That’s no surprise with Obama acting more aggressive towards Pakistan than McCain. It’s kind of scary actually… Obama shouldn’t feel that he needs to make up for being a “wuss” in Iraq with being a crazy warmonger in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but it kind of seems like he does.
From the article, “…Barack Obama may be winning in the U.S. and most global popularity polls, but he’s a loser in Pakistan.”
Obama said he’d go into Pakistan to root out the Taliban and other Jihadist allies, I think that warrants are verifiable that Pakistan has been waging an expansionist or Imperialist war into Afghanistan, but back on Obama I think his strategy (or bravado? Seriously, his bravado …there have been instance where he said one thing here and another somewhere else) …I think this strategy on going into Pakistan is one of his few redeeming qualities as far as I’m concerned — crush, mercilessly crush the radical militant Islamist so that there will be no doubt that the world will not tolerate their interruptions or governments that harbor them. McCain criticized Obama for this, though I may be rereading more into to it than Obama did, which can be turned to Obama’s propensity for vagueness, and also McCain selected a VP that is almost completely disinterested in foreign affairs or much of anything intellectual. This is a sore spot — and why I sometimes totter towards Obama.
Given the Pakistani’s government’s propensity to play on both sides of the fence, and the ISI’s role in creating and nurturing the Taliban, I am not sure what the right thing is to do.
I am reading contradictory reports. Bill Roggio’s Long War /Fourth Rail blog reports that for the umpteenth time the Pakistani government has made a truce with the Taliban. Which will be just as unsuccessful as the previous ones. From Strategy Page I read that the Pakistani government is finally taking them on.
My guess is that Pakistan will fall, and we will end up either quarantining Pakistan ( many madrassa “students” come from the UK to get trained in jihad) or giving India the green light.
OTOH, I have also read that many Indians are willing to let Pakistan collapse of its own accord.
Not a simple situation. I vote for quarantine, as I see the Pakistani government as incompetent and untrustworthy.
Given the mess that Pakistan is, ultimately anything a Presidential candidate says is wrong – or right. Obama’s saying what he said may help to focus the attention of the Pakistani government: even a dove says you gotta do something or get off the pot.
While I will not be voting for Obama, I would give him a pass on this.
The latest Gallup info from around the world shows favor of Obama over McCain for U.S. President. Obviously, other nations feel Obama would be favorable to their country more so than McCain. It is clear. McCain is the right choice.
Nyo – you are mistaken about Palin. Hopefully, you will get the opportunity to find that out, and on your own. I expect NO help from the democrat side of congress should the McCain – Palin ticket win the day. Worse than ever.
If Obama does win, the house and the senate need fear 2010. Hmmmm….even if he doesn’t win.
Peter, good thinking! The fact that you seek out information with different viewpoints has always been a good sign despite some of your, ahh, less than mature comments.
More important, tho’ is that you have observed something in Barack Obama The Politician. It may be something he has in common with many politicians. But YOUR job and MY job — all of us legal voters in this election — IS to look beyond the catch-y slogans, the aura of “hip-ness” the blind adoration of huge crowds, and figure out if all we see “adds up.” It does not at all, which is much of what we have been discussing on this sight. You are really on to something! If only you can figure it out, as well as pass the word on to a few others who have been unqualified beievers, who will do the same in turn, before it’s time to pull those levers!
(Just so you know Peter, Obama has more money than has ever in the history of politics been spent, used to hiring real Pros who’s mission #1 is to obfuscate the issues, to devise catchy tunes, videos, plant articles and stories targeted to specific demographics (you newly empowered voters being just one of many). Somewhere someone slipped up — because you actually caught something that wasn’t quite in tune with the rest of the music.
It’s people like you who have the the most opportunity to get others like yourself to listen — and maybe question just a little more.
Nyo, if you take that seriously I don’t know what to say, liberals are always for the war that we aren’t in, this is a simple acting job to make him look hawkish, I don’t believe it for a second.
