Israel’s broken heart
A piece by Israeli journalist Yossi Klein Halevi entitled “Israel’s Broken Heart,” in the current New Republic (subscription only), places the blame squarely on the Olmert administration for mishandling the opportunities of the last month.
Israeli public opinion was united as never before; only the furthest reaches of the far left failed to see this war as an existential one–and that’s “existential,” not in the sense of some arcane Satrean philosophy, but in the original sense of “a battle for its very existence.”
In such struggles, it’s useless to pretend that one can fight halfheartedly, or with one hand tied behind one’s back because of PC considerations. Halevi describes a political cartoon that appeared in Maariv showing Olmert as a boy playing with a yo-yo inscribed “Israel Defense Forces.” Halevi writes:
None of Israel’s wars was ever fought with greater micromanagement by a government, and no government was ever less qualified to manage a war as this one.
But it wasn’t just Olmert. In recent years, Israel experienced cutbacks in its defense forces much like the US did in the Clinton years. Lulled by Oslo and Camp David and a vision of its own strength, as well as the dream of peace that seemed close at hand, the state of military readiness that Israel had maintained for so many years seems to have softened.
And who can blame them, really (oh, I know; many people can blame Israel for just about anything and everything)? As others have stated before, Israel was tired, bone-tired and weary, of being Sparta all the time.
The immediate post-World War II generation in Israel had no such illusions. They were used to the idea that they would have to struggle against the world merely to be allowed to exist. Subsequent generations lost some of that edge. But events are conspiring to force them to resharpen the swords they were so eager to beat into plowshares.
Halevi ends his article on a note of hope; he believes that this is only one round in a lengthy battle, and that Israel will ultimately be victorious.
But what does “victory” mean in this context, I wonder? How bad will it get before this is over? Will it go nuclear on Iran’s part? And how much time is left before it does? If so, what sort of preemption is necessary, what sort is effective, and what sort is possible?
Broken hearts may be the least of our ailments.
Israel is useful to Iran for now. It gives the arab world a common enemy, and Iran a cause to lead.
As for the nukes, if the people who matter believe this marytrdom crap, then they may launch them. But I suspect the massahs in the arab world prefer to let the peons go see the virgins. They got other plans.
They can bring the infidel West a slower but surer death by oil-strangulation. Iran wants the nukes to make itself invulnerable while it goes for the real prize, which is either by grabbing or by slow nibbling or by intimidation, to control all the mid-east oil. The Koran Curtain. (Czar Putin, by the way, has similar ideas, and can pretty much paralyize Europe by turning a faucet in Siberia, something the Red Army could never do.)
Putting all this another way, terrorism is the cape but the matador is Iran. Gorge it. Now.
Noah Pollack has important thoughts on this (travelled with Michael Totten).
From his POV, it’s all about stopping Iran from getting nukes; and Hez can’t be much of an ally to Iran for a couple of years. I don’t fully disagree.
I also think this was, for Israel, a Pyhrric loss — meaning it was a Pyhrric victory for Hezbollah. I’m wondering how many more such “victories” the normal Arabs will support. I think only one more in Lebanon. I even think Israel should think about losing more often — winning hasn’t done the trick, maybe losing to the muslims will let them stop fighting without the “shame” that drives them.
People are really overthinking this “win-lose” stuff. First, this war is a tiny blip in the overall progress of the big war. Second, unlike a game, there is no way to measuring “winning.”
We know that Hezbollah now has many fewer rockets and terrorists. That can only be a good thing. I’ve following this war for weeks now, and I never expected Israel to “destroy” Hez. How would such a thing be possible if they were being resupplied by Iran?
What this war has done has revealed for all to see that THERE IS NO LEBANESE GOVERNMENT. Lebanon is a failed state. We don’t need to pretend that it’s a real country. It’s one of those blobby places on that map–like the Triple Border region in South America.
