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	Comments on: Decision time in Iran: what now?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:48:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807688</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 20:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807688</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good point, AD.  Regime change was easy, nation building not so much.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, AD.  Regime change was easy, nation building not so much.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The failed Iraq regime change&lt;/i&gt;
==
What, the Tikriti cousins are back in charge?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The failed Iraq regime change</i><br />
==<br />
What, the Tikriti cousins are back in charge?</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes,		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807626</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes,]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 13:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807626</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think we got around that by invoking article 5 of the NATO charter, also the authorization of use of force, the first one, there were practically no dissenters
so when we started picking up unlawful combatants in Afghanistan and across the border,
the law fare, courtesy of the Levick Group were there was as Devils Advocates, something Deborah Burlingame discovered,

it is said &#039;by deception they do war&#039; is the motto of the institute, nee Mossad, but that is more often the mo of their adversaries see Black September 
later Hezbollah, many of them came from Force 17 arafat&#039;s security detail,  then Hamas, who availed themselves of the charitable umbrella,
that Israel had extended,

on that except Brezhnevite Barbara Lee, I would say Stalinist, but potato potatoe,

there area few members that care about constitutional niceties, even in the GOP caucus, but they could meet in a phone booth, in practical terms, one could really consider elements of the Saudi state to have been the support system for the hijackers as it was in Pakistan, but it is the seat of Islam, so that wasn&#039;t going to happen, of course the enemy gets a vote, through their proxies like the IIRO and
Brotherhood extensions like the MSA and other groups,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we got around that by invoking article 5 of the NATO charter, also the authorization of use of force, the first one, there were practically no dissenters<br />
so when we started picking up unlawful combatants in Afghanistan and across the border,<br />
the law fare, courtesy of the Levick Group were there was as Devils Advocates, something Deborah Burlingame discovered,</p>
<p>it is said &#8216;by deception they do war&#8217; is the motto of the institute, nee Mossad, but that is more often the mo of their adversaries see Black September<br />
later Hezbollah, many of them came from Force 17 arafat&#8217;s security detail,  then Hamas, who availed themselves of the charitable umbrella,<br />
that Israel had extended,</p>
<p>on that except Brezhnevite Barbara Lee, I would say Stalinist, but potato potatoe,</p>
<p>there area few members that care about constitutional niceties, even in the GOP caucus, but they could meet in a phone booth, in practical terms, one could really consider elements of the Saudi state to have been the support system for the hijackers as it was in Pakistan, but it is the seat of Islam, so that wasn&#8217;t going to happen, of course the enemy gets a vote, through their proxies like the IIRO and<br />
Brotherhood extensions like the MSA and other groups,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807622</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807622</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Congress having the power to declare war is an issue designed given the Founding Fathers&#039; view of history and their current events.
As far as I can tell, it presumes the Westphalian Model, or Westphalian System were present and always would be.
That is, the idea that sovereign nations are not to be told what to do by other nations about their internal affairs.  No more &quot;free cities&quot; or &quot;imperial grants&quot; or anything of that kind.  Today, every spot of dry land except Antarctica and, arguably, Gaza, is part of a sovereign nation.  Even uninhabited little specks in teh Southern Ocean belong to somebody. Nations are responsible for what they do internationally and for what comes out of them, no matter its form.

This did not presume non-state actors such as al Quaeda, or Hamas, or any other you could name.  No matter their non-state status, they can only be within a sovereign nation.  That&#039;s geography.  And that nation either favors them and supports them but....pretends it&#039;s not them, or has not the power to do anything about it, given internal politics and divisions.
You may recall, shortly after 9-11 when Bush told Astan to give up al Q.  No dice.  So....we went after the latter.  But you can&#039;t invade a sovereign nation!  They haven&#039;t done anything to us!  Speaking of Astan.

