The joker poster
Why is the Obama-as-Joker poster getting so much attention?
I think part of it is the whiteface, which is a characteristic of the Joker persona, but is easy to read as having racist (or at least racial) overtones.
But by far the main reason for the outrage is that the agitprop of the poster shocks the Left by taking a page out of the Left’s own playbook: “Hey, wait a minute,” they say, “we’re the ones who are supposed to be clever and audacious enough (and trendy and artsy and ironic enough) to do that sort of thing—not you!”
Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy.
The tables are turned, and the Left doesn’t like it one little bit. This time—at least for a moment, and in this one little area—the joke’s on them.
[ADDENDUM: Here’s another suggestion for agitators.]
I think that it would make a great postage stamp. What do think the chances are?
You cannot defeat the left by using leftist tactics. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed the ‘joker’ posters….
Stark:
I think there’s a website (stamps.com maybe?) where you can print personalized postage stamps. I’ve never tried it, though, but it would be interesting to see whether they would allow the use of this artwork. I hope somebody tries it.
Gray:
What should we do, then? I can repeat “limited Constitutional government, individual liberty, and free market capitalism” until I’m blue in the face, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.
The left’s tactics?
They are weak man’s tactics. If you can’t use your nogin, you use your emotion.
As bad as Clinton was ridiculed he was re-elected.
We need to point out substantively that ∅bama is a joke.
Every one of his economic policies are the virus that hurts America in years to come and saddles the next generation with clean-up
My office neighbor still thinks Palin said, “I can see Russia from my house”. I still tell her that was Tina Fey on SNL.
Ridicule works in one direction – to the weak and uninformed….
What does the left minded person think about the Joker pictures?
They think it’s mean. It works against us.
Looks like he’s been eating pasta again.
Iconic. This one isn’t going away. It is a simple image, grotesquely over the top with a single word beneath. Unconsciously (well, not for me as I concluded this long ago) the masses will begin to associate the image of Obama, the character of the Joker and the word ‘socialism’. Good, its about time.
I recall being in Aruba over Christmas driving around exploring the island. I was shocked to see the ubiquitous Obama posters we have become used to all over the island. Projection knows no borders, apparently.
But why the “Joker”.
What about Obama translates to “Joker”?
As astute as I am, I don’t get it.
It is not a simple message that people can relate to in my mind. It’s muddy. It’s unclear.
Gray… Mockery always has a place. It’s a tool that should be rarely used, but sometimes it is needed – either to unbalance an opponent, or force them to get to the heart of the matter.
For an example of such use…. (Eric S Raymond’s blog – on debating gun ownership)…
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1029
neo:
“The tables are turned, and the Left doesn’t like it one little bit.”
Too god-damned bad. Where can I find the T-sirt?
Jim Treacher has a hilarious take-off on the Obama/Joker/racist response to the poster. Hux-Bob says, check it out.
# harry McHitlerburtonstein Says:
August 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
neo:
“The tables are turned, and the Left doesn’t like it one little bit.”
Too god-damned bad. Where can I find the T-sirt?
Zazzle.com
I’m seeing this image popping up on ppls profiles on Facebook.
Conservatives are notoriously unfunny and unclever when it comes to effective propaganda, but this Joker poster is on par with the brilliant 2000 slogan, “Sore/Loserman”
Hats off!
Baklava Says:
“But why the “Joker”.
What about Obama translates to “Joker”?
As astute as I am, I don’t get it.”
He burned a big (really big) pile of money in the last batman movie. He did as a gesture to show he didn’t care about money. But he went on to say he did care about bombs and fire and such… which moves the poster on to the next / in group level. I think most conservatives think most leftists are motivated by nihilistic hate (vs. their [self] professed love of the poor and such)… like the joker.
why? Maybe its not the joker the way old timers see him. a more complicated thing that also incorporates other jokers and their origins.
the reason this has caught on so much is that it resonates. rocky horror picture show was a big hit for a 20k flick, and look how many biggies came from it, susan sarandon, tim curry, barry bostwick. you look at rocky horror and you say this thing captured peoples minds and hearts and they saw (and still see) it a 100 times. i was at ground zero for that one, and then i couldnt explain why, but later i read about the frankfurt school, and the philosophy and works of the people, and it became clear. the author abstracted the story of the transformation of our culture by some mysterious outsiders who would set up cultural change icons and was just using them to change us. it had all the icons and symbology and wrapped it up in jazzy song. it resonated… but that was 75, this is 2009…
so lets delve a bit.
throught the ages the harlequins, jesters, and jokers served a purpose of warning rulers about things no one else could tell them. through humor and such the best of them manipulated the court, and were highly valued for the services that they actually performed. this is different than the singular way that these older ones are seen today. as mearly the entertainers of bored and capricious kings. this is totally removed from the concept that kings are hereditary heads of state, and basically are heads of state and have all that that attends to them. its no more real than marx fat cats describe capitalists like gardner (story behind in persuit of happyness [mispelling intentional]).
so there is this that resonates. we pay attention to commedians who make social commentary, they are jokers, but jokers that get away with a lot, evne today. watch its a beautiful life? the joker.
ok… now we delve into the DC world, and batman. the joker in the original comics was cleaner and campier. with egg head and such they were buffoons as much as evil geniuses. while these are very memorable, we fell in love with the joker from the 60s adaptations. with all the sound effects as flashes of comic book writing. it was there we fell in love with the villians we shouldnt.
but then we became more nihilist. our songs went from love songs in every variations… to songs begging other people to somehow get us to feel (
Evanesence – Bring Me To Life / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAcUDEVoW60)
save me from the nothing ive become…
this is a darker time for the younger who sided with obama. you see they have no purpose, they have been denied that purpose through the constant dismantling, and warping of anything that they may like. like the frost queen in narnia, the sweetmeats are sweet in thought only, and empty.
they dont like anything because if they do, it just gets ruined. they liked willy wonka, they ruined that. they liked the three musketeers, they ruined that. they used to like having a family and a interested father teaching that, but thats now ruined by the politics. they are not in the rich and varied world of goods and bads we the older grew up in. our society with the commercials of happy families and such hides the stark facts of whats happened all around us. as long as there are families in commercials, everyone thinks there are families outside their windows.
by the way that same spoiling has happened to all their heroes, and everything elsethat they might look up to. dad, mom, church, sports, etc..
anyway… later another batman series was written. i have the first issue in a book form. again, like all the heroes, it took batman to a new level playing on the knickname the dark night.
in this version, like much of the other social mash ups and twists, batman retired, and it was years later (set in the 80s with punk gangs). it was darker, and was made so at the same place where batman returned. in that he was attacked while visiting the place of his parents death and he noted that the man who killed his parents was a poor man who was scared, and this was a punk who liked it.
from that point on, the batman mythos took a turn to a dark future. in that story the joker poisoned 15 cub scouts by lacing cotton candy at an amusement park.
this is probably a version that few here have read.
well that was incorporated into the batman series which as they “re-imagined” (disneys term for the warping process salting the meat so ya make cash on the beer), got darker.
this joker carries all the luggage of the prior ones, but he is darker. he is also insane, nihilistic. he resonates with the young.
but there is more to this. this joker is heath ledgers last piece of work. and this art is based on. looking to the articles of the time this was one of the common images: http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/2105_joker_sp_lg.jpg
like other young actors who affected the people of their time. from james dean, river phoenix, and heath ledger.
so imposing all that onto obama doesnt trigger the old things we would think of.
they are afraid to play the race card, its not “black face”, and if it is, then why didnt we notice that we were feeding this to our children in a dark mythos.
