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	Comments on: On &#8220;progressivism&#8221; and barbarism	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard F Cook		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard F Cook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2025 15:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with Kundera. We are always trying to get back to the Eden before the original sin. The longer I am around (65 now), the more I realize my faith was right. Human systems never succeed. Left, right, conservative, liberal. It&#039;s all a different flavor of failure. 

Reading Seraphim Rose&#039;s book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future was like reading a book from someone looking at the future and describing it to me.


https://www.spring-lake.net/pdfs/religion/ortho-barth/Orthodoxy%20and%20the%20Religion%20of%20t%20-%20Seraphim%20Rose.pdf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Kundera. We are always trying to get back to the Eden before the original sin. The longer I am around (65 now), the more I realize my faith was right. Human systems never succeed. Left, right, conservative, liberal. It&#8217;s all a different flavor of failure. </p>
<p>Reading Seraphim Rose&#8217;s book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future was like reading a book from someone looking at the future and describing it to me.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.spring-lake.net/pdfs/religion/ortho-barth/Orthodoxy%20and%20the%20Religion%20of%20t%20-%20Seraphim%20Rose.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.spring-lake.net/pdfs/religion/ortho-barth/Orthodoxy%20and%20the%20Religion%20of%20t%20-%20Seraphim%20Rose.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: HC68		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HC68]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2025 03:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Another sad truth underlying all this is that freedom and autonomy really are the passion of the few. The majority really do want to be directed, just like they want to be protected… but in modern times they won’t admit it.

Successful conservative movements (like MAGA) walk a line between flattering talk of freedom and “populist” policies that appeal to human nature.

&lt;/blockquote&gt; -- BenDavid

Yes, you have to work with human beings as they are.  Anything else leads you down the dangerous utopian road.

But as Lincoln observed about freedom:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most people really do want freedom, but by the word they mean specific things which often contradict what other people mean by freedom.  You can&#039;t evaluate freedom and tyranny outside the cultural context, and many forms of freedom require things of the surrounding society to be meaningful.

Nobody gets to be autonomous.  Period.  Autonomy and personal freedom and liberty don&#039;t necessarily correlate.  The closest you can come to personal autonomy is a lone existence in the wilderness.  That person is maximally autonomous and his life is likely to be nasty, brutish, and short.

I&#039;ve used this example before:  the &#039;trans&#039; fantasy.  It&#039;s already legal in most places to dress as the opposite sex (at least in your own home or on the public street), to pretend to be the opposite sex.  In that sense, the &#039;trans&#039; people already had full freedom to live their preferred lifestyle.

But it was worthless because for their fantasy of freedom to be fulfilled, other people have to affirm it.  Which conflicts with other&#039;s people&#039;s freedom to not lie about the gender of the trans person.

If I define freedom as being able to drive my car as fast as I want, whenever I want, traffic laws impinge on my freedom.  But people living in a residential area want the freedom not to have a lunatic drive his car through a populated area full of kids and pets and pedestrians at 120 mph.  My freedom to drive as I please conflicts with their freedom to be safe.

Real life is all about these compromises.  Abstract principle is fine as long as it stays abstract, as soon as you&#039;re dealing with the real world the compromises begin.

Which is also why cultural diversity and personal freedom/liberty generally track inversely.  The more culturally homogenous the society, usually the more its members can agree on what freedoms are reasonable and which are not.

It&#039;s not that most people want to be slaves or directed.  It&#039;s that conflicting definitions of freedom are in play.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Another sad truth underlying all this is that freedom and autonomy really are the passion of the few. The majority really do want to be directed, just like they want to be protected… but in modern times they won’t admit it.</p>
<p>Successful conservative movements (like MAGA) walk a line between flattering talk of freedom and “populist” policies that appeal to human nature.</p>
</blockquote>
<p> &#8212; BenDavid</p>
<p>Yes, you have to work with human beings as they are.  Anything else leads you down the dangerous utopian road.</p>
<p>But as Lincoln observed about freedom:</p>
<blockquote><p>We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most people really do want freedom, but by the word they mean specific things which often contradict what other people mean by freedom.  You can&#8217;t evaluate freedom and tyranny outside the cultural context, and many forms of freedom require things of the surrounding society to be meaningful.</p>
<p>Nobody gets to be autonomous.  Period.  Autonomy and personal freedom and liberty don&#8217;t necessarily correlate.  The closest you can come to personal autonomy is a lone existence in the wilderness.  That person is maximally autonomous and his life is likely to be nasty, brutish, and short.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve used this example before:  the &#8216;trans&#8217; fantasy.  It&#8217;s already legal in most places to dress as the opposite sex (at least in your own home or on the public street), to pretend to be the opposite sex.  In that sense, the &#8216;trans&#8217; people already had full freedom to live their preferred lifestyle.</p>
<p>But it was worthless because for their fantasy of freedom to be fulfilled, other people have to affirm it.  Which conflicts with other&#8217;s people&#8217;s freedom to not lie about the gender of the trans person.</p>
<p>If I define freedom as being able to drive my car as fast as I want, whenever I want, traffic laws impinge on my freedom.  But people living in a residential area want the freedom not to have a lunatic drive his car through a populated area full of kids and pets and pedestrians at 120 mph.  My freedom to drive as I please conflicts with their freedom to be safe.</p>
<p>Real life is all about these compromises.  Abstract principle is fine as long as it stays abstract, as soon as you&#8217;re dealing with the real world the compromises begin.</p>
<p>Which is also why cultural diversity and personal freedom/liberty generally track inversely.  The more culturally homogenous the society, usually the more its members can agree on what freedoms are reasonable and which are not.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that most people want to be slaves or directed.  It&#8217;s that conflicting definitions of freedom are in play.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821163</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2025 00:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[PS Mr Kerstein&#039;s post is outstanding. As Neo said: RTWT.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS Mr Kerstein&#8217;s post is outstanding. As Neo said: RTWT.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ miguel - Aside from the astounding ignorance shown by Kaine, he fails to distinguish Which God? and What Rights?
The Muslims may believe that everything comes from their god Allah, but there are not a lot of Rights, as Americans define them, included in that dogma.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ miguel &#8211; Aside from the astounding ignorance shown by Kaine, he fails to distinguish Which God? and What Rights?<br />
The Muslims may believe that everything comes from their god Allah, but there are not a lot of Rights, as Americans define them, included in that dogma.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Mitchell - thank you for the reminder from The Other Adams.