No matter how obvious Iran&#039;s support for non-state actors and proxies, no matter how horrid the actions of the latter, Iran was protected by the Westphalian System.  Until it wasn&#039;t.  But, then, to what extent is Iran responsible for the actions of its proxies to an extent that would resemble its regular forces going abroad to kill and destroy?  In the latter case, one might consider declaring war.  Because there would be an enemy.  An evanescent bunch of non-uniformed guys with AKs who can&#039;t be pinned down don&#039;t constitute a regular army from a sovereign nation.  How do you even declare war on them?  What, more than shooting at an attacker from a static defensive position, is &quot;war&quot;, anyway?  Can you chase a bunch of terrorists across a border?

Different times, but I submit that Iran&#039;s proxies have reached the status of actually if not formally equal to their own regular military and thus Iran can be considered formally at war with at least Israel.  And us, considering what they&#039;ve done to us in the past.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congress having the power to declare war is an issue designed given the Founding Fathers&#8217; view of history and their current events.<br />
As far as I can tell, it presumes the Westphalian Model, or Westphalian System were present and always would be.<br />
That is, the idea that sovereign nations are not to be told what to do by other nations about their internal affairs.  No more &#8220;free cities&#8221; or &#8220;imperial grants&#8221; or anything of that kind.  Today, every spot of dry land except Antarctica and, arguably, Gaza, is part of a sovereign nation.  Even uninhabited little specks in teh Southern Ocean belong to somebody. Nations are responsible for what they do internationally and for what comes out of them, no matter its form.</p>
<p>This did not presume non-state actors such as al Quaeda, or Hamas, or any other you could name.  No matter their non-state status, they can only be within a sovereign nation.  That&#8217;s geography.  And that nation either favors them and supports them but&#8230;.pretends it&#8217;s not them, or has not the power to do anything about it, given internal politics and divisions.<br />
You may recall, shortly after 9-11 when Bush told Astan to give up al Q.  No dice.  So&#8230;.we went after the latter.  But you can&#8217;t invade a sovereign nation!  They haven&#8217;t done anything to us!  Speaking of Astan.</p>
<p>No matter how obvious Iran&#8217;s support for non-state actors and proxies, no matter how horrid the actions of the latter, Iran was protected by the Westphalian System.  Until it wasn&#8217;t.  But, then, to what extent is Iran responsible for the actions of its proxies to an extent that would resemble its regular forces going abroad to kill and destroy?  In the latter case, one might consider declaring war.  Because there would be an enemy.  An evanescent bunch of non-uniformed guys with AKs who can&#8217;t be pinned down don&#8217;t constitute a regular army from a sovereign nation.  How do you even declare war on them?  What, more than shooting at an attacker from a static defensive position, is &#8220;war&#8221;, anyway?  Can you chase a bunch of terrorists across a border?</p>
<p>Different times, but I submit that Iran&#8217;s proxies have reached the status of actually if not formally equal to their own regular military and thus Iran can be considered formally at war with at least Israel.  And us, considering what they&#8217;ve done to us in the past.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807620</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807620</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A little dark humor

https://x.com/DavidBCohen1/status/1935882050151891438

Who knew spinal tap would be so illuminating see the ruggles as well]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little dark humor</p>
<p><a href="https://x.com/DavidBCohen1/status/1935882050151891438" rel="nofollow ugc">https://x.com/DavidBCohen1/status/1935882050151891438</a></p>
<p>Who knew spinal tap would be so illuminating see the ruggles as well</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807619</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807619</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Back of the book section

https://pjmedia.com/robert-spencer/2025/06/19/will-this-blow-up-nato-n4940969]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back of the book section</p>
<p><a href="https://pjmedia.com/robert-spencer/2025/06/19/will-this-blow-up-nato-n4940969" rel="nofollow ugc">https://pjmedia.com/robert-spencer/2025/06/19/will-this-blow-up-nato-n4940969</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807603</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 05:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807603</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another possible reason is that any judge who might wish to hogtie Trump in this matter is waiting to see if Congress will be able to hogtie him first (thus obviating the need for “judicial assistance”…).