The worry to me here is that Hezbo, and much if not all, of the Arab ‘street’ sees this as a huge victory. They have succeeded in defeating the great Armies of Israel. Or so they tell themselves. Of course, Israel allowed the West to defeat them, if defeat is the correct word. As neo said, the newest gneration there does not have the spine that their parents and grandparents had….to some extent. And that country too is infected these days by the necessary PC-ness that is in vogue. It’s little wins that scare me. Every time muslim ‘snesibilities’ are given priority, every time a battle, or war, ends in a ‘tie’ the Islamists feel further encouraged. Our media, our politicians boost their assertions that they are winning, that we are weak and will not fight. Ace has a great article on his blog today….his contention is that the American ‘street’ is, well, American. Forgiving, if you will. But, he states his feelings that they do not want to see the American street ‘angry’. There really is that line in the sand and they are getting way to close to it. I feel the same…and hope he is right.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750500.html
Israel should pack up and go
By Nadim Shehadi
Haaretz newspaper, Israel
What is the logic that will emerge from this war? If Israel can exist only
by destroying the neighborhood, then it’s time to declare it a failed state.
The Zionist dream has turned into a nightmare and is not viable. If the
future holds more of the same, then the time has come to reconsider the
whole project. Every state has a duty to defend its citizens, but also it
has a duty to provide them with security and the two are different. The
prospects are for more destruction, fanaticism, violence and hatred. No
unilateral separation can isolate Israel from this, nor can the region or
the world live with the consequences.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750500.html
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ginger writes: The worry to me here is that Hezbo, and much if not all,
If you refer to Hezbollah as “Hezbo”, then shouldn’t you refer to Israel as “Izbo”…just in order to be “proportionate”, you know?
Ah…..I am no fan of ‘proportionate’ to start with….massive force suits my mind frame much better. Folks who daily proclaim ‘death to America’ don’t garner proportionate feelings from me. As to Hezbo…mostly just laziness to shorthand it and not type out the full ‘party of god’ name, and also a big dose of disrespect thrown in as well. Answer your question?
Seriously Dave, I truly believe that Iran and/or Syria are going to let loose a nuke. Much sooner rather than later. Not a big old ICBM nuke, they don’t have them…yet…but more of a tactical, suitcase if you will nuke. But nevertheless, I feel they think they will be able to ‘get away with it’ based on the past few years politics. And a nuke is a nuke and that will be the end of the Middle East, for a very long time. They are gambling that Allah will save the day, that the west will not fight or react, that all they need do is loose that one, in Israel, and we will all become converts. Wrong. It’s going to be world altering, life altering, and it is going to be a very, very long time until things are as they are…if ever. THEY are banking on our weakness…hoping that the libs and peaceniks will save the day. Again, wrong, and frankly even should an attack never reach our shores I would not want to be a Muslim in America once that bomb goes off. Unfair? Surely. But nevertheless, that’s going to be a very dicey place to be. The Murthas and Reids and Kennedys and Kerrys will be knocking each other down to reach the mics first to demand immediate ‘retribution’. Oh yes honey they will! Because the American public will lynch them alive should they say otherwise. Kos and DU and all the others will be immediately silent. It will be over, in an instant. I have no idea of your age or life experience, and you will likely pooh-pooh me and flame away (I can take it)…..but the second that nuke is fired…..all hell will break lose. And I have no doubt at all that it will. You are living in a peaceful dream land…..the wake up alarm is, I fear, nearly here.
With close and sustained monitoring of Iran’s nuclear program (by UN inspectors), we can be ensured that it’s for peaceful purposes only, and that no weapons are being manufactured.
Israel has 300 nuclear weapons, so the rulers of Iran have no incentive to drop a nuclear bomb on Israel — they’re going to face immediate retaliation if they do, and they know that.
I think you’re being unduly worried. Let Iran get on with its nuclear program as long as it is for peaceful purposes (energy-generation) only.
“daily humiliation from hundreds of checkpoints.”
Just like the millions of travellers throughout the world forced into “checkpoints” because of a bunch of Islamist fascists. As ginger has pointed out, the American “street” is getting to the point that the “humiliation” of the Palestinians means diddley-squat. Who cares? If they find it so “unliveable”, then MOVE. Pressure Jordan, Syria, Egypt, the Saudis into taking them in. Oh, the Arab “brothers” can’t be bothered? The ones who march in “solidarity” every time an “atrocity” is committed by the West? They can’t offer some engineers, schoolteachers, police, doctors, nurses, builders, concrete for HOUSING instead of bunkers?
Please. This is all getting so very tiring and very old. The “Palestinians” and Arabs have made their uncomfortable beds. I’m tired of them complaining about lying in them.