The Democrats are rather annoying in their claim to be the &quot;resistance&quot; or &quot;revolution&quot; when they control the vast majority of the institutions of government and society.
Not having the Presidency and majorities in Congress really sticks in their collective craw, but those are just about the only thing they lack at the moment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mitchell &#8211; thank you for the reminder from The Other Adams.</p>
<p>The Democrats are rather annoying in their claim to be the &#8220;resistance&#8221; or &#8220;revolution&#8221; when they control the vast majority of the institutions of government and society.<br />
Not having the Presidency and majorities in Congress really sticks in their collective craw, but those are just about the only thing they lack at the moment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bill		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2821147</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 23:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2821147</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JJ 11:39 is correct re fighting for our freedom.

The Left is pushing vigorously for a confrontation that I believe will inevitably lead to a shooting war in America. We better be ready for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ 11:39 is correct re fighting for our freedom.</p>
<p>The Left is pushing vigorously for a confrontation that I believe will inevitably lead to a shooting war in America. We better be ready for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mitchell Strand		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2820965</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mitchell Strand]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 18:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2820965</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To paraphrase Samuel Adams (a real revolutionary, by the way), these leftists prefer the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom.

I offer them Samuel Adams&#039; advice from the same quote: &quot;May posterity forget that you were our countrymen.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase Samuel Adams (a real revolutionary, by the way), these leftists prefer the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom.</p>
<p>I offer them Samuel Adams&#8217; advice from the same quote: &#8220;May posterity forget that you were our countrymen.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2820954</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 17:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2820954</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We really dodged a bullet

https://www.theblaze.com/news/tim-kaine-shockingly-compares-the-declaration-of-independence-to-iran-s-theocratic-regime-extremely-troubling?utm_source=theblaze-]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We really dodged a bullet</p>
<p><a href="https://www.theblaze.com/news/tim-kaine-shockingly-compares-the-declaration-of-independence-to-iran-s-theocratic-regime-extremely-troubling?utm_source=theblaze-" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.theblaze.com/news/tim-kaine-shockingly-compares-the-declaration-of-independence-to-iran-s-theocratic-regime-extremely-troubling?utm_source=theblaze-</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: LXE		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2820951</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LXE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 17:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2820951</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Oldflyer
&#062; In my humble opinion, no Conservative or Moderate American should ever use the term Progressive. Regressive is the appropriate term

The core &quot;Progressive&quot; belief is that it is proper to use wartime means to achieve peacetime goals.
I am trying to get the term &quot;mobilizationist&quot; adopted, as it signifies exactly that.
It&#039;s specific, self-explanatory, and isn&#039;t outright judgmental.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Oldflyer<br />
&gt; In my humble opinion, no Conservative or Moderate American should ever use the term Progressive. Regressive is the appropriate term</p>
<p>The core &#8220;Progressive&#8221; belief is that it is proper to use wartime means to achieve peacetime goals.<br />
I am trying to get the term &#8220;mobilizationist&#8221; adopted, as it signifies exactly that.<br />
It&#8217;s specific, self-explanatory, and isn&#8217;t outright judgmental.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AppleBetty		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/09/03/on-progressivism-and-barbarism/#comment-2820948</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AppleBetty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2025 16:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=143729#comment-2820948</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Luke Lea, thank you for making that book very, very affordable.  (Ordered)   Perhaps that&#039;s the economics of Galt&#039;s Gulch.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke Lea, thank you for making that book very, very affordable.  (Ordered)   Perhaps that&#8217;s the economics of Galt&#8217;s Gulch.</p>
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