like May Day)…
so he knows as i do, to go look…
you will find that they coordinate around such dates as such dates have more meaning to the people the inflame.
plath committed suicide today
yalta ended…
etc….
its in the other thread…
along with other revolutions..
like the russian february revolution which is march on our calandar, but februrary on the cyrillic one.
today is ALSO the day that Nicholas like teh shah, and mubarak, and others lost their place.
[and we are forgetting the history of the rif area, berbers, and stalins desire to grab spain to crush europe between a hammer and anvil. instead he got hitler… ]
When I was one year out of high school Castro overthrew Batista in Cuba. I can remember him (Castro) coming to New York (to speak to the U.N., I think) and the American elite falling over themselves to have their picture taken with the modern revolutionary. He, too was thought to have led a popular democratic uprising against a cruel and despicable dictator. It wasn’t a matter of months before the firing squads started.
This affair in Egypt for some reason brings strong memories of that. The logistics involved in “popular” uprisings like this do not arise unformed from the dust of the public square.
“Wall Street gains after Mubarak resignation (Reuters) – 1 hour ago
Reuters – U.S. stocks rose on Friday as investors welcomed news that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak resigned, easing concerns that have been weighing on the market for weeks.”
Uhh, the Dow is up 20 points.
Have your concerns eased yet?
The people will be happy if they get bread for their families and have some semblance of commerce and a normal life, the Imam’s will be happy if they can control the peoples daily lives and get some kind of Sharia-like authority in the emerging deal, the military will be happy to control the whole deal as long as they can figure out how to split the shakedown payoff’s from the West, and the West will be happy if they keep the Suez open and leave Israel alone.
And if’s and but’s were candy and nuts every day would be Christmas as my Irish Mother used to say . . . .
” … I just watched a clip of Suleiman delivering the announcement. He looked like a person officiating at his own funeral. ”
===================
Isn’t that one of the historical down-sides of despotism? When “the people” finally rise up against their hated rulers, it’s usually not handled in a pleasant manner.
even if the celebration of the day is done by tricking people to celebrate (like May Day)…
Or Christmas, which was set to coincide with the pagan holiday of Saturnalia, where (IIRC) they pretty had a naked, drunken orgy.
Makes me wonder how they ever supplanted Saturnalia, now that I think about it.
Dennis,
I recall Castro receiving a ticker-tape parade when he came to NYC. Do you recall this event, or am I suffering a false memory?
Parker,
Could be, but I’m afraid the 50 or so years between then and now wouldn’t allow me to swear to it. I’m pretty sure I do remember that, just like I’m-a-Dinner-Jacket, he stayed in one of the major hotels (rented one or two floors I think) and all the hoi poloi came to pledge obeisance.
Artfldgr says,
“As of today, the peace treaty between the two nations of Egypt and Israel is no more.”
I can understand the MB wanting to abrogate the treaty, they’ve all ready called for such action. But what does the military gain by such a move? An uptick in popular support?
Doesn’t matter what they gain, without the election and handover, its kind of a new country with the same name, not the same country with a different leader.
i guess it will all depend on whether they want to preserve things or not… and the process is far from over as to who will be holding the reigns and who will be kicking the traces…
i will point out that we would like to think that this is the people, and they did it when they couldnt take it any more…
but thats not how it works.
if that was so kim jong il would have been out long ago, castro too… etc.
no… Lenin found that not even the promise of gold plated urinals would get masses rising up without being organized.
Artfldgr,
“As of today, the peace treaty between the two nations of Egypt and Israel is no more.”
It would be nice if the Jewish State would make lemonade out of this lemon, in the form of total rejection of all land concessions henceforth. However, the Israeli Jewish Left, like the Left everywhere else, is simply insane, and refuses to budge even in the face of incessant suicide-murders, Kassam rockets and now this.
If I’ve said this once, I’ve said it a thousand times, on many forums: Marxism must be criminalized. By any nation that values its survival.
> Who would have thought that its most potentially cataclysmic eruption would be against its own governments?
Ummm… me?
I’m not the least surprised. All of this is part and parcel of what has happened in Iraq, and follows from that.
There have been strong M.E. rumbles for Democracy ever since the elections in Iraq years ago, and Egypt was one of the louder of them.
I concur with your concern that they may not work out well — a Palestine-style “democracy” would be little better than a Khomeini style theo-kleptocracy.
But, as with Iraq. there is hope that this is a Berlin Wall moment, rather than a Reichstag moment.
IgotBupkis,
There is no such hope. The man in the street is a Muslim believer. The people take Islam and all its tenets seriously.
It is anachronistic to hold a pre-Enlightenment world (the entire Muslim world) to Enlightenment standards. That fallacy underlies nearly all of the failures of the West in dealing with the Middle East to date.
Hope in Iraq comes about due to the presence of US troops and George Bush’s will to fight.
Ain’t none of that in Egypt right now. Nor in the forseeable future.
Zimbabwe. Remember Zimbabwe. Cuba. Vietnam. Mao’s Revolution.
These are examples of popular revolts turned into the Left’s cause. Where are the examples where it succeeded to represent individual property rights and right to life?