Mccain’s point was that as a national leader you cant say it out loud, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t actually do much worse, you just cant telegraph it or you lose any support from the people or government as the article demonstrates, really shows immaturity on the Os part, wasn’t he all about diplomacy? Seems he already screwed that up here. With a country that already has Nukes. Shape of things to come?
the zero will say anything to get the job!!! end of story.
Thanks for believing in me. As I’ve said previously, I have never been an Obamamaniac and I am quite disturbed by many of his failings. That’s why, if I were but eight months older, I would be casting my first ballot ever for…
Ralph Nader. 🙂
Oh please, nyomythus, Obama is not going to go into Pakistan and crush anything. He’s all talk. He talks now about winning in Afghanistan because he thinks it’ll get him elected.
His real goal is to socialize the U.S. and hand our sovereignty over to international institutions.
this is a simple acting job to make him look hawkish, I don’t believe it for a second.
Mccain’s point was that as a national leader you cant say it out loud
I said this about Obama in my ‘bravado’ clause, and I have little doubt that McCain will be hawkish when and where necessary, it’s a 50/50 juggling act, on this very serious matter. I will continue you listen and adjust my opinion to the day I cast my vote; it’s just one little vote, from one little person, and there is no one in the world I influence, so, just wanted to clarify that.
Nyo actually believes Obama would try to keep his promises? Interesting.
I find it somewhat interesting that Obama is willing to violate the sovereign territory Pakistan to the end of getting bin Laden. Will “getting” bin laden end the Islamic Jihad against the west? It pains me to think that a great many in the US may think that is so. Just another example of worrying about how the icing looks when the cake is inedible – it may taste good until you actually eat it.
dane is onto something — something pretty damn serious. If Obama truly believes, as he often plays to audiences, that elimination of bin Laden will solve the Islamic Jihadist problem, then he’s more naive (and scarier) than even I have appraised him — and truth be told, I don’t give him a whole lot of credit to start. If Obama believes the problem is still the one man who gave birth to the Extremist Jihadist movement, we are in “deep doo-doo.” Further, i bif “Mr.-We-Need-To-Gain-the-Respect-of-the-World” tells Americans that he will go anywhere any time to get
“I think he’s just trying to make the right noises,” said Tariq Ali, a student at the University of the Punjab.”
If the MSM is indeed successful, it will be four years and he’ll be out; When everybody finds out that he’s just a typical two bit left-wing bait and switch artist who will say and do anything to get elected, including compromise with the true institutions that are the long-standing foundation of the American “establishment”. He will end up betraying practically everybody one way or another (as he has already begun with his recent treatment of Wright and others) because he has no real substance now, just riding the politics of envy and race baiting to get that swing vote for election. Too bad, the African-American community deserves and has better, ie. the qualities of an impeccably astute Michael Steele, a venerable Dr. Sowell, or the up and coming authentic patriot Allen West. Instead a majority of the Afro-American community are voting for him for no other reason then his color, and the liberal-left for their smug scapegoating revenge/vendetta, against Bush and big and private business. In the end the hypocrites will have to admit they mostly beat the drums of war for a decade before they authorized the Iraq war in congress, that Bush has only failed to veto “their” spending, and everyone knows the true evolution of the Fannie/Freddie financial balloon mortgage crisis, deny it or not. With all their diatribe about the Iraq war I have to laugh (cry) when Obama casually blathers about focussing on (the black-hole of) Afghanistan and “Pahkistan”, and getting Osama. Obama wants to think he’s another JFK and LBJ rolled up in a light-brown multicultural package. Beware, Afghanistan and Pakistan will make Iraq look like the proverbial cakewalk. But more likely, look for four years of a cross between Bubba and Carter, before the middle-class wakes up and figures out who really butters their bread… Let’s just hope that if and when he’s “tested” (ala Biden’s soapbox b.s.), that the toll of innocents and innocence lost is not too heavy…
oops!
was saying that if folks believe Obama’s big boasts on campaign trail, that he will go in anywhere –whether country be friend or for) to get bin Laden (and further, believe that will solve the Extremist Jihadist problem) they’ll believe anything. Regrettably, too many people it seems ARE believing ANYthing and EVERYTHING — just not the significant Truths.