And your retort will be—as it always is—”yeah, but Israel did…”
So what? What have the Arabs done FOR Arabs?
Why should they move? It’s their land. Just because some of us westerners and our Izbo friends (tip of the hat to Dave Rabbit) tell them to move, they should move?
Makes no sense.
Robert writes: “With close and sustained monitoring of Iran’s nuclear program (by UN inspectors), we can be ensured that it’s for peaceful purposes only, and that no weapons are being manufactured.”
Robert, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.
Ginger, are you really that frightened ? The facts actually don’t support your terror.
OBL has at least one victory.
Robert, and Justaguy…. boys, open those blinds and see the world. Sustained UN monitoring of Iran? Are you just trying to make me guffaw? WHAT monitoring?? Am I really that frightened…you bet I am…for the Middle East. They are shortly to be no more I fear…and they seem determined to ignore the danger. It may appear that ‘we’ are in danger, but oh no my friends. You see, we are the ‘evil’ West and we do have the power and we are so loathe to use it, but use it we will. If not for the millions of civilians…and I use that term very loosely regarding those in the ME…but if not for the children there I would say just come on and get this over with. Islam thinks they can win….maybe in a middle aged world, but not today and not now. Maybe right this very moment…we are a land of peace lovers….but go ahead, drop that nuke. I say again, frightened, of course, for me personally…here where I live, not so much initially at least….but it is going to be deadly and ugly and the Muslims seem determined to initiate their fatful end.
not sure why my ‘name’ dropped off…but it did….above post is all mine. 🙂
And why, I wonder, is the PC correct media and politicians so hesitant to call this what it is? It’s a ‘religious’ war pure and simple. It’s the ‘west’ vs Islam….or Christianity or Jewish if you prefer, and has been for thousands of years. Let’s acknowledge what it is we are fighting and call them by name. Makes it so much easier. We are not fighting a ‘war on “terror”‘, we are fighting Islam vs Christianity….same as the world has for thousands of years.
But, see, the problem is, they WANT nuclear weapons, but the West has them, in spades. And who could blame them if they want them? Well, I do coz they intend to use them poste haste. Again…..what inspections?
And 10 years away? Laughing….they are likely not 10 months or even 10 days away. I say again, it is going to be very ugly and I fear quite soon. Try Google….it’s a good starting point for info other than ‘peace in our time’ sites.
Again…..what inspections?
Scott Ritter, UNSCOM chief of weapons inspections in Iraq, has said:
“There was never any diplomacy involved here to begin with. This has been a disaster, and it is about to get worse by orders of magnitude.
“The weapons inspectors, empowered by UN resolution 1441 to ferret out the weapons everyone is so concerned about, have packed their bags and fled Iraq. They have been betrayed by the Bush administration, by Tony Blair and by Spain, as they worked to protect us from both these weapons and from the dreadful effects of a war in the Middle East.
“The inspections were working – weapons were being dismantled, Hussein was under control, and no mass destruction materials were found. The fact that the hammer has come down before these inspectors were even half done with their work means, simply, that those pushing for war never wanted the inspections to work in the first place.”
http://www.irishantiwar.org/news/item.tcl?news_item_id=100175
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Scott Ritter! Is that the best you can do. Come on, try to find a ‘credible’ spokesman to quote. Again…open those blinds fella.
Simply counting the hours till Wasp gets here….going to be fun. Putin? Czar Putin? He is outclassed, outgunned and out funded…he will lock step along when the shit hits the fan. He knows where his $$$’s come from. And it is, ultimately, those $$’s he covets..although Bush seems to forget this upper hand most of the time. Have i said lately that this hawk conservative is becoming less sure of this President? Sad….but true.
Justaguy…or whatever other name you choose to use today….Islam IS in fact one entity. If not, where is the outrage, where are the moderates, where are the peaceful ‘muslims’? Where are they! If that religion is being hijacked by ‘extremists’ why are we hearing no commotion? Why? Because it would appear that they all support it. Don’t tell me about these peaceful, sympathetic marches….honey I remember CNN (must have been a huge mistake!) showing signs of them celebrating on 9/11. And yes, that idiot President will bring full annihilation in a heartbeat…he thinks he will win and Allah is his guide. He cares not a whit about the Iranian people, or anyone else in the ME….but he KNOWS he is a son of Allah and has the power. Again….it’s going to get very ugly. I don’t look forward to saying I told you so.
huge YAWN! Go on to the mosque and spurt this crap…I’ve heard it all before and it is nothing new. Want to debate….give me an original idea to chew on.
