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	Comments on: European &#8220;conservatives&#8221; are not like American conservatives	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2025 07:49:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791398</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2025 07:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791398</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks very much, AF. 
The man is a giant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much, AF.<br />
The man is a giant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791395</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2025 06:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791395</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another post from IntraStellar Stories which IMO is very perceptive.
And she has great illustrations.

https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/where-does-tds-come-from
&quot;Maybe it&#039;s a social contagion and Trump has been turned into a Girardian scapegoat.&quot;

But, &quot;What is a Girardian scapegoat,&quot; I hear you cry.
https://www.imitatio.org/brief-intro]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another post from IntraStellar Stories which IMO is very perceptive.<br />
And she has great illustrations.</p>
<p><a href="https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/where-does-tds-come-from" rel="nofollow ugc">https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/where-does-tds-come-from</a><br />
&#8220;Maybe it&#8217;s a social contagion and Trump has been turned into a Girardian scapegoat.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, &#8220;What is a Girardian scapegoat,&#8221; I hear you cry.<br />
<a href="https://www.imitatio.org/brief-intro" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.imitatio.org/brief-intro</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2025 06:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ David Foster - &quot;I started a discussion at CB about what the real split is in America, whether communitarians vs libertarians or something else.&quot;

It was a very interesting discussion (as usual at CB), and I want to pull out the post you linked to in one of your own comments, which I think captures the real difference in our current political parties, certainly in the US and possibly in more countries, if not world-wide, regardless of labels and campaign hype:
https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/the-politics-of-agency-or-envy

&lt;blockquote&gt;It has been suggested recently that one of the main dividing lines between Democrats and Republicans in this election was their vision of the economy as either a fixed pie (which justifies tax and redistribution) or a growable pie (which justifies investment in entrepreneurship and innovation).

I would argue that there is an even deeper root divergence that explains the two tribes even better.

The deepest philosophical division is now between agency and envy.
...
We made fun of “vibes-based voters” this year, but perhaps what we call vibes is actually a gut-level identification with the essential story-philosophy offered by each campaign. Maybe we should take vibes more seriously, study them more carefully.

Memes were to the campaign vibes what music is to a party: they played a key role in setting the tone: humor, daring, and optimism on the Trump side, fear and dread on the Harris side.

And a lot of what made each campaign powerful was the meta-message of the mood and the vision it painted about the future. Kamala’s final weeks were totally focused on pushing the fear of a future Nazi regime under Trump. And underpinning that, a sense of impending victimhood — very consistent with the politics of envy and disempowerment.

Can the entire election be reduced to vibes over issues? No, of course not. Some people do care about issues; there are still single-issue voters out there, and some people really do vote on the economy. But the economic data can be manipulated depending on who is telling the story, so even there, it comes down to narrative and story.

Storytellers twist, spin, and weaponize the issues to promote a philosophy and a worldview. In this case, one was dystopian and the other was inspiring.

So much flows downstream from a worldview. Policy is the concrete enactment of a vision, which in turn is based on how we understand the past and present.

And both of these are based on how we understand human nature itself.

Do we identify primarily as victims, defined mostly by what we don’t have (and what others owe us)?

Or are we beings with positive agency, the capacity to create new realities and do great things?

It looks like America understood itself as the latter and voted accordingly.

