Home » When correctly viewed, everything is lewd: Craig and the cop

Comments

When correctly viewed, everything is lewd: Craig and the cop — 34 Comments

  1. Since we’re talking about American guys, oh yeah. Anything other than eyes-front and pretending that you’re the only one in the room is absolutely verboten. You do not make eye contact, you do not greet, you do not engage in conversation. You sure as hell don’t lean over to look at anyone else. Anything that even smacks of you thinking about violating the area around our usual comfort zones is verboten.

    And most men’s bathrooms these days include both a row of urinals and a row of stalls. Urinal etiquette is, as you might expect, even more fraught with peril.

  2. First:
    This Senator – who I don’t recall hearing of before, even though I sorta kinda follow politics – is too muddle-headed dumb to represent the people of his state. If he doesn’t resign, he desereves to be defeated at the polls, for that reason.

    Second:
    Matt Foreman, of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force:

    “What’s up with elected officials like Senator Craig? They stand for so-called ‘family values’ and fight basic protections for gay people while furtively seeking other men for sex. Infuriating pathetic hypocrites. What more can you say?”

    The underlying allegation, I think, is that Christians represent ourselves to be somehow above sin; or without sin If/when Christians represent ourselves this way, we are actually committing sin by failing to recognize our fragility, our weakness, and our susceptibility to sin.

    However, being against gay marriage does not equate to representing ourselves as being above sin. While it is true that one can be hypocritical and hold a political opinion, holding a political opinion does not equate to being hypocritical.

    I’m quite certain some smart gay people are against gay marriage. This is no proof of hypocrisy. Some of this group are surely Christians. Again, this is no proof of hypocrisy. It is not even an indicator of hypocrisy. If you believe the state has a legitimate and rightful interest in encouraging traditional marriage, you can easily be patriotic, gay, Christian, and un-hypocritical.

  3. What’s your point here Neo?

    That the undercover cop should have waited till they were in the same stall with their pants down?

    Ask Stumbley or Richard Aubrey if they’ve ever let their shoes touch those of the guy in the next stall… 😉

  4. On the topic of men’s room etiquette, a good tutorial can be found here.

    Consequences for rule violations are covered as well.

  5. Don’t quite understand why Craig was charged with lewd conduct for looking at someone and tapping his feet, while the guy who admits he is a pedophile and has posted pics of young girls & instructions on how to stake them out on the net cannot be charged with anything.

  6. One’s an easier target than the other way. Politics is like war. It is a jungle. Survival of the fittest. Of unk gets in the way, you got to get him out of the way. It is how it goes.

  7. I’m very shocked, Neo, that you thought the urinal was extinct.

    There was an internet puzzle game a few years back about urinal etiquette that was fairly funny. I found this one is still in existence.

    This sort of bathroom discussion reminds me of the all male dorm where I lived for 2 years, which had only gang showers. The feminists of the day were insisting that this highly desired dorm should be half given to women. This was a perfectly easy suggestion to implement, since the dorm had an axis of symmetry right down the middle.

    The funny part was that the feminists did not even consider that women would ever use gang showers, which were the only kind available in the buidling. So they insisted that the administration must first replace the gang showers so that the dorm “could accommodate women” (and their delicate sensibilities, I presume).

    This episode was an unpersuasive introduction to feminist thought for skeptics like me.

    A few years later, of course, the administration did exactly what the feminists demanded.

  8. Tangential professional note: standard layout of Men’s public restrooms (airport’s definitely applies) requires inclusion of both toilets and urinals.

    Exact amount of fixtures is determined by building code/use rules, per projected occupancy of the building. Usually if 6 fixtures required, 2 of them must be urinals. Toilet partitions are mandatory: stalls with doors (33″w regular, 5’0″wide wheelchair accessible) for toilets and partition screens between urinals. All dimensions and materials are standardized.

    Just saying.

  9. Ah, Tom Lehrer songs, that brought back memories.

    As for the topic of discussion, I’d call it entrapment because as I understand it, the undercover cop acted receptive to the alleged advances. If it was me in that situation, then I’d let the individual know in no uncertain terms that his interest was unwanted…and that should be that.

  10. Two things bother me about this. One is that, as neo says, Craig’s actions might be innocent. That’s possible, although, as she says, a stretch.
    The other is that we have only the cop’s word as to the actions which might, in fact, have been innocent.

    What would be the difference if Craig had done none of these things? It would be the cop’s word against his and he’s still screwed.

    How do we know, for certain, that Craig’s actions really are generally accepted signals?

    I would be really annoyed to find a public restroom used for sex. I would also be really annoyed to find a public restroom used for a cop who’s p***** off his sergeant and gotten the rotten detail. And needs to make a quota.

