The rockets of Hezbollah: all the world’s a stage, and all the civilians merely props
In line with the theme of some of my other posts today, we have this, about Hezbollah’s tactics in the current conflict in Lebanon:
Hizbollah hid many of the rockets in private homes, and had teams that launched the rockets from next to these homes, forcing the Israelis to “attack civilians” if the launching effort was spotted and attacked with bombs or artillery.
This is a textbook and commonplace case of terrorist strategy.
It starts with utter contempt for the lives of civilians. It’s no surprise, of course, that Hezbollah has contempt for the lives of Israeli civilians, and wishes their destruction. Katushas are not guided and “smart,” they are the dumbest of dumb bombs, aimed only at a general vicinity–in this case, Israeli cities and the citizens therein.
But the contempt Hezbollah has for the lives of its own people is just as great, if not greater, because of the placement of the rocket launchers themselves. And yes, I know, it’s not technically “its own people” Hezbollah is sacrificing here, because Hezbollah is Iranian in origin rather than Lebanese.
It’s as though there’s been a bank robbery, and the Lebanese people are being held hostage by Hezbollah, which hides behind them for protection. And, from its hiding place, Iran–hiding behind both the Lebanese people and the terrorist entity Hezbollah–commences a war both hot (the bombs themselves) and, more importantly, cold–the war for public opinion.
By hiding behind Lebanese civilians it’s not even primarily protection Hezbollah craves, it’s theater–as in Shakespeare’s “all the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players on it.”. Hezbollah is well aware that if, by taking out the missile launchers, Israel kills Lebanese civilians–which is every bit as much Hezbollah’s goal as the initial killing of Israeli civilians by the rockets themselves–then, as sure as day follows night, this fact will be reported heavily by the Western media (mostly without the all-important background context), flashed around the globe, and widely condemned. Civilians are not only expendable on the part of the terrorists, they are important and vital tools–stage props. And it’s ironic that civilians are used by terrorists in this way to try to make the point that it’s the others–the US and Israel–who are purposely targeting civilians.
The propaganda value is immense, and may be the most important part of the exercise in rocketry, as far as Hezbollah is concerned: free publicity against Israel, courtesy of the West itself.
This sort of theater has been going on for a long time, and not just in the Middle East–for example, it was part and parcel of the tactics of the Vietcong, in a strategy known as “clutching the people to their breast.”
To paraphrase Winston Churchill: “some mother, some breast.”
[Big Pharaoh makes a related point.]
Only the most cockeyed Leftist hater will be cheering for Hezbollah and their benefactors in Damascus and Tehran. I would not be surprised if the Arabs begin giving material aid to Israel in this war.
Actually, what just struck me is that this is in some ways an old system exploiting weaknesses in a new(er) system of politics. Terrorism is often considered to be a very modern phenomenon, with very modern tactics, and in some ways it is. But one of the books I read a while ago, which quite enjoyed, was Phil Bobbit’s “The Shield of Achilles.”
In that book, Mr. Bobbitt laid out five success forms of modern (post-Medieval) western governments: The princely state, the kingly state, the territorial state, the state-nation and the nation-state (and, for those interested, pointed toward what he saw as the emergence of a sixth form, the market state.) He characterizes a state as a political form, and a nation as a social form; a state is a particular government, while a nation is a particular people.
In the older state-nations, the nation exists in order to further the goals of the state. One thinks of Napoleonic France as the archetype. In the more modern nation-states, the state exists to safeguard the nation. One thinks of most of the West, and western-influenced governments, as exemplars; the United Nations revolves around the concept, and it is the dominant scheme.
Now, the rhetoric of the Middle Eastern dictatorships is unabashedly nation-state in sound: the Palestinians deserve this, the Iranians deserve that, everybody deserves everything. But the actions on the ground, it seems to me, are quite different– especially when one gets to the point of hiding behind civilians.
There is a key point, though: Are the Hezbollah hiding behind Sunni, or behind their fellow Shi’a? If the later, then they are truly old-school, in the sense of the state-nation: the fellow Shi’a exist to further the aims of their masters, and nothing more. If the forme, then they are slightly more modern, in that some other group exists to take the bullets for their chosen people– a twisted nation-state interpretation.
After all, the fascists of World War II were nation-states. They simply (simply!) regarded the death or subjugation of other nations to be their best path toward advancing the goals of their own nations.
