Remember Bernie Madoff?
He’s pretty sure you do.
This article from NY Magazine makes it clear that Madoff’s arrogance remains undiminished, even (or perhaps especially) in prison. It contains some fascinating nuggets, such as a purported conversation between Madoff and convicted spy for Israel Jonathan Pollard, who resides in the same facility (“Pollard thought that taking advantage of old ladies was ‘kind of fucked up.’ ‘Well, that’s what I did,’ Madoff said matter-of-factly”)
Here’s my favorite, though, in which Madoff expresses a sentiment about the SEC that I happen to share:
Madoff saved his scorn for the SEC. He did impressions of its agents, leaning back with his hands behind his head just as one self-serious agent did””“a guy who comes on like he’s Columbo,” but who was “an idiot,” Madoff said, as recorded in the extraordinary exhibit 104, a twelve-page account of the interview that is part of Kotz’s report. Madoff is no ironist. His disdain for the SEC is professional, even if the agency’s incompetence saved his skin for years””all Columbo had to do was make one phone call. “[It’s] accounting 101,” Madoff told Kotz, still amazed.
Madoff seems to have adjusted to prison quite nicely, which must infuriate a lot of people. He doesn’t seem racked by guilt, which is hardly surprising, and he’s admired by many of his fellow inmates because of the scope of his con. What’s more, he’s giving investment advice.
So maybe it’s not so different for him in prison compared to out as one might think.
He’s giving investment advice?
Ah, there always be clients of madoffs…
Someone check my numbers…
The average sentence for murder in this country is about 22 years.
The average sentence for rape in this country is about 14 years.
Madoff gets 150 years??
He didn’t do it by himself. There were many who directly assisted him’ individuals AND institutions who enabled him, including licensed professionals that had oversight of his activities – CPAs, bankers, lawyers, financial consultants and those in the SEC who failed at their legal oversight. What happened to those people?
Sure, many got burned, but many of those who lost money were simply “smart” people who thought that they had “insider” advantages.
Personally I don’t see much difference in what Madoff did and what BO is doing to taxpayers right now.
Pablo, if you commit murder 50 times in the US, you’re sentence is likely to be a lot longer than 22 years. Madoff’s sentence is based on multiple occurrences of the crime.
The comparison that Madoff makes of an SEC agent to Colombo is intriguing. Colombo’s entire schtick revolved around pretending to be a little slow on the uptake. Could the SEC agent have simply not been pretending?
Pollard’s deprecating Madoff’s morality?
Whoa. Pollard sold us all out by committing treason – straight up, and should have been hanged for doing so. Madoff …er…made off (sorry) with some money. Money can be repaid.
Whoa. Occam? Really. That’s what you think about Pollard. I read the book on Pollard and looked at the other angles, such as the allegations that his information resulted in the outing and possible death of American agents. Not true. Quite possibly, his info saved Israel. Were we at war with Israel? Why weren’t we sharing info with Israel and supporting them. If that’s treason, then count me in. If some day my country becomes the antithesis of all that I believe and hold dear, treason becomes not only honorable, but dutiful.
Just finished some reading. The case against Pollard is hearsay. Smear. Yes, he was not a saint. Neither was Samson. But that is irrelevant. He was not a traitor. He did not commit treason. And there is a strong consensus of the infiltration of our state department and intelligence agencies by Muslim agents. That’s the real treason. It should tell us something that the government accepted a plea bargain. You don’t do that if you can convict.
Yep.
A: In the last analysis, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Israel, or indeed any country except the United States. Israel’s security is Israel’s problem. Would Israel laugh off someone betraying them to us? Don’t think so. Let Israel worry about Israel, and let Americans worry about America.
B: Nobody gave Pollard the right to decide which American secrets would be betrayed to whom. He committed a capital offense — espionage — and should pay accordingly.
C: I’m embarrassed to have to point this out, but intelligence services recruit under false flags all the time, probably the majority of the time. For this reason, the “I thought I was helping someone else” defense needs cannot be accepted. For my part, I don’t care if someone is spying for the Vatican. If I had my way, I’d hang every mother’s son who intentionally betrayed American secrets, for they are putting Americans lives at risk. Pollard absolutely deserved to hang. If his loyalty to Israel was greater than that to America, then he’d die an Israeli patriot — but an American traitor. Which he is. If Jews can’t be trusted to be Americans first, then you’ve just made a compelling argument for not trusting Jews with American secrets. Is that what you mean to do? Israel’s interests are not co-extensive with America’s.
Consider this hypothetical: suppose a future Pollard provided information that saved Israeli lives, but cost Americans theirs? Hero, or traitor? I say traitor. What say you?
What I hold dear is the United States of America. Period. Those who betray the United States of America should prepare for the long drop, if I have a say in the matter.