this, like the tea party people scares them. lenin was frustrated beacuse he thought with a victory everyone else would rise up. and far be it from that, its been tooth and nail and every dirty trick in the book and what do the people rise up for? being middle class.
the batman of these mythos, and the other dark games and things are the new guard. and while they have been nihilistic, and all that, down deep they do understand that they are free. maybe not conciously, but when someone starts interfering with that, like older americans, no one likes it.
to the young and new guard that joker image has big time guts and deep resonant meaning to them.
in iconic big archtypes it says: obama is a very crafty crazy harmful person. remember THIS joker has socialist values (re-imagined), remember what he did with all that money?
the joker is also a death card… besides the ace of spades… the grateful dead made a lot of a joker skeleton…
joker is also the wild card. he can appear like anything he wants to be, but he is the joker inside.
and THATS the thing that sticks it. the archetype of the joker from school is that he tells you important messages when times can be dire. from madame zelda at the crystal ball, and all over.
the joker is also a trickster, someone you cant trust, someone who is only revealed once you trust them. they can appear as any other card, but they are dopplegangers (to use a more apt summary word).
yeah… this image is going to be a serious problem. even more so. the internet and other peoples ability to then take a resonant image and work it will make that problem go viral (it already has).
i have seen more of this image in more powerful form and only in a few days. there is no way for them to stop this without pulling a card that isnt good. the kids dont like their music (pirate party), and their world screwed with. and again, they may not be politically savvy to listen to things and then decide which one is lying and so forth. but after the fact, they do know when they have been screwed as do most people.
there is a problem with nihilism
it can demoralize and put to sleep and make easy tending a population, as in russia. but it also can awaken a different outcome when mixed with real freedom. criss christopherson wrote about it, janis joplin made the line resonate through decades.
freedoms just another word for, nothing left to lose
sometimes whats demoralizing becomes uplifting as an unintentional meaning is gleaned from it.
these kids wanted their nihilism to go away, not their freedom and ability to choose what direction they move in and where or what they can do, and so on.
the joker is also a message to the state which is why they are scared. its funny, but tough people tend to expect threats. they are ready for them, and so, threats tend to be no problem. they are manageable.
but some threats. some threats are not manageable. ask briar rabbit, ask louise the XIV, ask king george, ask custer, ask napoleon, ask zelaya, ask a whole lot of people through history that underestimated or thought they had grasped things.
it will and should be interesting to watch them on this. the one thing that they can do about it, is the one thing that is completely against their natures. so they will not be wise enough to do that.
popcorn time for us here on olympus.
I like it. Images work on a very fundamental level of consciousness. It makes him look like a skull — a death symbol — entirely appropriate IMO.
Is there even such a thing as ‘whiteface’?
I thought the thing was ‘blackface’, when whites would paint their face black and then caricature blacks…
If I’m right, then, it’s just another level of absurdity with the racism charge.
Lefties are like Pavlov’s dogs… what can you say.
I never heard a peep from anyone on the left when Vanity Fair published an even more grotesque Bush Joker art print. The Obama poster, though effective has a neutral countenance. The Vanity Fair Bush Joker is truly ghastly and evil looking.
one of the most famous jesters (jockers, jongleurs, jugglers, entertainers, etc) was Tarlton.
he was jester to elizabeth I.
Here he was in the field, keeping his Father’s Swine, when a Servant of Robert Earl of Leicester . . . was so highly pleased with his happy unhappy answers, that he brought him to Court, where he became the most famous Jester to Queen Elizabeth.
one of my favorite non jesters is Paul Wust, who was asked to be a jester for he spoke his mind truthfully… when asked he said (and yes i had to look it up) “Mein Vater hat einen Narren fé¼r sich gezeugt, willst du aber einen Narren haben, so zeuge dir auch einen”
which basically says my father made his own fool you go find someone and go make your own.
court jesters, jokers, fools,and such… they appear in every court in the world. europe, china, india, japan, russia, the americas, and even in africa.
in a sense Europe is the exception rather than the rule, precisely because the fortunes of the European court jesters rose and fell with the tsunami-scale wave of medieval and Renaissance fool mania that engulfed the Continent. The concept of folly with all its variegated hues permeated Europe at all levels for several centuries, and it is against this backdrop of colorful and often contradictory manifestations of “folly” that the European jester must be seen. There were certainly jesters before the tidal wave began to swell, but it is on its crest that we see them come surfing in.
and to validate what i was saying above:
Of at least equal importance with his entertainer’s cap was the jester’s function as adviser and critic. This is what distinguishes him from a pure entertainer who would juggle batons, swallow swords, or strum on a lute or a clown who would play the fool simply to amuse people. The jester everywhere employed the same techniques to carry out this delicate role, and it would take an obtuse king or emperor not to realize what he was driving at, since “other court functionaries cooked up the king’s facts for him before delivery; the jester delivered them raw.” An informal survey of the man in the street has shown that most people will pinpoint the jester’s right to speak his mind as one of his salient characteristics. I have encountered only one person who considers this to have been more myth than reality:
There are many stories which show a jester as the only person who could counsel a stubborn king, and as such the myth of the court jester suggests that jesters could act as a check on the whimsical power of absolute monarchy. . . . I have been engaged in producing and reproducing a common myth of jesters. Even though the jesters dance right next to the power of the king, the text has been depoliticized in that it has effaced the history of the fool, and elaborated on images conjured up by Erasmus, then Shakespeare, in the task of making jesting reasonable and responsible, and thus political in modern times. . . . The respected, responsible, official jesters only functioned in small historical windows of possibility, for example: fourteenth and fifteenth century Italy and around the turn of the seventeenth century in England.
so this is a perfect resonance…
the joker is telling us the rulers something, and the presumptious servants who are rulers something.
we dont have to know what it is exactly…
beacuse the joker historically only really had one message.
pay attention, the trick is coming, wake up and watch… even in advice he draws attentions.
this is a figure that predates history…
in all courts of mans dealings
the fool serves only truth and himself, which is why the kings think him fool, for the history of them is that they would rather die than change to suit kings.
Thomass,
This is my point. I watched 2 batman movies.
It’s not easy to understand how Obama is equated with Joker and how the Joker is equated with Socialism.
I like the picture on Michelle Malkin’s book WAY better. It’s easy to get it.
http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Corruption-Cheats-Crooks-Cronies/dp/1596981091/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249430150&sr=1-1
See that picture !!! Print and distribute to every telephone pole in America !
I like the picture. They usually do these agitprop posters in fours. They can start mixing in two of these with two other images to get associations going (money burning, forced conformity with healthcare, government force, a mix of them (obama beating people with a baton or Billy club to go into the dirty public hospital factory… coffins out the back) et cetera)….
artfldgrs, are quite the jesters.
us red headed scaramouches have been talking..
been called fools, and other names too… tin hatters… 🙂
here is a great link i just found and hit enter above before i could post it
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/640914.html
It is in the nature of jesters to speak their minds when the mood takes them, regardless of the consequences. They are neither calculating nor circumspect, and this may account for the “foolishness” often ascribed to them. Jesters are also generally of inferior social and political status and are rarely in a position (and rarely inclined) to pose a power threat. They have little to gain by caution and little to lose by candor–apart from liberty, livelihood, and occasionally even life, which hardly seems to have been a deterrent. They are peripheral to the game of politics, and this can reassure a king that their words are unlikely to be geared to their own advancement. Jesters are not noted for flattery or fawning. The ruler can be isolated from his courtiers and ministers, who might conspire against him. The jester too can be an isolated and peripheral figure somehow detached from the intrigues of the court, and this enables him to act as a kind of confidant.
its an abstract message that is being written in icons, and archetypes that have resonated with us for millinea..
here is a viral version
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-socialist-joker_1.jpg
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-socialist-joker_06.jpg
this one with a health care twist
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-card-large.jpg
TIME magazine rework
http://www.moonbattery.com/obama-joker-time-cover.jpg
its really all over the place. t shirts, etc…
obama joker gets:
Results 1 – 10 of about 6,200,000 for obama joker.
looks like someone put it through the socialist poster generator
s.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/1/27/1/joke-joker-obama-22459-1233036266-4.jpg
and the administration is looking to label it a racist hate crime!!!
as i said, its not in their natures…
Thomass Says:
August 4th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Sure there is. Clowns and mimes use it all the time. Going out on a limb a little, I think there was a kind of traditional Japanese theater (Noh theater, maybe?) that used it too.