“Dershowitz to Newsmax: War Powers Act Would Obstruct Trump”—
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/alan-dershowitz-donald-trump-iran/2025/06/19/id/1215718/

Opening grafs:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Constitutional law expert Alan Dershowitz told Newsmax on Thursday that the War Powers Act would unduly hinder President Donald Trump&#039;s ability to threaten Iran into a favorable outcome, acknowledging the issue is a &quot;subtle one.&quot;

Dershowitz joined &quot;The Record With Greta Van Susteren&quot; to discuss a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are looking to limit Trump&#039;s ability to order U.S. strikes on Iran&#039;s nuclear capabilities.…
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Should Congress fail in this attempt, then an “activist” judge may decide to take a shot…]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another possible reason is that any judge who might wish to hogtie Trump in this matter is waiting to see if Congress will be able to hogtie him first (thus obviating the need for “judicial assistance”…).</p>
<p>“Dershowitz to Newsmax: War Powers Act Would Obstruct Trump”—<br />
<a href="https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/alan-dershowitz-donald-trump-iran/2025/06/19/id/1215718/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/alan-dershowitz-donald-trump-iran/2025/06/19/id/1215718/</a></p>
<p>Opening grafs:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Constitutional law expert Alan Dershowitz told Newsmax on Thursday that the War Powers Act would unduly hinder President Donald Trump&#8217;s ability to threaten Iran into a favorable outcome, acknowledging the issue is a &#8220;subtle one.&#8221;</p>
<p>Dershowitz joined &#8220;The Record With Greta Van Susteren&#8221; to discuss a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are looking to limit Trump&#8217;s ability to order U.S. strikes on Iran&#8217;s nuclear capabilities.…
</p></blockquote>
<p>Should Congress fail in this attempt, then an “activist” judge may decide to take a shot…</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 04:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Um, possibly because in THIS case what Trump might decide to do is a PURELY FOREIGN POLICY DECISION—with many precedents—such that any judge who attempts to hogtie POTUS on this issue KNOWS that on appeal (which will be made quickly) the attempt will be quickly and solidly shot down?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, possibly because in THIS case what Trump might decide to do is a PURELY FOREIGN POLICY DECISION—with many precedents—such that any judge who attempts to hogtie POTUS on this issue KNOWS that on appeal (which will be made quickly) the attempt will be quickly and solidly shot down?</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807593</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 02:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807593</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Democrat judges are curiously silent.

Why have there been no Temporary Restraining Orders to prevent Trump from aiding Israel and threatening Iran?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrat judges are curiously silent.</p>
<p>Why have there been no Temporary Restraining Orders to prevent Trump from aiding Israel and threatening Iran?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/06/18/decision-time-in-iran-what-now/#comment-2807566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2025 20:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=142363#comment-2807566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Debaathification was probably needed to some degree but it was done too thoroughly against most of the political class that created a rather strong opposition base for the insurgency the army with Sunni officers but shia enlisted might not have held together but these directives made things worse 

He was a little too cavalier in dismissing the flaws in the intelligence which angered the coalition forces so he chose the SCIRI forces to ally with

The Turks who are not Arabs were able to install a secular regime for a generation or three the pahlevis were organized under similar lines

Egypt under Asisi seems to be threading that needle fwiw]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debaathification was probably needed to some degree but it was done too thoroughly against most of the political class that created a rather strong opposition base for the insurgency the army with Sunni officers but shia enlisted might not have held together but these directives made things worse </p>
<p>He was a little too cavalier in dismissing the flaws in the intelligence which angered the coalition forces so he chose the SCIRI forces to ally with</p>
<p>The Turks who are not Arabs were able to install a secular regime for a generation or three the pahlevis were organized under similar lines</p>
<p>Egypt under Asisi seems to be threading that needle fwiw</p>
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