They can bring the infidel West a slower but surer death by oil-strangulation. Iran wants the nukes to make itself invulnerable while it goes for the real prize, which is either by grabbing or by slow nibbling or by intimidation, to control all the mid-east oil. The Koran Curtain. (Czar Putin, by the way, has similar ideas, and can pretty much paralyize Europe by turning a faucet in Siberia, something the Red Army could never do.)
So invest money in research into alternative energy. Don’t put yourself in a position to depend on middle east oil. Get rid of the oil addiction that we seem to have.
Robert and Dave the Rabbit: same person.
“If they wanted nuclear weapons (and who could blame them), they are 10 years away at least.”
Justaguy: You know this for a fact? Please tell us, then, where the nuclear facilities are so we can destroy them now, and save 10 years’ worth of worry.
You’re based in Tehran, then? You know the mind of Ahmedinejad? You watched “60 Minutes” the other night and believed it all?
Does the term “useful idiot” mean anything to you?
Keep feeding the crocodile. Maybe he’ll take your head first, so it won’t hurt as much.
well….left for dinner for a bit, and my goodness!
I stated my opinion clearly and straightforwardly. I believe Iran and/or Syria will sooner rather than later use a nuclear weapon, most likely against Israel. I believe they feel they will be able to get away with this based on the current media coverage and political humbrage in the west. I believe the cost to be paid is going to be horrendous, but much, much worse for those in the Middle East than here. I believe they truly think the American populace is of the mindset of the liberal, peacenik leftist currently doing all the shouting and that therin is their great error. And I believe in massive force against enemies rather than “proportional” response against those who wish me and mine death. It is the only thing they will understand. Calling me a moron and ‘general’ will not change my opinion, but does make me chuckle at the lack of debate. Name calling and vile responses is sortta how we got here to begin with I think. And I fervently believe this is a war of ‘religion’. As a christian I do not hit my knees and hear my ‘god’ telling me to kill all non-believers, nor to make myself a martyr. Therein is the huge chasm that cannot be gotten beyond. But that is only my opinion.
I can’t be more honest than to tell you I don’t think we will. And I can’t say I think that is a good thing either…how is that for honesty? The decided lack of spines of late certainly reside here as well. I absolutely do not think they are ‘imaginary’ nukes, and I believe the world is going to suffer for allowing this to go on. But as for the west being bomb’s away…..no, no guts for it at present and so that first bomb will be let loose there and they will all suffer for it. As for our military being stretched ‘too thin’ as you stated earlier. It’s a scary world indeed when ground troops really are not needed to end a debate, isn’t it? And that’s to my point, you all are pushing, hard, and I fear that day the line is reached. I fully know that we are on opposite sides of the argument….I am trying to tell you how this middle aged woman sees it…no names, no vile remarks…and I do discount most of what you say (coz we see it differently), but flaming serves no good and only increases the shouting.
sorry…have no idea why my name keeps dropping off…really I do not! Used to always be there, now suddenly not today. Anyway…of course, the above post is mine…again.
“Russian supplied fuel that your military depends on.”
You are completely and utterly wrong about this and just about everything else you pontificate on.
Inspections worked so well with the North Koreans, who promised not to develop nuclear weapons…and they were “years away” as well.
“It is madness.”
Yeah, pretty much have to hand it to you…you are completely insane if you believe the drivel you’re peddling.
I’m done with you.
Once again, I believe, Iran does not need the capability to refine…they are buying it from others. I think the UN and all it’s many ‘oversight’ programs is the biggest farce going, and has been proven to be so many, many times. I don’t want to talk to them until they get out of my face first. Justaboy…if you feel so strongly about your position, and it readily seems you do…then allow me to say that I place much more credance in those who are not afraid to put their names to their opinions. Yahmir, Robert, Dave the rabbit, justaboy…..whoever. Why are you so timid about claiming your thoughts? Just makes me wonder…and makes me immedately think troll. But, as long as you are reasonable, hell, I’ll debate anyone. Within reason. 🙂
or on second thought…pick a name, any name, and stay with it. Doesn’t have to be your ‘real’ name, but a blog name, but has to be YOU, each time every time. I don’t waste neos bandwidth posting hundreds of links or headlines…folks can search for themselves. But I do state what I feel, clearly, and while you may violently oppose me…I am not hiding and welcome the discussion. Until you want to really own your thoughts I am tired of arguing with several ‘different’ folks who can’t stand up for themselves and their beliefs. The net provides terrific ‘cover’, but it also shows intensely who stands by their thoughts openly.