Bob Dylan performed in whiteface during his Rolling Thunder Revue tour in the mid-70s.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iggy_p/301543761/
rickl Says:
“Sure there is. Clowns and mimes use it all the time. Going out on a limb a little, I think there was a kind of traditional Japanese theater (Noh theater, maybe?) that used it too.”
Ah, now I get it. The rednecks hate Japanese people and that’s why these posters are racist. Double plus bad. 🙂
Well, if we are delving into the symbolism of whiteface (re: rather than racism) there is always aristocrats and disease (both symptom of some while used to hide others).
Also geishas.
But the Joker’s whiteface clearly comes from clown makeup.
Hey! How come you get to edit your posts while we can’t? 🙂
For instance, I should have used a question mark at the end instead of an exclamation point.
rickl: because I have magic powers on this blog. In fact, I can add a question mark at the end of your previous comment if you would like.
Aww, shucks, thanks, Neo. 😉
rickl: no sooner said than done.
last post for a long while on this thread.
I just realized when I zoomed out that this went viral all around the world in hours. By the time anyone would know about it everyone would know about it.
And that this thread could have been titled.
obama vs capitalism
or
obama vs american inventiveness
That maybe putting a whole lot of engineers, and highly skilled people out of work might not be the same as it is in other countries.
Despite how dumbed down we are, there is still a very large amount of independent people with resources, skills, and lots of time to spend venting their frustrations against an administration that has kicked them to the streets. This is not the same as manufacturers in factories of the, these are the skilled part of our population.
American capitalism has consistently strived to provide the people with their whims. Socialists may look at that and see only capricious waste… but more savvy people would see that as the power of technology in the people’s hands.
Till today, the difficulties of printing made it easier to limit or find where things may have been coming from. Of course woodblock and other forms always were used in the past, but compared to a press with a heavy fly wheel, their output was too small. But electronically? The ink and everything is embedded in the receiver and so one no longer toils in process but revels in distributed creation.
Capitalism does not restrict, it provides, and we as part of that society have been provided by the hated ones access to the kind of thing that usually was reserved to those with a lot more money.
Photoshop is in millions of homes. Video cameras, still cameras, editors, digital splicing, sound mixing, and more are all available in lots of combinations that are only limited by the needs wants and creativity of the people who went out and made the markets and supported that.
On TOP of the internet there is another scale free network called the cellular telephone company. so with the newer hybrid phones, this same kind of instant access instant connection of a scale free network is available.
I don’t have much space before I get killed, but this is a fundamental change in our society. I spoke before about the fracturing and filling in, from gossip, to newsletter, to paper, to national paper, to radio, then the screen, then TV, then eventually the internet and cellular scale free networks.
Each one necessitated a new effort to gain control of the situation. But as long as the system was progressing technologically and the people were free to create (the internet was coming even if darpa didn’t do it — at the same time there was a bbs board community using the same kinds of equipment doing something similar, but not).
The needs of the people insured that the system would recognize the failing system that was now controlled not because of the nepharious things it did or said, but because it became inefficient and in a capitalist market, inefficiencies naturally die out and are replaced with more effective productive ones that are not fettered.. The wild west of the early days of the internet are gone… but it took decades…
The internet networks create the illusion of intimacy through time dilation. The way we constructed it was scale free, so that there was no real way to stop traffic (Except between countries borders). Without shutting down telephones, radio, cells, and internet backbones… there is no way to halt, control, or prevent the expulsion of information and potential data.
given its ‘intimacy’ in time, and the voting nature of ‘viral’ information to bring the best to the top, the best work of millions (for whatever reason best is decided) is sorted through, and the few get the most exposure (with resonance being very important).
However this among other things is troubling them a lot
Honduras has been getting its message out and only recently has the cap gone on it to the point we are forgetting to pay attention.
This poster was up, someone snapped it, it got traded, reached critical and ended up in millions of homes on multi million hard drives and thumbnail drives the globe over. There is absolutely no way to retrieve or erase it.
The nature of the network is that the more nodes that light up and xmit, the more and faster information gets to each node with only the most loosely connected nodes failing or being any longer period. Normally this effect peters out before saturation occurs and that would be those that saw or missed the event. However an especially strong event, or resonant will cause so much transmittal over many lines, not just net and cell, but radio and papers, and television too. All of them cross talk to saturate a scale free network.
This is why more than past history that they are trying desperately to get certain laws with loose definitions up. Even that wont work since this network can xmit varying encrypted information. there is encrypted information always interspersed with the more sanguine and open stuff.
[its really the nell of the force society if such society doesn’t shut it down completely. The efficiency that it gives and ease makes that a nigh impossibility. The liberal future has always been a dead project, but this kind of thing shows that the only future that will work and be peaceful, productive, clean and free, is the one that fulfills middle class values. The main center mass of the population of good and functional people who just want to live, grow, have families, and if not, be free for the most part. They have out-liberated the liberals (image)]
After the gates thing the last thing recently the LAST thing to play was race. The net ripped them a new one in the public’s eye, and so they squelched themselves again. As a la writer has said, when they are scared they pull out the race card.
The ONLY thing they could do was ignore it not give it air. but the first one in my list above was briar rabbit, and the story is “Brer Rabbit meets a Tar Baby”
Obama in the story would be brer rabbit…
Someone out there has made brer rabbit Obama a tar baby. a tar baby is best left alone, but its not brer’s nature to do so. .
THE WONDERFUL TAR BABY STORY
xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/remus/tar-baby.html
[a copied analysis edited for brevity]
This story is perhaps the first story in which the reader sees a dual side of Brer Rabbit.
Instead of the victimized underdog, we learn of the many “affronts” that Brer Rabbit has committed within the animal community.
We also learn of his prideful nature when he insists that the Tar-Baby is remiss in ignoring “respectubble folks” like himself.
Essentially, this story introduces a fundamental aspect of Harris’ tales–the reader reaction to Brer Rabbit. After his depiction in “The Wonderful Tar-Baby Story”, he assumes a much more complex characterization–a characterization that makes it more difficult for the reader to render a judgement about him.
Do we applaud him for being the underdog or do we condemn the fact that he does not triumph because of his good nature, but rather through his trickery?
In the introduction to the tales, Harris identified this dilemma by commenting on his own mixed feelings in rooting for Brer Rabbit, while having misgivings about his manner of escape.
In many ways, the racial characterization is as blurred as the moral characterization. If the tale is to be read as the depiction of one race triumphing over another, who is the victor in Tar-Baby? Contemporary literary critics, like Houston Baker, have suggested that the trickster figure–Brer Rabbit–frequently represents the way slaves saw themselves–getting along in a white plantation culture through subversion and cleverness.
When Brer Rabbit is caught in the sticky substance of the Tar-Baby, the social implications of the tale shift. Instead of lording his “respectubbleness” over the Tar-Baby, Brer Rabbit is at the mercy of the Tar-Baby and its creator–Brer Fox.
