Let’s hear it for the second stimulus
Let’s see if I’ve got this right: the first stimulus hasn’t worked. Whether that’s because it’s a fatally flawed concept or because—although it had to be passed so quickly that there was no time to debate it or read it—most of the money has not yet been spent, we really don’t know.
What’s the remedy, according to Obama adviser Laura Tyson? Let’s have another one, more or less like the other one.
It reminds me of the old outhouse joke.
What old outhouse joke, you ask? Well, you see, there’s this two-seater outhouse (and lest you think I’m making such a contrivance up, here’s a link to much more than you ever wanted to know about them). Two guys are using the facilities and, as one of them finishes and gets up, a dollar bill falls out of his pocket and drops into the opening of the seat he’s just vacated.
He swears and storms off. But a few minutes later he returns. As the other guy watches, the first guy holds a crisp new ten-dollar bill in his hand over the hole and then, to the astonishment of his companion, he releases it to fall where the dollar had disappeared just a few moments before. Then, before the observer can think of anything to say, the other man reaches into his pocket, brings out another ten-spot, and does the same thing with it.
Finally the stunned onlooker manages to find his voice. “Are you nuts? What are you doing, man?” he cries out in horror.
The answer: “Hey, you don’t think I’m gonna stick my hand in there for a measly dollar, do you?”
Incurious liberals. Man they have a mental disease…
The plural of stimulus is stimuli.
True enough, but when you have a second helping, you don’t say, “Let’s hear it for the second helpings.”
Obama’s Rasmussen Approval Index dropped to -5 today. Unless the economy turns around, and it doesn’t look like it will anytime soon, his numbers are going to keep going south, perhaps even tip over.
huxley – – thanks. that’s a stimulus or is it stimuli ting ?
If Obama had any sense he would redirect the 90% of the stimulus not yet spent to infrastructure and tax breaks for small business. He could also enact a zero percent capital gains tax on any asset bought this year.
If he wants job growth he could rush construction of new nuclear power plants and open up offshore drilling.
Obama’s ideology makes most of that impossible and puts him in a box.
He could have temporarily cut the social security (FICA) employer/employee contributions by half, the effect of which, without any administrative expense, immediately put money in workers and their employer’s pockets. Good economics always gets trumped by politics, as demonstrated by the porkulus. Don’t you just love it!
The Futurist is a great blog that doesn’t post new articles often but those that do appear are gold. Here’s the latest, Eight Ways to Supercharge the US Economy.
BTW, Pres. Carter’s mother, Lillian, bought the outhouse from the Ponder Steakhouse and had it shipped to Georgia.
I like my threadjacking to follow a consistent theme.
It might be a small world gcotharn. Some of my fav memories are eating the big cheeseburger at Ranchman’s . . and a slice of pie on a low Texas afternoon. That was more than 25 years ago, on a student’s budget, and far away from me now. And it’s not difficult for me to imagine original owner Ms Pete Jackson with an outhouse. She was no nonsense and gruff, but boy could she bake pies.
A billion dollars is enough money to spend 100k a day and not exhaust your funds in almost 30 years.
A trillion dollars allows you to spend 100,000,000 a day for nearly 30 years.
A modest proposal: Obama offers to resign if we all spend $5 K next week.
I’m in.
Or would be, if Biden and Pelosi are part of the deal. Who’s next in succession? President pro tempore of the Senate? Nope. Throw him in too.
Secretary of State? God help me, but right now Hillary sounds good. No, make that, sounds great.
Apart from her, and Robert Gates, it’s Jack Daniels time.
Well, no you don’t have it right. Did you even to attempt to understand what the economists who support a stimulus have been saying all along? Many said that the initial stimulus was not large enough. Krugman, the most prominent among them said that it was only half of what would be needed.
You create also build on the straw man when you say that “it hasn’t worked” because many economists would say it has softened the crash, but not as much as a larger stimulus would. That’s why they propose a second stimulus.
There are economists who disagree on the stimulus approach, but you should, at least, understand what you’re arguing against instead of attacking some echo chamber straw man.
Jeff: believe me, I’m well aware of the work of Krugman and others who feel the stimulus didn’t work because it wasn’t big enough. The point of this post was not to discuss at any length the details of the viewpoints on both sides of the issue.
The point of the sentence of mine that you quoted was to indicate that everyone agrees it hasn’t worked. The first group (which I happen to belong to) thinks “it’s a fatally flawed concept.” The second group—which Krugman, for example, belongs to—thinks the concept is good but not big enough, but how can they know that when almost none of it has yet been paid out?—that is, since “most of the money has not yet been spent, we really don’t know.” We’re already so heavily in debt, and they’re suggesting the proverbial “throwing good money after bad”—when in this case the first bunch of money hasn’t even been giving a fair test yet (that was the point of the outhouse joke).