The American Dream is back, baby!
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A lot of very interesting stuff is hidden behind the ellipsis, so RTWT.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ David Foster &#8211; &#8220;I started a discussion at CB about what the real split is in America, whether communitarians vs libertarians or something else.&#8221;</p>
<p>It was a very interesting discussion (as usual at CB), and I want to pull out the post you linked to in one of your own comments, which I think captures the real difference in our current political parties, certainly in the US and possibly in more countries, if not world-wide, regardless of labels and campaign hype:<br />
<a href="https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/the-politics-of-agency-or-envy" rel="nofollow ugc">https://intrastellar.substack.com/p/the-politics-of-agency-or-envy</a></p>
<blockquote><p>It has been suggested recently that one of the main dividing lines between Democrats and Republicans in this election was their vision of the economy as either a fixed pie (which justifies tax and redistribution) or a growable pie (which justifies investment in entrepreneurship and innovation).</p>
<p>I would argue that there is an even deeper root divergence that explains the two tribes even better.</p>
<p>The deepest philosophical division is now between agency and envy.<br />
&#8230;<br />
We made fun of “vibes-based voters” this year, but perhaps what we call vibes is actually a gut-level identification with the essential story-philosophy offered by each campaign. Maybe we should take vibes more seriously, study them more carefully.</p>
<p>Memes were to the campaign vibes what music is to a party: they played a key role in setting the tone: humor, daring, and optimism on the Trump side, fear and dread on the Harris side.</p>
<p>And a lot of what made each campaign powerful was the meta-message of the mood and the vision it painted about the future. Kamala’s final weeks were totally focused on pushing the fear of a future Nazi regime under Trump. And underpinning that, a sense of impending victimhood — very consistent with the politics of envy and disempowerment.</p>
<p>Can the entire election be reduced to vibes over issues? No, of course not. Some people do care about issues; there are still single-issue voters out there, and some people really do vote on the economy. But the economic data can be manipulated depending on who is telling the story, so even there, it comes down to narrative and story.</p>
<p>Storytellers twist, spin, and weaponize the issues to promote a philosophy and a worldview. In this case, one was dystopian and the other was inspiring.</p>
<p>So much flows downstream from a worldview. Policy is the concrete enactment of a vision, which in turn is based on how we understand the past and present.</p>
<p>And both of these are based on how we understand human nature itself.</p>
<p>Do we identify primarily as victims, defined mostly by what we don’t have (and what others owe us)?</p>
<p>Or are we beings with positive agency, the capacity to create new realities and do great things?</p>
<p>It looks like America understood itself as the latter and voted accordingly.</p>
<p>The American Dream is back, baby!
</p></blockquote>
<p>A lot of very interesting stuff is hidden behind the ellipsis, so RTWT.</p>
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		<title>
		By: that guy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791341</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[that guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 20:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791341</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;In the not-so-very-distant past, Europeans have picked “creatures” far worse than Trump, and presently several European countries are FAR more broken than the US.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

• High praise indeed]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;In the not-so-very-distant past, Europeans have picked “creatures” far worse than Trump, and presently several European countries are FAR more broken than the US.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>• High praise indeed</p>
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		<title>
		By: Don		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 19:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It looks to me like the UK is in much worse shape than the US; we saved ourselves by electing Trump, while in the UK the horrid LP is in charge and the conservative party allowed illegal immigration to import more Muslims while going all in on green energy nonsense.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks to me like the UK is in much worse shape than the US; we saved ourselves by electing Trump, while in the UK the horrid LP is in charge and the conservative party allowed illegal immigration to import more Muslims while going all in on green energy nonsense.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791335</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791335</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A lot of foreign academics spend a lot of time in the US, sometimes because they live and work here and sometimes for conferences and whatnot. What I noticed about them is that what they saw of the US and the rest of the world was always the same thing over and over again: a college town full of academics, a giant university in a giant city, or a conference center full of academics, usually near decent hotels and restaurants.

It was very easy for them to develop skewed perspectives as a result.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of foreign academics spend a lot of time in the US, sometimes because they live and work here and sometimes for conferences and whatnot. What I noticed about them is that what they saw of the US and the rest of the world was always the same thing over and over again: a college town full of academics, a giant university in a giant city, or a conference center full of academics, usually near decent hotels and restaurants.</p>
<p>It was very easy for them to develop skewed perspectives as a result.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dax		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re Turtler&#039;s rebuttal of David Clayton: would the Brits call this &quot;paddle whacks&quot;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Turtler&#8217;s rebuttal of David Clayton: would the Brits call this &#8220;paddle whacks&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hate and demonization can be such useful narcotics….