Gray… Mockery always has a place.
For an example of such use…. (Eric S Raymond’s blog – on debating gun ownership)…
Why should we have to resort to mocking the people who would take our guns when we’ve got the guns?
Stop thinking collectively, and thinking of the collective, and find something individual to do.
This isn’t a bottom-up Maoist Peoples Revolution. This is the producers and builders being hurt by the parasites and takers.
We are not all in this together, some have a lot more to lose….
Will:
Thank you for the link.
The poster presents the man behind the mask about which we know very little. He is a Manchurian Candidate of sorts doing the work of radical forces.
“They think it’s mean. It works against us.”
They only think it is mean because they are trained too. They also originally thought the anti-conservative stuff was mean – however it sticks in their minds and *works*. Heck not only did many think that much of the anti Bush art was mean it truly was, yet it worked didn’t it?
“Stop thinking collectively, and thinking of the collective, and find something individual to do.”
Why? I’m certainly no collectivist (I do not even really like being around other people), yet there are many out there. Any particular reason we should tell them to go screw themselves? There is nothing inherent about being a conservative and that type of collectivist at the same time so I see no reason to shun them.
I firmly agree with Reagan about distill Conservatism to it’s core. For me that is small govt, strong national defense, and power concentrated at the local level. There are other issues I have opinions on (say abortion) but unless it goes and violates “small govt” I’ll let you into the tent. Indeed, I think that stuff should be local, not federal.
So, yes, I’ll tell the collectivists that and appreciate protest art that appeals to them. That was “Big Tent Conservatism”, it crushed the leftist then and it would crush the leftist to this day.
Artfldgr Says: “its really all over the place. t shirts, etc…”
Yes. This image is everywhere. Amazing how quickly stuff like this takes off and spreads.
I think the image is totally creepy. But I have to admit that the first time you see it, it just grabs your attention.
I would love to know who created this.
Why not?
With all due respect, I have to disagree. In my experience, lefties are exquisitely sensitive to ridicule. Fashionistas that they tend to be, the notion that their perspective isn’t cool, indeed is being laughed at, torments them. Validation of their views by the hip underpins their psyches, just as it does those of Hollywood celebrities. To be laughed at punctures that rather fragile balloon.
And don’t deride the support of the weak and ill-informed. Unfortunately, each of them has as many votes as you or I.
Why not? Let’s try ridicule first. If nothing else, it’s fun to watch the lefties befoul themselves with indignation. They can dish it out, but they can’t take it.
There is nothing inherent about being a conservative and that type of collectivist at the same time so I see no reason to shun them.
The NYT and other MSM dinosaurs aren’t losing money because of collective action, or boycotts, but because thousands of individuals decided individually to stop buying their crap.
So, yes, I’ll tell the collectivists that and appreciate protest art that appeals to them. That was “Big Tent Conservatism”, it crushed the leftist then and it would crush the leftist to this day.
Fortunately, 30 years ago, the producers and builders were nominally conservative, by default. They’re all gone now. I didn’t say to shun them, just don’t look to The Peoples to be the vanguard of some conservative revolution.
Why won’t doctors decide individually not to treat anyone on Obamacare?
Obamacare should have been DOA with the retort: “Not a chance, doctors, individually, won’t lose income to treat people on that plan.”
The only reason the grand plan of Obamacare works is that we can rely on doctors, the producers, to suffer for ‘the collective good’.
We are so steeped in those ideas that we are all willing to suffer under the yoke of ‘the collective good’.
Maybe it’s a dumb thought to come up over a funny, and enjoyable, Obama poster, but I still can’t help but think: “Why do we have to resort to powerless ridicule when we, ultimately, hold the power?”
And don’t deride the support of the weak and ill-informed.
No, we support and comfort them with untold millions of our income and talk in hushed tones to avoid offending them.
Unfortunately, each of them has as many votes as you or I.
That’s why a conservative movement has to start with those who have the most to lose, not the most to gain from voting.
There is nothing our government won’t do for the votes of the weak and uniformed that we won’t support with our dollars and our behavior.
But if we can achieve our goals without spending untold millions, merely by mocking the socialists, making them look ridiculous and the butt of jokes, why should we abjure that strategy? There are other ways of exerting influence besides essentially buying their allegiance. Who pays the cognitively-challenged to get tattoos?
making them look ridiculous and the butt of jokes, why should we abjure that strategy?
‘Cuz it doesn’t work against them. It only empowers their worldview–the left doesn’t care about image, they care about power; and the cool, hip image accretes to power. Those tactics only ever worked against the Right ‘cuz we have more to lose.
There are other ways of exerting influence besides essentially buying their allegiance. Who pays the cognitively-challenged to get tattoos?
No, no: I don’t buy into identity politics. Not even the tattoo-identity politics.
The personal is not political.
With your gratuitous comment, you’ve illustrated my point perfectly:
We need to get out of that mindset. Those tattoo-shop owners are small businessmen (and women) and are the natural constituency of the Right, but for right-wing identity politics….
They think it’s mean.
Well, boo hoo.
The Right is now so feckless that we’ll even applaud graffitti if it supports us…..
From the flag@whitehouse message:
“There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .”
Amazing. From casual conversation? Ok, kiddies, be sure to turn in all your friends for re-education.
Hmmm . . . I did not intend that flag thing to be some kind of link.
Sorry.
I wonder what “fishy” means. I get some pretty “fishy” Nigerian scam emails from time to time. Guess I should forward those to them.
Obama is a blank slate, a vacuum all those sucker voters got sucked into, an empty vessel to be filled with fantasy. That was the strength that got him the votes but maybe that’s also his weakness. This image makes him into death. I don’t see clown — I see skull. A skull with a bloody red mouth. He is the body snatcher. He wants to make us all into totalitarian zombies. The reason this is causing a big excitement among the Progressives is that they realize how effective this image is.
That’s where we disagree. Well, let me be more specific. Hard-core Reds don’t care about image, I agree with that, but numerically they’re a small minority. The vast majority of bovine humanoids — i.e., where political power is won or lost — care very much about image, and being seen to be “smart.” (I would posit that that desire vary inversely with actual intelligence; the profoundly stupid seem those most desperate to contradict the reality that confronts them daily.)
We need to use the “Fredo effect” to geld leftist initiatives, by convincing the Fredos of the world that supporting leftist rubbish makes others consider them stupid, which is anathema to them (because they suspect — correctly — that they are stupid). Ridicule of leftist proposals plays a critical role in influencing these people to oppose such proposals.
We need to use the “Fredo effect” to geld leftist initiatives, by convincing the Fredos of the world that supporting leftist rubbish makes others consider them stupid, which is anathema to them (because they suspect — correctly — that they are stupid).
You cannot trump identity politics by engaging in it. Just say “no” to identity politics: it’s evil.
Reject Maoism: The personal is not political.
The right cannot win by politicizing personal choices. As soon as the right attempts to win by politicizing the personal, it creates an opportunity for the left to exploit.
Oh for goodness sake. It’s just a silly poster. In a week people will have forgotten about it.
Oh for goodness sake. It’s just a silly poster. In a week people will have forgotten about it.
Well, it’s not our fault Republicans don’t have Vanity Fair:
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/07/bush-as-joker.html
We’ll do better.
The poster is both funny (i.e. surprising and true) and horrifying, and that’s why it went viral in hours.
OB is right. Ridicule the Left.
Check out this Google Image search on “Bush carnival Germany.”
