Nelson caves on health care bill
No surprise. I hadn’t even written about the issue previously, because I never thought he wouldn’t be bought in just this manner.
My guess is that, once the Senate passes this abomination (Merry Christmas, citizens of the US!), the House will follow with something similar, rather than endure a big battle to try to make the bill more to the Left’s liking. After all, this gets not just the camel’s nose in the door, but the camel’s whole head.
Now the only real question on this issue is what will happen in 2010 and beyond. Will the body follow? Or will the camel be pushed back out again?
Bribery is so easy when you’re using other people’s money. Do these mental giants not understand that most people get it. When you pay Nebraska’s Medicaid bill with federal funds, that means using the tax monies of 49 other states to pay it. It is flim flammery of the most obvious kind.
As to the Medicare cuts to pay for much of the increased costs. Puhleeze! Medicare is almost broke now and they’re going to squeeze another $500 billion out of it. Yeah, when pigs fly. This is smoke and mirrors! It’s worse, it’s pernicious prevarication. Bah, humbug!!
Special rules for Nebraska? After special deals for Louisiana?
How long until everyone else figures ought that they should have to be bought off as well?
And do Nelson and Landrieu think that their deals will survive future political arm wrestling and probably court challenges? When the deals go away, someone will tell them, “That was then; this is now.” They really are rubes.
While we are at it, we should nominate the CBO for a Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, if they think that Obamacare is going to reduce the deficit. Or are they high?
s/b “figures out”
It is very doubtful this will be reversed.
I rather doubt that we have an honest election next year. People banking on anything approaching 1994 are going to be severely disappointed. Why are they so brazen? Why do they put forward a bill no one wants? Why do they not fear the electorate?
It is because they believe that they can steal the election. Odds are that they can, if you ask me.
Welcome to the USSA, and not a shot fired either.
How can we be so easily undone is what I want to know.
People are weak. This seems to be where “democracies” head. We have been keeping this at bay for decades.
They seem to have finally won.
I really have no faith in the nation anymore. What was in our national fiber that made us exceptional and great has all but bled out of us.
I doubt we ever recover from the Obama years. They are worse than the New Deal years. He has done more damage to us in less than a year than FDR did in al his years. There was still something to bring back back then. still factories, still a national character.
We were not slaves. Our “elites: did not hate the nation, did not hate the very foundations of our civilization, our posterity and our morality.
How strange that we would be so easily destroyed after all our generations of struggle.
To reverse it will require 2/3s votes in the Senate and House to override an Obama veto. Thus, the only real hope is Obama’s defeat in 2012 and strong GOP majorities in both Houses. Still have fingers crossed that it won’t go through. DC has 10 inches of snow, with a more inches expected.
If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
I am submitting my application for stimulus relief.
I will not be greedy.
I will ask for only $10 Billion, as I don’t want to be a pig.
The money will be used to buy stuff at my discretion.
I will direct that it be delivered to me in unmarked $100 bills.
I will certify that I intend to hire a landscaper, a plumber, an electrician, an exterminator, painters, and whatever service providers are necessary to keep my home looking like the Taj Mahal. In this way I can do my part to lower the rate of unemployment.
Don’t call me after I get my stimulus award to get in on the action. I will create my own infomercial describing how it’s done. Of course I will charge for the advice. But wait, if you call now you will get additional advice appropriate to the age of Obama, like “buy low, sell lower”.
I think that the Obami have gotten all that they can by bashing Bush. I suggest that in 2010 they go back to bashing Hoover. After all, he worked as the Democrat’s whipping boy for 70 years.
Quite a bargain!
If the republicans were smart, they would run on promising to repeal this obamination of a bill. That is if they were smart. Who am I trying to kid.
Hattip says,
Nelson didn’t cave. He sold out. Perhaps he even got the traditional thirty pieces of silver for betraying the American people. He also left federally funded abortion on the table. The final bill only needs 50 votes plus Biden. Nelson, Landriue, Testor and other “moderates” can safely vote against it to prepare for reelection.
oh this bill will pass. So will some form of cap and trade, card check and amnesty. Our nuclear forces will be gutted so will are armed forces in general.
Bank on it.
They figure they can steal the next election. It is the only explanation for this.
It is really the beginning of the end.
What fools we are. At the height of our powers we throw away the greatest prosperity and freedom the world has ever seen. We just threw it away. traded it for poverty, mediocrity and slavery.
We did not even lose a war to lose our nation.
We stood up to the Soviet Union, the Axis powers, the Central powers of WW1,and we survived a great Civil War. All at a great cost, all at great hardship.
