Yahya Sinwar dead? Israel is checking again on his possible death…
Initial DNA Testing has determined that the Leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar was Eliminated by an Israeli Strike this morning against a Hamas Site near the City of Rafah in Southern Gaza.
Question for all: In discussions with friends, what lines of argument have you found most effective in moving people away from support of the Democrats?
Elizabeth Zaroff, my favorite reactor, just did an analysis of this exact video. Check it out.
Sounds like the Elimination of Yahya Sinwar this morning in Southern Gaza, may have been Accidental; with Israeli Soldiers on Patrol claimed to have observed several Armed-Terrorists hiding inside of a nearby Building, leading to a Tank firing a Shell into the Building. It was only after a Search of the Rubble that the Body of Yahya Sinwar was found by the Soldiers.
At the link 3 photos of the deceased body presumed to be Sinwar. These are gruesome pictures, albeit highly conclusive, so be warned if your constitution is averse to such stuff:
GRAPHIC WARNING
Photos out of Gaza on the interwebs purport to document the corpse of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. Is he really dead? We’ll soon know. For early confirmation, watch for an announcement of an official period of mourning from Harvard, Columbia, and UCLA.
That one photo linked to by sdferr sure looks like Sinwar’s left ear, and front teeth look very close…Bad Karma dude!
Noah Pollack makes a point which is both true and, I think, necessary to amplify:
If you are celebrating the elimination of Sinwar, you should also be celebrating the premiership of Bibi Netanyahu. No other Israeli leader would have stayed in the fight this long and achieved this victory. Since weeks after 10/7, the pressure on Israel from the Democratic Party, Europe, the UN, the media, the western foreign policy and political establishment, etc, to cut a deal, to agree to a “ceasefire,” to surrender, has been unrelenting and enormous. And for a full year, the leader of a tiny and vulnerable country has resisted and outmaneuvered the pressure to stop fighting. It’s a remarkable achievement, and it’s the real reason Sinwar is dead.
sdferr, that’s precisely why Obama campaigned against Netanyahu, and why the leftwing Israeli Supreme Court allowed the lawfare against him to go forward. He’s proven to be a strong leader, and the left can’t advance his agenda against a strong leader. Same reason the left can’t tolerate or allow a return to the Presidency of Trump.
Shirehome: From the perspective of most of us here, we feel Neo must have picked the song as a commentary on Kamala’s performance last night. We found her arrogant, angry, and both unable and unwilling to explain her past record or her future policies. An adenoidal lightweight.
However, I think Harris’ performance is highly instructive for answering David Foster’s question of what are effective ways of moving people away from the Democrats. We have to first of all understand how the other side sees things. And this debate is highly instructive.
We know the Dems are going “She did great!” and if it had been Biden in the chair, we would be correct that they are gaslighting us.
But with Kamala, they really believe it. She entered enemy quarters and showed she was unafraid. Late, so they see how little she thinks of them. She didn’t let a beefy stolid white guy trap her into answering any of their stupid questions, oh no. Of course she was angry, being challenged by the likes of Fox News. How perfect to use the occasion to get her message across to the their deluded audiences that it is Donald Trump who is the source all they don’t like!
Her “word salads” are perfect corporate speak. Many wish they could say so little in so many words, fill out the time with so much slipperiness that “Gotcha!” is impossible (Isn’t the real scandal of the 60 minutes sub that Kamala’s answers are so generic they could be switched out?).
Maybe Kamala turned off some men, but not her core supporters because they weren’t watching Fox anyway (I think that’s true?). But it was red meat to the core constituent, the “educated” woman. Unless we tackle the ubiquitous “You go, girl!” mindset, we hand them a victory like we did last night: “Kamala gave those Fox people what for!”
NancyB, your comment illustrates why I’ve never been just like most of the women I’ve known. I think you are like me in wanting substance rather than pure emotion. The women who are applauding Kamala’s performance last night were already going to vote for her. I doubt that she persuaded fence-sitters in large numbers.
