“Sister Wives:” just your average, everyday, polygamous family
Busy day today! I’ve got a new piece up at RightNetwork, a little change of pace from the election. It’s about the TLC program “Sister Wives,” a reality show that features a Utah man and his four wives. To whet your appetite:
Guys, imagine: not just one woman, but two or three or four, all clamoring for that much-needed “talk.” Very few men would be up to that particular task, but Kody is; he has to be.
Fascinating article, neo. I particularly like reading the opening phrase of your line, “Guys, imagine: not just one woman, but two or three or four,” which you then conclude by slapping the “guys” back to reality with “all clamoring for that much-needed “talk.”” As the proud 35-year partner of a single strong wife, I shudder at the thought of “two or three or four.”
But I have a few minor bones that are worth picking. The notion that “The entire enterprise…rests on the women staying of their own free will, which in turn rests on the man’s ability to keep them happy enough…” is too simplistic.
Any working relationship depends on willing participation of all partners. The withdrawal of one woman, in this case, might say less about the man’s ability to keep her happy than her own inability to accommodate the complexities of the relationship.
And interestingly the meta-relationship (for want of a term) might be perfectly capable of enduring such a withdrawal (or loss through death) without harm. More than you can say about a conventional marriage. Bottom line, they all have to be willing to be happy and work at it together.
Also, you write, “For the man even more than for the women, there is no indulging in whims, no playing favorites, no going with one’s emotions or desires of the moment.” I know that you mean that this and the other conditions you mention ought to be true if this is to work well. However, family and group politics are complex, and a continuing–but bad–relationship is also one possible outcome. Or are alliances not going to occur from day to day?
I’d suggest they all need to avoid indulging themselves at the cost of their partner(s) like any good married, uh, couple.
LAG: I’m describing the family in the show, and families of that particular type. Polygamous families in general have many different kinds of structures, including very controlling and authoritarian ones by the man. It’s a subject that hasn’t been studied much in this country, since the families are usually undercover.
Yeah, just what I need to simplify my life. More wives.
Intellectually, I can kinda see the point of greater need for emotional control, selflessness, forgiveness, all those good things. Clearly, this is something other than pair-bond marriage as we know it. It’s an apples-and-oranges comparison.
Hell, I’m 57 and I shudder at the idea of bringing another plant into the house.
AVI: LOL
I have enough trouble with one wife – why in hell would I compound that situation with more than one wife?!?!?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYG6lw7tJZw
“If I was a Sultan I’d had three wives
And was surrounded by triple beauty.
Still, there’ll be so much care and worries!
Ah, Allah save me from this plague!
Oh, three wives – tis not so bad!
But, yes it is, on the other hand!
What are we, Sultans, to do? Someone, make this clear:
How many wives are enough, three or only one?
The question is difficult, but…I have the answer here:
If I was a Sultan, I’d be a confirmed bachelor!
Oh, tis not so bad – to have no wife!
Much better off, a worry-free life!”
Scottie: beats me.
I seem to recall from anthropology classes that in polygamous cultures in general, polygamy is an ideal they strive for but a lot of men have just one wife. In such cultures, it’s often a form of conspicuous consumption, a way to show wealth and status, because most men can’t afford it.
The program “Sister Wives” isn’t completely clear on what the motivation is for the family it features, other than the things I mentioned in my piece at RightNetwork (particularly companionship for the women). There is a religious justification, I’m pretty sure, which they don’t talk too much about, but which I believe is some variation on the theme of “be fruitful and multiply.”
neo, okay, now I see it. Thanks. Still, if that’s an accurate description of their group dynamic, I am not optimistic for their long-term success. The man hasn’t been built, etc, etc.
One other point: wouldn’t polyamory be a better description than polygamy? This seems to be non-patriarchal, which is norm, I think, for polyamorous relationships, whereas polygomy and patriarchy are usually associated. I haven’t watched but realize the term was probably the shows’ chosen description.