For what? To let a pack of spoiled, communist baby boomer brats destroy it all from the inside? People who can not do a thing but destroy and wreck havoc? Narcissistic idiots?
Some of the most incompetent and untalented people in our history destroy us. All with just illusions and lies.
What a small and silly people we have become. I am in my 50’s. I have seen this happen over my lifetime. We are a differnt people that we were even 40 years ago. A Differnt nation. So different. It so saddens me. How low we have fallen. At least Great Britian had to go through a couple of world wars to collapse.
We have willfully destroyed ourselves over nothing, and have done in in less than one generation.
The saddest thing is that is you talked to the average person you would find that they do not even understand what is going on. Are not even really aware of it.
I never thought I would see America fall so in my lifetime, and never, ever, thought we would fall so fast and for such trivial reasons.
History will marvel at this.
Neo! It sounds like you’re losing your sense of humor. With our
conquerorspublic servants taking control of every aspect of our lives (as in, buy our health insurance or we put you in jail) that’s about all we have left. So don’t lose it!hattip Says:
“History will marvel at this.”
Doubtful. It’s the path many societies follow on their decline. Re: It’s an old and common story.
I have to tell you that at this moment I am embarrassed to say I live in the state of Nebraska. Nelson sounded like he was a “No” vote until the 11th hour. There was a special call in program on our local talk radio station this afternoon and Nebraskans are not happy campers right now. This may very well be Ben’s last term – we are all pondering whether or not Dear Leader has some plum assignment lined up for him if he decides not to run for re-election. If the election were held tomorrow no doubt he’d be out – and he’s held a healthy majority of voters from both parties for many years. Nebraskans are independent people, we did not ask, nor do we want all the money he “bartered” for us.
I’ve heard a lot of commentators say that the Dems are in the position of simply needing to pass something, anything, and then declaring victory. I don’t think that’s the case–they are going for the (shell) game. If they thought all they need to do is pass anything at all to declare victory, they wouldn’t be fighting so hard over content. They’d strip the thing of contentious elements, pass it, congratulate themselves and go home. There’s a lot more to this than just the win. They are after winning something specific. No one knows what it is, but it’s in there somewhere. And it’s not good. If it were good, they’d be showing it off. That’s what I think, anyway.
I still do not understand why the Republicans allow the health-care cost-containment case to stand unchallenged. There are perfectly good arguments to be made that high cost is not the problem, at least not directly. A large part of the high cost is a result of existing government interference in the health-care market and third-party payment at ordinary care levels. But these arguments are well-know. A good case can be made that costs should be going up. The quality of health care and its outcomes are increasing. Medicine advances–or at least it has up until now. As a result of new treatments, diseases that used to be acute and terminal have become long-term and chronic. That’s not worthless, and no one should be surprised that it’s costly. Does the cost make it undesirable? I submit that it does not. Improvements worth having are also worth paying for.
I know of no historical case where a decadent society has reversed its downward trend and recovered, although there may be some–can anyone point to any such case?
Back in 1994, I watched C-SPAN a lot. Just after the Republican victories of that year, I saw a semi-prominent think-tank leftist on the morning call-in show–don’t recall his name. He seemed a bit smug as he intoned that the Republicans would now control the country through the Congress. A caller pointed out that the left was exercising increasing control of the media, the Academy, K-12 public education, and was making gains in the Judiciary, and suggested that these facts would direct the future course of the country. The think-tank guy responded only with a self-satisfied chuckle.
These guys have been at this for a long time. It may not qualify as a coup in the dictionary definition of the term. But that’s what it nevertheless is.
Sorry. Messed up with the html italic tag, there!
Get off your asses people and fight for your county. I don’t want to hear anymore whining and hand ringing. Eveyone man and women up and get to work.
Lucius,
You are correct to urge us to fight. However, I suggest to you that those of us who trouble to post here are fighting. I speak only for myself, of course, but I have the distinct impression that posting here is not the extent of our activity. I, myself, contact Congressional representatives all the time–in fact, I think some of my reps’ call-fielders are getting sick of hearing from me. I’ve also been contacting Congressional leadership. I notice–and it’s not surprising–that some of their people are quick to cut you off if you’re not from the actual state (in the case of the Senate) or district (in the case of the House). I’ve had them hang up on me. But I point out that their leader has his position by virtue of my Representative or Senator having voted for them, and so there is a line of constituency from me to them. If you can get that far with them, they’ll usually listen. We talk to family, friends, and colleagues. Meanwhile, we ready ourselves for a fight that may be yet-to-come. We work at local levels, attending meetings and showing up at Tea Parties. I, for one–and I know I’m not alone–do not confine myself to whining and hand-wringing. We are, to a man, good citizens who understand that there are many fronts in this battle. Blog-posting is one, and it is by no means the least of them. We learn a lot from the exchanges.