Roque Dalton, the illegitimate son of Winnall Dalton, was a Salvadorean poet and left-wing guerilla who was murdered in 1975 in a power play among the guerrillas. At the time, the claim was that Roque Dalton was a CIA agent, a claim that was later proven to be completely bogus. Guerrillas killed one of their own. (Nor was this a “one-off.” In 1983 guerrilla leaders Ana Melida Montes and Salvador Cayetano Carpio were further victims of the guerilla tradition of leadership selection by elimination. Savagery on both sides in that war.)
The reencounter with his father’s family in Tucson did finally occur, but not until some thirty years after his death, when his son Juan José, a Salvadoran journalist, went to Tucson and was warmly received by Winnall Dalton’s descendants, including Fred Ronstadt’s granddaughter (and Roque Dalton’s first cousin, once removed) the singer Linda Ronstadt, who gave him an old portrait of Winnall Dalton Sr. Although he did not live long enough to learn the real story of his parentage, Roque Dalton was asking the right questions. It fell to later generations to begin to answer them.
Interesting twist of history.
Interesting data point on X: Michelle Tandler (81K followers), a former SF liberal who has been wrestling with her political identity for at least a year, says:
“I now have ten good friends who are voting for Trump. This would have been inconceivable to me a few months ago. None cite taxes as a top 3 reason – it’s more about Israel, immigration, economic plan & tech regulation.”
David Foster, that list may contain an answer to your question of what arguments might reach people.
sdferr, on my first click of your link, I saw what appeared to me to be Sinwar’s head. On subsequent clicks, it appears that the link has been taken down- or maybe you have to log in to see it now.
Re arguments to stimulate change. As said earlier, her supporters are seeing this as her being strong and “standing up” to the right. She did that, but the reason she did is the issue: she had to stand up like that because she is a combination of having no actual plan for achieving any of what she says she will do, and she can’t tell us her thoughts on things because they are different from what she said last week or last month. Anything of substance said yesterday would only damage her.
I think it was in a comment on another thread where it was said (or quoted): “You cannot talk a man out of a position that he hadn’t been talked into.” They didn’t start out thinking she was a loser and get convinced she was not, because then you could push them back to the original with facts. But when they just “had” the belief she was good, then talking and facts will not prevail.
I am not a psychologist, just a somewhat schooled dolt, with about 70 years of OJT sociology training. I could be wrong.
Kate, I agree that Kamala wouldn’t have persuaded fence-sitters. But she didn’t put off anyone who supported her knowing only the unending Joy! and Brat! campaigns of the MSM in the last weeks, but who had never seen her in a challenging interview. “Our side” thinks if people would see Kamala in a confrontational setting, her weaknesses would lose her support. But they underestimate the Woman vs. Old White Guy dynamic. She just showed she was a “strong woman.”
After what we saw on October 7th, what those ghouls recorded themselves, I don’t care what the head ghoul looks like, another illustration of how UNWRA needs to be defunded and demolished, I suspected he would have been farther near the Egyptian crossing checkpoint, he may have been,
those were not remotely answers to question, one would accept at an under
graduate level, much less in graduate school, she was challenged a fraction by baier, but not really on the substance of the matter, is mass immigration, a good thing, how much more,
about the pro crime policies that she pioneered in the bay area, of course the grift full employment act, that preferred so called green energy to real energy
carrying over from the last thread, the notion of energy as a scientific concept
probably originated by the Greeks although I could be persuaded otherwise,
The New York Post is now reporting a positive identification making use of dental records on file.
Leaves Leafs!
Green energy, eh wot!?
Sinwar discovered to be on Austin Bay’s “The Wrong Side of Brightness.”
He is mostly mist now?
The Fox interview was classic Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. Brett was surprised at how contentious Harris was and how much she filibustered the ‘interview’. Brett was working on the naive assumption that he would ask questions for which Harris would have no answer. She had no intention of answering any of his questions and in a sense was deviously brilliant how she worked “it’s all Trump’s fault” into every ‘answer’.
It certainly caught me by surprise that such a strategy could be as successful as it was.
Does any American know any more about how a Harris administration would govern? She said she would follow the law when asked about her previous positions on transgender surgery and other controversial positions, but Brett didn’t press her on whether she would work as President to change those laws. Had he pressed her, she wouldn’t have answered, but there is no reason to think she won’t work tirelessly to advance the leftist agenda she ran on in the 2020 Democrat primary.