So what? These things happen in wartime. Hiding weapons is better then raping a fourteen year old girl and kill her and her family.
Supposedly true story:
Churchill visited America, and attended a dinner party at the home of a nicely endowed hostess. She leaned over Churchill at one point, offering a platter of fried chicken, and simultaneously displaying attractive aspects of her figure.
Churchill: I couldn’t help myself. I said “Why, yes, I’ll have a breast!”
Hostess: Ha, ha. Dear man, heah, in Vuhginia, we say “I’ll have some white meat.”
Churchill: The next day, I sent her an orchid, and a card: “Had a wonderful time, and would be honored if you would wear this orchid on your white meat.”
Pleases show some proportionality, Daan. The soldiers who did this shall be punished. There is no mechanism to pre-empt a person’s spontaneous behavior. However, hiding weapons behind innocent civilians and shooting missiles at innocent civilains is certainly at least pre-meditated. Sheesh, you’ll have to do much better than that Daan – or is your soul really that shallow??? You may now dissappear and coward away in shame.
Re: Hizbollah firing rockets from beside houses – a general observation:
Hizbollah/Syria/Iran have chosen the ground; and the time; and are enticing their opponent into playing their game. Israel, and the West, must play our own game(s), when and where we choose.
Two things are on display here:
1) The long-term ineffectiveness of the CIA – especially in acquiring human assets inside the Mid-East and Persia, and
2) (maybe) the failure of the America, during the last decade, to be aggressive enough against Iran.
If – as Michael Ledeen has shouted for as long and as loud as he possibly could – America had been supplying the Iranian resistance with communications equipment, money, and high tech military toys, then Khameini and Ahmanutjob would have their hands full trying to stay alive in Tehran. Instead of having time available for contemplating global strategy, they would be contemplating their own hideouts, two blocks away, in case any large demonstrations turned into riots directed at them.
gcotharn,
The Agency has been ineffective for years when it concerns placing officers in environments where dysentery is a life style and danger is physical. The tradition of the Colonial Office poltical officer out on the frontier with his gang of bully boys died with the British Empire.
The only organization capable of this kind of support for covert action are the Army’s Special Forces who have been until recently ugly, redheaded step children.
In Iran the two most likely ethnic groups for this kind of exploitation are the Kurds and the Azari.
Nyomythus,
I am on the winning side. The days of the neocons are over, unless they really want America to be facing the entire world. I am not ashamed at all and i am prepared to fight. America has enacted the ‘The Hague Invasion Act’. I live 5 miles from The Hague and will fight Americans when they land on our beaches. Not for the Netherlands, but for the world.
I am in favour of Hizbollah, because it earnestly tries to recover prisoners from the Israeli prisons. Hiding weapons is necessary, because Hizbollah is like David fighting the giant Israeli monster of Goliath.
Whistle has been blown re: Daan. His time here is limited.
Most of the rockets that Hez has been firing are extremely crude katushya’s; practically a cottage industry in the the Paleostine. The were invented first used in massed launchers by the Russians during WW II and, in volleys, are considered an “area weapon”. Fired singularly, their extraordinary inaccuracy makes them a terror weapon.
Their ballistic arc is so flat that there is no known defense against them other than taking out the launch crew after firing and hoping to attrit crews beyond the replacement cycle.
With the more sophisticated rockets the Israeli’s have deployed their upgraded Patriot batteries.
The tactical reason that the Hez hide close to the civilian population it to increase civilian casualties and to delay counter battery fire.
I love this site and seldom comment, but what is that brings out the idiocrats?
I mean really, Hezbollah is morally superior to the US military and the Isrealis?
I think I’ve drawn out the essence of Daan’s philosophy – ‘nough said.
Only in alternate universes where Dutchmen are great warriors instead of dumb kids in wooden shoes who are using the family computer without permission.
Don’t feed the trolls.
Well said. Don’t feed the trolls.
“Their ballistic arc is so flat that there is no known defense against them other than taking out the launch crew after firing and hoping to attrit crews beyond the replacement cycle.”
Actually, there is a tactical laser that has been highly effective against the Katyusha, in every engagement attempted. The Israelis partially funded research into this weapon, but as it is a chemical laser, the U.S. seems to think it’s too dangerous to employ.
http://www.st.northropgrumman.com/capabilities/laser/products/thel.html
stumbley,
Thanks for that link. I wasn’t aware of that technology.