Good to see you here among us!
Buy stock in rope companies.
A one time dividend?
No one should be surprised to see Senator Nelson fold like a cheap suit. Every man has his price, and these wizards are in a position to buy quite a bit. I’m rather more interested to see what happens with Jim Webb. I think he’s a true conservative. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it–has anyone else read his book Born Fighting? Somehow Bush got afoul of him, but he’s no liberal. We shall see, of course. But that one could turn out to be a nice surprise.
I tend to agree with Bill Kristol, who says that if this monstrosity passes, everyone–including and maybe especially the Democrats–will be stunned at the size and intensity of the negative public reaction. Of course, it’s easy to think that now, before the fact–and it’s certainly possible that the American public will simply sigh and drop back into their day-to-day ennui. But somehow–well, I think not.
Meanwhile, Obama looks weaker and weaker internationally–he’s almost becoming a self-parody. Shoot, in Copenhagen he was reduced to crashing a high-level meeting to which he was not invited. Unfortunately, his weakness implies the weakness of our nation, which he putatively leads. In this event, our best tactic is the element of surprise: We are not nearly so weak as many now take us to be.
O.B.,
Rope companies? Because of the hangings to come, perhaps? 🙂
Forgive me for mouthing off so much, which I love to do–some people have called me Betsy Blabbermouth, all the way back to when I was a kid in our neighborhood.
It occurs to me that some on our side make a tactical mistake by emphasizing the abortion issue. It’s not that it’s a trivial issue, or unworth the fight–it’s not. But if we make our stand on a single issue such as abortion, we are too easily co-opted, bought, and undone. I think this is the reason Nelson was never a horse worth betting on. This thing must be defeated not because of abortion (although that is certainly part of it), but because of its entirety. We must not allow ourselves to be isolated on any one portion of the thing and then picked off one-by-one. It’s ALL bad, every last living, breathing bit of it.
Well, I’d comment, but then I’d have to care.
That has stopped. Caring, I mean.
Watch the opening twenty minutes of “Saving Private Ryan”.
What most people don’t notice is that the opening carnage really never moderates until the soldiers get off the beach.
We’re still on the beach, and we are getting our asses handed to us.
The Republic is dead if this bill passes. The only way sixty Democrats are going to vote for this is if they have been convinced that the 2010 elections are already taken care of.
We’ll see what it looks like beyond the seawall, bye and bye. What the cost will be is anybody’s guess right now.
The Republic is dead. Not only is it dead, but we skipped that whole “charismatic, strong ruler” part of the formula and went straight to our Caligula.
Never thought I’d be writing that.
Back when the House passed their version of the bill, I was quite surpised. I had thought the Dems were too disorganized and too divided by factions to be able to pass a bill. I was less surprised when the Senate voted to allow debate… after all, it was a vote just to debate, thus an easy vote for even uncommitted Dems to show they were “on board.”
Now the cave in of Nelson..I’m not so surprised as I am disappointed. (Is this man up for re-election in 2010? If so, and if he ultimately does really vote for this bill, the people of Nebraska, a red state, need to dump this guy and teach him a lesson for betraying his values and those of his constituency.)
So, I guess I’m becoming less surprised as this thing goes on, and more aware that they dynamic of political process is just as likely to push even the moderate Dems to take an attitude that they have nothing to lose by voting for the health care monstrosity… they have to figure that if they are going to lose their seats anyway, they might as well go down voting “heroically” for the universal health care that liberals and the lefts have wanted for years.
I saw an interview on Fox with a political pundit… I forgot the name… he noted that the top Dems in Congress (Pelosi, Reid, Conyers, Waxman, etc.) who are ideologically leftist (moreso that porevious Dems) and who have been there since the 1970s, have had “universal government-run health care” on their agenda since they first got into Congress. Now that the alignment of power in Washington is at least temporarily in their favor, they are willing to risk everything, even any number of “blue-dogs” to get this thing enacted.
And add to that what Neo has pointed out: that the bill would be the camel’s nose in the tent, and that once in, they can work on squeezing the rest in in due time. (I like the Moroccan saying found on Neo’s link: “Little by little, the camel goes into the couscous.”
So, there is a lot to feel negative about at this point.
