McCain’s lousy grades
One of the points Obama supporters often make about McCain is that he must be dumb since he graduated 594th out of 599th in his class at the Naval Academy.
McCain’s low ranking is true. It’s also is true that McCain’s friends insist he “achieved” this status through design, not lack of intelligence; he did well in those subjects that interested him, such as history and literature.
In this respect he follows the tradition of none other than Winston Churchill, whose rep of having been an all-around poor student was undeserved:
The bottom line is that Churchill was mediocre at what bored him, and very good at what interested him: English and History for example. At Sandhurst, which emphasized these subjects along with military tactics and strategy, etc., he finished near the top of his class.
Churchill was a stellar writer and historian, and although McCain has written books and studied history he’s not in Churchill’s class in that regard. Of course, very few (if any) are, so I won’t hold that against him. And as the above excerpt states, Churchill did well once he got to military school. Not true for McCain.
The other day I came across an excellent essay by James Salter entitled “You Must” that might help illuminate the McCain low grade phenomenon. It first appeared in Esquire in 1993, but I encountered it in a selection of the best American essays of that year.
Salter writes of his own experiences as a reluctant cadet at West Point in the middle of World War II, and reveals the evolution of his attitude from one of rebellion to something akin to love. Along the way, he has some interesting things to say about reverse pride in and competition for the lowest passable grade-point average at such an institution [emphasis mine]:
The first man in [academic standing] in the class was celebrated; the second was not, nor any of the rest. It was only when you got to the end that a name became imperishable again, the last man, the goat, and it was with well-founded pride that a goat regarded himself. Custer had been last in his class, Grant, nearly. The goat was the Achilles of the unstudious. He was champion of the rear. In front of him went all the main body with its outstanding and also mediocre figures; behind him was nothing, oblivion.
It was a triumph like any other, if you were not meant for the classroom, to end up at the very bottom. Those with worse grades had gone under, those with only slightly better were lost in the crowd.
McCain missed the distinction of being last—that is, first—in this particular sweepstakes. But he gave it a go. It’s a far different ethos from that which dominates the halls of academe in more conventional colleges, but it’s an ancient tradition of competition nonetheless.
Besides, between his graduation and current campaign – a lifetime of achievement. The guy is over 70, fercryinoutloud!
Scene at DNC HQ:
“Let’s see, uh, ‘chickenhawk’ …nah, that’s gonna be a tough sell. People laughed when we said McCain got off easy by being in prison camp, while Kerry had to tough it out through disillusionment.”
“How about the old chestnut, ‘stupid uncurious Republican’? We’ve already got the press releases written, we’ll just have to fill in a name.”
“Good, good. And let’s add a dash of ‘[your name here] hates brown people. No need of any evidence; the allegation alone suffices.”
“OK, great. Now let’s move on to the next order of business. We need to update the traditional chant ‘Hey hey, ho ho, [something something] has to go.’ We need a catchy four syllable phrase here. Think, people!”
I loved Salter’s Burning The Days and recommend it highly.
Einstein flunked school, too. That’s not to compare McCain to Einstein, of course – just to say that school and exam results aren’t (even nearly) everything.
Rob F:
Well, not exactly. Here’s the scoop on Einstein’s grades. He does share a history of having been excellent in those things that interested him and mediocre in those that didn’t.
How about the sainted FDR’s “gentleman’s C’s” (i.e., “present”) at Harvard?
I see a greater danger that those at the top of the class might be convinced they know it all and stop learning.
I’m curious about the reputation Obama has for savant-like intelligence. For example, Mitsu in an earlier thread exclaimed, “Obama is extremely intelligent (he will be perhaps the most intelligent president we’ve had in quite a while – even smarter than Bill Clinton).” I have other liberal friends similarly entranced with Obama’s intelligence.
Assuming it goes beyond “Obama agrees with me and talks like me therefore he’s really smart (and Bush is really dumb)”, all I can see is that Obama graduated magna cum laude on his JD from Harvard. That sounds impressive, but I’d like to have more context for this.
According to a 2005 Harvard Crimson article (http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=508139) magna cum laude was based on 3.33 GPA; however, so much grade inflation had taken place at Harvard 90% of students were graduating with honors. Since affirmative action has been in place for some time at Harvard, one can’t help but wonder that affirmative action affected grades too.
huxley: It’s true that Harvard has experienced grade inflation. But at the Law School the “magna” designation is apparently not based on absolute GPA but on percentage rank in the class. Students who graduate summa (GPA above 7.2) are apparently still very rare, and the 10% below that get a “magna” degree. The latter is the category into which Obama fell, and that means he did quite well academically indeed.