Again this references to dissapearing. Of course i will dissappear one day, so do you all. So what is the point of repeating this message? I thought the days of the deathfearing 17th century were over. At least in Europe it is, thank the non-existing god for that.
I guess you have all learned these insulting words from the O’Reilly show. Strange way of expressing yourselves. The American policy of teaching children a virtue every week must have past your highschool. On the Dutch television people are allowed to say anything even words as motherfucker or goddamned. It hardly ever happens, because there are hardly any people who feel the need to be as impolite as you are. But just keep on insulting me, it will stengthen my idea that Americans are self-defeating, self-deceiving hypocrites, who are only defeated in the level of hypocracy by the communists who are luckily gone by now. Perhaps even al-Qa’ida is less hypocritical.
I hope my words hurt. It would be a nice retribution for the 50,000 Iraqis that you have killed by voting Bush. You all got blood on your hands! I bet you support the pro-life movement.
Yes, we arabs may be primitive, but at least we are self-destructive.
We know we will lose-we always lose our wars, but we fight anyway and always boast about our prowess while we have our women lick our wounds.
To Daan the hijacker
Are you trying to be insulting or just stupid?
If the media stops reporting the bomb news, then the bombs will stop killing people. This is something that the media will not allow itself to understand. It obviously has to be more complex than that, it obviously has something to do with someone called B. U. S. H.
Dan brings up the prisoner issue. I warned people before that holding terroists as prisoners is doing your side a propaganda disservice.
Yes, we arabs may be primitive, but at least we are self-destructive. We know we will lose-we always lose our wars, but we fight anyway and always boast about our prowess while we have our women lick our wounds.
Raan the tentmaker.
The Arabs [and when I say ‘Arabs’ in this instance I mean Riyadh, Amman, and Cairo] are at least posing as Israel’s ally in this war — despite their reasons, it is a good thing. It gives me the illusion that the Arabs are repositioning their foreign policy — I’m glad I know better. Nevertheless, in this war, Arab friends if they want to be friends in this case I’m sure are welcome. It’s all just an unexpected twist of events from the norm.
Let’s not feed the trolls.
They’ll be history soon enough.
Marcus–
The Shield of Achilles is a long but rewarding read. I loved it and recommend it to everyone.
Daan–
Europeans support mass murder of Jews? Inconceivable, I say. Inconceivable.
Since you support driving the Jews into the ocean, like ‘The Party of God’ (the Hezbollah) desires, then sign up. They’ll be in need of many fighters once Israel reduces their numbers over the coming days.
Oh, c’mon everyone… why respond to Daan? He’s obviously parodying an anti-American and anti-Israeli point of view. There’s no way someone actually believes what he’s written, so he’s only saying outrageous things to provoke a response. Just ignore.
“…yes, I know, it’s not technically “its own people” Hezbollah is sacrificing here, because Hezbollah is Iranian in origin rather than Lebanese.”
Actually, Neo, the party may be controlled by Iran, but the local membership is indeed Lebanese. Nasrallah for example was born in Al Abbasiya and lives (at least until the hostilities started) in South Beirut. One of the difficulties everyone acknowledges in removing Hezbollah is the fact that you’ll have whole swaths of pro-Hezbollah neighborhoods in any given city, especially in Beirut. So in truth, the contempt they show is for the lives of their fellow countrymen/women.
Small point, but I felt the need to make it. Otherwise, the rest of the post is spot on. They are indeed putting civillians out to be killed for propoganda purposes, and that is barbaric. I think it’s notable that several Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia itself, felt the need to criticize what Hezbollah did to instigate the situation. Normally, they’d just single Israel out for their rhetoric.
Wars are bloody, expensive, and dangerous.
But when you finish one with a victor and a loser, the killing stops.
It is extremely diffucult to win one against an enemy bent on suicide, but it can be done. Has been done – see Japan.
Our first mistake is that we have allowed the evil that is Islamic fundamentalism to mestatitize in the middle east two decades beyond their first genuine act of war against a superpower – us – during the hostage incident in 1979.
Western democracies traded the lives and freedoms of Austrians, frenchmen, Czechs, ignored their responsibilities under their own treaties, and would have sold out the Poles but for Chamberlin growing six inches of spine in his waning days, all to avoid the messiness of confronting evil.