I still feel that the more that this bill can be delayed, the more the dynamic can change… there are a lot of the Dem’s leftists who could be moved to oppose it as not socialistic enough. Maybe some of the non-ideologues in the party, like maybe Nelson, and maybe even the “blue dogs”could be moved to finally have a backbone, in particular as the 2010 elections get nearer and nearer.
But mostly, what gives me hope is that the electoral process itself, a process i definitely still believe in. I look with great eagerness to the 2010 elections. I cant express how much I want to get my hands on that ballot and vote “REP”… and then head home election night and see what I honestly believe will be a wave of Red . . as in Red State… accross the election day maps. I think the longer the health care bill lingers, the better, in the sense that it will sour just that many more people on the Dems.
I agree with betsybounds:
Pardon my rambling.
JL: Nelson is up for re-election in 2012. He figures perhaps the people of Nebraska will forget by then.
But what he probably figures even more is that they won’t know what he did in the first place, because it is highly possible that—now that his failure to support a filibuster has allowed this bill to go forward, he can still vote against it when it comes up for passage, knowing that they don’t need his vote to get to that magic 51. After that, Nelson can tell his constituents that he voted against the bill, and many of them may not be aware of what he actually did before that, and what significance it had. Since Reid has plenty of extra Democrat votes for the bill, he can allow those, like Nelson, who are in more conservative districts, to vote against it as long as they have allowed it to go forward at the present stage. Later, this will give them the ability to deny that they supported it, and many people who haven’t followed it closely won’t know the truth.
I’m with hattip on this– I feel the same way he does. It’s all over for the U.S. but the shouting. My only question now is when will the shooting start.
Neo,
The Republicans should (but won’t? can’t?) make sure that people understand the difference between a cloture vote and a bill vote. Their failure to do so is one of the signs that they have no clue what kind of fight they are in. They are so lame.
The Republicans should have been screaming “Socialism!” from the rooftops, but they haven’t. As I’m fond of saying, Republicans fight using the Marquess of Queensbury rules, while the Democrats are street fighters who use brass knuckles and sucker punches. The Republicans need to get over themselves.
I am trying to find someone in TN legislature to sponsor a Tenth Amendment bill to opt out of the healthcare bill. TN has opted out of some of the federal gun laws – and a few states have bills to opt of the healthcare bill. We had Hillarycare forced down our throats in the 90’s. It almost bankrupted out state and I really don’t want to go thru that again.
Our blue dogs are just retiring instead of running for re-election next year. I imagine some great lobby positions are being set up for them as we speak.
The camel can’t be pushed back – we only have to look to the state I live in (Tennessee) to see it. Bankruptcy – oh well, sue the state and win to enforce those things we can’t pay for.
We are in a downward spiral that will not be fixed. They kicked the people who could mostly pay for the system off because while they cost less money they couldn’t win a lawsuit (after all they could kinda maybe afford something else if they decided to forgo heat, food, or shelter). Those that are a near pure burden get whatever they want. We keep trying to back off that and still keep a budget but you can’t and once the law is passed – Oh Well, too many “depend” on it.
The stimulus bill has costs more than it ever possibly could have saved and so will this. If this passes we will only have one way to go – and that is a fight between those that work and that that do not. Legally this is really the last battle, the next one will most likely not occur in a legal sense. I do not think it will (nor should it really) be a pro-active fight but this is us on the path to collapse – once that happens then we are at a state of ner anarchy.
We *could* have health care and such done in way that avoids it, but for whatever reason (insert your own) we can not.
It will be … interesting … as basic govt services start shutting down and we reach a strange state of service/no service. We are on the verge of it now (see bankruptcy and the attempt to use basic services like Police as a cost cutting measure instead of entitlement programs). I do not know or can even guess where this is going.
At some point the fact that the resources are being taken from those that do and given to those that do not will fail – it must. Unlike place like the old USSR our govt services are basically honest so I do not see a revolt against them, but a revolt against the dregs will be strange. I truly can’t really envision how that will take shape – I would like to think it will be that 60-70% just refuse to pay federal taxes on one April 15’th and keep their money 🙂
The next step is a tax revolt.
Those of us who are pulling the cart need to tell those who are riding in the cart to get the hell off.
You keep asking “Why is nobody protesting, calling their reps, writing their newspapers?”