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=bush+carnival+germany&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I loved Bob Owens’ take, at ConfederateYankee:
——————————————————–
“A lot of people are getting their noses out of joint about a poster popping up around Los Angeles comparing President Barack Obama to the Joker.
“Frankly, I don’t get it.
“One embraces terrorists and madmen, is dedicated to anarchy and the destruction of capitalist society, and sends the population fleeing in horror from his creations.
“The other is a fictional character played by the late Heath Ledger”.
——————————————————–
–
Baklava says, “As astute as I am, I don’t get it.
It is not a simple message that people can relate to in my mind. It’s muddy. It’s unclear.”
Bak, usually you’re pretty accurate, but you’re off on this one. It works and it works very well as Grackle correctly observed, “Images work on a very fundamental level of consciousness. It makes him look like a skull — a death symbol — entirely appropriate IMO.”
However, everyone is entitled to their opinions. It’s why they make different colored paint.
Think about the effectiveness of political cartoons. Also understand by the very reaction of those on the left, that it was a direct hit.
The other positive about this is using humor and ridicule, which is not the exclusive territory of the left. Look at the effective (verbal) ridicule of Kerry, Dukakis, Carter, Mondale, etc., the list goes on.
In that vein, I’m going to have much of my future postage carry this stamp. Here’s one place to get a custom postage stamp.
Gray, I take your point, that we should convince others of the merits of our ideas.
Unfortunately, that presupposes a level of intellect not widely found amonst the electorate. Most people – even most college graduates, I’m sorry to say – are somewhere in between bored and baffled by abstact ideas. Are we then to endure fundamentally flawed decisions enabled by the cognitively challenged, and still more by the cognitively stomped and left for dead?
I don’t think so. We need to communicate with the left half of the Gaussian in terms that resonate with them, if for no other reason than to neutralize the pernicious influence that they might otherwise exert. We’ve suffered because in the past we’ve failed to connect with that demographic. A lengthy discourse on the failings of Keynesian economics isn’t going to move these folks; causing them to laugh at Reds will.
Sorry, that should be “amongst” and “abstract.”
Preview would be my friend…
Are we then to endure fundamentally flawed decisions enabled by the cognitively challenged, and still more by the cognitively stomped and left for dead?
I don’t think the sentiment:
“Most people are just too dumb to understand our ideas, so we’ll just ridicule them until they join us to avoid more ridicule.”
Is exactly “Reaganesque”….
Anyway, since I don’t think anyone has mentioned it… a little subversion is fun. As long as its not alienating moderates… hurting anyone… actually vandalizing property (people put these stupid posters up all the time… including promoters… these will get plastered over soon enough)… et cetera…
When I was growing up, things were pretty much like now. The left ran everything and still claimed (ah la Che shirt) to be the rebels… but the truth was being conservative was the underground thing. Well, those days are back and I think things / stunts like this are fun…
Tim P said: Bak, usually you’re pretty accurate, but you’re off on this one. It works and it works very well”
I’ll dispute the “works very well” assessment. The message has people scratching their heads… what is the message besides the world “socialism”.
I pointed to the image on Michelle Malkin’s book because it seems to me to be something that DOES “work very well”.
She takes their own image and shatters it….
“Gray, I take your point, that we should convince others of the merits of our ideas.”
I too understood his point, I just mostly find it a “purist” idea that decides we can only win under really strict circumstances that do not exist in the worl (nor ever have). I’ve mostly said my thoughts about it though what I’m going to respond to you also has some relevance to the idea.
“Unfortunately, that presupposes a level of intellect not widely found amonst the electorate. ”
I highly disagree with that – I think many many many people (including Obama) have *more* than enough intellect to absorb it, process it, and come to the right idea – I just think that we have lost our ability to train for it.
Propaganda such as this photo (and much of the leftist “art” that was anti-Bush) speak to what people of intellect *have* been trained to understand. This is the larger part of what our edumacation (I refuse to call it an education) system has done. People resist being told what to do a great deal, you only have to look at kids rebelling against thier parents to see that. However how we think has a bigger impact on this than anything, if we think our ideas come from our ourselves we cling to them often in the face of overwhelming evidence.
This is ultimately where conservatism is going – people that actually think an argument our based on it merits alone are a dying breed. This is true for both the left and the right (and I know a number of leftist that rail just as much as we do about it). Were it still the case that a reasoned argument conveyed through text was well regarded we wouldn’t be where we are now – I think you would agree with that. However I note that this type of “gut feeling commercialism” takes a similar amount of talent (though a very different type of one) and it is where our modern society is heading.
Really, a well done picture such as this one can very well be as damaging for similar reasons as a well written paper would have 50 years ago. It can and does cause a similar thought process (people have *not* become less intelligent) but for the past few years the leftist have been the masters of this and the conservative floundering. As younger generations become conservative (as that is the normal shift in a population) the ability to speak to others that think that way will come to our side. Just be careful you do not run them off because they do not think the same as we do – whomever originally did this ought to have a bright future in our ranks.
Heck, I’ll even go so far as to say as time progresses and we get people who are good at this type of thing people will learn to *read and think* about things, not just watch and feel. In a sense it is like how I slowly learned to appreciate a number of vegetables I never liked on their own – I found where I did like them and moved on from there. If this causes just a handful to actually read and *think* about things we will win as long as we can produce such a thing and I think it may very well do so.
I stated in a thread a few days ago that people should hit all book stores with spray paint and a magic marker, and head for the “Alinsky” aisle. Spray over “radicals” and pencil in “republicans”. Or conservatives, libertarians, whatever floats your boat.
That is sort of what this poster does, and as has been said, the mockers don’t like being made a mockery of.
So in that sense, it won’t work. They’ll dig their heels in never realizing, or never admitting, that nothing more than turnabout is on display.
I remember during the elections, one of the recurring headlines from all corners was the fact the campaign signs and posters for McCain / Palin were always being stolen, if not destroyed in place. Even out of people’s front yards. The opposite was not the case. I assume the same is happening with the joker posters.
I remember when the Bush administration first took office, they found all the W’s had been removed from all keyboards in the white house. Funny, sure. But keyboards cost money, so I was a bit miffed about that part.
But that’s part of what we are dealing with. And it escalates as they deem necessary, situation dependent.
The thing of it is, to me, although the racist card, as dog eared as it is, remains the trump they use over and over – this is not about race at all. It’s just all they have that works every time. It is ideology. A large percentage is evidently happy with living under government nannyism. Those are the useful idiots (that includes the white guilt group) the “left in power” are intentionally appealing to. One vote is one vote. The carrot used is the lie they won’t have be responsible for themselves, their lot in life, their standard of living. The target group has no problem with others who do better, via effort, being forced to pay for them via confiscatory taxation. It’s payback, you see. That 250K level is on its way to the basement now, though. The cat was let out of the bag on the Sunday shows. But, it’s not like anyone with a brain believed the joker in the first place.
I gotta say I love this poster!
One more small cut out among thousands…….
The Left depends on images and symbols, not facts or argument, and control of the symbolic common narrative. They depend on euphemism, deflection, misdirection, sophistry, and personal attacks. Humpty-Dumptyism is essential for them, as we have discussed. They have established a wonderful social asymmetry, in which they can be as mean as they like to anyone else, but if anyone is mean to them–or even contrary–they get to act as if they were shocked and appalled.
This kind of propaganda subverts their newest icon. It is transgressive in the way it ignores the taboos of the mainstream narrative. It is well designed to get under Mr. Obama’s famously thin skin. Hypersensitivity to criticism (for example, about his ignorance and lack of intellectual achievement) may turn out to be his Achilles heel.