I suppose the fact that I was talking about both of those opposing groups would have been clearer if I’d spelled it out that way, but I thought it was obvious that’s what I was talking about. Perhaps not.
JohnC,
My son apparently is following in your footsteps at UNT – which is how I have made it up to eat at Ranchman’s a few times. They still have excellent food, and extravagant and delicious pie.
For better or worse, depending on who you talk to, our library got some 100,000+ in stimulus money and were using it to maintain 24 hour hours of operation and technology upgrades.
Nyo,
i would guess that they heard they were going to get cash from the stimulus in the future, then in anticipation did that.
i have seen it dozens of times, its what happens with socialism. we react as if the new condition that was created by state rules is like a real principal of operation, and so we adapt to it to take advantage. but in truth the state is capricuious, it gets you to spend your money that you would save for college, then when its time to pay for your college, the capricous rules change.
same thing with the organizations who are promised cash, they count it as if its a hatched and ready chicken. later when there are no eggs, they are in deeper crisis than before. and voila, the excuse to get more stimulus as the people who spent it are not gettnig what they spent already.
only a politican can spend one dollar three ways and not be arrested or thrown out for delusional accounting concepts.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-08-redblue_N.htm
Billions in aid go to areas that backed Obama in ’08
Billions of dollars in federal aid delivered directly to the local level to help revive the economy have gone overwhelmingly to places that supported President Obama in last year’s presidential election.
That aid – about $17 billion – is the first piece of the administration’s massive stimulus package that can be tracked locally. Much of it has followed a well-worn path to places that regularly collect a bigger share of federal grants and contracts, guided by formulas that have been in place for decades and leave little room for manipulation.
This is how chavez did it, how that Austrian guy did it, and others.
The message is clear, side with obama and he will crush your opponents and give you the money!!!!
After about 2 years of that his power will be sealed as all these people and others (as in Germany)
Jump on a bandwagon that makes them more winners not for merit but for backing the guy that will decide who lives and dies in a new state run society.
Once this happens then everyone with end justifies means thinking will just sign on.
They do not have the moral will to stand up and be struck down, so they sit down and get paid.
They did this with the GM bailouts, they are doing this all over.
The message is VERY clear, if you side with me, I will steal the money from those against me and give that to you. I will steal huge sums from the people and pay you off so that you can donate some of it back to me.
So pretty soon, like that book excerpt I sent you from the guy who lived through the german change, there will be no way to oppose the sweeping force of so many people jumping on the bandwagon to outcompete everyone else to get more. except now they are not competing by making products, they are competing in who can give the leader the most power and so get the most favor.
too bad few took the time to read that stuff (if they did they would have commented).
Hey, Jeff, take a look at this graph of unemployment and come back and tell us how well it is working out, ok?
As Artfldgr pointed out, the stimulus is going to counties that supported Obama, so he is paying off his supporters. Problem is they aren’t stimulating the economy given they weren’t producers in the first place. Now they need a second stimulus. Perhaps the first stimulus wasn’t enough or perhaps Obama’s support is faltering and they need more cash to keep the “faithful” on their side.
So our options are when you’re digging a hole and the rain starts filling it up, you dig faster in the hopes the water won’t overtop your head or when you’re paying off supporters, you always need more cash to keep them on your side.
President McCain’s wars against Iran, China, Venezuela, Russia and North Korea would have stimulated the economy, balanced the budget and paid for themselves by now. You betcha, because that’s what wars do!
Nice straw man, Hockey Mom. It’s what you do best.
Hey, Hokey Mom from Somewhere, how’s The One’s Great Overland Invasion of Pok-ee-stahn coming?
Since no plural was used by anyone before my “stimuli” comment, it was not intended as a correction. I should have opted for stimulie rather than stimuli 😉
actually not hockey mom…
thats a false position… a variation of the broken window fallacy so common among economic illiterates.
look on your phone bill… you will find that the tax to pay for one of the early american wars (spanish american), is still being paid..
so we are still paying for that one too…
wars SEEM to do waht you say…
but let me know who the wealthiest self made men are, and i will show you that most made their money realted to manufacturing.
bill gates is a manufacturer…
MOST created their huge vibrant wealth during periods of internal piece.
the ones that make money off of wars are the huge corporatist fascist companies (like IBM) who have matured and cant make revenue easily within their domain. so they look for someplace else.
look at it this way hockey mom..
the capitslists create the wealth and material, that the polticians take control of and have excursions with, which bankrupts the nation (if they lose), and so starts the cycle all over again.
yes witout capitalism you wouldnt have bank robbery… and without larger organisms you dont have virus…
in both cases you dont destroy the bank or the body as a way to control bank robbery or desease.
I say stop now, while the interest on the $11,000,000,000,000 debt is only $26 billion, per month.
Take the unspent money from the first so-called stimulus and give it back to the tax payers. Then cut the corporate tax rate and do everything to help small business.
Ya-hoo, stimulus for dummies.