The MSM – the newspapers, television, all of ’em, are staying mum. People outside of the Fox News audience or conservative radio have NO IDEA what’s going on. What the majority of citizens are hearing is that the Dems are the party of compassion, fighting valiantly to cover the millions of unfortunates who can’t afford health insurance, and the stinkin’ stingy Republicans would rather just let them all die in the gutter. Repub’s are the “Party of NO” who can’t be bothered to come up with any ideas of their own. Repub’s are racists by their very nature, and are sooo fixated on Obama’s skin color that they can’t even hear his wonderful ideas for healing the planet and uniting humanity.
The MSM doesn’t give any hints about how broke the country is, and that Obama & Co are throwing hundreds of billions of dollars of pork into each of the huge bills they’re passing (seems to me there’s a new bill each week with earmarks galore). The MSM doesn’t mention that Republicans have offered several amendments as well as standalone bills on Healthcare insurance reform and the Democratic majority has shot every one down. The MSM doesn’t say what will happen if the credit rating of the USA is downgraded. They don’t say we’ve been printing money like the press wi
Gack- hit “Submit” without meaning to!
Anyway, The MSM doesn’t mention we’ve been printing money like it’s going out of style next week.
Creeping Liberalism has ruined our schools and infected the students who have graduated from those schools.
The sickness has permeated our whole culture and I don’t know if we can undo the harm it’s caused the country.
It’s going to be an awful next-three-years.
Well, I emailed my senators, dirt bags that they are, and asked if they also got at least the same deal for the state as Nelson got for Nebraskans.
The problem with entitlements is analogous to the danger of feeding bears. Feeding bears is not always dangerous, but when you run out of food they get upset. That can be dangerous.
In order to keep their health care and other legislation intact all the Democrats have to do is retain at least 41 senators in order to prevent closure on any amendment. That is why the very liberal left of the party is not that concerned about the loss of the blue dogs and a few senate seats.
The Democrats may not be as smart as they give themselves credit but they are sly and manipulative in their goal of increasing the power of government to control our lives. And, they do not act in good faith. The question is whether the Republicans will not only wake up to this reality but adopt a strategy that will enable the them to undo the damage and stop the spending.
Neo-Neocon…Good Point about the swiney Nelson. IF he tries that grift of voting agaist the Bill itself and dodging for ‘cover’, Repubs have gotta dedicate the next 2-years to keeping Nebraska voters informed repeatedly of his cowardice and infamy.
Other than that, I have no opinion. 🙂
Those who have been reading my comments here know that I think the totally unscrupulous Obama & Co. and the far Left dominated Democratic Party have been taking very unusual steps involving each state’s Secretary of State, the Census, ACORN and the SEIU, and the Justice Department that indicate that they are setting up the conditions and mechanisms that will give them a good possibility of being able to fix the elections in 2010 and 2012 and stay in power. That I believe that if Obama & Co. can’t fix these elections, they will manufacture and declare some sort of extraordinary “National Emergency” that will allow them to postpone the 2010 or 2012 elections. Otherwise, all of the Democrats (and a few traitorous Republicans) in Congress would not have the guts to vote for hugely unpopular and destructive bills that they know will result in them being kicked out of office and off the Congressional gravy train.
A more benign alternative view I see expressed here sometimes; that most of these Democratic politicians–whose number one priority–from abundant evidence–is “number One,” staying on the Congressional gravy train and political survival–are so insulated from the views of the majority of the electorate, are so brainwashed ideologically, talk only among themselves and like minded people, believe their own propaganda about how vitally necessary and beneficial their Health Care Reform and Cap and Trade bills are and, thus, have no idea how opposed a majority of the electorate is to them, is just not plausible.
I believe that the majority of Democrats in Congress know quite well exactly what they are doing, and how ultimately disastrous these pieces of major legislation will be for the United States and are voting them through to please their far Left “base” and their major contributors, but have convinced themselves that they will somehow–with the absolutely critical help of the MSM–be able to wiggle out of responsibility for their voting these disasters into law, be able to confuse the issue, and, if all else fails, be able. somehow, to “blame Bush.”
Part of the reason members of Congress think they can thumb their noses at the majority of the electorate is also the cushy retirement set up they have created, plus all of the think tanks, lobbyists, partisan organizations and universities that they know will be only too glad to hire them if they are defeated in the upcoming elections; basically, many of them are set for life once they have served a term or two in Congress and made the necessary contacts.
This is what you get when our representatives–who originally were part-time citizen legislators, many of them farmers–become full-time, and corrupt, professional “politicians,”–out for themselves alone.