Sorry if the paragraphs above are a little dense and may seem theoretical to some. To my eyes, the practices of the Left are the natural consequences of the post-modernism and deconstructionism in which I as a budding literary theorist was educated 30 years ago.
Can the Left (“Progressives” whatever) be embarrassed? I’m with OB on this. Look at the way the run away from the label “liberal,” which has a fine old pedigree. They are terrified of criticism and labels. Watch them squirm when they have to come into the daylight and defend their true beliefs.
Welcome to the kitchen, Mr. Obama. We’ll see if you can stand the heat.
The poster is doing exactly the right thing. Posters, by definition, are for the street. They’re the equivalent of the killer wise crack. We need that just as much as we need the thoughtful, informative policy statements, maybe more.
I’m not sure the caption “socialism” is the perfect one for the image, but it’s pretty damn good. Hope Joker goes viral as hell.
Baklava asked “what about Obama translates into the joker”?
Well, didn’t the Joker have a Manhattan sized chip on his shoulder and want to crash the system?
Rush Limbaugh said recently that when it becomes “cool” to make fun of the One it’s the beginning of the end, or words to that affect. I say let’s use everything at our disposal to stop him.
Another good example of effective ridicule are the bumper stickers, “Support Obama-send him home”, and, “I support the President, I just disagree with all his policies”, both sporting the Obama red, white, and blue sunrise seal. Both are taken from the left’s attitude during the war, “I support the troops but not the war”, and, “Support the troops-bring them home”.
You cannot defeat the left by using leftist tactics.
Only if you simply employ those tactics to advance one’s one strategery. Sun Tzu:
If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.
Why would Obama be characterized as Keith Ledger’s Joker?
Check out two new efforts from Obama & Co. out today.
First, a DNC video saying that protestors at town hall meetings are “a Mob” of crazies and paid agitators, and saying “call off the mob.”
Next, a request, from the Whitehouse website no less, that anyone who finds any “misinformation” about health care reform on the web, gets an email or hears such misinformation in conversation, forward the details to a White House website, no doubt including details as to the source of such “misinformation” (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/).
Seems to me what when an ACORN mob takes over a meeting and browbeat target officials, that’s democracy in action, but when others do it, then its out of control and potentially violent actions by a “mob.”
Seems to me that such “informing” is a central feature of all of the dictatorships around the world, past and present.
Something I’ve noticed is a similarity between this poster and the “Tea Party” events.
May sound odd, but consider this:
Both seem to be grassroots type efforts, and both are emanating from very intangeble sources.
With the Tea Party events, you have groups popping up all over the place with similar mindsets, complaints, and activities, but there is no interconnecting network or central organization that the Left can target and attack in response.
It makes the Tea Party events somewhat less than optimally efficient – but at the same time that very decentralization that is a weakness is at the same time a strength because there is no central figure or organization the Left can target as “the enemy” and smear.
For the Left, it’s kind of like trying to punch a hole through liquid. It really is a futile effort.
This poster is similar in that there is no target the Left can attack as the source, and at this point this poster has gone viral – EVERYBODY knows about it – and a large number of people will adopt it in one way or another.
Regardless of who the anonymous artist was that created it, this has gone way beyond their ability to control now.
I expect someone to criticize the anonymity of the source, with words like “coward” being used to describe them, but considering how Obama’s troops have shown a willingness to use the full force of the government to attack their political opponents (pulling dealership franchises from dealerships that donated money to the wrong political party for instance, and giving those franchises to their competitors) I’d say it’s pretty smart to keep the source anonymous.
With no single identifiable source as the origin of this image, and with so many groups embracing it as symbolic of what they think of Obama, there is no way it can be forced back into the can now and there is no single source that the Left can attack as retribution for this poster.
Since there is no singular entity the Left can attack for either the poster or the Tea Parties, they are forced into a defensive posture.
More cuts among thousands….
Consistent with Alinsky’s rule on ridicule, I have turned off my spam filter and am now forwarding all of it to flag@whitehouse.gov. I trust the Obumblers will find my tips useful.
I too understood his point, I just mostly find it a “purist” idea that decides we can only win under really strict circumstances that do not exist in the worl (nor ever have).
Not my point at all. I’m not a ‘purist’ by any stretch.
My point is that we don’t have to create any strict circumstances, that there is no more natural sentiment than: “No, I worked for that, you can’t have it.”
Again, why resort to powerless ridicule when you already have the money, the guns and the power?
In hindsight, Hillary would not have been able to get away with all Obama has been trying to pull off. Her health care plan crashed and burned after all. With that in mind, perhaps he is dangling from puppet strings after all. He has definitely been useful to date. For you yacht owners out there, he also appears to be a good choice as a sacrificial zinc. There is enough in his closet that if those who are covering for him instead let the light be turned on, say in 2011……..
Gray–How do you think we got in the position we are in today, with virtually all of the key positions of power in our society held by Leftists, and with all of the old certainties, attitudes, institutions and moral codes shattered, discredited or subverted?
We got here because all the fundamental building blocks and traditional aspects of our society, government, religion, ruling elites, values and culture were relentlessly attacked from all sides by the Left and Postmodernist thought.
It is time to turn the tables, and that means we dispossessed need to use all of the same tactics that were so effectively and successfully used against us. That means any and all things that distract, demoralize, infuriate, bog down, sidetrack, upset and preoccupy the opposition are useful and all should be used; case in point, the Poster.
Wolla Dalbo,
I agree up to a point – that point being our side should never stoop to lying.
Ridicule – absolutely! Lying, never.
I once heard that the best humor is based upon honest observation – and it certainly applies to The Won.
So, not suggesting you included that in your list of accepted tactics, just saying our side should remain above that.
We got here because all the fundamental building blocks and traditional aspects of our society, government, religion, ruling elites, values and culture were relentlessly attacked from all sides by the Left and Postmodernist thought.
And we were nice enough, and law-abiding enough, and to go along with it.
It is time to turn the tables, and that means we dispossessed need to use all of the same tactics that were so effectively and successfully used against us. That means any and all things that distract, demoralize, infuriate, bog down, sidetrack, upset and preoccupy the opposition are useful and all should be used; case in point, the Poster.
But the left loves being distracted, demoralized, infuriated, bogged down, sidetracked, upset and preoccupied. Lefties thrive on that shit. Those are their greatest attributes.
How does giving them more of what they love help defeat them?
Wolla says: It is time to turn the tables,
Sure. We should use all tools in the toolbox (legal and ethical)
This image isn’t the right tool.
I think what bothers me is the changing of Obama’s face.
I think the reason why the image on Michelle Malkin’s book doesn’t bother me and actually makes me happy is because it’s not changing his facial appearance – it is only shattering his own logo for hope and change.
It’s easy to understand as shattered dreams..
Sure. We should use all tools in the toolbox (legal and ethical)
But the left has now redefined what “legal” and “ethical” is over the past 40 years! That is what I’m talking about.
Furthermore, the only tools we have in our toolbox are the ones that fit only our own hot-buttons.
Which the left purchased to use one us with our own money.
I don’t understand your post Gray.
legal and ethical: just because the left pulls $60 per month from people’s paychecks forcefully and uses it for propaganda doesn’t mean we get to.
Tools: Don’t limit the amount of tools we can use. Think outside the toolbox. 🙂
Society seems to have 2 levels of discourse.
One is intellectual, which is where the Right is strongest in that debate is based upon facts and logic.
The other is pop culture, which is based upon emotional responses. This is where the Left is strongest.
This poster is very effective in the pop culture.
It creates a strong emotional response to anyone seeing it – and whether the viewer agrees 100% with the original artists intentions, there are enough people fed up already with Obama and his minions that this image strikes a strong response with them.
