Is Obama appeasing the mullahs of Iran? — 17 Comments
A little appeasement is OK. I actually thought that BHO’s address was diplomatically acceptable.
The big question is where will the appeasement stop if there is no positive reaction from the regime/mullahs in Iran. So far the reaction has been disappointing, but not out of character with expectations. One sided “bargaining” is a sure way to lose any negotiation. The Persians have proven themselves to be masters at the game.
Yes, he is.
Why would we be surprised by the ability of a people that invented chess to play a good game. Before the election a (supposedly) conservative friend (he calls himself a moderate conservative) told me that he and a lot of people he knew (who also apparently considered themselves moderate conservatives) were going to vote for Obama. Oddly enough he couldn’t give me any substantive reasons other than anti-Bush ones and when faced with arguments from me all he could say was, “well at least now people are full of hope”. And my answer to him was “Well if hope is not backed up with the will to act it might make you feel good for a while but it won’t get anything done.”
That is my feeling about Obama’s overtures to Iran. He can try to cajole but if Iran is not convinced that he has the will to act then the best he can hope for is what we already have (back to chess) – a stalemate.
Which by the way isn’t really a stalemate because they will continue to develop their nuclear program and Russia will give them all the help they can afford.
I think the verb “appease” presumes or includes in the definition that it works.
O may be trying, but it won’t work. Therefore, he is not “appeasing”, he is “trying to appease”.
But attempting appeasement generally fails because it tells the other party you can be rolled.
So they keep rolling you.
Then you have a world war or something.
All works out in the end, minus ten or twenty million people. Or fifty million or something.
We should foment revolution over there.
They’re ripe for it…
“They’re ripe for it….”
True, camojack, but the strategic advantage accomplished by the successful Iraq expedition is now being forfeited in favor of capitulation, and similar to the Vichy French, crass complicity with the enemy and it’s surrogates (Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Assad regime). Too bad, it should be quite obvious now, except to those in pathetic emotional denial, that Obama himself is, and always was, from his early childhood thru his now, also obvious, lingering teleprompter dependent adolescence, simply a moslem communist who has, post election, stopped posing as a Christian Democrat, and is now openly embracing America’s enemies.
Yes. Don’t forget about the 900 million Obama is sending to Palestine to rebuild Gaza.
Gotta fill the bomb craters in the roads to make it easier to bring in the next batch of rockets.
In Germany, Obama is getting praise from both Merkel and her political rival, Foreign Minister Steinmeier. No one here will risk votes from the kumbaya populace in an election year, and every politician must support any steps to avoid tougher sanctions that would hurt German exports. Furthermore, Merkel plans to talk to Obama at the G20 about saving Opel. Expect no criticism of The One from this neck of the woods.
Fox this a.m. has an article up that the Ayatollah ain’t buying what BHO is selling. Do ya think that Obama will realize that these people really hate us? Nah..
How do you treat with a regime that has:
1. Seized U.S. soil (our embassy), which is an act of war.
2. Taken U.S. citizens hostage and held them for 444 days, subjecting some of them to interrogation of a frightening kind.
3. Sponsored groups and individuals in Beruit who killed hundreds of our servicemen.
4. Captured, tortured, and killed our CIA, embassy, and military men in Lebanon.
5. Sponsored the bombing of our military barracks inside of Saudi Arabia.
6. Sponsored and directed other acts of terrorism against U.S. interests and individuals around the world.
7. Trained and armed groups and also sent in Al Qods Revolutionary Guards to Iraq to kill our servicemen there.
8. Acts of intimidation, murder, and war against our allies and friends all around the world.
You give them the mailed fist, not blow them kisses and inducements of “respect.”
I realize that at times I am a blunt person, but only so because reality dictates it. What has the U.S. State Department and the diplomatic elites achieved with respect to this odious regime?
Obonga’s overtures to the Mullahs can only be described as odious.
Khamenei said “should you change, we shall change also”.
The “change” he looks for is conversion to Islam or tribute.
Tabari: “Peace to whoever follows the right guidance! To proceed; Submit yourself, and you shall be safe.'”
There has never been peace with Islam. Only submission, or death.
