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	Comments on: Meet the potential 51st state: Alberta	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 18:37:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801746</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 18:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801746</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[miguel cervantes, the US Civil War was actually remarkably civil despite the intensity and span of the conflict. At the end leading Southerners like Jefferson Davis not only kept his life but most of his property as well, obviously slaves excluded.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>miguel cervantes, the US Civil War was actually remarkably civil despite the intensity and span of the conflict. At the end leading Southerners like Jefferson Davis not only kept his life but most of his property as well, obviously slaves excluded.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801741</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 18:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801741</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Alberta secession

The Donald isn&#039;t the only party capable of a Threat and a Big Ask then settle for half.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Alberta secession</p>
<p>The Donald isn&#8217;t the only party capable of a Threat and a Big Ask then settle for half.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801731</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 17:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801731</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Don: &lt;i&gt;There’s evidence that Civil war deaths were considerably higher.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s not just soldiers who die in war. Total number of deaths due to the war, including both soldiers and civilians, is probably under a million though not by so much as to be worth the amount of work needed to establish exactly how different it is. Somewhere in 750K - 1 million.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Don: <i>There’s evidence that Civil war deaths were considerably higher.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just soldiers who die in war. Total number of deaths due to the war, including both soldiers and civilians, is probably under a million though not by so much as to be worth the amount of work needed to establish exactly how different it is. Somewhere in 750K &#8211; 1 million.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801723</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 16:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801723</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[scaled up to today, it&#039;s 6 million dead, they should retire the phrase civil war, because it&#039;s the most savage war, take Spanish Russian Lebanese as examples,

even when you win, like Franco is it really a win, the reverse of course is
also true, there was no good end to the street fighting in 1932 stahlmann the communist would have followed his best leninist practices,

doesn&#039;t always work, Horthy vanquished Bela Kun after the brief instance of power]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>scaled up to today, it&#8217;s 6 million dead, they should retire the phrase civil war, because it&#8217;s the most savage war, take Spanish Russian Lebanese as examples,</p>
<p>even when you win, like Franco is it really a win, the reverse of course is<br />
also true, there was no good end to the street fighting in 1932 stahlmann the communist would have followed his best leninist practices,</p>
<p>doesn&#8217;t always work, Horthy vanquished Bela Kun after the brief instance of power</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801721</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 16:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801721</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LXE,

I doubt Alberta will join the US if it leaves Canada. But I don&#039;t see a contradiction in it joining the US if it did. It was the South that started the war in the first place, and in any case that was long ago.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LXE,</p>
<p>I doubt Alberta will join the US if it leaves Canada. But I don&#8217;t see a contradiction in it joining the US if it did. It was the South that started the war in the first place, and in any case that was long ago.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801718</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 16:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801718</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om,

There&#039;s evidence that Civil war deaths were considerably higher.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om,</p>
<p>There&#8217;s evidence that Civil war deaths were considerably higher.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801706</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 14:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801706</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Martin&#039;s essay is interesting, to say the least.  But he ideaizes some kind of industrial/rural culture as if it represents all of the province.  But Edmonton is a pretty big city with the cultural and political issues that presents.

I wonder if one could do the same thing about, say, Illinois if you left out Cook County.  I&#039;ve done a lot of miles downstate, and it&#039;s a different world starting maybe thirty miles south of Cook County.  Fat, flat, black soil farm country.  Small towns which seem reasonably prosperous.  Well-kept farm houses.  In fact, you might do one of those calendars with a new one for each month.
Winters are moderate, compared to Alberta, reducing costs for heating compared to further north, and extending the growing season.  They lack cowboys, since the farmland was/is too valuable to have cows wandering about awaiting the roundup.

Check election results by county.  Several years ago, the legislature introduced some stupid anti-gun bills.  One hundred of one hundred and two county sheriffs announced they&#039;d not enforce those bills.