That which is effective should not be set aside.
If you only want to debate on an intellectual level, then you leave half the battlefield to the enemy.
If you go into pop culture arena attempting to use intellect to sway the citizenry, you lose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596981091/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0QJQV6FW9DRA40TY39YM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
I find the outrage amongst leftists about the Obama poster quite amusing.
They really have no basis for this claim because it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Obama is a socialist. See this video of his ultimate plans for universal healthcare:
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-on-single-payer-system.html
Second, they revert back to their tried and true tactic of racism accusations. I just don’t see it here. I however don’t really see a strong connection between the Joker and Obama. Maybe, it’s him being a Joke? Or him being an interloper bent on destroying this country?
Third, they had no problem with all the Bush bashing pictures? Here’s a few examples:
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/07/bush-as-joker.html
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=632405
Confession: I don’t get out much and didn’t recognize the image as the movie Joker when I first saw it. Even for someone who “didn’t get it” the image is disquieting. And for the record, I think it’s a reach to say it’s racist but when you’re looking for a way to (in your own mind) assume the higher ground, I guess it’s any port in the storm. More on leftist tactics later.
I suspect the Obamaites are particularly discomfited by the Joker image because they perceive it might be a paradigm-changer. It is disquieting and if the viewer “gets” the Joker it might be disquieting enough to kick him out of his conception of Obama and grasp another one, even if just for a minute. If the image was right, there’s no going back.
As for adopting Alinsky’s tactics, please bear in mind Alinsky didn’t invent them. They are used daily on elementary school playgrounds across the country. I think what makes Alinkskyites so annoying is that one doesn’t expect whiny, playground bullying in an adult debate.
Oh, yeah, and it helps that the Joker poster points up how remarkably thin-skinned Obama is. Richard Nixon had a thicker skin than Obama does.
None of my friends on the Left are upset by this poster. Big deal. I don’t think many Obama supporters actually care. Neither does Obama. Why would he?
Instead it’s those who hate Obama who think this is some kind of victory or something.
Odd.
Baklava: What if instead, you reassembled the round image on the front of Ms. Malkin’s book and added the little neck containing a big, fat, sparkly fuse to produce a bomb like Bugs Bunny would hand to Daffy Duck? You know, the kind that won’t go off until 1.5 seconds after Daffy recognizes it’s a bomb?
You’re welcome. Just cite your source. 8^)
It’s actually more effective if you have seen the movie. Heath Ledger played a very different kind of joker, a sociopathic but otherwise ordinary man who managed to effectively take over Gotham City primarily by saying whatever it took to make people do what he wanted. Literally every word out of his mouth was intended not to communicate, but to manipulate. The rest was done entirely with cheap consumer goods that he manipulated thousands of citizens into moving into the right locations at the right times to cause death and destruction on a massive scale, most often to the very people who had done his bidding.
Racist overtones aside, it’s rather amazingly appropriate.
Yeah, thats a good point. Everything the joker said was a form of manipulation.
Why so serious?
The real question to ask is, if creating an image of an elected official that draws comparison to a monster or a murderer, then why wasn’t there any controversy over the many posters declaring that George W. Bush was another infamous Austrian painter? It reveals the Democratic Party’s hypocrisy, and the Republicans should call them on that.
– G
If you only want to debate on an intellectual level, then you leave half the battlefield to the enemy.
No. Not my point at all. I didn’t argue that. I don’t know who was arguing that, but it wasn’t anyone on this thread.
You can’t defeat the left using tools of the left just like you can’t defeat Al Qaida by using US suicide bombers.
By not using GI suicide bombers, we aren’t ceding the ‘suicide bomber’ half of the battle field to Al Qaida…..
And the Obama-as-Joker poster event has ended.
Burst radius: 0 meters; Effectiveness: 0.
It was kinda funny, though….
OK, what’s next?
Gray, you’ve sharpened my point. I’m not saying ridicule those we’re trying to convince, but rather ridicule the advocates of the other side, to make them the objects of derision among those we’re trying to convince. A very different ball of wax.
Recall Reagan did exactly that to Jimmy Carter in the 1980 Presidential campaign, when he beat Carter over the head (oh frabjous day!) by repeatedly saying, “There you go again,” making Carter look ridiculous. As Wikipedia says,
Reagan would use the line in a few debates over the years, always in a condescending way that disarmed his opponent.
Similarly, Walter Mondale used “Where’s the beef?” to effect on Gary Hart.
That’s the kind of ridicule I’m proposing. It’s damned effective.
It reveals the Democratic Party’s hypocrisy, and the Republicans ‘
But that technique only works on us.
The left doesn’t care about their own hypocrisy or charges of hypocrisy. They wear it as a badge of honor!
They care about your hypocrisy, and they know that you care too.
Great. Then everyone’s happy. Americans had a good laugh, liberals didn’t take offense. Win win.
That’s the kind of ridicule I’m proposing. It’s damned effective.
It was very effective, but we haven’t been able to replicate that kind of success ‘cuz as a movement, the right is leaderless.
Reagan never fought the left on their turf. Both Bushes, and McCain, always fought the left on their own turf.
Rush always says (paraphrase): It’s impossible to satirize the left, ‘cuz anything you come up with isn’t as crazy as what they actually do.
ModDem Says:
“Instead it’s those who hate Obama who think this is some kind of victory or something.”
I read that kinda odd language of love and hate for years on a Mike Moore forum. The lefties would call us Bush lovers and say we hated Moore.
I didn’t really love Bush or hate Moore… but after watching progressives slobber all over Obama and show their hatred of Bush for years… I get it. Projection.
Gray,
Regarding your example…..Al Quaeda killed our GI’s. Our GI’s killed a LOT of Al Quaeda.
They used different means, but the end result was the same for the dead and BOTH means involved killing.
Our GI’s were smart enough, and equipped well enough, that suicide bombing was never on the table.
I’m simply pointing out that if you decide not to use ridicule as a weapon against the left, and if you rely completely on rational, logical, reasoned arguments as to why the citizenry should agree with you – you will lose on the pop culture front.
It’s not “cool” to be on the side that is being made fun of. Under those circumstances, the pop culture types will gravitate to the “cool” side doing the ridiculing.
Is that really so difficult to understand?
Make’s sense Scottie. Let’s use a better image though.
Baklava,
Just to be clear, I was responding to the “GI suicide bombers” reference that was directed at me, not bringing it into the conversation myself….I kind of find it distasteful, actually.
Make’s sense Scottie. Let’s use a better image though.
Oh, please–it’s an excellent metaphor and illustrates my point perfectly:
Attempting to fight the left through ridicule and charges of hypocrisy is like trying to fight Al Qaida by crashing hijacking Al Qaida jets and crashing them into Al Qaida’s skyscrapers.
It’s not “cool” to be on the side that is being made fun of. Under those circumstances, the pop culture types will gravitate to the “cool” side doing the ridiculing.
Is that really so difficult to understand?
Yes, because you have it backwards. Ridicule is a weapon of the powerless.
Gray,
Yes! I have seen the light!
Ridicule is a lousy weapon suitable only for powerless people.
Thank GOD President McCain won last year and President Bush wasn’t hamstrung by a democratically controlled Congress!
Gray,
I think I’m going to leave your plane crashing metaphor alone entirely.
As I noted before, the references are quite distasteful and, I feel, entirely inappropriate.
OH! – and Vice President Palin is doing a bang up job!
think I’m going to leave your plane crashing metaphor alone entirely.
Because it’s an excellent point and illustrates the futility of fighting the left with their own tactics.
As I noted before, the references are quite distasteful and, I feel, entirely inappropriate.