The problem isn’t, and never has been, talking TO Iran.
But LISTENING to Iran is a problem.
Talking WITH Iran is a problem.
Stopping all the other things you should be doing TO Iran while you talk TO Iran is a problem.
We should talk TO Iran. Our message should be very simple, very plain, and crystal clear: “You have chosen to make us an enemy. Now we take you seriously. Now you find out what that means.” And we should match–and overmatch–our words with deeds.
We cannot say with absolute certainty that nothing will deter Iran. We can say with moral certainty that no censure, no ordinary sanction, will do so. We can say with good certainty that if they see that a course of action will fail them, they will not try it, but look for another course. Our actions thus far have relied on this last good certainty. But it is deterring single courses of action, not lasting attempts. We have not yet accepted the moral certainty that Iran will not modify its goals nor temper them means she is willing to employ when she finds things they will work. And we cannot rely on finding some one thing that will actually deter her.
This means that we must relentlessly act to restrain, contain, cripple, and reduce her, and ultimately to bring about the collapse of her government. Any other policy is lunacy. It is prudent to avoid outraging either international sympathy or our own consciences WHEN WE CAN AVOID DOING SO. But our own destruction is too high a price.
Phillip Bobbit is right when he states that the wars of the coming consitutional order will be preclusive. (In a clever and accurate mnemonic, he declares that the wars of the previous orders have been, in order, perquisitive, acquisitive, requisitive, exclusive, and inclusive. Read Terror and Consent.)
Lee has it exactly, succinctly. It’s really the core of the issue, which neither Dhimmi Carter nor Obonga Booga seem to grasp.
And what do Dhimmi Carter and Obonga Booga have in common? Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, that’s what they have in common. Obonga Booga took courses from Brzezinski at Columbia, and now that man is an adviser along with with Samantha Power.
But these idiots haven’t figured out what Khamenei meant. They don’t know what’s expected of us. They sure aren’t going to convert or pay the jizya. They don’t even know what jizya is, for starters.
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A little appeasement is OK. I actually thought that BHO’s address was diplomatically acceptable.
The big question is where will the appeasement stop if there is no positive reaction from the regime/mullahs in Iran. So far the reaction has been disappointing, but not out of character with expectations. One sided “bargaining” is a sure way to lose any negotiation. The Persians have proven themselves to be masters at the game.
Yes, he is.
Why would we be surprised by the ability of a people that invented chess to play a good game. Before the election a (supposedly) conservative friend (he calls himself a moderate conservative) told me that he and a lot of people he knew (who also apparently considered themselves moderate conservatives) were going to vote for Obama. Oddly enough he couldn’t give me any substantive reasons other than anti-Bush ones and when faced with arguments from me all he could say was, “well at least now people are full of hope”. And my answer to him was “Well if hope is not backed up with the will to act it might make you feel good for a while but it won’t get anything done.”
That is my feeling about Obama’s overtures to Iran. He can try to cajole but if Iran is not convinced that he has the will to act then the best he can hope for is what we already have (back to chess) – a stalemate.
Which by the way isn’t really a stalemate because they will continue to develop their nuclear program and Russia will give them all the help they can afford.
Shah Mat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate
Stupid and Arrogant is no way to play chess….
Give a Mouse a Cookie…..
br549
Give a Mouse a Cookie….
Bingo !
I think the verb “appease” presumes or includes in the definition that it works.
O may be trying, but it won’t work. Therefore, he is not “appeasing”, he is “trying to appease”.
But attempting appeasement generally fails because it tells the other party you can be rolled.
So they keep rolling you.
Then you have a world war or something.
All works out in the end, minus ten or twenty million people. Or fifty million or something.
We should foment revolution over there.
They’re ripe for it…
“They’re ripe for it….”
True, camojack, but the strategic advantage accomplished by the successful Iraq expedition is now being forfeited in favor of capitulation, and similar to the Vichy French, crass complicity with the enemy and it’s surrogates (Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Assad regime). Too bad, it should be quite obvious now, except to those in pathetic emotional denial, that Obama himself is, and always was, from his early childhood thru his now, also obvious, lingering teleprompter dependent adolescence, simply a moslem communist who has, post election, stopped posing as a Christian Democrat, and is now openly embracing America’s enemies.
