Let’s review. On 9-11-2001 nineteen men from Afghanistan hijacked four American airliners and flew them into the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania. The men were members of Al Qaeda, led by a man named Osama bin Laden, and trained at one of dozens of terrorist training camps spread throughout Afghanistan.

Since then America has killed Osama bin Laden, his generals, most of his lieutenants, and thousands of his men. It utterly destroyed every Al Qaeda terrorist camp in Afghanistan and dozens of others around the world. The destruction was so complete that the Al Qaeda organization no longer exists. By the time the American military withdrew the greatest danger to their lives was traffic accidents.

That’s a victory, and a near complete one.

“We didn’t start the Afghan War, but we did win it.”

Seriously? The warfighters may have won every major engagement…just like in Vietnam…but, also just like Vietnam, our political leaders gave up, surrendered, and ordered the military to flee. That’s not what I’d call winning.

“We haven’t started any wars since, arguably, 1898, though given what was known at time time, 1812 is a better figure.”

I guess that depends on what you mean by “starting”, and my point isn’t that we shouldn’t necessarily have been involved in those conflicts (at least some of them anyway) but that when we decide to go to war, we should go to war. Period. Not pussyfoot around war with ROE and “objectives” that preclude our military from winning.

Thank you for the correction, but my overall point stands.

Yes. We saved Saudi Arabia from invasion and conquest by the Iraqi army. That Islam’s holiest land had to be saved by infidels was an insult to Islam, as was our very presence on that land.

”He fought with the Taliban against Russia in Afghanistan…”

He did no such thing. Russia’s invasion of Afghanistan lasted from 1979 to 1989. The Taliban didn’t come into existence until 1994.

”…back when our policy…supported the Taliban…”

In our near 250-year history we have never supported the Taliban.

”…be a bit more circumspect about who we ally with when we start a war we’re not serious about winning.”

We didn’t start the Afghan War, but we did win it.

”Or, better yet, don’t start wars unless we’re serious about winning them.”

We haven’t started any wars since, arguably, 1898, though given what was known at time time, 1812 is a better figure.

“Say this guy was America’s biggest fan. He liked America so much he worked with us in Afghanistan, his own homeland, then came over to America after the abandonment.

Well he’s not going to have the context a lot of natives citizens have but he would be devoted to America. So what if we imagine he was hearing all the fascism talk and how the national guard troops were the new gestapo and this guy took it seriously? If he was willing to fight the totalitarian Taliban in his home nation, why wouldn’t he decide to pick up a gun and fight what everyone is telling him is the same thing in his new nation?

is the man really crazy? Or is he devoted? Sure we might say “he should know all that fascism talk wasn’t serious” but… how would he? Given the circumstances why wouldn’t he take the news at face value and accept their word?”

If they are sufficiently clannish/tribal I would think any move away from that support environment would be made hesitantly and only as a last resort? But the vast majority of us in the US do indeed live very sheltered lives. For which we have just been giving Thanksgiving.

Bin Laden didn’t seem to be very grateful to the assistance we supplied through the ISI, but that apparently the reason why Colonel Imam, and his superiors, worked with us ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ is only true up to a point,
those associates of his, like Hekmatyar or the Haqquanis to cite two examples,
seem to have an animus toward us fromt he beginning, largely because of our secular orientation,

as daniel greenfield has noted, this habit of irregular habits, among these newcomers is not a one off, and the numbers are rather striking, how many men, did it take, to almost strike down the towers, the first time, the Sheikh Rahman cell,

that remark about the late miss beckstrom’s motivation is attributed to pam bondi,

the Haqquanis are largely in charge, along with other factions like the Mehsud clan,of Afghanistan, the ones whose father, grandfather made the first deal with the Company and the ISI,
I think I first heard of him in Bearden’s book about the mole hunt, that went awry,