I have to admit to being somewhat demoralized. When people believe that Obama didn’t know who Ayres was (just the kids went to school together), never heard Rev. Wright excoriating the U.S. govt. and the White Oppressors, ignore facts such as his close ties to Franklin Raines and others at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and do not see the facts — as in more payoffs than ANY other person in Congress except Chris Dodd, refuse to acknowledge Obama’s close ties to A.C.O.R.N…….the list goes on……and on.
I have always given the American people more credit, but any ONE of these things should have been enough to disqualify the man. With the economic problems, with the political problems, with the internal disagreement — I cannot understand how so many people put all their eggs in the basket of someone who has zero history of accomplishment, zero executive management experience, so many, many ties to shady, if not criminal persons………..
We all are going to have to reap that which the majority of the fools among us sow.
(Hope is not COMPLETELY lost….but it is dimming….)
I’m saying Obama has etched towards a hawkish stance on the War on Terror, when McCain seems to be shrinking from it, Obama has demonstrated very little other than words, which may be point-scoring for the campaign — I mean those that are going to vote for Obama since the beginning probably wouldn’t care if he said he was going to launch a nuclear warhead, yet he at least praises the Surge to the troops at Fort Hood. This indicates that Obama has a sense of perspective that can face new or difference challenges. This is an excellent quality, but what he’s done isn’t much of a demonstration of this quality — is it only campaign bravado? This reminds me that the world really doesn’t know Obama. If it’s a quality that Obama processes he needs to, or should have, demonstrated it more often. Yet, interesting it can be argued that McCain has actually done something to demonstrate his disinterest in foreign affair; or was it a case of superficial appeal counters another, race verses gender cancels the effect of the other? It’s something to take note of, ugh. I’m think about this too much, I know, I know.
csimon wrote:
“I cannot understand how so many people put all their eggs in the basket of someone who has zero history of accomplishment, zero executive management experience, so many, many ties to shady, if not criminal persons………..”
I’ve seen this coming for quite awhile; especially teaching at the college level for 27 years. The 30-somethings of today were a unique set of students 10 years ago: very self-absorbed and expecting the world to be handed to them rather than any work done by them. Combine them with the current college crowd, who I much more respect for, but nonetheless have the usual youthful idealism. Then add in the never-grew-up Baby Boomers of my generation who keep hoping to relive the ’60’s and you creep toward the 50% of the population who are blinded by the light of His Emminence.
nyomythus: When Obama chose Biden as his running mate, he chose a man with “experience” in foreign affairs to back up his own lack. Unfortunately, Biden’s experience is in making the wrong decision virtually every time for his entire lengthy Senate tenure. And his utterances in the VP debate back up that lack of knowledge and judgment.
On the other hand, McCain (who has a great deal of experience in foreign affairs and does not need backup from his running mate) chose a VP for not just her gender but for her reformer qualities, her ability to appeal to the base (without which he had no chance of winning), and her ability to make good managerial judgments. He figured she would have enough time to learn about foreign affairs and has the character and values to be able to make decisions that would be the right ones. Whether or not you agree with his assessment of her, there is no doubt in my mind that he believed that about Palin.
“If Obama believes the problem is still the one man who gave birth to the Extremist Jihadist movement, we are in “deep doo-doo.”
Obama attended a school in Indonesia with Islam lessons each day, and dutifully learned them. There is no way he does not know what Jihad is about. He is either dissembling for election advantage (likely) or deliberately hiding the truth (possible – even Bush is doing this). Or both.
I can see that angle too.
Neo, I’m doing two things by sounding off on chats and blogs, talking to my inner conscious as honestly as I can about making an honest decision. Two, and to a lesser degree, preparing my faux-allegiance when I’m questioned about who I voted for, natural-selection is alive and well everywhere you turn,
“Oh, your attitude has been noticed, oh yes! I has been noticed!”