I’ve spent a bit of time on projects in Southern UT and spent some time observing these relationships. It looked like women that participate in these arrangements are passive and subservient. We used to make jokes about how the men, boys and dogs rode in the front of the pickup, while the women and girls rode in the back. Even in January…
I’ve had more than one polyamorous relationship…
they are very hard and take sane people
problem is that most who want to try are not emotionally mature enough to actually do it. ie, they are not what they think they are.
i am now a happily married monogamist…
I have teased about having 3 or 4 women all needing to talk (often not very rationally expressing the desire, to boot). However, a good whip would merely delegate. Jane, go over and talk with Susan. I am busy with Christy… or such. If the law was set right, it would not be as difficult. My only problem with poly is… my particular Christian understanding.
If there is a major catastrophe, more men than women will die in the the aftermath. Poly is still a possible function in such a situation. Law will be what the one with the whip and social norms permit. It still has a possible use. Actually, if a guy was up to mastering 3 or 4 women, life would be pretty good, given that marriage is about children and domestic life (not the frivolous foolishness marriage has become for the most part today). Have a group of women able to share domestic and marital chores and duties would be good. Feeding everybody would be another matter. Then again, hunting, fishing, and gardening would go a long way toward even that.
The problem with cities is that the government comes in and pays, even now, allowing nothing men to father many children, though requiring it to be outside of marriage.
As the wit Oscar Wilde is quoted as saying, bigamy is one wife too many, monagomy the same.
There is polygamy and then there is polygamy. Our favorite terrorist mastermind, UBL, marries ’em, pokes ’em, they have a kid, and when they are of voting age he divorces ’em.
Say… that sounds a little like …
Not sure why you are wasting your time and talent on this type of thing, Neo…..
IRA Darth Aggie: You’ll have to explain how Oscar Wilde’s views on women are pertinent.
Lee Merrick: Can’t write about politics all the time. Would probably go stark raving mad.
I have an interest in cultural trends like reality TV (I watch some of it for entertainment), and in anthropology and anything having to do with families. This combined them all.
I guess you wouldn’t be too keen on this post of mine either.
I don’t know what those gals see in that guy. Maybe they need help raising their kids and they like the idea of a clan.
Why did Meri suggest Robyn to Kody in the first place? It seems like she had a girl crush on her or something. Or was Kody talking about getting a new wife, and so Meri wanted some control over the situation? it seems like the whole thing started because poor Meri couldn’t have children. So Kody didn’t want to divorce her, but wanted kids, so then he married Janelle and had some kids. And then I don’t why he wanted another wife, I guess he wanted more kids. So he married that other gal. Now sixteen years later a new one. So what’s the deal with this poor new gal Robyn? She’s a single mom and obviously needs help with her kids, so she’s signing up for this clan. That’s my take on it.
They never really delved into why a new wife and at this time. they just say “Meri suggested her to Kody”.
I don’t know why they like him so much. Maybe they don’t like him that much, and so they don’t care if he has other wives. It’s a bit odd. They should ask the gals if anything, (God forbid!) happens to Kody are they all going to still live together and be a big family? Are they all going to marry someone else? I do think men like Kody are a bit unusual. Perhaps they like the sexual variety, but it seems like he doesn’t get a lot of time alone. The men I know like to be off by themselves a lot of the time. The last thing they would want are more wives. It’s a pretty fascinating show.
It sounds like TLC is trying to revive a new fad for communes, just like the smart people in the 19th century and in the age of Aquarius. I guess it’s better for us than having all these women converting to Islam like Lauren Booth, but it does seem to indicate that total emancipation of women from all social conventions is losing its appeal.
In the right social, civil, and legal community, 3 or 4 wives would be fine. It may seem that a neutered American male would not be able to do this, but with small changes in law and beliefs and getting women on board, this would not be a problem. I am almost suspecting that the only problem men currently have with handling even a single woman is bad law and social norms created from those laws. Men should not have to listen to the neurosis of the feme americanus half so much as he currently must in order to try to save some portion of the family wealth for his children.