After all, she has said her values hadn’t changed from what they were back then, in a previous interview.
What do we know? She and the Democrats have tied their success in running against Donald Trump– not the policies that Trump has proposed, but on the idea that Donald Trump is evil. That’s it. And abortion, of course.
Unlike policy, Brett couldn’t ‘fact check’ Harris about the proposition that Trump is evil.
My initial reaction was Brett was too nice, and a tougher questioner would have fared better, but I don’t think it would have made any difference. The ‘interview’ does answer the question whether Harris is smart or not. She was cunning and effective to her base. If there are any undecided voters that care about answers to real problems the country faces, she certainly did nothing to convince them that a Harris administration has any answers.
Perhaps now there will be a release of the hostages along with a release of Hamas prisoners in Israeli jails. Given Sinwar’s history–he was a prisoner in Israeli jails for 2 decades, then released in the lopsided exchange for Shalit, I doubt that Israel will agree to such a lopsided deal. I wouldn’t.
Eventually, 1,027 prisoners were released in a 2011 exchange for Shalit, with Mr. Sinwar returning to Gaza amid a hero’s welcome. He vowed to release those who had been left behind.
In addition, I doubt that Israeli troops will leave the Egypt-Gaza border. Given the utter failure of UN resolution 1701 in demilitarizing southern Lebanon, Israel will have little to no confidence in some “international task force” on the Gaza-Egypt border.
When the pager or bunker buster doesn’t get you – the GRUNT will…
Sinwar was killed by an infantry soldier only 9 months into his service. Wasn’t even in uniform on 7.10. — Israel’s Channel 11
Not special forces, not the Air Force.
A grunt.
sdferr, there is still one photo of the late, lamented, charismatic, austere religious scholar on X. It isn’t as much of a closeup as the lost photo, but both show the gaping hole in the forehead.
@miguel:the notion of energy as a scientific concept
probably originated by the Greeks although I could be persuaded otherwise
It was unquestionably their word, but they would have found the scientific concept it represents to be alien. As would be true of most of the scientific vocabulary derived from them: I’m not sure what Aristotle would have made of adiabatic; he’d have known the literal meaning but been puzzled by the application. Likewise, electron is their word, but it meant “amber”.
There’s an essay, “Uncleftish Beholding” by Poul Anderson, which describes atomic physics using only Anglo-Saxon-derived terms, and besides being entertaining in itself it gives a clearer sense of how scientific words had to be adapted metaphorically from common words. So many of the scientific words are Latin or Greek and since few of use those languages everyday, it’s harder to see. But the essay gives you an idea of how an ancient Greek might react to seeing how his vocabulary has been strained.
It is the bernstonebits that link, and so their tale fastsets how a firststuff behaves and what kinds of bulkbits it can help make. The worldken of this behaving, in all its manifold ways, is called minglingken. Minglingers have found that as the uncleftish tale of the firststuffs (that is, the tale of firststuffs in their kernels) waxes, after a while they begin to show ownships not unlike those of others that went before them. So, for a showdeal, stonestuff (3), glasswortstuff (11), potashstuff (19), redstuff (37), and bluegraystuff (55) can each link with only one uncleft of waterstuff, while coalstuff (6), flintstuff (14), germanstuff (22), tin (50), and lead (82) can each link with four. This is readily seen when all are set forth in what is called the roundaround board of the firststuffs.
When an uncleft or a bulkbit wins one or more bernstonebits above its own, it takes on a backward lading. When it loses one or more, it takes on a forward lading. Such a mote is called a farer, for that the drag between unlike ladings flits it. When bernstonebits flit by themselves, it may be as a bolt of lightning, a spark off some faststanding chunk, or the everyday flow of bernstoneness through wires.
Karmi has said he won’t vote for President Trump because of his position on ending the Russia-Ukraine war. Well that war is likely to end itself, as the attitudes inside Ukraine to accepting a negotiated settlement are changing quickly. The issue is around mobilization of 18-25 year olds.
Sometimes we have to accept that in politics we almost never get all of what we want. In this case, Karmi, you might consider voting for Trump because he is in favor of “taking it to Iran”.