Even if Israel does get nuked, it will make not a dent in the moonbats’ belief that Iran was only developing nuclear power for peaceful purposes. They will just claim the Zionazis nuked themselves as part of an ingenious plan to take over the world, and the only way we can stop them is to quickly eliminate all the rest of the Jews on the planet before the Elders of Zion conquer us all.
“Good lord – have you read the crap people post on this site – you’d have to look far and wide for ‘intergrity’ here – nevermind what name you post under…..”
So, what happened to Sue?
Fresh from the propaganda outlets of Iran. Not/:
“There is now fervent competition between Sunni and Shia fund in Islam. Both want to rule the resurrected Muslim empire which they intend to assert with the force of arms and the force of terror including nuclear terror. But they both agree it should be an Islamic empire And western countries like Israel should have no place in it. They should be destroyed or subjugated. Israel is merely the front line position.
For Iran who is leading the charge, Israel has to be wiped away. He is arming himself for this purpose. Ahmadinejad openly says it. He is arming himself for that purpose, with atomic weapons. He will undoubtedly seek ti use them and threaten to use them if given the chance. And that is why President Bush commitment to prevent Iran from with nuclear weapons is the most important decision of our time. And support it obviously and we believe the President will live up to that commitment. Until Ahmadinejad has nuclear weapons it will use the two tentacles of the Iranian octopus the foreign the Southern tentacle, though Sunni nonetheless subservient to Hamas to attack Israel and Northern tentacle, Hezbollah which is part of the Shia arc spanning from Tehran to Lebanon. It will use that as the to attack Israel.
The ceasefire is merely an interlude because from their point of view the war has to continue first to achieve their goal in the destruction of Israel and the second to achieve their harder goal, the subjugation and ultimately the defeat of the West.”
PM Netanyahu Interview 8-15-2006
ginger wrote: political humbrage in the west
Ginger, what is “humbrage”? That word doesn’t seem to exist in the dictionary…. Well, maybe you just meant “political turmoil”.
The point is, I don’t think it’s a war of us (Christians) vs them (Muslim). Consider the fact that quite a lot of Palestinians are Christians. Edward Said, who was a member of the PLO’s Council I believe, was a Palestinian Christian (protestant). Hezbollah also has support among the Maronite Christians of Lebanon now, although it initially started from a Shia base.
The Palestinian resistance against Israel has always been secular nationalist (the PLO). Hamas was originally bolstered by Israel itself, as a counterweight to the PLO.
~
Dave, I agree with you. I dont see this as a war of Muslims against Christians either. I see this as a war of Muslims v. infidel, and being a progressive doesnt give you any points with them. It just makes you temporarily useful.
“With close and sustained monitoring … (by UN inspectors)”
That has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read. Given the staggering level of corruption, graft and greed going on at the UN (and I’m sure we are not being told the whole truth) who says their “monitoring” is worth the paper it’s written on. They can and will be bribed to lie.
“we can be ensured that it’s for peaceful purposes only”
That’s the runner up for the second stupidest thing I’ve ever read.
“we can be ensured that it’s for peaceful purposes only”
Oh yeah. Absolutely.
And if you act now, we’ll throw in a UN sponsored ‘cease fire’ agreement strictly enforced by stern comdemnation, complete with un-armed UN observers!
Act now and start your ‘peace process’ today!
Israel’s Christian population outnumbers Palestine’s by a factor of over 5 to 1.
It also forms a larger proportion of Israel’s population than Palestine’s… 2.1% compared to 0.7%.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled troll spew.
Why do I not find the assertion, that no Muslim country has nuclear weapons–made or bought, very reassuring? Were someone privy to all that is known by our government, they would not likely be posting here. So, this assertion is just a pious wish.
