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	Comments on: Modern dilemmas: what to do with those empty churches	</title>
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	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2025 06:32:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2025 06:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Decline of European Christianity

I agree with Art Deco on this one. Certainly, there was erosion from the WW I and II, but the real crisis came from the 60s onward.

In Ireland, for instance, the inflection points were in the late 70s/early 80s over contraception and divorce, then in the 90s over Church scandals and abuse.

I visited Ireland in the late 90s. An older man told me that many staunch Irish Catholics lost their faith over the 1992 scandal of Eamonn Casey, Bishop of Galway, who had a long-term affair with an American woman, fathered a son, and supported the son with church funds.

The Irishman&#039;s son, ordinarily a cheerful, level-headed fellow, told me he would happily walk across the street to punch out the Christian Brother who tormented him and his classmates in school.

In Europe and America, Christian authorities often did a poor job of representing Christ. It can&#039;t all be blamed on world wars and secularization.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Decline of European Christianity</p>
<p>I agree with Art Deco on this one. Certainly, there was erosion from the WW I and II, but the real crisis came from the 60s onward.</p>
<p>In Ireland, for instance, the inflection points were in the late 70s/early 80s over contraception and divorce, then in the 90s over Church scandals and abuse.</p>
<p>I visited Ireland in the late 90s. An older man told me that many staunch Irish Catholics lost their faith over the 1992 scandal of Eamonn Casey, Bishop of Galway, who had a long-term affair with an American woman, fathered a son, and supported the son with church funds.</p>
<p>The Irishman&#8217;s son, ordinarily a cheerful, level-headed fellow, told me he would happily walk across the street to punch out the Christian Brother who tormented him and his classmates in school.</p>
<p>In Europe and America, Christian authorities often did a poor job of representing Christ. It can&#8217;t all be blamed on world wars and secularization.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835422</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2025 02:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835422</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I saw the DW article mentioned at probably around the same time that our hostess did. The passing mention of Orthodox churches taking up residence in the odd vacant Lutheran (evang.) or Catholic church building caught my eye, of course. Taking a peek on the map at my old stomping grounds over there, it does look as if an Antiochian community has moved into what used to be a Protestant church of some kind in Fürth, for example. (There was a Methodist church right around there somewhere which I visited one time.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the DW article mentioned at probably around the same time that our hostess did. The passing mention of Orthodox churches taking up residence in the odd vacant Lutheran (evang.) or Catholic church building caught my eye, of course. Taking a peek on the map at my old stomping grounds over there, it does look as if an Antiochian community has moved into what used to be a Protestant church of some kind in Fürth, for example. (There was a Methodist church right around there somewhere which I visited one time.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: AppleBetty		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AppleBetty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 16:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Skillet - O Come, O Come Emmanuel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiErbpZHfbk

Your Love Never Fails - Chris Quilala / Jesus Culture  (and Anthony Skinner)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoezWBPGRAc

Newsboys - God&#039;s Not Dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw

Maverick City Music

(everything)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skillet &#8211; O Come, O Come Emmanuel</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiErbpZHfbk" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiErbpZHfbk</a></p>
<p>Your Love Never Fails &#8211; Chris Quilala / Jesus Culture  (and Anthony Skinner)</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoezWBPGRAc" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoezWBPGRAc</a></p>
<p>Newsboys &#8211; God&#8217;s Not Dead</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw</a></p>
<p>Maverick City Music</p>
<p>(everything)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835384</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 15:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835384</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;A significant number of Europeans lost faith after witnessing one or both (depending on their age) world wars.&lt;/i&gt;
==
I suspect if you pulled together the available data, you&#039;d discover the implosion in Church attendance in Europe began around 1965.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A significant number of Europeans lost faith after witnessing one or both (depending on their age) world wars.</i><br />
==<br />
I suspect if you pulled together the available data, you&#8217;d discover the implosion in Church attendance in Europe began around 1965.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835380</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 14:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835380</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo,

A significant number of Europeans lost faith after witnessing one or both (depending on their age) world wars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo,</p>
<p>A significant number of Europeans lost faith after witnessing one or both (depending on their age) world wars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 12:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This post is about the decline of Christianity in &lt;i&gt;Western Europe&lt;/i&gt;.  All the examples - Germany, and the two poems - are about Western Europe. In the post I also wrote, &quot;I believe that Arnold was speaking of Christianity and of Europe, and he sensed what was coming there or what had already begun.&quot;

In the US, religion is following a somewhat different course so far.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is about the decline of Christianity in <i>Western Europe</i>.  All the examples &#8211; Germany, and the two poems &#8211; are about Western Europe. In the post I also wrote, &#8220;I believe that Arnold was speaking of Christianity and of Europe, and he sensed what was coming there or what had already begun.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the US, religion is following a somewhat different course so far.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835370</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 05:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835370</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I still track the Asbury Outpouring, a Christian revival lasting 16 days in February, 2023 at Asbury University in Kentucky. 