Obama’s Mythical Intelligence
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/05/obama-mythical.html
Much has been written about Obama’s “mythical intelligence” by a media completely in the tank for the boy blunder. His intelligence is , in fact, a myth. Atlas reader Carolyn wrote an excellent piece peeling back the layers of the mendacious narrative to uncover what a lightweight the Soros stooge really is. She describes the unmeritorious means Obama used to achieve his goals – particularly President of the Law Review. When I was in Washington yesterday we were discussing this little mentioned truth – Obama’s year as President produced little worthwhile or significant. Obama’s year is the least cited review. He produced nothing of import.
…
“Until the 1970’s the editors were picked on the basis of grades, and the president of the Law Review was the student with the highest academic rank. Among these were Elliot L. Richardson, the former Attorney General, and Irwin Griswold, a dean of the Harvard Law School and Solicitor General under Presidents Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon.
That system came under attack in the 1970’s and was replaced by a program in which about half the editors are chosen for their grades and the other half are chosen by fellow students after a special writing competition. The new system, disputed when it began, was meant to help insure that minority students became editors of The Law Review.”
…
“Mr. Obama succeeds Peter Yu, a first-generation Chinese-American, as president of The Law Review. After graduation, Mr. Yu plans to serve as a clerk for Chief Judge Patricia Wald on the of the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit.
Mr. Yu said Mr. Obama’s election ”was a choice on the merits, but others may read something into it.”
Mr. Yu’s words are ominous – ‘others may read something into it.” Clearly, Mr. Yu clearly can’t say he’s one of those ‘others’ recognizing ‘merits’ to instead mean ‘race’. After all, Yu sees which way the PC winds are blowing and he certainly doesn’t want them howling in his face by saying Obama got his post for something other than his intelligence. At the same time, however, Yu’s unease at the choice of Obama is telling for what Yu does not say, as for what he does. For instance, Yu does not cite Obama’s grades nor does Yu cite Obama’s legal writings. Yu says nothing about them at all – and the silence is deafening.
…
Well, it is clear the committee choosing the President of the Review did ‘factor in’ affirmative action. And it is just as clear they didn’t factor in his grades. Nor did they cite his papers written. In fact, there was not a mention of either. Instead, the committee abandoned them altogether and went to something completely unrelated – politics. In citing Obama’s qualifications, they pointed out that he had worked the political wards in Chicago before he came to Harvard. You may well ask – what does this have to do with grades or legal acumen? The answer is – nothing. And the answer gets even more troubling when one then realizes that after Obama was elected to President of the Law Review, he wrote no papers. That’s totally unheard of. Writing no papers for the Law Review is like taking a class in gymnastics without even putting on your leotards to work out. The whole reason for existence of the Review is to write a paper. And yet the very President of it writes none.
…
This is a shocking failure of Obama’s that he did not clerk with a judge after graduation. The fact that it is a shocking failure is evidenced by the embarrassed committee admitting it up front so as to beat others to it.:
“The president of the law review usually goes on to serve as a clerk for a judge on the Federal Court of Appeals for a year, and then as a clerk for an associate justice of the Supreme Court. Mr. Obama said he planned to spend two or three years in private law practice and then return to Chicago to re-enter community work, either in politics or in local organizing.”
“..usually goes on to serve as a clerk”. This polite sentence means ALL Harvard Law Review presidents serve for judges after graduation. Even Obama’s predecessor, Mr. Yu, did that. Indeed, Yu cited his clerkship with a judge so fast you almost thought it was part of his name. And in a sense, it is. There’s a reason why ALL graduates who clerk with a judge trumpet their clerkships instantly in your face. Clerking with a judge is the sign of a law graduate’s intelligence. Bar none. That’s why it’s on their resumes, why it’s the first thing they talk about in conversation “ah, yes, when I clerked with Judge so and so,” etc. It is so prestigious it’s the first thing other attorneys cite when they discuss that particular person – ‘Ah yes, HE clerked with Judge so and so”, etc. In short, clerkship is the shining golden symbol that this attorney is smart. Why? Because judges do not pick stupid people. Why not? Because the clerks oversee the papers for the judge, help write them, do the bulk of research for them, etc. The judge then stands on that work in reaching his decisions, rendering his judgment. Thus, if the work produced by that clerk is faulty – which it will be if the clerk is stupid – than the judge pays for it with his own career, his own reputation. And of course, no judge will do that. Which is why no judge will hire a stupid clerk.
========
There is much much more at the link. read the whole thing there.
Intelligence wisdom leadership ability.