We all know how that worked out. All of us who went to public school before the eighties, at least…
The enemy is headquarted in Tehran. Everything between here and there is just a battlefield that will have to be traversed sooner or later. And the longer we wait, the more prepared and lethal the enemy will become.
Faster, please.
The Yugoslavian Army did the same thing to its civilians during the NATO bombing campaign. My friend’s mother told us that the army brought some artillery pieces to her fields and left them there in the open. What the army was hoping was that the NATO bombers would take out the artillery and the homes around it and then they could claim that NATO targeted civilians. She & her neighbors dragged the guns as far from every house as possible and covered them up with branches and leaves and hoped that NATO fliers wouldn’t see the guns. It worked.
No real government uses its civilian population that way.
TmjUtah saith: “It is extremely diffucult to win one against an enemy bent on suicide, but it can be done. Has been done – see Japan.”
Yeah, but the Japanese were committing suicide in the service of the emperor (who, most of them knew in their hearts, was really a dictator). So the will to fight to the suicideal end wasn’t strong enough for many Japanese.
who, most of them knew in their hearts, was really a dictator
What they knew in their hearts was that Hirohito was a God.
So the will to fight to the suicideal end wasn’t strong enough for many Japanese.
The command of Allah to smite the unbeliever isn’t strong enough for many Muslims, but for some it is.
Kill the ‘some’.
The most critical difference between Imperial Japan and Islam… in fact, between Communism and Islam as well… is that Japan had an emperor who was NOT a mythical being, but a real live human being. An actual person will give clear orders, not garbled riddles that be interpreted any way his followers please. An Emperor, bound by survival instinct if nothing else, can give the order to surrender in the face of annihilation, and (aside from a few holdouts) expect to be obeyed.
A mythical god can not do that. The promised afterlife of Islam is the goal, and no earthly authority can derail the fanatic movement. Not even an authority technologically advanced enough to imitate divinity is enough. If the tecno-god says something the fanatics consider heresy, then the techno-god is a false god, and the devotion to destroying it increases.
The left wing hope for a new cold war with Islam, to “restore the balance of power.” They will find, to their horror, that Islam will tolerate no such balance, and will gleefully destroy as much of the world as they can, to eliminate any balance imposed by the international community.
“Devotion turns from worshipping it to destroying it,” I should have said.
Well, if Hezbulla is playing this game, why does Israel have to buy into it? Why drop bombs when you know that this is what is happening, and that civilians are going to be killed? Why give the Hezbulla the opportunity they are looking for? Just be restrained and desist from dropping the retaliatory bomb …. sounds like a no-brainer to me. Clearly, the Israeli military needs to put some smarter minds in charge of its media strategy.
Hey Neo,
You wrote: “But the contempt Hezbollah has for the lives of its own people is just as great, if not greater, because of the placement of the rocket launchers themselves.”
This doesn’t make very much sense because the Hezbollah launch the rockets from cars, not from “rocket launchers”! Because they launch rockets from cars, the place where the rocket is launched from is usually going to be quite far from where the rocket was stored in someone’s home.
Hey Neo,
You wrote: “But the contempt Hezbollah has for the lives of its own people is just as great, if not greater, because of the placement of the rocket launchers themselves.”
This doesn’t make very much sense because the Hezbollah launch the rockets from cars, not from “rocket launchers”! Because they launch rockets from cars, the place where the rocket is launched from is usually going to be quite far from where the rocket was stored in someone’s home.
That’s an excellent point about the difference between a mythic being and a living breathing man as the font of authority.
I have related before my theory of social balance: It only takes one drunk uncle with a shotgun to screw up a wedding.
Western nihilists seek ultimate freedom and blindly pursue anarchy as their utopia. Islamists seek to constrain the individuality, and thus the potential, of all men.
Both groups damage society far out of proportion to their actual numbers. It takes years of planning and the combined efforts of literally thousands of people to build something like a space shuttle or a massive bridge, while only minutes and some cash for one person to destroy the same constructs.
Western civ is a construct. It’s strength is based on cooperative coexistence and mostly free markets – neither of which are embraced by nihilists, and both of which are outright rejected by the Islamist fundamentalist barbarians we have allowed onto the center of the world stage.
Lebanon the state is paying the price for attempting to be W. Germany without an America to keep the wolves away. A state is responsible for what happens within its borders, and in this case, what originated within and impacted outside has brought the only predictable response one could expect from Israel.