Question for all: In discussions with friends, what lines of argument have you found most effective in moving people away from support of the Democrats?
David+Foster:
I lost 70-80% of my family and friends after I shifted from left to right. I now avoid political discussions with Democrats.
I keep conversation outside of politics. I endeavor to show that, although conservative, I’m not rabidly so, I have other interests, and I am still a decent, loyal fellow.
I wouldn’t say it necessarily works to persuade my Democrat folks away from current Democrat policies. But it doesn’t push them to be more fanatical. The times are fanatical enough for my taste.
____________________________________________
Preach the Gospel at all times; use words if necessary.
–attributed to St. Francis of Assisi
____________________________________________
Maybe it’s a rationalization. I’m trying to play a longer game.
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Yahya Sinwar dead? Israel is checking again on his possible death…
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1846909440286486629
Confidence grows by increments.
Question for all: In discussions with friends, what lines of argument have you found most effective in moving people away from support of the Democrats?
Elizabeth Zaroff, my favorite reactor, just did an analysis of this exact video. Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT5U1EvPY3c
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1846915013174300710
Some accidents turn out to be happy after all!
Neo, did you pick the video for Kamala, after the “interview”
US B-2 stealth bombers pound Houthi weapon bases in Yemen
Quit playing tiddlywinks with the ‘mobsters’ and go after the ‘Mob Boss’…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJvckcwlmw&t=64s
At the link 3 photos of the deceased body presumed to be Sinwar. These are gruesome pictures, albeit highly conclusive, so be warned if your constitution is averse to such stuff:
https://x.com/Doranimated/status/1846895121121288397
That one photo linked to by sdferr sure looks like Sinwar’s left ear, and front teeth look very close…Bad Karma dude!
Noah Pollack makes a point which is both true and, I think, necessary to amplify:
https://x.com/NoahPollak/status/1846933048019001395
sdferr, that’s precisely why Obama campaigned against Netanyahu, and why the leftwing Israeli Supreme Court allowed the lawfare against him to go forward. He’s proven to be a strong leader, and the left can’t advance his agenda against a strong leader. Same reason the left can’t tolerate or allow a return to the Presidency of Trump.
Shirehome: From the perspective of most of us here, we feel Neo must have picked the song as a commentary on Kamala’s performance last night. We found her arrogant, angry, and both unable and unwilling to explain her past record or her future policies. An adenoidal lightweight.
However, I think Harris’ performance is highly instructive for answering David Foster’s question of what are effective ways of moving people away from the Democrats. We have to first of all understand how the other side sees things. And this debate is highly instructive.
We know the Dems are going “She did great!” and if it had been Biden in the chair, we would be correct that they are gaslighting us.
But with Kamala, they really believe it. She entered enemy quarters and showed she was unafraid. Late, so they see how little she thinks of them. She didn’t let a beefy stolid white guy trap her into answering any of their stupid questions, oh no. Of course she was angry, being challenged by the likes of Fox News. How perfect to use the occasion to get her message across to the their deluded audiences that it is Donald Trump who is the source all they don’t like!
Her “word salads” are perfect corporate speak. Many wish they could say so little in so many words, fill out the time with so much slipperiness that “Gotcha!” is impossible (Isn’t the real scandal of the 60 minutes sub that Kamala’s answers are so generic they could be switched out?).
Maybe Kamala turned off some men, but not her core supporters because they weren’t watching Fox anyway (I think that’s true?). But it was red meat to the core constituent, the “educated” woman. Unless we tackle the ubiquitous “You go, girl!” mindset, we hand them a victory like we did last night: “Kamala gave those Fox people what for!”
NancyB, your comment illustrates why I’ve never been just like most of the women I’ve known. I think you are like me in wanting substance rather than pure emotion. The women who are applauding Kamala’s performance last night were already going to vote for her. I doubt that she persuaded fence-sitters in large numbers.
Linda Ronstadt’s hometown is Tuscon, Arizona. In honor of her Mexican background, she released a CD/album of Mexican songs. My favorite: Linda Ronstadt – Rogaciano El Huapanguero (Rogiciano) (Official Lyric Video). Coincidentally, the song is about the death of a beloved singer.