That having been said, I’ve yet to see Obama’s vaunted intelligence in action. Quite the contrary. Plausibility, yes. Intellect, not so much. I doubt that intellect matters, above a requisite threshold level.
And some of our worst Presidents were considered especially bright academically (Wilson, and Carter, to name two).
Last, we need to include the Democratic IQ discount factor. To hear the MSM tell it, every Democrats qualifies as a genius if he can operate a ball point pen or Coke machine without assistance.
Ah, screw it. After years of the Dems lying about Bush’s IQ, SAT and GPA, why not just have the friggin’ College Board administer a test and be done with it?
There have been great military commanders that scored top level in West Point, Neo, and there have been terrible commanders that went first of their class.
Performance in the staff college environment is not the same as out in the field. Some correlations can be made, of course, but the only thing that ever mattered in war, Neo, was what how you performed in battle.
Occam’s Beard Says:
“To hear the MSM tell it, every Democrats qualifies as a genius if he can operate a ball point pen or Coke machine without assistance.”
Occam’s Beard Says:
“To hear the MSM tell it, every Democrats qualifies as a genius if he can operate a ball point pen or Coke machine without assistance.”
True… Kerry being a prime example… While all republicans are incurious if not stooped. One of my favorites was a reporter going the extra yard and out and out throwing in a swipe about Reagan talking about economics even though he knew very little… he only got shut down when someone wrote in that Reagan had an econ degree (ah, certifications…).
I hear republicans still get the most votes from college gratuates btw…
I read MCCain’s book, “Tough Call.” The stories (historically meaningful and difficult decisions by leaders) included in that book are an indication of McCain’s reverance for people of high ethics and ideals. It seems to me that, as a young man, McCain was a peck’s bad boy because he was trying to be a maverick, not the goody two shoes, “Admiral’s Son.”
His time at the Hanoi Hilton changed him. He served his time there with some men of exceptionally high ethics and character. He came to revere those characteristics in leaders and, I think, he tries his best to be such a person.
Being ethically sound and idealistic does not, however, always lead one to make the soundest decisions in politics. I believe McCain-Feingold was an idealistic attempt to reduce the amount of money sloshing around in the political system. It had unintended/unforeseen consequences and turned out to be bad law.
I don’t worry about McCain’s intelligence as much as I do about his energy levels. However, what he proposes is still superior to that proposed by Senator Obama.
Sorry, in my earlier post “Intelligence wisdom leadership ability” should have been separated by “not equal” signs.
We’ve seen that Obama does well when reading a speech, and somewhat less well extempore. There’s a YouTube somewhere of McCain talking in front of a group of veterans. It’s all ad lib, and all good. He’s at ease, moves from humor to seriousness, obviously respects the mostly miltary audience.
Obama doesn’t seem to do all that well away from a prepared text. His comments about “57 states” is more than just a slip of the tongue (unless maybe he was thinking of Teresa Heinz Kerry at the time). “50 states” should be as much a part of your thought process as “D” after “ABC”.
That’s one reason I’m really looking forward to the McCain-Obama debates.
This guy has to be stopped
http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2008/06/14/obama-no-surrender-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
Obama on GOP: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’
@ 2:47 pm by Andy Barr
Barack Obama is warning supporters that the general election fight between him and John McCain may get ugly, but the Illinois senator is vowing not to back down.
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said at a fundraiser in Philadelphia Friday, according to pool reports.
“We don’t have a choice but to win,” Obama said, joking that he has heard “folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles games.”
Obama again said that the GOP will make try to make him look “scary” to voters.
Obama pledging to swing back at the GOP drew much applause from the crowd.
Republican National Committee spokesman Alex Conant said Obama’s rhetoric abandons Obama’s campaign themes of hope and change.
“In the last 24 hours, he’s completely abandoned his campaign’s call for ‘new politics’, equating the election to a ‘brawl’ and promising to ‘bring a gun,’” Conant said.
Keep in mind that the academics at the service academies are rigorous with rigid grading standards and – more so in McCain’s time than today, but still in effect today – predetermined. In an Ivy League, you can find your way to a degree with a minimum of technical, math and science courses, if you so choose. At the services academies, even the most liberal arts path to a degree requires what amounts to a minor in engineering.
Which is to say, that even a low-class ranking for a service academy means a well-earned degree and a well-educated college graduate.
Forget the grades from his childhood days.
Let’s concentrate on politician’s abilities in the PRESENT.
When he speaks now…. does he make a convincing argument?
When he meets with advisors & with other intelligent leaders from around the world…. will they be on equal footing or will they have to talk down so he can understand what’s going on?
What will people say when he leaves the room?
A president should be of greater intelligence & better informed than the average citizen…. that’s why they’re called “leaders.”