  11. I’ve witnessed behavior like that, I deeply resent such intrusions on my privacy, and I see no reason to tolerate it: If Craig started peeking into my stall, running his hand under the partition, and pushing his foot up against mine, I would have stomped his foot and smashed his knuckles. Pigs deserve to be treated as pigs.

  12. Craig was just giving the universal signal that he wanted to be a Democrat.

    Sorry, just kidding.

    Seriously, though,

    1. Craig clearly was cruising. No reason to doubt the cop’s word; Craig is the only one with reason to lie.

    2. If Craig initiated the festivities, it’s not entrapment. Initial receptivity is irrelevant. Think of undercover cops busting prostitutes, or illegal arms dealers. Just saying “no” off the bat defeats the purpose. Initiating the transaction is entrapment.

    3. Some elsewhere have bleated the old saw “don’t the cops have anything better to do?” Answer: keeping a lid on perverts in public restrooms – where kids go, for God’s sake – is a perfectly justifiable and reasonable use of police time, IMO.

  13. Occam. Craig is not the only one with a reason to lie.
    I understand entrapment.
    I also understand that this would have gone exactly the same way had Craig been completely innocent.
    It appears he was not.
    My concern is that had he been, nothing else would have changed.

  14. Richard,

    Fair enough.

    I’m not clear on why the cop would lie, but I’m willing to concede the possibility. The preponderance of likelihood would still seem to favor Craig’s lying over the cop’s.

  15. Hey, y’all! I think Craig should drag this out for several weeks and make a big defense based first on the definition of “lewd” , then claim entrapment, then claim his original guilty plea was ill advised (oh ,yeah, he already tried that), and finally try the “I was to drunk to know what I was doing ” defense and go in for treatment.

  16. Pingback:The Anchoress » Blog Archive » Scanning the sphere: Hill’s funds, “Art” fun and Couric’s Sour Puss

  17. I’m sorry, but no American male is that clueless about public restroom etiquette. If he wasn’t cruising for gay sex, he had something even creepier going on. Not sure he needs to resign, but he definitely needs to come clean about whatever his issue is – assuming he knows what it is.

  18. So he’s a hypocrite, so what…

    What I don’t get is why does it look like he’s being sacrificed by his own party?

    What is the message the Republicans are trying to give?

    We don’t tolerate bathroom toe-tapping, or is there something else going on?

  19. Dear neo-neocon:

    Read Laud Humphreys’ ground breaking study of a men’s restroom in a public park, Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex in Public Places. You can learn there of the intricate pattrens men have devised to signal their desires.

  20. Tatyana-

    “Tangential professional note: standard layout of Men’s public restrooms (airport’s definitely applies) requires inclusion of both toilets and urinals.

    Exact amount of fixtures is determined by building code/use rules, per projected occupancy of the building. Usually if 6 fixtures required, 2 of them must be urinals. Toilet partitions are mandatory: stalls with doors (33″w regular, 5′0″wide wheelchair accessible) for toilets and partition screens between urinals. All dimensions and materials are standardized.”

    All this depends on what municipality you are in. In some public restrooms (usually parks or at the beach) stalls have no doors, presumably to make it impossible for people to have enough privacy to engage in lewd conduct. Of course, you then have little privacy to engage in use of the facilities. Also, military toilet facilities in barracks often have no stalls or dividers of any kind.

    Typically (I guess the ladies wouldn’t know), urinals outnumber stalls between 1.5:1 and 2:1. Since urinals take up less space, we have no lines while the ladies wait. If there were a female fixture akin to a urinal, and the women would actually use it, there might not be lines. Keep that in mind next time you complain about the wait, ladies.

    Also, for all the ‘mind your own business’ etiquette of men’s rooms, if you’re in there with guys you know, there’s plenty of conversation. But if I don’t know you- keep to yourself, please.

  21. Does anyone else recall Walter Jenkins, senior LBJ aide and father of six, caught in a homosexual sex act blocks from the White House in 1964? More people went to bat for him then than for Craig now. Jeez, Craig didn’t actually DO anything, like expose himself, etc., etc.
    This is a wonderful example of the judgmental immorality of our times; Nifong lives! It is politically correct, or at least OK, to be overtly gay and proud of it, housing a male prostitute while serving as a Congressman from MA, but woe to those who are conservative, anti-gay marriage, and “violate” an entrapping cop’s space in an adjoining stall!