What is fact is the Pakistan’s Dr. Khan has been happily selling nuclear weapons knowhow and technology to all comers for many years. What is fact is that Iran has been working on developing nuclear weapons for a decade and more. What is fact is that when the U.S.S.R. collapsed it left many thousands of Russian scientists, skilled in nuclear and biological weapons research and who had been the privileged elite, destitute and unable to feed their families. Indeed, so worried was the U.S.about this situation that part of the funding for Nunn-Lugar Nuclear Threat Reduction Programs went for small salaries for Russian scientists working at a new research facility set up by the U.S. to keep them employed. This bare-bones funding could help only the most eminent scientists, a fraction of those Russian scientists who were destitute so, there were lots of them who could peddle their knowledge for survival for their families; some are reported to have gone to both Iraq and Iran. Finally, with the collapse of the U.S.S.R. many military units were destitute as well and some were reported to have sold off their equipment to enable them buy enough food to survive. It has also been reported that Soviet accounting for nuclear materials, spread throughout the former U.S.S.R. was, shall we say, less than comprehensive and meticulous.
So, what do you think the chances of determined Islamic fanatics with unlimited cash who wanted to buy technology, scientific expertise or even weapons, might have been? This is why I don’t think such assertions are very reassuring.
So invest money in research into alternative energy. Don’t put yourself in a position to depend on middle east oil. Get rid of the oil addiction that we seem to have.
Would by next tuesday work for you?
We should have started on that 30 years ago, but we didn’t. Don’t waste time pointing at the oil companies or Bush or name your favorite boogyman; we all made the bed we now got to sleep and shiver in.
Ginger, I 90% agree with you; though I think you’re wrong to dismiss Russia so rapidly. But the question I want to raise here is whether the people pulling the strings over there are crazy-dumb-nuts or crazy-smart-nuts. I gather you lean towards the first; I suspect the second.
In the end it doesn’t matter, but knowing which helps us better decide the means of execution.
I am UK-based and just got back from a family holiday in Israel. A lot of Israelis feel betrayed that the Western media has not only mis-reported the war (with the exception of Fox News) but has brazenly taken the side of the Islamafascists. A full report of my experiences is on http://edgar1981.blogspot.com/
Armchair writes:
‘the question I want to raise here is whether the people pulling the strings over there are crazy-dumb-nuts or crazy-smart-nuts.’
It’s worse than either choice, I fear. It’s the Final (for most of us) Insanity.
Try this link below,
(which concludes)
“Given the vitality of destructive but sacralized Islamic doctrines (such as dhimmitude, and jihad martyrdom) that date from the religion’s formative years, editorialists, policymakers, and theologians must avoid glib formulations and start addressing the uncomfortable realities of mainstream Islam.”
http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5764
‘existential crisis’, ‘threat to its very existence’ blah blah blah.
Not once in Israel’s 58-year history – with the possible exception of the very beggining of the ’48 war – has Israel’s existence ever been threatened.
No wave of suicide bombings, no rocket attacks, no Egyptian battalion carrying corroded weapons has ever been close to causing the collapse of Israeli civil, economic, or military society.
The only thing they ever threated was Israel’s pride, and its conception of itself as an invincible titan who could dispose of any threat without wincing.
It happened in ’73, in the first Intifada, in the occupation of Lebanon in ’82, and now it’s happened again.
And all the high-tech military hardware and military occupations in the world won’t restore their shattered sense of superiority, or bring them one inch closer to real peace or real security.
And, as long as we’re talking about ‘threats to the existence’ of countries, I don’t see you losing any sleep over the devestation in Lebanon and the hundreds of thousands of refugees – at least 20 percent of their population.
And, as long as we’re talking about ‘threats to the existence’ of countries, I don’t see you losing any sleep over the devastation in Lebanon and the hundreds of thousands of refugees – at least 20 percent of their population.
I’m aghast at the terrorists for making Israel’s military actions necessary. But you know, if you elect terrorists to political office and allow terrorists to embed themselves in your society, you need to look to yourself for explanations for the destruction and carnage.
In World War II, more Germans were killed than British and Americans combined.
I haven’t lost any sleep over the Allies’ “disproportionate response” to Nazi provocation, and I don’t think I’ll lose any over Israel’s.
Ya but the Nazis deserved to be killed, while Hizbollah are innocent, Tatter.