Wish I had that clip from “Dr. Zhivago”
Leave a Reply
HTML tags allowed in your
comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>
That’s no surprise with Obama acting more aggressive towards Pakistan than McCain. It’s kind of scary actually… Obama shouldn’t feel that he needs to make up for being a “wuss” in Iraq with being a crazy warmonger in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but it kind of seems like he does.
From the article, “…Barack Obama may be winning in the U.S. and most global popularity polls, but he’s a loser in Pakistan.”
Obama said he’d go into Pakistan to root out the Taliban and other Jihadist allies, I think that warrants are verifiable that Pakistan has been waging an expansionist or Imperialist war into Afghanistan, but back on Obama I think his strategy (or bravado? Seriously, his bravado …there have been instance where he said one thing here and another somewhere else) …I think this strategy on going into Pakistan is one of his few redeeming qualities as far as I’m concerned — crush, mercilessly crush the radical militant Islamist so that there will be no doubt that the world will not tolerate their interruptions or governments that harbor them. McCain criticized Obama for this, though I may be rereading more into to it than Obama did, which can be turned to Obama’s propensity for vagueness, and also McCain selected a VP that is almost completely disinterested in foreign affairs or much of anything intellectual. This is a sore spot — and why I sometimes totter towards Obama.
Given the Pakistani’s government’s propensity to play on both sides of the fence, and the ISI’s role in creating and nurturing the Taliban, I am not sure what the right thing is to do.
I am reading contradictory reports. Bill Roggio’s Long War /Fourth Rail blog reports that for the umpteenth time the Pakistani government has made a truce with the Taliban. Which will be just as unsuccessful as the previous ones. From Strategy Page I read that the Pakistani government is finally taking them on.
My guess is that Pakistan will fall, and we will end up either quarantining Pakistan ( many madrassa “students” come from the UK to get trained in jihad) or giving India the green light.
OTOH, I have also read that many Indians are willing to let Pakistan collapse of its own accord.
Not a simple situation. I vote for quarantine, as I see the Pakistani government as incompetent and untrustworthy.
Given the mess that Pakistan is, ultimately anything a Presidential candidate says is wrong – or right. Obama’s saying what he said may help to focus the attention of the Pakistani government: even a dove says you gotta do something or get off the pot.
While I will not be voting for Obama, I would give him a pass on this.
The latest Gallup info from around the world shows favor of Obama over McCain for U.S. President. Obviously, other nations feel Obama would be favorable to their country more so than McCain. It is clear. McCain is the right choice.
Nyo – you are mistaken about Palin. Hopefully, you will get the opportunity to find that out, and on your own. I expect NO help from the democrat side of congress should the McCain – Palin ticket win the day. Worse than ever.
If Obama does win, the house and the senate need fear 2010. Hmmmm….even if he doesn’t win.
Peter, good thinking! The fact that you seek out information with different viewpoints has always been a good sign despite some of your, ahh, less than mature comments.
More important, tho’ is that you have observed something in Barack Obama The Politician. It may be something he has in common with many politicians. But YOUR job and MY job — all of us legal voters in this election — IS to look beyond the catch-y slogans, the aura of “hip-ness” the blind adoration of huge crowds, and figure out if all we see “adds up.” It does not at all, which is much of what we have been discussing on this sight. You are really on to something! If only you can figure it out, as well as pass the word on to a few others who have been unqualified beievers, who will do the same in turn, before it’s time to pull those levers!
(Just so you know Peter, Obama has more money than has ever in the history of politics been spent, used to hiring real Pros who’s mission #1 is to obfuscate the issues, to devise catchy tunes, videos, plant articles and stories targeted to specific demographics (you newly empowered voters being just one of many). Somewhere someone slipped up — because you actually caught something that wasn’t quite in tune with the rest of the music.
It’s people like you who have the the most opportunity to get others like yourself to listen — and maybe question just a little more.
Nyo, if you take that seriously I don’t know what to say, liberals are always for the war that we aren’t in, this is a simple acting job to make him look hawkish, I don’t believe it for a second.