The Israelis are being scrupulously proportianate in their attacks so far; all the media (less al Reuters and the Beeb) reports that I have seen or heard up to this point have mentioned just what Hizbollah target the IDF was aiming at when their bombs damaged other structures. I find this occurence to be hugely important; prior to now the standard has been to amplify the suffering of the Abu family while skimming over the fact that for the last five years they lived next door to a comm center or weapons store.
Saudi, Jordan, and Egypt seem to be aligning “out of the fold”, too, at least for now. Their decisions will be based on their own interests – which right now may well be focused on not being included in any IDF strategic target lists – as is right and proper for states. I believe they see Iran as a more immediate threat to themselves than possibly even the Israelis do, if that is possible.
The times, they may be a’changing.
Well, if Hezbulla is playing this game, why does Israel have to buy into it? Why drop bombs when you know that this is what is happening, and that civilians are going to be killed?
At this point, if Israel does target Hezbollah, some Lebanese civilians may be killed.
If they don’t target Hezbollah, many Israeli civilians will be killed. For Israel, it’s a no brainer.
Israel is still practicing remarkable restraint. Hezbollah is fighting with everything they’ve got, but Israel is using only a fraction of its military might.
maryatexitzero: “Israel is still practicing remarkable restraint. Hezbollah is fighting with everything they’ve got, but Israel is using only a fraction of its military might.”
Unfortunately, Israel may not be able to deploy what is going to matter most — its ground troops. And just a “shock and awe” display from the skies will not win Israel this war. To see why, read this article from the New York Post:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/israels_new_fear_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm
Unfortunately, Israel may not be able to deploy what is going to matter most — its ground troops. And just a “shock and awe” display from the skies will not win Israel this war. To see why, read this article from the New York Post:
As of several hours before your post I believe they did just that.
Well, if Hezbulla is playing this game, why does Israel have to buy into it? Why drop bombs when you know that this is what is happening, and that civilians are going to be killed?
At this point, if Israel does target Hezbollah, some Lebanese civilians may be killed.
But consider what the Wall Street Journal reported today. It seems that retaliating by dropping bombs is killing only civilians and won’t hurt either the Hezbollah fighters nor destroy the “rocket/missile launchers” (for reasons that become clear as you read the following):
“Most of Hezbollah’s missiles are
tucked deep inside Shiite villages and towns that are overwhelmingly
aligned with the militant group. Those loyalties are underlined by
myriad colorful posters plastered on walls and billboards throughout
Shiite villages in the south. The posters all praise Hezbollah for
its role in fighting Israel. In many of these towns, Hezbollah
controls the local government and provides a broad range of social
services, including education and medical services. Hezbollah
fighters are often awarded celebrity status.
“Most of the short-range missiles held in these towns are said to be
stored in wooden crates that are easily transported. Mr. Goksel, the
former U.N. official, said Hezbollah militants regularly move the
weapons to launch sites in cars, station wagons and vans. After
setting up launch pads, often camouflaged by trees and underbrush,
they attach makeshift timers, such as digital watches, and drive away
before the missiles are fired.”
(Wall Street Journal)
All it takes to turn a terrorist into an “innocent civilian” is to hide the weapons they were using.
Daan’s banned (how euphonious!).
If a person dumps comment after comment, one right after the other (I think there were seven or eight in a row from Daan, each just a sentence or two) simply to stream invective and take over the comments section of a blog–that is, by definition, troll behavior.
As I’ve said many times, I don’t mind disagreement and reasoned debate. That’s part of the point of having a comments section. But that’s not what Daan was offering.
“All it takes to turn a terrorist into an “innocent civilian” is to hide the weapons they were using.”
That’s a non sequitur. But that’s not a justification for killing civilians, on the ground that each killed civilian *may* be a potential terrorist.
What about civilians that store terrorist’s weapons for them, and offer them shelter and moral support? Can we kill them?
What about civilians that send telemetry information to terrorist rocket crews? Can we kill them?
What about civilians that, ten seconds ago, were firing rockets into Haifa, but have now ditched all the empty cartridges and are being filmed by their news crews making a run for safety, like OJ Simpson’s white bronco, with a newsfeed at the bottom of the screen saying “THESE ARE UNARMED CIVILIANS BEING PURSUED BY BLOODTHIRSTY ISRAELI AIRCRAFT.” Can we kill them?