(Hallucinogens?)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate and demonization can be such useful narcotics….</p>
<p>(Hallucinogens?)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791326</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 16:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791326</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I remember that quixotic exercise, however I also remember they were able to take Ahia, as the residents call it, in 2006, because of a Week candidate, and one of Soro&#039;s first attempts at the Secretary of State project, who helped steal it for Obama in 2008, they don&#039;t ever concede the doubled down, the one we considered a fool, like Howard Dean, was put in charge and his nutroots flying monkeys, were harvested to that goal a whole catalog of characters like Johan Hari, of the independent, found new gigs, the likes of Markos Moutitsas, harnessed his hatred he had exhibited after the Fallujah Bridge incident, his became the go too Salon for every Dem primary candidate,


for every step forward in 2004 and 2010, there are retreats in 2018 and 2020

they used every trick in the book to steal back power including the blood price of a million dead, the circumstances of same are too suspicious to really ignore,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember that quixotic exercise, however I also remember they were able to take Ahia, as the residents call it, in 2006, because of a Week candidate, and one of Soro&#8217;s first attempts at the Secretary of State project, who helped steal it for Obama in 2008, they don&#8217;t ever concede the doubled down, the one we considered a fool, like Howard Dean, was put in charge and his nutroots flying monkeys, were harvested to that goal a whole catalog of characters like Johan Hari, of the independent, found new gigs, the likes of Markos Moutitsas, harnessed his hatred he had exhibited after the Fallujah Bridge incident, his became the go too Salon for every Dem primary candidate,</p>
<p>for every step forward in 2004 and 2010, there are retreats in 2018 and 2020</p>
<p>they used every trick in the book to steal back power including the blood price of a million dead, the circumstances of same are too suspicious to really ignore,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gringo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2025/03/05/european-conservatives-are-not-like-american-conservatives/#comment-2791325</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gringo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thenewneo.com/?p=140495#comment-2791325</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Clayton is a member-in-full-standing of what I would call the Eurosneers. I encountered some when I used to comment on Venezuelan blogs. In short, they believe they know all about the USA, when their actual knowledge is very scanty. I recall one Eurosneer informing me that Americans who enlisted in the Armed Forces were from the dregs of society. To that Eurosneer&#039;s credit, he acknowledged my well-documented refutation.

Many Eurosneers have visited the US. Two weeks in California or New York City are hardly sufficient to get a good grasp of a country with the size and variety of the US. How many Europeans would believe that a two week visit to Europe would give an American a good grasp of Europe? 
 
I will give Mr. Clayton his due: much of what he says can be found in Democrat narratives about US politics. However, ignoring half the US electorate does not give one a good perspective on American politics.


Mr. Clayton’s  ignorant foray into US politics reminds me of a Brit attempt to influence  the 2004 Presidential vote, albeit not from Mr. Clayton’s “conservative” perspective. &lt;a href=&quot;https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Guardian+readers+tell+Clark+County+Ohio+how+it+should+vote&#038;t=h_&#038;ia=web &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Guardian readers tell Clark County Ohio how it should vote. &lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Clayton is a member-in-full-standing of what I would call the Eurosneers. I encountered some when I used to comment on Venezuelan blogs. In short, they believe they know all about the USA, when their actual knowledge is very scanty. I recall one Eurosneer informing me that Americans who enlisted in the Armed Forces were from the dregs of society. To that Eurosneer&#8217;s credit, he acknowledged my well-documented refutation.</p>
<p>Many Eurosneers have visited the US. Two weeks in California or New York City are hardly sufficient to get a good grasp of a country with the size and variety of the US. How many Europeans would believe that a two week visit to Europe would give an American a good grasp of Europe? </p>
<p>I will give Mr. Clayton his due: much of what he says can be found in Democrat narratives about US politics. However, ignoring half the US electorate does not give one a good perspective on American politics.</p>
<p>Mr. Clayton’s  ignorant foray into US politics reminds me of a Brit attempt to influence  the 2004 Presidential vote, albeit not from Mr. Clayton’s “conservative” perspective. <a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Guardian+readers+tell+Clark+County+Ohio+how+it+should+vote&amp;t=h_&amp;ia=web " rel="nofollow ugc">Guardian readers tell Clark County Ohio how it should vote. </a></p>
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