Michelle Malkin’s blog (http://michellemalkin.com/) has the Democrat’s timetable for today’s debate on the Senate version of the Health Care Reform bill–timed, of course, so that the majority of citizens–who are going to be preoccupied with digging out of a blizzard, or Christmas shopping, will be less likely to watch or even know about this highly unusual Sunday session, that will come to a conclusion with a vote scheduled, literally, “in the dead of night” i.e. 1 A.M tomorrow (Monday) morning.
The 1 A.M. vote is apparently the “cloture” vote i.e. whether to allow the bill to be debated, if their is no cloture, the final vote to pass the Senate bill is set for Thursday.
neo-neocon Says:
Regrettably, the combined facts that Nelson’s next election is a full 3 1/2 years away, along with the possible tactic of allowing him to vote “no” on the final package, may indeed allow him to save his seat.
Ok… if thats the case, maybe we need to be practical and take aim at more low hanging fruit….like the very vulnerable Harry Reid. I honestly forsee an anti-Dem wave in 2010… lets make sure Reid does a little surfing that November.
The rejection of the public option by the Senate is very sad. There is a very large demographic of people that are being overlooked right now, and a public option would benefit them.
Eva Mor author of (Making the Golden Years Golden) responded beautifully to a key part of the problem:
“The administration of the existing health delivery system is bloated with waste and unnecessary cost. If information was shared by all providers of health services and all insurers by using computerized systems to store all medical records, it would cut costs and reduce errors that would save and improve lives.” http://www.ourblook.com/component/option,com_sectionex/Itemid,200076/id,8/view,category/#catid107
To regulate costs in the medical industry and update the existing Information and communication technologies would certainly cut a large portion of spending, which has featured as primary complaint in this debate all along.
I hope that when the two bills come together to be voted on the public option may make its way back into the bill.
Yeah, get the government involved. That’ll cut costs and improve efficiency.
My issue now is – What do we do? What is the way forward? How true is the saying now – they are like sheep without a shepherd. We don’t have good leaders, or strategists, or anything at all like a Reagan or Gingrich.
Is there a leader in the wings, or are we called to a new kind of resistance? Or a new kind of leadership via the internet?
I don’t even want to think what will happen if (when?) they shur down talk radio and the internet.
America died Saturday. Will it ever be resurrected?
The ‘Republicans’ are discernible as different from Democrats only by checking I.D.’s. You certainly couldn’t tell the difference by looking at political philosophy or legislative objectives as demonstrated by the history of the past decade or so.
There’s no ‘better option’ there, folks. As long as Steele and his go along to get along collegial compadres are running the party, it will be Democrat With Different Logo.
Nothing more.
I will not participate in a program that uses compulsory confiscation of my wealth to fund medical practices including but not limited to abortion.
This isn’t about getting ‘good’ health reform; it’s about getting government back within constitutional limits.
I hope the body count doesn’t go to high. But I think the possibility for the fan coming completely off the wall is there.
TmjUtah: You said,
1. “This isn’t about getting ‘good’ health reform; it’s about getting government back within constitutional limits.”
But how? How do we tame the raging beast? Lots of people now like it and want it. Is there any plan to win their hearts and minds? Any way to restrain the monster?
2. “I hope the body count doesn’t go to high. But I think the possibility for the fan coming completely off the wall is there.”
Explain what you are saying. Elaborate, etc. My thought is that the implicit (and mysterious) ‘social contract’ that we all have made and accepted (unconsciously) is strained to the breaking point or else totally broken. Deeply troubling is that almost no one at all has any actual respect for Congres or Obama. They may be admired or feared, but no one to speak of trusts them or resepcts them.
They are effectivly a “lawless” and renegade group. They write their own rules for them and another set for us. This situation cannot continue forever. The center does not hold as the poet said. Things fall down. If they are a law unto themselves, many will say, then why not me? Why should we obey their rules? This will appear as a spike in criminality on every level, but in fact what they have done is criminalize everything.
I think at some point it will be bricks and bats in the street. Is that what you were suggesting or something else.
So, the democrats still blame the Republicans for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that the democrats voted for….
Now, the democrats are willing to pass, in a high-handed partisan fashion, a bill that will cost more and kill more americans than the wars they blame on the Republicans.
It will never be repealed. Name one government program (besides defense and national security) that has ever been repealed. Just wait until “heart surgery” is a federal budget line item. Wait until “prostate cancer treatement” is a federal budget item….
I can afford good healthcare for my family, but the democrats will send us to a socialist clinic with too few doctors not even trained in the United States. I’ve been a victim of Military “healthcare” and have lost a couple of friends due to incompetence in military clinics–they almost killed me too.
The idea that my family will suffer under that kind of fatal horseshit fills me with rage.