The UN has already given its answer to all these questions, and more. That’s why the UN will be crushed, either by the victims of terrorism they’re struggling to oppress, or by the terrorists who the UN can do nothing but support.
There is no doubt that what you describe happen in certain cases. Some civilians give terrorists moral and material support. No doubt about that.
But the point is, unless you have a way of identifying *which* of the civilians do this, the only choice you have is to retaliate indiscriminately, i.e. you’ll end up killing some civilians who are guilty as charged, as well as lots of civilians who are innocent.
In other words, the line gets crossed into “collective punishment”.
That is morally unacceptable.
Pointing this out is in no way a justification of terrorism (which also is morally acceptable) or of the civilians who abet terrorism.
The point is, while combating terrorism, do we want to become just as immoral as the terrorists? If we do, then such a combat will become a self-defeating exercise.
“Pointing this out is in no way a justification of terrorism (which also is morally acceptable) or of the civilians who abet terrorism.”
Sorry for the typo: I meant to say, of course, “terrorism (which also is morally UNacceptable)”.
Richardson:
The answer for all of the “innocent” civilians is to take responsibility for their lives and either a) remove themselves from areas where terrorists are active; or b) actively work to help eliminate the terrorists. Otherwise, their “innocence” is in question. If my life is in danger because a criminal is hiding out in my neighborhood, I’m going to ensure that that criminal is caught. Whether the criminal kills me for “ratting him out” or the cops kill me by mistake because I’m in the wrong place at the wrong time, I’m dead either way…but at least by “ratting the bum out”, I’ve attempted to do the right thing.
If it comes to a choice between survivial and moral acceptability, I know which I would choose.
Israel was faced with that choice in 1967, and they chose survival through a morally unacceptable pre-emptive attack. I hope they have not changed their mind since, as I would like to see other extinct-for-two-thousand-years species revived.
If it comes to a choice between survivial and moral acceptability, I know which I would choose.
Israel was faced with that choice in 1967, and they chose survival through a morally unacceptable pre-emptive attack.
Instead of still fighting 1967’s war, let’s focus on the here and the now. On the present.
Today, there’s no way that Israel’s “survival” is at stake. For heaven’s sake, all that happened to trigger this was the capturing of ONE soldier (Gilad Shalit) in Gaza.
The capture of ONE soldier is putting the survival of Israel at stake? Don’t make me laugh. Israel is estimated to have 60 nuclear weapons and one of the world’s most sophisticated armies. It has the full backing and security backing from the USA. The situation is dramatically different from 1967.
Attempting to justify disproportionate and indiscriminate retaliation on the spurious ground that “survival is at stake” is simply self-anointment with victimhood, with no connection to today’s reality.
The point is, while combating terrorism, do we want to become just as immoral as the terrorists?
The terrorists hope to someday enforce Talibanesque laws throughout the Middle East. Those laws include an apartheid oppression of all non-Muslims, giving women fewer rights than dogs, Arab enslavement of blacks (as in Mauritania and the Sudan). They celebrate each attack against civilians by having a big party and handing out sweets to their children. They always have and they always will target civilians to further their goals, and if they gain more political power they will kill more people.
The Israelis are more ‘moral’ than the terrorists and the Islamist state they hope to form. The French, the Thais, the Russians and even the Chinese are more ‘moral’ than these terrorists. Simple ameoba are more moral than these terrorists. Becoming the equivalent of this nadir of life as we know it is the least of our worries.
Re:Richardson Skype | 07.18.06 – 11:19 am
One soldier? Last I heard there were three, plus some other brutal murders prior to this latest action. Not to mention about a thousand rocket attacks from Gaza since Israel turned it over to those people. It’s time to stop this now. The very object of war is to exercise disproportionate force to destroy your enemies to the point to where they are no longer a danger to your country, and various innocent citizens. It is beyond foolish to assert that just because only “one” or “ten” or a thousand of your citizens are randomly murdered, kidnapped, etc., and that the rockets are inaccurate, that you must tolerate this behavior.
Right on, man (beloved infidel)! Over at M. Malkin’s Hot Air I got to hear hizbullah’s el boss giving a nice hate speech. My God! this monster rants just like hitler did. Why the West is not saturating the Bekkah valley with napalm is beyond me. I really wonder if elements of the Left have heard this guy??