  22. Craig pleaded guilty to the disorderly conduct charge. Whether or not cops should be cruising for bathroom cruisers, that’s hardly what a really straight man who was so accused would do. As for political correctness and what’s OK and what isn’t, it’s Craig’s fellow Republicans who are trashing him and relieving him of leadership positions and urging him to resign. The Democrats are just indulging in schadenfreude.

    The anti-gay agenda so beloved of the Right Wing is evil, and must be fought in every way possible. It’s very useful in the fight to have some of the most ardent supporters of this agenda exposed as being gay themselves, because it allows for the sly implication that all such supporters are gay hypocrites. It’s fine that there are logical fallacies here – the point isn’t to win the debate on style, but to end a system of laws and customs that denigrate and disenfranchise an unjustly vilified minority group.

  23. Fist, let me say I do NOT condone what senator Craig did. Picking a piece of paper off the bathroom floor?! Doesn’t he know how unsanitary that is?!! Disgusting!

    But, seriously. Let’s think about this “out of the box” or stall, or whatever.

    Suppose some gay person starts coming on to a straight. And suppose this straight doesn’t like it and refrains from decking the S.O.B., but instead complains. Do you for one minute think that the Lefties won’t call that straight a “homophobe?” and try to characterize him as a “danger to society?”

    But, when a political opponent is in the role of their favorite persecuted minority, well, that’s different now, isn’t it?

  24. The thing that makes me laugh is the how puzzled people are with how innocous the signals used were. What I would retort with, at what point should they wait for before arresting someone cruising? Wait until the suspect whips it out?

    I remember back in the 80’s when the Michigan State Police were chasing naked men around the rest stops outside Ann Arbor. Clearly not a “repressed” environment – gays still felt the need to cruise.

    Cruising is the maximum expression of irresponsible male sexual behavior. And this being commented on by a male.

  25. “The anti-gay agenda so beloved of the Right Wing is evil, and must be fought in every way possible.”

    OK, then. So your opinion of what’s evil justifies any behavior you want to pursue. Hope you don’t mind if I adopt that stance.

    As for the “pleading guilty”, ever watch Law and Order? There are lots of people, when confronted with the power of the State, instinctively know that if they fight, they won’t win, and that by daring to assert innocence, they guarantee a harsher penalty. I don’t fight traffic tickets unless I have a witness in the car. If the IRS says I owe more taxes, I pay them, because it is cheaper that way, and because I don’t feel like appearing on the audit list for the rest of my life.

    Hell, look at Tom DeLay. Charged after the DA of the most liberal jurisdiction in Texas had to empanel 5 grand juries to get what he wanted, and yet years later, the DA hasn’t actually held a trial, despite DeLay’s attorneys trying to compel one. Couldn’t have been that the DA knew that unlike liberals, conservatives would actually uphold their own rules and force him to step aside? Naahhh!

    At some point, the right-wing needs to actually start acting like you claim it does. The vilification won’t change, but the number of Leftists around to engage in it will be a hell of a lot smaller.

  26. Men’s rooms have still have urinals. And they have always had toilets. There is another HUGH breach of men’s room etiquette.

  27. Why is his own party quickly turning on him to resign? One reason and one reason only. The press is in bed with liberal politics, he will be hounded out if he runs again and a Dem will replace him. Get out now and let an appointed Republican encumbant run and retain the seat.

    Republicans don’t care any more about his actions in that stall as the democrats do. They both care about the number of seats they will have after the next election. Anything that can be used to win an election will be used.

  28. Camojack writes:

    “As for the topic of discussion, I’d call it entrapment because as I understand it, the undercover cop acted receptive to the alleged advances.”

    I don’t think this is entrapment at all. For it to be entrapment the cop would have had to come on to Craig, instead of the other way around. Entrapment has nothing to do with being “receptive to alleged advances” by a perp.

    Here is another situation that makes this a bit clearer:

    A) Dope dealer walks up to an undercover cop in the restroom of a dance club or bar and offers him dope.

    B) Cop accepts offer and “buys” dope.

    C) Cop arrests dope dealer after buy.

    That is not entrapment.

    SDN writes:

    “As for the “pleading guilty”, ever watch Law and Order? There are lots of people, when confronted with the power of the State, instinctively know that if they fight, they won’t win, and that by daring to assert innocence, they guarantee a harsher penalty.”

    As I recall, the senator said he pled guilty because he “just wanted to get it behind him” and that he didn’t realize he should seek the support of counsel. This is someone who spends the vast majority of his time surrounded by lawyers and works in an institution formed to create laws. In other words, if anyone in this country understands the implications of pleading guilty to a crime it is senators like Mr. Craig. Anyone who falls for the “but I just didn’t understand our legal process” line is, frankly, willfully allowing themselves to be misled.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>