Explain what I mean?
Nah. There’s enough internet John Wayne out there.
I’ll be a felon after health care reform passes.
Disenfranchised. For real.
Not disenfranchised like certain economic or ethnic classes that find personal i.d. or insufficient street money as insurmountable obstacles to participating in the election process.
But disenfranchised to the point where a fifty year old man who has raised a family, worked in a demanding and skilled trade, served his country, and broken no law more dastardly than a traffic ticket… disenfranchised to the point that my knowledge of what real disenfrnachised persons throughout history have done to respond to state tyranny seems like a sparkling star to follow in a dark and sad time.
The enemy doesn’t live in caves. We watch them on CSPAN.
What will I do?
Barter where I can. Pay the minimum income tax. Since construction is on life support only, I plan to be unemployed by early next year.
Advise youth against federal service of any type.
Decline to comply with the census, beyond enumerating the number of persons at this address.
Encourage civil disobedience.
Go down to the ER every Monday.
Go down to Welfare every Tuesday.
Get the max subsidy for Food Stamps, both state and federal.
Use every single State subsidized program I am qualified to participate in, including using my quarter-Sioux ancestry to qualify for education and job search assistance for the first time. I’ll have to go all Churchill, probably. Sunglasses and a hat with a feather say “Indian” to people who want to believe. I can probably parlay my felony status into victim status, .
Then complain by mail, and in person, about every single failing where the system doesn’t provide what the statute says it should.
I will be rude. In public, I will be obnoxious, and I will be sure to wear State approved logo clothing. I will treat quietly suffering citizens with contempt. I will join mewling mobs crying for (insert narcissistic/anti social/ignorant Left trope here).
I’m sure I can think of some other socially relevant ways to participate in the New America.
What? Me??? Armed resistance?
Shucks, everybody knows that felons can’t bear arms. Don’t be silly.
Have a brave new world.
The left’s persistence for the “Public option” is not over.
The left are already positioning themselves to get the “public option” added back in before final passage.
I suspect Lieberman and Nelson and others will cave. The posturing is all fake.
I’m hoping and believe that this “Health Care Reform” legislation, and the “process”–the secrecy and lack of an actual text voters and representative can see, examine and thoroughly debate, the lies, the backroom deals with Health Insurance Companies, the Pharmaceutical Industry, SEIU and other Unions, GE, the AMA and AARP, the bribes to purchase votes, and the parliamentary maneuvers to hold a cloture vote at 1 A. M. tomorrow morning, and a final vote on passage on Christmas Eve–all in a cynical attempt to insure that the fewest possible number of citizens are aware of what is happening and of how citizens are–despite their loud and overwhelming objections to any version of this unnecessary and expensive Health Care Reform–being stabbed in the back, mugged, and then, raped to boot–will “radicalize” a whole lot of formerly complaisant and clueless voters.
Congress would do well to remember that our system of government relies on voluntary compliance by the vast majority of our citizens.
What will many citizens do when they realize that they have been deliberately lied to and screwed, have been pole axed and plundered, and have to pay higher levels of taxes for four years before they will receive even one iota of care from the new “Reformed Health System,” when they realize that tens of millions of illegal aliens will receive health care that citizens will have to pay for, realize that their states will have to pay more for Medicare to pay for Nebraska Senator Nelson’s bribe of perpetual exemption for Nebraska from Medicare costs, realize that if opposed to abortion they will still have to pay for abortions, that they will be forced to buy health insurance or face fines and jail, when they experience increased waiting times, and massive bureaucratic interference in their health care decisions; all purchased at the price of massive new deficits and debt, and decreased health care for their aging family members, or they themselves if they are older and are on Medicare?
My guess is a massive purge of Democratic members of Congress and Republican fellow travelers and lawsuits of every conceivable type. But, more importantly, resistance, evasion and non-compliance”–“monkey wrenching”–at first on a limited scale, then “massive resistance” and “monkey wrenching” of all sorts–we are an ingenious people.
Theres an excellent article on Real Clear Politics by Sean Trende, who feels that the “health care bill” is “political suicide” for the Dems. I happen to agree and look forward to the 2010 elections.
The link is here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/12/19/the_health_care_bill_is_political_suicide_99590.html
The article gives a good description of the coming electoral backlash resulting from the bill, and has some comparisions to 1994.
Heres a quote summing up:
Wolla Dalbo said, “Congress would do well to remember that our system of government relies on voluntary compliance by the vast majority of our citizens.” Exactly. That is the social contract that this country depends on to keep things running. The Congress critters do not believe they serve at out pleasure. It is time to remind them where the power comes from in this country.