Yes. Don’t forget about the 900 million Obama is sending to Palestine to rebuild Gaza.
Gotta fill the bomb craters in the roads to make it easier to bring in the next batch of rockets.
In Germany, Obama is getting praise from both Merkel and her political rival, Foreign Minister Steinmeier. No one here will risk votes from the kumbaya populace in an election year, and every politician must support any steps to avoid tougher sanctions that would hurt German exports. Furthermore, Merkel plans to talk to Obama at the G20 about saving Opel. Expect no criticism of The One from this neck of the woods.
Fox this a.m. has an article up that the Ayatollah ain’t buying what BHO is selling. Do ya think that Obama will realize that these people really hate us? Nah..
How do you treat with a regime that has:
1. Seized U.S. soil (our embassy), which is an act of war.
2. Taken U.S. citizens hostage and held them for 444 days, subjecting some of them to interrogation of a frightening kind.
3. Sponsored groups and individuals in Beruit who killed hundreds of our servicemen.
4. Captured, tortured, and killed our CIA, embassy, and military men in Lebanon.
5. Sponsored the bombing of our military barracks inside of Saudi Arabia.
6. Sponsored and directed other acts of terrorism against U.S. interests and individuals around the world.
7. Trained and armed groups and also sent in Al Qods Revolutionary Guards to Iraq to kill our servicemen there.
8. Acts of intimidation, murder, and war against our allies and friends all around the world.
You give them the mailed fist, not blow them kisses and inducements of “respect.”
I realize that at times I am a blunt person, but only so because reality dictates it. What has the U.S. State Department and the diplomatic elites achieved with respect to this odious regime?
Obonga’s overtures to the Mullahs can only be described as odious.
Khamenei said “should you change, we shall change also”.
The “change” he looks for is conversion to Islam or tribute.
Tabari: “Peace to whoever follows the right guidance! To proceed; Submit yourself, and you shall be safe.'”
There has never been peace with Islam. Only submission, or death.
The problem isn’t, and never has been, talking TO Iran.
But LISTENING to Iran is a problem.
Talking WITH Iran is a problem.
Stopping all the other things you should be doing TO Iran while you talk TO Iran is a problem.
We should talk TO Iran. Our message should be very simple, very plain, and crystal clear: “You have chosen to make us an enemy. Now we take you seriously. Now you find out what that means.” And we should match–and overmatch–our words with deeds.
We cannot say with absolute certainty that nothing will deter Iran. We can say with moral certainty that no censure, no ordinary sanction, will do so. We can say with good certainty that if they see that a course of action will fail them, they will not try it, but look for another course. Our actions thus far have relied on this last good certainty. But it is deterring single courses of action, not lasting attempts. We have not yet accepted the moral certainty that Iran will not modify its goals nor temper them means she is willing to employ when she finds things they will work. And we cannot rely on finding some one thing that will actually deter her.
This means that we must relentlessly act to restrain, contain, cripple, and reduce her, and ultimately to bring about the collapse of her government. Any other policy is lunacy. It is prudent to avoid outraging either international sympathy or our own consciences WHEN WE CAN AVOID DOING SO. But our own destruction is too high a price.
Phillip Bobbit is right when he states that the wars of the coming consitutional order will be preclusive. (In a clever and accurate mnemonic, he declares that the wars of the previous orders have been, in order, perquisitive, acquisitive, requisitive, exclusive, and inclusive. Read Terror and Consent.)
Lee has it exactly, succinctly. It’s really the core of the issue, which neither Dhimmi Carter nor Obonga Booga seem to grasp.
And what do Dhimmi Carter and Obonga Booga have in common? Former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, that’s what they have in common. Obonga Booga took courses from Brzezinski at Columbia, and now that man is an adviser along with with Samantha Power.
But these idiots haven’t figured out what Khamenei meant. They don’t know what’s expected of us. They sure aren’t going to convert or pay the jizya. They don’t even know what jizya is, for starters.