Curtis, he was guilty as sin. Even the Israelis admitted he was a spy.
Then that’s good, isn’t it? Both Jews and Muslims are betraying us left and right. Equal opportunity treason.
Treason is treason. Hang them all, I say. Traitors need to end their days at the end of a rope. No exceptions. I don’t care if we’re talking about a Jew who helps Israel, a Muslim who helps some Muslim country, a Communist who helps a socialist country (e.g., Julius Rosenberg), or just someone who wants a big paycheck. Anyone who puts American lives in jeopardy is a traitor, and should hang for his crime. Period.
Here’s my hierarchy:
1. Fellow Americans.
2. Everybody else.
C’mon, Curtis. There are lots of reasons for accepting a plea bargain. The government accepted a plea-bargain from fucking Aldrich Ames, for God’s sake.
Turn it around: why would someone accept a plea-bargain if he didn’t think he was likely to be convicted?
Any value when raised above all others becomes corrupt. So for freedom. Loyalty. Even truth.
Who gives Pollard the right to betray America’s secrets? His conscience. America has no absolute claim to being right all the time. I’ll put my allegiance to Torah and my conscience before I will the U.S.A. Much as I love her, she is not God.
Espionage is not a capital offense according to the Constitution unless it is against an enemy. As to the hypothetical question, may I ask a question? What decision do you think I’d make if it came down to being between Obama and Netanyahu?
I’ll take it you’ve got a good point on the plea bargain. I really don’t know enough. But betrayals don’t fall in the same category. Both in intent and effect, Pollard’s betrayal is so eclipsed by Ames, that surely no-one of a sane mind can equte them.
I should also clarify. When I say the case against Pollard is hearsay, I’m not talking about his conviction. I’m refering to what you can read on Wikipedia or other sites (there’s on on The Republic) where they claim and offer only hearsay evidence that Pollard’s spying caused American deaths and harm and that he also spied for other countries.
Fair enough. Kind of like Nathan Hale, then?
I put my allegiance in the Koran and my conscience before I will the U.S.A. Allahu Akhbar! I’m sure you enthusiastically support my position.
Seriously, if that’s the case, move to Israel, because you’re no American. You might live here, but you’re not one of us. And if you ever wonder where American anti-Semitism comes from, wonder no longer. It’s the sneaking suspicion that some American Jews would — like Pollard, and his apologists – sell out the rest of us, and put our families at risk – to protect their co-religionists. That’s OK — I understand that — but accept that that’s why Gentiles sometimes wonder about the loyalty of American Jews, just as American Gentiles and Jews wonder about the loyalty of Muslims in the State Department and intelligence services. The fundamental issue is whether we segment loyalty by nationality or religion. Americans do so by nationality. Those who do it by religion cannot and should not be trusted with protecting American interests, regardless of what that religion is.
It comes down this: American > Jew, or Jew > American. It’s as simple as that.
I say again: move to Israel. Much as I detest the Indonesian Imbecile, I come down on the Obama side of this, as a matter of principle. He is at least nominally the President of the United States, and I’m an American. I may think he’s wrong, but then in fact I may be wrong (yes, improbable as hell, but possible!). Anyone who places his own (unelected) judgment before that of the (admittedly largely retarded) electorate and acts against American interests as defined by the President and other elected officials, had best be prepared to pay the price, consonant with Thoreau in “Civil Disobedience.”
Betrayal is betrayal. Pregnancy is pregnancy. There are no degrees of either.
Irrelevant. He betrayed American secrets, and should pay with his life therefor. The fact, as it may be, that he didn’t cause American deaths is no fault of his. He did his best to cause them. Whether American deaths actually resulted from his actions was out of his hands.
Espionage is not mentioned in the Constitution.
How about religion?
Why would it be? He’s dealing with the same level of morality he did on the outside.
Madoff will die in prison, but it’s doubtful that it will be from natural causes.
I have nothing but respect and admiration for Israel as America’s ally and friend, but I have to say that leaking military secrets, even to Israel, cannot be tolerated.
On Pollard and anti-semitism; I agree that mentality occurred in the past. I remember getting peeved when friends would say they would fight for Israel and not the US. I don’t think that is a valid complaint to any great extent these days. If you assume that the anti-semitism festered predominantly on the right I would argue the tide has changed for that group, a group I stand with. The anti-Israeli sentiment, which can feed anti-semitism seems strongest in the left. Liberals, Jews included, get away with calling a Jewish American a “neocon” in the sort of way the left uses “Tea bagger”. We all know that neocon really means sneaky Jew trying to subvert US policy to further the aims of their real country, no? To this donk that is truly perplexing. Oh, and Pollard should rot.