One soldier? Last I heard there were three, plus some other brutal murders prior to this latest action.
Please read what I wrote more carefully. I had written:
“all that happened to trigger this was the capturing of ONE soldier (Gilad Shalit) in Gaza”
The trigger for Israel’s invasion of was the capture of ONE soldier, Shalit, by Hamas operating from the Gaza strip. As soon as that happened, Israel invaded Gaza, bombed the Gaza power plant, etc. It was only after this that the Hezbollah swung into action, capturing two more soldiers after making an incursion into Israel from Lebanon.
Skype,
I notice that your dance over the other casualties in the operation to snatch the soldier. I also notice that you conveniently don’t mention the ambush, in place prior to the kidnap, the destroyed the first tank only yards over the border, in pursuit of the kidnaper’s and the fact that the entire crew was killed.
I belieive that wyou are either delusional, or have an agenda or, as is common, both.
The terrorists hope to someday enforce Talibanesque laws throughout the Middle East.
It’s very convenient, isn’t it, to bracket all the different groups and organizations, with their different histories, motivations, and goals, into the same blanket term “the terrorists”, “Talibanesque”, etc. and pretend that they are all monolithic, all exactly like the Taliban and with identical goals?
That’s lazy thinking. Each of the groups has different goals and strategies, and a different history, and unless this is grasped, we will never be able to deal with the complexity of the situation.
Mere “weed them out by military power” is never going to work. Look at Afghanistan. A massive military victory was won. But now the Taliban are teeming and resurgent all over the country again. Why? Because winning the war is not enough — unless the peace is won as well, nothing is accomplished. And that’s why “saturating the Bekaah valley with napalm” as someone suggested here is an exceedingly poor idea (leaving totally aside the morality of it). Why? Because, if we do that, for the next five generations at least the folks there will remember it and they will want to take revenge.
Skype:
One quotation for you to ponder:
“Let them hate me, as long as they fear me.” N. Bonaparte
If they fear you enough, they will become paralyzed and functionally harmless. As far as the fanatics are concerned, nothing is going to convince them, so kill them. One less nut to loose sleep over…
I’m not very bloodhtirsty normally, but I’ve had it up to here with these jerks. Bastard sons and daughters of a bastard pseudo-religion.
The Universe is better off without them.
Wack them and have done with it.
Because winning the war is not enough — unless the peace is won as well, nothing is accomplished.
We (ie, the UN, who is running that particular war) didn’t ‘win the war’ in Afghanistan, we ousted the Taliban from power. They survived as an organization and they were replaced by another Islamist regime. That, not the complete destruction of the Taliban and their supporters in Pakistan, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc., was the goal of the operation. It’s no surprise that the Taliban are back.
When you want to ‘win a war’, your goal should be a simple victory.If Israel wants to win this war, they need to achieve victory in the form of the destruction of their opponents’ infrastructure to the point where their opponent unconditionally surrenders. Those are the basic rules of war. If people don’t like those rules, they shouldn’t go around starting wars.
Good ole Charlie: You speak the truth in a most unpleasant way, and it’s good that somebody does. Let’s have no illusions that we can clean up this doo-doo while keeping our hands clean. And I wouldn’t worry abbout “becoming like them”; they’ll be dead.
You wrote: “Let them hate me, as long as they fear me.” N. Bonaparte
Let’s recall the end that Napoleon came to. He died a prisoner, defeated….
This philosophy is fundamentally flawed.
You wrote: I’m not very bloodhtirsty normally, but I’ve had it up to here with these jerks. Bastard sons and daughters of a bastard pseudo-religion.
Let me get this straight…You want to physically eliminate all Muslims in the world? Even assuming that such a thing was even feasible, how is what you’re suggesting different from what the nazis did???
Not interested in eliminating ALL Muslims; just the ones that want to eliminate ME. I don’t know why that’s so hard for some to comprehend.
If Islam truly is the “Religion of Peace™”, then there should be millions of adherents and clerics denouncing terrorism, and working to eliminate the fanatics in their midst.
Seen anything like that lately?
Eric, that’s why they fire from civilian neighborhoods. That way, their arms depot is not threatened.