I didn’t mean to offend your tender sensibilities, Susie. It is because of such tender sensibilities that Conservatives can’t use ridicule as a tactic against the Left; as I said above, we have more to lose….
Thanks for helping me illustrate my point.
Gray,
I’ve already disproven your point (simple fact).
Going through an exercise of “what about this example, what about that example, well how about this example” is not going to change the dynamic. I kind of feel like I’m dealing with one of my children now as I patiently explain to them that no matter how they rephrase something, the answer remains the same (this is ridicule at your expense, btw).
You. Are. Wrong. (statement of fact).
There is no comparison, and for you to continue down that path is equivalent to the Left’s most recent tirades accusing our troops of being murderers and baby killers in Iraq all over again. (more statement of fact).
Has nothing to do with whether ridicule is a valid approach as there was no ridicule intended by the left in those circumstances, and every intention of demeaning them as human beings. (yep, more facts.)
You seem to miss that little distinction (that would be me ridiculing you. Again.).
It has nothing to do with me having “tender sensibilities” and everything to do with showing these individuals the honor and respect they deserve. (really, this really IS like explaining something to the kids! More ridicule).
Something you seem intent on missing completely (more ridicule aimed at you).
So, try again. Keep swinging and you may actually hit something one day (yep, more ridicule at your expense).
Note from a non-sponsor – the previous message was brought to you courtesy of the ridicule channel!
You. Are. Wrong.
So Rules for Radicals is a good Conservative strategy?
I’m not a radical. You’re not a radical. How are we going to pull this off?
Giving up now.
We can’t out-radical the radicals, we have too much to lose. We cannot beat them with their tactics.
Gray,
Radicals didn’t create the dynamic under which these tactics work.
They work, and have worked long before radicals embraced them, as long as humans have been walking the earth because they appeal to a basic part of human nature.
Why this is so would completely fill another thread.
At any rate, the tactics used the past few years by the Right have clearly and utterly failed.
Only a fool keeps trying the same thing expecting a different outcome (no ridicule that time, just statement of fact….).
They work, and have worked long before radicals embraced them, as long as humans have been walking the earth because they appeal to a basic part of human nature.
They are counter to human nature and only work when you are battling dumb-ass republicans, with tender sensibilities, who wish to be loved. As I said above: “you don’t have powerlessly ridicule those who would take your guns when you’ve got the guns.
But now I’m just repeating myself. The left gained power ‘cuz we ceded it to them. Their tactics work against legal, ethical, moral dumb-ass republicans. The are immune to those tactics and attempting to use their tactics against them only empowers them.
Like my example of US Suicide Bombers fighting Al Qaida.
Now, I am giving up for reals….
Gray,
The tactics you denounce are “counter to human nature”, yet “work” at the same time?
Now you’re seriously being internally inconsistent.
Swing battabattabatta swiiiiiinnnggggg!
Mod dem said, “None of my friends on the Left are upset by this poster. Big deal. I don’t think many Obama supporters actually care. Neither does Obama. Why would he?
Instead it’s those who hate Obama who think this is some kind of victory or something.
Odd.”
Yeah right. That’s why the MSM and many lefty blogs have been denouncing it as racism? There wouldn’t have been any real deal if lefties hadn’t reacted so strongly in the first place. How do you think it became news to begin with?
The only thing odd (sadly not really) is watching those on the left do rhetorical backflips to denounce this when they did the same and worse for eight years and then called it the highest form of patriotism.
Baklava Says:
“Make’s sense Scottie. Let’s use a better image though.”
There is a lot of stuff from the “cultural revolution” (re: typical socialist murder-a-thon) of a guy with short club chasing people in dunce caps around (teachers, intellectuals, various enemies of the people / ie: Chinese Kulaks). Put an Obama face on the guy with the cub, take off the dunce caps, and have him chasing them into a hospital…
Thomass,
How about cut and pasting “Nationalized Health Care” over the entrance to the reeducation…oops, health care facility in the cartoon?
Gray Says:
“Because it’s an excellent point and illustrates the futility of fighting the left with their own tactics.”
Not really. He just won’t touch it because it’s icky. I will. If you found an airliner that only had al queda members and a skyscraper with only al queda in it (re: they owned both airliner and building), I’d consider hijacking it and ramming into said building.
Scottie Says:
“How about cut and pasting “Nationalized Health Care” over the entrance to the reeducation…oops, health care facility in the cartoon?”
Yeah, and the hospital should look like a factory with a bunch of smoke stacks. Maybe some gear images in the corners (ie, your just a brick in the wall / a cog in their machine… they own your body now).
Gray Says:
“I’m not a radical. You’re not a radical. How are we going to pull this off?”
There were classical liberal radicals…. we call them the founding fathers.
Thomass,
I suggest our hostess give you an A for today’s efforts…lol.
If anyone wants to see a true “liberal” (classic sense) becoming “radicalized” and doing things that were not considered acceptable by the political establishment of his time, read a bit of Patrick Henry’s history.
Yeah, Tom Paine went off the radical deep end too.
Thomass,
If they’d only continued to reason with the British…..sigh…
Scottie Says:
August 5th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Excellent point. Certainly reasoned argument should be our first choice, but the portion of the citizenry that gets their “news” from the likes of Jon Stewart and Bill Maher are pretty much impervious to it.
There’s also the old saying “You can’t reason a person out of a belief that they weren’t reasoned into.” Many leftist believers tend to be governed more by emotion than by reason. Vague ideals like “equality” and “fairness” have a powerful emotional appeal.
Gray:
I respect your point of view, but so far all I’m seeing from you is criticism of what won’t work. What do you think we should be doing? I haven’t seen any positive suggestions, although it’s certainly possible I might have missed something.
rickl,
Check out the dystopia thread. It would seem the discussion spilled over into that topic.
But to toss my own response to your query of what we should be doing, I suggest we focus on the shifting middle population that sways one way or the other.
The hard core Leftists are too far gone to be reasoned with using anything other than a heavy blunt object.
Another thing about the image: It is not obvious that it is Obama being depicted under the whiteface.
In past graphic depictions of Bush they were immediately recognizable as Bush. An accurate likeness was sought by the artists who ridiculed Bush.
But this image could be anyone. From a strictly objective viewpoint, it could even be a white person under the makeup. If you could find someone who had never heard of Obama and asked them what race the person is under the makeup I believe they would be guessing, perhaps wrongly. But, Progressive or Conservative, you instinctively think, “Obama,” when you first lay eyes on it. Why?
My only concern is that it will draw sympathy to the false Mossiah. The Birther controversy may be helping to lift the O’s popularity or at least stop the bleeding.
My only concern is that it will draw sympathy to the false Mossiah. The Birther controversy may be helping to lift the O’s popularity or at least stop the bleeding.
I share the commentor’s concern with the birther silliness, which I view as a pitfall for the GOP and Obama opponents across the political spectrum.
But unlike the birther suspicions, which are manifested by far-fetched left-brain rationalizations, this image reaches a deeper level of consciousness that is beyond words. Conventional debate and argument depends on conceptual, word-based rationales. This image can’t be effectively argued against since it doesn’t purport to say anything in words. It’s just THERE, in front of the viewer, its dead, expressionless eyes gazing back at the viewer, saying nothing but meaning everything.
First of all I want to say great blog! I had a quick question which I’d like to ask
if you do not mind. I was interested to know how you center yourself
and clear your head prior to writing. I’ve had
a difficult time clearing my thoughts in getting my ideas out.
I truly do enjoy writing but it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes are usually lost just trying to figure out how to begin.
Any ideas or tips? Cheers!