I always thought that Obama was more suited to be a college professor than a president. The job requirements of the first, are academic. The second requires something else that can not be taught in a class room. I just do not think Obama has that something else.
Neo — Thanks for clarifying Obama’s magna cum laude.
That is an impressive academic achievement, yet I do wonder at how little came of it. Obama wrote no papers while president of law review, as noted in the article Vince P excerpts, and apparently Obama received no prestigious offers to clerk or join well-known law firms.
A friend of mine, who is a lawyer and graduated a few years earlier than Obama, said that Obama’s lack of papers and lack of offers were exceedingly strange. Given the weight of Obama’s degree, honor, and presidency of Law Review, he should have been able to write his ticket wherever he wanted, and he should have left some kind of mark, but he didn’t.
Instead Obama returned to Chicago, taught some at the Univ of Chicago, worked on his memoir that he finished four years later, and ran voter drives. In fact he achieved little of much substance at the level of presidential candidates until this past year with his dark horse campaign.
I just don’t see a remarkable intelligence at work in Obama that overcomes his lack of experience and lack of accomplishments.
“Given the weight of Obama’s degree, honor, and presidency of Law Review, he should have been able to write his ticket wherever he wanted, and he should have left some kind of mark, but he didn’t.”
Often those titles go to people who deserve them but often they do not. I can’t say that skin color or gender is irrelevant, however it doesn’t take a minority status to get there. Basically if one chooses to do so they can get fairly high academic honors by taking the easiest path to graduation. I knew of many that went that way and a good portion of the top in my class during my years in college did that.
A person who took the hardest courses out there at every juncture and makes a 2.8GPA is probably more intelligent than someone who made a 3.5 taking the easiest path. You can’t simply compare GPA’s. Then again there is the intelligent slacker that did the minimum needed to achieve what they wanted. Of course, most people are some combination of those cases, but most fall into one of them overall.
My guess is that Obama did a lot of looking for easy courses and a little bit of affirmative action. He does this in his political career also. It’s really amusing to watch assuming he doesn’t actually get elected (and then, while still amusing on some level, it will suck since I live in the US). He made an OK senator and in another 10-20 years may have made on OK president (at the very least his ability to work off script would be such that he would most likely have soundly defeated whomever his opponent was).
My guess is that McCain didn’t really try very hard and did the minimum he felt he needed to do. I’ve rarely really seen him rise above everything to just excel above what is needed. About the only thing he ever really seems to get fired up over is defending the US – but at least that is an important one.
In both cases the two individuals are probably quite intelligent and both have their faults in their academic record. You don’t get to this position without being fairly intelligent. However I would rather have someone who can do the job (even if they only meet minimum standards) than one that fails. Of course, I would prefer someone who excels at the job when we are talking about the President of the US – but alas I don’t seem to have that choice.
There’s an article called “McCain and the Bitter Conservative here http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/mccain_and_the_bitter_conserva.html
I made this comment
I hope someone with McCain’s campaign is reading this. KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE GLOBAL WARMING NONSENSE. Global Warming is a fraud. We’re not stupid… Why are you making it almost impossible for a smart person to vote for McCain. If I hear about “carbon” one more freakin time , I swear to God.. I’m going to hit inanimate objects. THERE IS NO WARMING. How stupid are you people that you would advocate such an aggrandizing Cap and Trade scheme? Where are your brains?? And then moving onto oil. Stop saying their making “obscene” profits. Their profit margin is perfectly normal. We need MORE oil. That is the only short and mid-term way to get prices to come down. This is an emergency. Do you know how stupid McCain looks when he compares some moonscape in the arctic that NO ONE will ever visit to the GRAND CANYON! You folks are so out of touch.. it’s embarrassing.. it’s distressing. I have no faith in this country anymore. None whatsoever. You are running against a racist Radical Neo-Marxist…. You know they have no morals or boundaries . they’re going to run all over you…. you better get people to be FOR you instead of just being lucky to have people being AGAINST him.
followed by this one
I want to second what syn said.
I wrote the 2nd comment, so you could tell I am very disappointed with McCain.. However..
I could never in good conscience contribute to having Obama be our military’s Command in Chief.
Screw the future of Republican Party. I am an American and the American Military is the only thing holding the world together right now.
I hope those of you so invested in your pride and anger really consider what will happen if Obama and the Nation of Islam get into the Defense Department.
Our Soldiers, Marines, Sailors.. put under that sort of leadership!
You may as well start spitting in their faces now.
The important thing is character. We don’t know what will face us/the president.
The brightest minds in the country can or do provide advice.