Mccain’s point was that as a national leader you cant say it out loud, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t actually do much worse, you just cant telegraph it or you lose any support from the people or government as the article demonstrates, really shows immaturity on the Os part, wasn’t he all about diplomacy? Seems he already screwed that up here. With a country that already has Nukes. Shape of things to come?
the zero will say anything to get the job!!! end of story.
Thanks for believing in me. As I’ve said previously, I have never been an Obamamaniac and I am quite disturbed by many of his failings. That’s why, if I were but eight months older, I would be casting my first ballot ever for…
Ralph Nader. 🙂
Oh please, nyomythus, Obama is not going to go into Pakistan and crush anything. He’s all talk. He talks now about winning in Afghanistan because he thinks it’ll get him elected.
His real goal is to socialize the U.S. and hand our sovereignty over to international institutions.
this is a simple acting job to make him look hawkish, I don’t believe it for a second.
Mccain’s point was that as a national leader you cant say it out loud
I said this about Obama in my ‘bravado’ clause, and I have little doubt that McCain will be hawkish when and where necessary, it’s a 50/50 juggling act, on this very serious matter. I will continue you listen and adjust my opinion to the day I cast my vote; it’s just one little vote, from one little person, and there is no one in the world I influence, so, just wanted to clarify that.
Nyo actually believes Obama would try to keep his promises? Interesting.
I find it somewhat interesting that Obama is willing to violate the sovereign territory Pakistan to the end of getting bin Laden. Will “getting” bin laden end the Islamic Jihad against the west? It pains me to think that a great many in the US may think that is so. Just another example of worrying about how the icing looks when the cake is inedible – it may taste good until you actually eat it.
dane is onto something — something pretty damn serious. If Obama truly believes, as he often plays to audiences, that elimination of bin Laden will solve the Islamic Jihadist problem, then he’s more naive (and scarier) than even I have appraised him — and truth be told, I don’t give him a whole lot of credit to start. If Obama believes the problem is still the one man who gave birth to the Extremist Jihadist movement, we are in “deep doo-doo.” Further, i bif “Mr.-We-Need-To-Gain-the-Respect-of-the-World” tells Americans that he will go anywhere any time to get
“I think he’s just trying to make the right noises,” said Tariq Ali, a student at the University of the Punjab.”
If the MSM is indeed successful, it will be four years and he’ll be out; When everybody finds out that he’s just a typical two bit left-wing bait and switch artist who will say and do anything to get elected, including compromise with the true institutions that are the long-standing foundation of the American “establishment”. He will end up betraying practically everybody one way or another (as he has already begun with his recent treatment of Wright and others) because he has no real substance now, just riding the politics of envy and race baiting to get that swing vote for election. Too bad, the African-American community deserves and has better, ie. the qualities of an impeccably astute Michael Steele, a venerable Dr. Sowell, or the up and coming authentic patriot Allen West. Instead a majority of the Afro-American community are voting for him for no other reason then his color, and the liberal-left for their smug scapegoating revenge/vendetta, against Bush and big and private business. In the end the hypocrites will have to admit they mostly beat the drums of war for a decade before they authorized the Iraq war in congress, that Bush has only failed to veto “their” spending, and everyone knows the true evolution of the Fannie/Freddie financial balloon mortgage crisis, deny it or not. With all their diatribe about the Iraq war I have to laugh (cry) when Obama casually blathers about focussing on (the black-hole of) Afghanistan and “Pahkistan”, and getting Osama. Obama wants to think he’s another JFK and LBJ rolled up in a light-brown multicultural package. Beware, Afghanistan and Pakistan will make Iraq look like the proverbial cakewalk. But more likely, look for four years of a cross between Bubba and Carter, before the middle-class wakes up and figures out who really butters their bread… Let’s just hope that if and when he’s “tested” (ala Biden’s soapbox b.s.), that the toll of innocents and innocence lost is not too heavy…
oops!
was saying that if folks believe Obama’s big boasts on campaign trail, that he will go in anywhere –whether country be friend or for) to get bin Laden (and further, believe that will solve the Extremist Jihadist problem) they’ll believe anything. Regrettably, too many people it seems ARE believing ANYthing and EVERYTHING — just not the significant Truths.