The best way to win hearts and minds is to make everyone in Arabia side with the US. You do this by making it very clear that resisting the US will end in immediate death and suffering. By making symmetrical public opinion of which side is more ruthless, the competition in war then becomes about “who is better at war and who gives out the most treats for their allies”. The US has the terroists beat at giving carrots, the US has boat loads of money and compassion and military supremacy. However, if a person is given a choice between being given 10 million dollars and have their child eviscerated, or work for the terroists for 10 bucks a month and have their child safe, guess which one the Muslims peeps will choose?
When Muslims know that helping the US will mean their child is safe and they get money, and if they help terroists, they will be striped of their economic life and killed. The Muslim world will surrender to the US.
It’s all about psychology, breaking someone’s will to do. A very easy technique is to offer them punishment when they resist, rewards when they help.
War is about self-interest. The self interest of nations, of families, of children, of greedy power mongers. Whatever. Accrue the loyalties of enough people through manipulating their self-interest, and you win the war. Currently, the US has only a small portion of the Arab world in our pocket helping us, help them. The terroists have the great majority, which are in Pakistan, Indonesia, Kashmir, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. The inroads Bush has made in Afghanistan and Iraq, is a starting point, a warming exercise for the US military. They are stretching, in preparation for the true test. Which is only beginning now.
I found this quote by [former] Pres. Clinton:
WASHINGTON: Former US President Bill Clinton who many Arab thoughts was more even-handed on the Palestine question than his predecessors shocked many when he asserted in Toronto last week that had Israel been attacked by Iraq or Iran during his presidency, he would have been ready to “grab a rifle, get in a ditch and fight and die.”
“The Israelis know that if the Iraqi or the Iranian army came across the Jordan River, I would personally grab a rifle, get in a ditch, and fight and die,” Clinton told the crowd at a fund-raising event for a Toronto Jewish charity Monday.
Clinton, you ham-bone clown, you don’t grab a rifle and die. You give the order so that they die. Didn’t you learn anything in those 8 years?
“I am not ashamed at all and i am prepared to fight. America has enacted the ‘The Hague Invasion Act’. I live 5 miles from The Hague and will fight Americans when they land on our beaches. Not for the Netherlands, but for the world.”
Are you guys under sharia law yet?
“Let’s recall the end that Napoleon came to. He died a prisoner, defeated….
This philosophy is fundamentally flawed.”
He died a prisoner, defeated, because French dictatorship was inferior to English constitutional monarchy and free markets.
“Clinton, you ham-bone clown, you don’t grab a rifle and die. You give the order so that they die. Didn’t you learn anything in those 8 years?”
He learned that you want your airforce to bomb from 50,000 ft so you suffer no losses, and hence face no political consequences.
Of course, the bin Laden’s and Saddam’s take this to mean we won’t risk our hides for any reason, but most likely when they put that “knowledge” into full effect it will be on someone else’s watch, so no biggie.
“The trigger for Israel’s invasion of was the capture of ONE soldier, . . .”
Leading up to that were quite a few rocket attacks.
The Pali’s chose Hamas, I hope they are enjoying that choice . . .
stumbley wrote: “Not interested in eliminating ALL Muslims; just the ones that want to eliminate ME. I don’t know why that’s so hard for some to comprehend.”
The point is, how would you know which ones want to eliminate you? You will have to go by guesswork, and so you’ll end up eliminating a lot of people quite indiscriminately.
Moby:
Start with the ones that are visibly trying to eliminate you. The ones that dance in the street, fire guns in the air, and distribute candy to the kiddies on 9-11.
The more intelligent/least ignorant will get the message. Those that either don’t get or don’t want to get the message will be fodder for the next round. And will be self-identified.
I read a memoir of a sniper for the Marines (sorry I can’t remember the title). He only fires when he sees a weapon in the target’s hand, pointed at something or someone.
His record: 108 shots – 107 kills – 1 seriously wounded. A true professional at work.
You can easily set some standards for “wet work”. Comes down to common sense: is he about to harm me or my friends?
The person that shoots first usually wins. True in ordinary life, true in battle.
“The Israelis know that if the Iraqi or the Iranian army came across the Jordan River, I would personally grab a rifle, get in a ditch, and fight and die,”
Clinton told the crowd at a fund-raising event for a Toronto Jewish charity Monday.
With all the conviction he had raising your taxes.
Canada. That must’ve been where he set his rifle down during the Viet Nam war. He was just going back to retrieve it I imagine.
If a Katushya falls in the city
that might be kinda shitty
But if there’s no news crew nearby
does anybody die?