Roque Dalton, the illegitimate son of Winnall Dalton, was a Salvadorean poet and left-wing guerilla who was murdered in 1975 in a power play among the guerrillas. At the time, the claim was that Roque Dalton was a CIA agent, a claim that was later proven to be completely bogus. Guerrillas killed one of their own. (Nor was this a “one-off.” In 1983 guerrilla leaders Ana Melida Montes and Salvador Cayetano Carpio were further victims of the guerilla tradition of leadership selection by elimination. Savagery on both sides in that war.)
It turns out that Roque Dalton was a first cousin first removed of Linda Ronstadt. GRINGO IRACUNDO: Roque Dalton and His Father.
Interesting twist of history.
Interesting data point on X: Michelle Tandler (81K followers), a former SF liberal who has been wrestling with her political identity for at least a year, says:
“I now have ten good friends who are voting for Trump. This would have been inconceivable to me a few months ago. None cite taxes as a top 3 reason – it’s more about Israel, immigration, economic plan & tech regulation.”
(She later corrected it to ’16 good friends’)
As for herself, she’s considering not voting.
https://x.com/michelletandler/status/1846601801031995748
David Foster, that list may contain an answer to your question of what arguments might reach people.
sdferr, on my first click of your link, I saw what appeared to me to be Sinwar’s head. On subsequent clicks, it appears that the link has been taken down- or maybe you have to log in to see it now.
https://x.com/Doranimated/status/1846895121121288397
Re arguments to stimulate change. As said earlier, her supporters are seeing this as her being strong and “standing up” to the right. She did that, but the reason she did is the issue: she had to stand up like that because she is a combination of having no actual plan for achieving any of what she says she will do, and she can’t tell us her thoughts on things because they are different from what she said last week or last month. Anything of substance said yesterday would only damage her.
I think it was in a comment on another thread where it was said (or quoted): “You cannot talk a man out of a position that he hadn’t been talked into.” They didn’t start out thinking she was a loser and get convinced she was not, because then you could push them back to the original with facts. But when they just “had” the belief she was good, then talking and facts will not prevail.
I am not a psychologist, just a somewhat schooled dolt, with about 70 years of OJT sociology training. I could be wrong.
Gringo, we can substitute this facsimile photo, much less distasteful, if needs be:
https://x.com/TheMossadIL/status/1846905287526994183
Kate, I agree that Kamala wouldn’t have persuaded fence-sitters. But she didn’t put off anyone who supported her knowing only the unending Joy! and Brat! campaigns of the MSM in the last weeks, but who had never seen her in a challenging interview. “Our side” thinks if people would see Kamala in a confrontational setting, her weaknesses would lose her support. But they underestimate the Woman vs. Old White Guy dynamic. She just showed she was a “strong woman.”
After what we saw on October 7th, what those ghouls recorded themselves, I don’t care what the head ghoul looks like, another illustration of how UNWRA needs to be defunded and demolished, I suspected he would have been farther near the Egyptian crossing checkpoint, he may have been,
those were not remotely answers to question, one would accept at an under
graduate level, much less in graduate school, she was challenged a fraction by baier, but not really on the substance of the matter, is mass immigration, a good thing, how much more,
about the pro crime policies that she pioneered in the bay area, of course the grift full employment act, that preferred so called green energy to real energy
carrying over from the last thread, the notion of energy as a scientific concept
probably originated by the Greeks although I could be persuaded otherwise,
The New York Post is now reporting a positive identification making use of dental records on file.
LeavesLeafs!Green energy, eh wot!?
Sinwar discovered to be on Austin Bay’s “The Wrong Side of Brightness.”
He is mostly mist now?
The Fox interview was classic Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. Brett was surprised at how contentious Harris was and how much she filibustered the ‘interview’. Brett was working on the naive assumption that he would ask questions for which Harris would have no answer. She had no intention of answering any of his questions and in a sense was deviously brilliant how she worked “it’s all Trump’s fault” into every ‘answer’.
It certainly caught me by surprise that such a strategy could be as successful as it was.
Does any American know any more about how a Harris administration would govern? She said she would follow the law when asked about her previous positions on transgender surgery and other controversial positions, but Brett didn’t press her on whether she would work as President to change those laws. Had he pressed her, she wouldn’t have answered, but there is no reason to think she won’t work tirelessly to advance the leftist agenda she ran on in the 2020 Democrat primary.