If America fails economically and catastrophically, women will find out where they fit in society. It will be harsh on everyone, but they will understand by needs. Sexy and sex are not enough, not even all that important. And wants mean will come to food or no food, not designer or more expensive designer. I wonder if nunneries will fill up again as well. Choices… those too might simply disappear. What the government can give, it can take away. We may really see, soon.
interesting choice of words in Doom’s comments:
“mastering” women, “handling” women…
Doom, I admit I was half-kidding, suggesting that one wife is more than this poor wimp can handle, and I suspect most other males here were as well.
But you didn’t pick that up, and moved straight into some bizarre social structure musings. And as Tatyana accurately points out, you may have revealed more about your thinking than you actually wanted to.
I think everyone is hoping that you’re not married, actually. The abstract reality you are sure is the actual one which we cowardly thinkers just can’t bear to face, is actually based on movies and sci-fi novels.
AVI – well, some movies are not very far from reality…like Raise the Red Lantern – from difficult times and savage lands… Interesting that men with fantasies of lording over women, making them jump for food and survival never imagine themselves in subservient position. It’s like those teenage girls who fantasize about being a medieval princess, never – her maid.
Doom’s comment, in “the right social, civil, and legal community, 3 or 4 wives would be fine…with small changes in law and beliefs and getting women on board, this would not be a problem,” reminds me of the physics cartoon where one physicist points at a blackboard covered with equations and says, “and here a miracle occurs.”
Can you imagine having the discussion about where to eat with 4 wives? “You pick something because I could eat almost anything.” How about……? No I don’t feel like that. How about……..? No I don’t feel like that. You just know that almost nothing you select is going to be acceptable and you are going to endure 4 wives doing this?
Dennis, if your the guy, you let them pick, be quiet, and just go along to get along…
Two major problems with polygamous culture:
1. You have to get rid of young unmarried men; e.g. send them away to fight for resources and the right to reproduce with women outside the community.
2. Increased risk of in-breeding after fewer generations because there are relatively fewer fathers in the community.
“Men should not have to listen to the neurosis of the feme americanus half so much as he currently must in order to try to save some portion of the family wealth for his children.”
But men don’t want to save some portion for their children. They want to spend it now on a boat (and a vehicle big enough to haul it), season tickets, a “Vegas” night with the guys, and a powertool just like the one they “lost” in their man-cave garage – only newer. It’s only the brutal budgeting of the americanae that ensures the children aren’t eating 10-day-old McDonald’s fries from between the cushions of the couch or car.
Seriously, I don’t think the average American couple has it as “together” as our grands did in some ways. My great-grandfather turned his money over to his wife because he was working in lumber and mining camps. My great-grandmother didn’t have time to be frivolous as they ran the farm, sold butter to local grocers (including price-negotiation), and create a household budget. My grandmother’s “luxury” purchase from her job in a VA hospital (helping elderly Civil War vets at that time) was farm equipment for her husband.
Compared to them, we spend a lot of time and resources on nonsense.
Heck, I can barely even handle a regular relationship with one boyfriend, I can’t even imagine something weird. Like relative marriages, arranged marriages, major-age-difference marriages, mail order marriages, you name it. I do not even see what the attraction is. Relationships are weird enough, no need to go trying to make them weirder!!!
I wished being quiet worked, but alas it doesn’t.
This interest in polygamy is creepy. Where does it come from? I have heard more about polygamy in the last 2 or 3 years than in the previous 30. Is it about anticipating Islamization in the West? Is it about single females in the city competing for and sometimes sharing alpha males? Is it about the decline of monogamy into serial monogamy as a variant of polygamy? Is it about polygamy as the next transgressive frontier after same-sex marriage? Is it coded anti-Mormon propaganda? All of the above?
People are interested for some reason. What is it?