&lt;i&gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Asbury_revival&lt;/i&gt;

Some students stayed after a chapel service, then stayed longer, then people and more people kept coming. They prayed and sang and loved and testified. Eventually 50,000 - 70,000 people came from all over the world to participate. 

Gen Z young were strongly represented. Kevin Brown, president of Asbury U, said:
__________________________________

&lt;i&gt;The very last day that we had a formal service together, I’ll never forget it. Someone stood in front of all these students -- 1,500 Gen Z students in the room -- and said:

&lt;b&gt;You will not be the generation defined by depression, anxiety, addiction, and suicidal ideation.&lt;/b&gt;

And to hear a cry come up from that group -- someone said that if we had the spiritual eyes to see it, we would have seen an altar filled with loosened chains.

That’s my heart. That is the heart of the people around me.

This is a burdened generation, but God wants to use them, and we need to invest in them.

What happened on February 8th was only the catalyst for what’s truly happening.

--&quot;Asbury Awakening&#039;s Impact Ongoing, One Year Later: &#039;An Overwhelming Glimpse of God&#039;&quot;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUjIdbFgAmE&lt;/i&gt;
__________________________________

I wish them well too. Ultimately Christianity is about God and people, not buildings.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still track the Asbury Outpouring, a Christian revival lasting 16 days in February, 2023 at Asbury University in Kentucky. </p>
<p><i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Asbury_revival" rel="nofollow ugc">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Asbury_revival</a></i></p>
<p>Some students stayed after a chapel service, then stayed longer, then people and more people kept coming. They prayed and sang and loved and testified. Eventually 50,000 &#8211; 70,000 people came from all over the world to participate. </p>
<p>Gen Z young were strongly represented. Kevin Brown, president of Asbury U, said:<br />
__________________________________</p>
<p><i>The very last day that we had a formal service together, I’ll never forget it. Someone stood in front of all these students &#8212; 1,500 Gen Z students in the room &#8212; and said:</p>
<p><b>You will not be the generation defined by depression, anxiety, addiction, and suicidal ideation.</b></p>
<p>And to hear a cry come up from that group &#8212; someone said that if we had the spiritual eyes to see it, we would have seen an altar filled with loosened chains.</p>
<p>That’s my heart. That is the heart of the people around me.</p>
<p>This is a burdened generation, but God wants to use them, and we need to invest in them.</p>
<p>What happened on February 8th was only the catalyst for what’s truly happening.</p>
<p>&#8211;&#8220;Asbury Awakening&#8217;s Impact Ongoing, One Year Later: &#8216;An Overwhelming Glimpse of God'&#8221;<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUjIdbFgAmE" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUjIdbFgAmE</a></i><br />
__________________________________</p>
<p>I wish them well too. Ultimately Christianity is about God and people, not buildings.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 05:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;@AesopFan: &lt;/b&gt;...they began converting deserted buildings in strip malls into worship centers.&lt;/i&gt;

In the San Francisco Mission District there were storefront churches, which were just a couple dozen folding chairs in a room and a preacher up front giving a revival-style talk. The attendees were mostly working-class Hispanics.

Back during my born-again phase I poked my head into one of those meetings and stayed for a while. I liked their enthusiasm. I felt good about what they were doing and wished them well. However, I already had a church.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>@AesopFan: </b>&#8230;they began converting deserted buildings in strip malls into worship centers.</i></p>
<p>In the San Francisco Mission District there were storefront churches, which were just a couple dozen folding chairs in a room and a preacher up front giving a revival-style talk. The attendees were mostly working-class Hispanics.</p>
<p>Back during my born-again phase I poked my head into one of those meetings and stayed for a while. I liked their enthusiasm. I felt good about what they were doing and wished them well. However, I already had a church.</p>
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		<title>
		By: R2L		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835366</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R2L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 04:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835366</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Snow on Pine on December 27, 2025 at 12:17 pm:
I had a similar impression during our vacation tour of England in 1990, even earlier than your two decades. 