After all, she has said her values hadn’t changed from what they were back then, in a previous interview.
What do we know? She and the Democrats have tied their success in running against Donald Trump– not the policies that Trump has proposed, but on the idea that Donald Trump is evil. That’s it. And abortion, of course.
Unlike policy, Brett couldn’t ‘fact check’ Harris about the proposition that Trump is evil.
My initial reaction was Brett was too nice, and a tougher questioner would have fared better, but I don’t think it would have made any difference. The ‘interview’ does answer the question whether Harris is smart or not. She was cunning and effective to her base. If there are any undecided voters that care about answers to real problems the country faces, she certainly did nothing to convince them that a Harris administration has any answers.
Bret Baier: Kamala Harris wanted a ‘viral moment’ and she got it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPO9Ua1ZPFU
Since the WaPo says Sinwar is dead, he must be dead. 🙂
Yahya Sinwar, architect of Hamas massacre in Israel, is killed.
Perhaps now there will be a release of the hostages along with a release of Hamas prisoners in Israeli jails. Given Sinwar’s history–he was a prisoner in Israeli jails for 2 decades, then released in the lopsided exchange for Shalit, I doubt that Israel will agree to such a lopsided deal. I wouldn’t.
In addition, I doubt that Israeli troops will leave the Egypt-Gaza border. Given the utter failure of UN resolution 1701 in demilitarizing southern Lebanon, Israel will have little to no confidence in some “international task force” on the Gaza-Egypt border.
Lipreading the News, Obama talks with Joe edition:
https://x.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1846684133298159702
Fun for shits and giggles only.
When the pager or bunker buster doesn’t get you – the GRUNT will…
sdferr, there is still one photo of the late, lamented, charismatic, austere religious scholar on X. It isn’t as much of a closeup as the lost photo, but both show the gaping hole in the forehead.
https://x.com/EYakoby/status/1846920950362603799
@miguel:the notion of energy as a scientific concept
probably originated by the Greeks although I could be persuaded otherwise
It was unquestionably their word, but they would have found the scientific concept it represents to be alien. As would be true of most of the scientific vocabulary derived from them: I’m not sure what Aristotle would have made of adiabatic; he’d have known the literal meaning but been puzzled by the application. Likewise, electron is their word, but it meant “amber”.
There’s an essay, “Uncleftish Beholding” by Poul Anderson, which describes atomic physics using only Anglo-Saxon-derived terms, and besides being entertaining in itself it gives a clearer sense of how scientific words had to be adapted metaphorically from common words. So many of the scientific words are Latin or Greek and since few of use those languages everyday, it’s harder to see. But the essay gives you an idea of how an ancient Greek might react to seeing how his vocabulary has been strained.
Karmi has said he won’t vote for President Trump because of his position on ending the Russia-Ukraine war. Well that war is likely to end itself, as the attitudes inside Ukraine to accepting a negotiated settlement are changing quickly. The issue is around mobilization of 18-25 year olds.
Sometimes we have to accept that in politics we almost never get all of what we want. In this case, Karmi, you might consider voting for Trump because he is in favor of “taking it to Iran”.
Trump says Israel should take out Iran’s nuclear facilities: ‘That’s the thing you wanna hit’
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-says-israel-should-hit-irans-nuclear-facilities-slamming-bidens-response
Question for all: In discussions with friends, what lines of argument have you found most effective in moving people away from support of the Democrats?
David+Foster:
I lost 70-80% of my family and friends after I shifted from left to right. I now avoid political discussions with Democrats.
I keep conversation outside of politics. I endeavor to show that, although conservative, I’m not rabidly so, I have other interests, and I am still a decent, loyal fellow.
I wouldn’t say it necessarily works to persuade my Democrat folks away from current Democrat policies. But it doesn’t push them to be more fanatical. The times are fanatical enough for my taste.
____________________________________________
Preach the Gospel at all times; use words if necessary.
–attributed to St. Francis of Assisi
____________________________________________
Maybe it’s a rationalization. I’m trying to play a longer game.