“Monkeywrenching” sounds good, but massive voter turnout for fiscally responsible candidates sounds even better. Onward and upward!
Go read the comments section in Politico Live, where McCain and Wallace have the short version of their discussion. This country is screwed. For generations, if not forever. Perhaps it will break into pieces. Hell, it needs to. The dumbing down of America has worked its magic.
TmjUtah . . .
Sounds like you’ve been studying Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals.” I wonder what costume I should wear for my “crashing the system” civil disobedience project.
I don’t look too ethnic, but I could probably play up my crazy old lady persona. 😉
It’s 2009.
In the quest for social justice, we are ALL ethnic.
It’s America, for Gaiea’s sake! Every man a victim, every rule a tyranny.
The basic problem facing the statists is that they’ve spent a hundred years jawboning earthshaking change. And feeling earnestly about the need for change. And worrying about injustice. And assigning blame for history.
Now that they are on the verge of getting the undivided attention of the silent majority that has spent that same last hundred years getting shit done, for doing the lifting necessary for flush toilets and wall to wall carpet, it is just and right that they should feel a little tense.
Deeds, not words.
A modest proposal, in case we ever actually have to hit Ctrl-Alt-Del on America: only those who contribute (through taxes, or military service) get to vote.
Oh, and anyone who prepends any adjective to “justice” other than “swift” or “sure” is immediately hanged from the nearest lamp post.
Right! I made a sign for our Tea Party that said, “No representation without taxation!”
The blue states outlaw firearms, the red states promote firearms. Well, well, well.
No Thomas, this is not the usual path of decadence, that is just my point.
Payoffs for states get Harry Reid to 60 votes
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30815.html
Those faces – ick. Pure corruption.
Change Nobody Believes In
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598130440164954.html
hattip Says:
“No Thomas, this is not the usual path of decadence, that is just my point.”
I think it is. I live in San Francisco so I have plenty of contact with the left wing of the Democratic Party. Their economic knownothingism is tied to lifestyle issues. Decadence is a form of not being serious. They are mostly people you wouldn’t take seriously if you had to work with them. Adult children ranting about ‘the right wing’ and other corporate conspiracies. Coddled… decadent.. and now with too much power…
Thomass, my condolences. I grew up there, but escaped. There are only so many times one can hear people talk about raising everyone’s pay by 20% as a way to address poverty.
David Foster at Chicago Boyz links to an interesting article on computers and health care savings:
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10796.html
Bottom line: Don’t expect much.
Here is a good WSJ piece that points out some of the problems with the bill:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704398304574598130440164954.html?mod=article-outset-box
It might provide a little ammo for discussions, especially the part about cost differences for different groups and the rate of expected premium costs.
I haven’t read the comments above.
I just wanted to say – it is pretty disgusting how this looks. The Democrats that were on the Fox News Sunday program with Chris Wallace were spinning their way to the moon.
They were Helicopters with rocket boosters launching themselves upwards…
They acted like “so – who cares” when Chris Wallace brought up Nebraska’s sweet deal.
As far as I’m concerned. It’s CROOKED and the Supreme Court should just strike down the legislation for being so UNCONSTITUTIONAL on grounds of UNEQUAL representation.
Darn Criminals !
“The administration of the existing health delivery system is bloated with waste and unnecessary cost. If information was shared by all providers of health services and all insurers by using computerized systems to store all medical records, it would cut costs and reduce errors that would save and improve lives.” That woman has quite the active fantasy life.
Sad but relevant to our situation:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/6852402/Woodpecker-takes-on-10ft-snake-in-heroic-struggle-for-nest.html
Crazy, brave little bird. Would that we had your honor and guts.
As you say, the camel’s head got in this time. Every government program is designed to expand. Obamacare will continue to consume our treasury and privacy until DC controls our personal lives.
For our own good, of course …
We all should write our senators who voted for Obamacare cloture, and asked “Where is the $100 million bribe for your vote? You mean you voted for this monstrosity for nothing?” 60 votes at $100 million each comes to $6 billion! Pocket change for these thugs.
When I was a member of my former Home Owners Association I used to be very unpopular because I would tell these few owners that bothered to show up at meetings that they had three choices: “Be part of the Association as your home was your greatest investment and you need to look after it; you could move out; you could shut up and do as you were told.” I also pointed out that most homeowners selected option number 3.
I expect that most people who live in this country will select option number 3.
TmjUtah: Beautiful poetry! Keep rolling!