The problem is picking the advice in the face of danger of some sort. You could get slammed in the media as uncaring. You could get slammed by the opponents as a warmonger.
Churchill had the character to face reality, Chamberlain did not.
Their grades did not matter.
It is interesting that, despite all talk of “multiple intelligences”, this argument is about school grades.
Character is important, yet I also want someone knowledgeable and competent.
Intelligence is a mixed blessing. I think most of us know people who blew out their IQ tests or SAT boards or pulled very high grades and went on to do little. I remember a guy from high school with an IQ in the 140s plus looks and charm who now drives a cab.
However, I’m not sure that Obama supporters who go on about Obama’s smartness are even thinking about his grades, just that he sounds smart in marked contrast to Bush’s NASCAR accent and malapropisms. Yet when I take Obama’s speeches apart in print, e.g. his first Rev. Wright speech or his recent victory speech, they don’t hold up well at all.
Historically, the best leaders in the US Army have come disportunately from the very top and the very bottom of the class. It is the middle that has been under-represented. A large percentage of the ‘goats’ actively worked for the distinction.
Pingback:Fortinbras :: neo-neocon » Blog Archive » McCain’s lousy grades :: June :: 2008
I went to the US Naval Academy, but left after two years to go to Stanford. There is certainly an unofficial competition to be the lowest who passes — one must maintain a 2.0 (of 4), in a college that actively gives out Ds and Fs. Many flunk out.
I had two roomates kicked out because of bad grades — very different than an Ivy. Once one gets into an Ivy college, the university tries very hard to avoid anybody not graduating.
Every time his “intelligence” is discussed, Obama supporters should be laughed at over the 57 states AND the 20 years listening to Rev. Wright without ever hearing anything objectionable enough to leave.
I consider Obama a gifted speaker, but the kind of con man who starts out discussing how one must be careful to avoid con men.
Today, McCain should be going for even straighter straight talk, and always compliment Obama for how well he can read a speech. Then attack the ideas in the speech.
Higher taxes, on the rich — those who might offer better jobs. Higher taxes mean there will NOT be better jobs.
Running out on Iraq. When the Dems voted in 1974 & 1975 to leave Vietnam, and allow commie victory, they were accepting boat people and Killing Fields. That’s what Obama’s policies mean for Iraq today.
College is about more than grades. I’m doing fine, thank you, and so is he.
Too bad most of the MSM didn’t tkae their noses out of their books and make more of those keg parties. There they might have learned something useful.
Haha, as you can tell, I made a super-stellar A in typing! Hee.
General George Catlett Marshall, a great Democrat hero, who was once credited by Winston Churchill as the “organizer of victory“, served as the chief military advisor to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during the WWII, was the namesake of the Marshall Plan, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, served (obviously at different times) as both Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense, as well as in other key diplomatic posts . . . whew . . . finished in the middle of his class at V.M.I. academically, but he was first in leadership, as the senior first captain of the Corps of Cadets.
V.M.I. itself was simply not known at all for it’s academics at the time, and entrance was based far more on character than academic achievement. He had been a poor student in high school. He had not even applied for admission to West Point.
In fact, Marshall did not receive a colllege degree from V.M.I., as the rules at the time provided that only the top five in the class qualified for that distinction when he graduated. He had to pass an examination, unlike corresponding West Point grads at the time, and also garner numerous political recommendations in order to get an army commission.
So McCain loved literature and history, completely disliked Math, Economics and Science.
Wow! That’s just great! Elect him and you’ll probably be using oil lamps at your local library.
As Obama got his law degree in the early 1990s, his “magna cum laude” does not necessarily mean that he graduated in the top 10% of his class. Read on from a source that Neo supplied.
That present law-school elite has become harder to join. Prior to 1999, with rampant grade inflation, upwards of 70 percent of law students graduated with honors. But now only the top 40 percent are granted cum laude status; the top 10 percent are designated magna cum laude.
http://harvardmagazine.com/2000/01/the-students-splendid-mi.html
And you all wonder why people believe Republicans are racist. Trying as you are to discrete a blacks mans intellect is usually a sign. I get you want McCain to win but trying to make an argument Barack doesn’t deserve his statues in education and somehow the Naval Academic standards are more difficult than Harvard’s is ridiculous.
How about..”hey I’m a republican and he believes what I believe and I’m voting for him.”
Instead you sit her trying to convince yourself the smart black guy got a free pass, while the dumb white guy is smarter than his grades…whatever.
Nice try. The Party of Lincoln and the first Civil Rights Bills are not the racists.
The Party of Identity Politics and keeping everyone in a box, the Party of the KKK , the Party of Byrd .. those are the racists.
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