Kate on December 27, 2025 at 3:15 pm:
&quot;Traditionalist churches in the U.S. are brim-full of young men. There is hope.&quot;
J.J. on December 27, 2025 at 3:10 pm:
&quot;Maybe the revival is in its infancy.&quot;
Perhaps because I read mostly conservative web sites, it seemed to me that we probably were experiencing another (modest?) Great Awakening. Support for Christian practice seemed to be receiving more emphasis than it had in the 2000 to (say) 2018 time span.

I was/am slightly surprised to learn about Catholic churches in Germany, given my top level exposure to the Reformation, etc., suggesting The Church was being minimized or removed at every turn.  On the other hand, my parents were reared in Protestant and Catholic households  (1920&#039;s-30&#039;s) respectively, although by the time they met, dated, and married, they must have lost their faith since they raised us in a nonreligious setting (no church or Sunday school attendance). For some reason I never queried them about how and why they ended up with that belief posture, but kids were mostly just supposed to follow their parent&#039;s guidance.

As buildings with stirring architecture, churches could be converted into &quot;New College&quot; type liberal arts schools with an anti-Woke/CRT emphasis.  Perhaps a &quot;constellation&quot; type campus of several churches across a given region? The internet makes this much more practical than in prior decades.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snow on Pine on December 27, 2025 at 12:17 pm:<br />
I had a similar impression during our vacation tour of England in 1990, even earlier than your two decades. </p>
<p>Kate on December 27, 2025 at 3:15 pm:<br />
&#8220;Traditionalist churches in the U.S. are brim-full of young men. There is hope.&#8221;<br />
J.J. on December 27, 2025 at 3:10 pm:<br />
&#8220;Maybe the revival is in its infancy.&#8221;<br />
Perhaps because I read mostly conservative web sites, it seemed to me that we probably were experiencing another (modest?) Great Awakening. Support for Christian practice seemed to be receiving more emphasis than it had in the 2000 to (say) 2018 time span.</p>
<p>I was/am slightly surprised to learn about Catholic churches in Germany, given my top level exposure to the Reformation, etc., suggesting The Church was being minimized or removed at every turn.  On the other hand, my parents were reared in Protestant and Catholic households  (1920&#8217;s-30&#8217;s) respectively, although by the time they met, dated, and married, they must have lost their faith since they raised us in a nonreligious setting (no church or Sunday school attendance). For some reason I never queried them about how and why they ended up with that belief posture, but kids were mostly just supposed to follow their parent&#8217;s guidance.</p>
<p>As buildings with stirring architecture, churches could be converted into &#8220;New College&#8221; type liberal arts schools with an anti-Woke/CRT emphasis.  Perhaps a &#8220;constellation&#8221; type campus of several churches across a given region? The internet makes this much more practical than in prior decades.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/12/27/modern-dilemmas-what-to-do-with-those-empty-churches/#comment-2835365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2025 03:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=146388#comment-2835365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some hew churches I have attended don&#039;t look like churches.  More like gigantic auditoriums, which they must be to seat the congregations.  Parking is a problem.

Went to one last Easter.  They offered baptism after the service.  Had robes, make-up rooms, towels.  It was going to be full-immersion in a separate room.  Probably a dozen people went there.

They are very busy internally, with small-groups and other organizations.   They are busy in the community.  And they have armed security.

Went to one some years back.  Enormous congregation.  Sermon was good.  It&#039;s hard to look easy and make connected points.  If you were too far from the dais, there was a jumbotron.  Heard when the bought a new set of furniture, they saved $6000 by unloading it themselves.  That&#039;s a lot of furniture.

The old, traditional churches....    They may end up empty but it&#039;s not the end of organized religion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some hew churches I have attended don&#8217;t look like churches.  More like gigantic auditoriums, which they must be to seat the congregations.  Parking is a problem.</p>
<p>Went to one last Easter.  They offered baptism after the service.  Had robes, make-up rooms, towels.  It was going to be full-immersion in a separate room.  Probably a dozen people went there.</p>
<p>They are very busy internally, with small-groups and other organizations.   They are busy in the community.  And they have armed security.</p>
<p>Went to one some years back.  Enormous congregation.  Sermon was good.  It&#8217;s hard to look easy and make connected points.  If you were too far from the dais, there was a jumbotron.  Heard when the bought a new set of furniture, they saved $6000 by unloading it themselves.  That&#8217;s a lot of furniture.</p>
<p>The old, traditional churches&#8230;.    They may end up empty but it&#8217;s not the end of organized religion.</p>
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