Might make a similar case.  And that stands for a good number of states.  To no purpose at all, in current circumstances.
Just don&#039;t look north, over your shoulder.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin&#8217;s essay is interesting, to say the least.  But he ideaizes some kind of industrial/rural culture as if it represents all of the province.  But Edmonton is a pretty big city with the cultural and political issues that presents.</p>
<p>I wonder if one could do the same thing about, say, Illinois if you left out Cook County.  I&#8217;ve done a lot of miles downstate, and it&#8217;s a different world starting maybe thirty miles south of Cook County.  Fat, flat, black soil farm country.  Small towns which seem reasonably prosperous.  Well-kept farm houses.  In fact, you might do one of those calendars with a new one for each month.<br />
Winters are moderate, compared to Alberta, reducing costs for heating compared to further north, and extending the growing season.  They lack cowboys, since the farmland was/is too valuable to have cows wandering about awaiting the roundup.</p>
<p>Check election results by county.  Several years ago, the legislature introduced some stupid anti-gun bills.  One hundred of one hundred and two county sheriffs announced they&#8217;d not enforce those bills.</p>
<p>Might make a similar case.  And that stands for a good number of states.  To no purpose at all, in current circumstances.<br />
Just don&#8217;t look north, over your shoulder.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801675</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 06:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801675</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Gringo &#038; huxley &#062; the two Ian &#038; Sylvia recordings linked herein have been favorites of mine for a long time, but I haven&#039;t listened to them for years. Thanks for the reminder!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Gringo &amp; huxley &gt; the two Ian &amp; Sylvia recordings linked herein have been favorites of mine for a long time, but I haven&#8217;t listened to them for years. Thanks for the reminder!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art Deco		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art Deco]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2025 00:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801655</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If Quebec or Alberta vote for secession, what the appellate judges have to say isn&#039;t worth squat.  What will matter is if military discipline holds and politicians are willing to use force.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Quebec or Alberta vote for secession, what the appellate judges have to say isn&#8217;t worth squat.  What will matter is if military discipline holds and politicians are willing to use force.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/05/10/meet-the-potential-51st-state-alberta/#comment-2801648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2025 22:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=141684#comment-2801648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interestingly the source neo quoted used selective quotation of the 1998 Canadian Supreme Court secession reference that I also quoted to make it seem like unilateral secession is allowed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 1998, Canada’s Supreme Court issued its landmark Secession Reference. The Court ruled that if a province were to vote clearly and decisively for independence, the federal government would be constitutionally obligated to enter into negotiations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which is true, but the rest of Canada can say no, and then that&#039;s it for legal secession (I already quoted the part that ruled unilateral secession to be illegal and addresses what happens then). I&#039;ll quote the full context:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Quebec could not, despite a clear referendum result, purport to invoke a right of self-determination to dictate the terms of a proposed secession to the other parties to the federation.  The democratic vote, by however strong a majority, would have no legal effect on its own and could not push aside the principles of federalism and the rule of law, the rights of individuals and minorities, or the operation of democracy in the other provinces or in Canada as a whole.  Democratic rights under the Constitution cannot be divorced from constitutional obligations.  Nor, however, can the reverse proposition be accepted: the continued existence and operation of the Canadian constitutional order could not be indifferent to a clear expression of a clear majority of Quebecers that they no longer wish to remain in Canada.  The other provinces and the federal government would have no basis to deny the right of the government of Quebec to pursue secession should a clear majority of the people of Quebec choose that goal, so long as in doing so, Quebec respects the rights of others.  The negotiations that followed such a vote would address the potential act of secession as well as its possible terms should in fact secession proceed.  There would be no conclusions predetermined by law on any issue.  Negotiations would need to address the interests of the other provinces, the federal government and Quebec and indeed the rights of all Canadians both within and outside Quebec, and specifically the rights of minorities.

The negotiation process would require the reconciliation of various rights and obligations by negotiation between two legitimate majorities, namely, the majority of the population of Quebec, and that of Canada as a whole.  A political majority at either level that does not act in accordance with the underlying constitutional principles puts at risk the legitimacy of its exercise of its rights, and the ultimate acceptance of the result by the international community.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Rod Martin&#039;s elisions had to do a lot of lifting there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly the source neo quoted used selective quotation of the 1998 Canadian Supreme Court secession reference that I also quoted to make it seem like unilateral secession is allowed:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 1998, Canada’s Supreme Court issued its landmark Secession Reference. The Court ruled that if a province were to vote clearly and decisively for independence, the federal government would be constitutionally obligated to enter into negotiations.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which is true, but the rest of Canada can say no, and then that&#8217;s it for legal secession (I already quoted the part that ruled unilateral secession to be illegal and addresses what happens then). I&#8217;ll quote the full context:</p>
<blockquote><p>Quebec could not, despite a clear referendum result, purport to invoke a right of self-determination to dictate the terms of a proposed secession to the other parties to the federation.  The democratic vote, by however strong a majority, would have no legal effect on its own and could not push aside the principles of federalism and the rule of law, the rights of individuals and minorities, or the operation of democracy in the other provinces or in Canada as a whole.  Democratic rights under the Constitution cannot be divorced from constitutional obligations.  Nor, however, can the reverse proposition be accepted: the continued existence and operation of the Canadian constitutional order could not be indifferent to a clear expression of a clear majority of Quebecers that they no longer wish to remain in Canada.  The other provinces and the federal government would have no basis to deny the right of the government of Quebec to pursue secession should a clear majority of the people of Quebec choose that goal, so long as in doing so, Quebec respects the rights of others.  The negotiations that followed such a vote would address the potential act of secession as well as its possible terms should in fact secession proceed.  There would be no conclusions predetermined by law on any issue.  Negotiations would need to address the interests of the other provinces, the federal government and Quebec and indeed the rights of all Canadians both within and outside Quebec, and specifically the rights of minorities.</p>
<p>The negotiation process would require the reconciliation of various rights and obligations by negotiation between two legitimate majorities, namely, the majority of the population of Quebec, and that of Canada as a whole.  A political majority at either level that does not act in accordance with the underlying constitutional principles puts at risk the legitimacy of its exercise of its rights, and the ultimate acceptance of the result by the international community.</p></blockquote>
<p>Rod Martin&#8217;s elisions had to do a lot of lifting there.</p>
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