I have to admit to being somewhat demoralized. When people believe that Obama didn’t know who Ayres was (just the kids went to school together), never heard Rev. Wright excoriating the U.S. govt. and the White Oppressors, ignore facts such as his close ties to Franklin Raines and others at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and do not see the facts — as in more payoffs than ANY other person in Congress except Chris Dodd, refuse to acknowledge Obama’s close ties to A.C.O.R.N…….the list goes on……and on.
I have always given the American people more credit, but any ONE of these things should have been enough to disqualify the man. With the economic problems, with the political problems, with the internal disagreement — I cannot understand how so many people put all their eggs in the basket of someone who has zero history of accomplishment, zero executive management experience, so many, many ties to shady, if not criminal persons………..
We all are going to have to reap that which the majority of the fools among us sow.
(Hope is not COMPLETELY lost….but it is dimming….)
I’m saying Obama has etched towards a hawkish stance on the War on Terror, when McCain seems to be shrinking from it, Obama has demonstrated very little other than words, which may be point-scoring for the campaign — I mean those that are going to vote for Obama since the beginning probably wouldn’t care if he said he was going to launch a nuclear warhead, yet he at least praises the Surge to the troops at Fort Hood. This indicates that Obama has a sense of perspective that can face new or difference challenges. This is an excellent quality, but what he’s done isn’t much of a demonstration of this quality — is it only campaign bravado? This reminds me that the world really doesn’t know Obama. If it’s a quality that Obama processes he needs to, or should have, demonstrated it more often. Yet, interesting it can be argued that McCain has actually done something to demonstrate his disinterest in foreign affair; or was it a case of superficial appeal counters another, race verses gender cancels the effect of the other? It’s something to take note of, ugh. I’m think about this too much, I know, I know.
csimon wrote:
“I cannot understand how so many people put all their eggs in the basket of someone who has zero history of accomplishment, zero executive management experience, so many, many ties to shady, if not criminal persons………..”
I’ve seen this coming for quite awhile; especially teaching at the college level for 27 years. The 30-somethings of today were a unique set of students 10 years ago: very self-absorbed and expecting the world to be handed to them rather than any work done by them. Combine them with the current college crowd, who I much more respect for, but nonetheless have the usual youthful idealism. Then add in the never-grew-up Baby Boomers of my generation who keep hoping to relive the ’60’s and you creep toward the 50% of the population who are blinded by the light of His Emminence.
nyomythus: When Obama chose Biden as his running mate, he chose a man with “experience” in foreign affairs to back up his own lack. Unfortunately, Biden’s experience is in making the wrong decision virtually every time for his entire lengthy Senate tenure. And his utterances in the VP debate back up that lack of knowledge and judgment.
On the other hand, McCain (who has a great deal of experience in foreign affairs and does not need backup from his running mate) chose a VP for not just her gender but for her reformer qualities, her ability to appeal to the base (without which he had no chance of winning), and her ability to make good managerial judgments. He figured she would have enough time to learn about foreign affairs and has the character and values to be able to make decisions that would be the right ones. Whether or not you agree with his assessment of her, there is no doubt in my mind that he believed that about Palin.
“If Obama believes the problem is still the one man who gave birth to the Extremist Jihadist movement, we are in “deep doo-doo.”
Obama attended a school in Indonesia with Islam lessons each day, and dutifully learned them. There is no way he does not know what Jihad is about. He is either dissembling for election advantage (likely) or deliberately hiding the truth (possible – even Bush is doing this). Or both.
I can see that angle too.
Neo, I’m doing two things by sounding off on chats and blogs, talking to my inner conscious as honestly as I can about making an honest decision. Two, and to a lesser degree, preparing my faux-allegiance when I’m questioned about who I voted for, natural-selection is alive and well everywhere you turn,
“Oh, your attitude has been noticed, oh yes! I has been noticed!”
Wish I had that clip from “Dr. Zhivago”