No, he did not. Zelensky publicly stated at least three times the previous week that Ukraine would not sign such a lopsided agreement.

”…possibly at the last minute (on advice from Susan Rice) demanded security guarantees.”

There was nothing last-minute about it. Zelensky has been stating since at least last spring that security guarantees were a minimum requirement to any agreement Ukraine would sign.

I do not have any more knowledge of the intricacies of that event than what I learned in high school world history and a one semester cruise through European history nearly 60 years ago. What I do have are childhood memories of my old but very erudite father railing, and the scrapbook of pictures and momentos he left behind. Dead bodies in fields and ditches labeled “Dead Huns” and “Kaisers Killing Field”. It was all I could do to memorize and pass the history classes, and promptly forget because of the associations.

Now compound that with my only brother, half-brother, who was 17 years my senior. After graduating Christian Brothers boarding school and while at university, he was drafted into the army and ended up in Korea for 2 years. He came back a hulk, sunken eyes, missing teeth, one cigarette after another. They’d put the troops on amphetamines. He was Army Intelligence but that seemed to be worse than front line duty. I’d been given his bedroom above a basement that my father had turned into a bedroom for his return. I would wake up in the middle of the night hearing his screams as our parents would rush down to console him. Like our father he had a brilliant mind, became a Civil War buff and historian, and later in life a city newspaper editor and teacher. But no matter, his scars lasted his lifetime.

Then there’s my mother’s younger brother in WW2…

Then there’s my own Vietnam era crap…which pales in comparison.

And Zelensky wants to keep this shit going?
And Putin wants to keep this shit going?
And who is trying to stop it, to no avail?

WAR – Edwin Starr 1970

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, uhh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y’all
War, huh (good God)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me, oh

War, I despise
‘Cause it means destruction of innocent lives
War means tears to thousands of mother’s eyes
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives

I said, war, huh (good God, y’all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, just say it again
War (whoa), huh (oh Lord)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

It ain’t nothing but a heart-breaker
(War) Friend only to The Undertaker
Oh, war it’s an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die? Oh

War, huh (good God y’all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War (uh-huh), huh (yeah, huh)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

It ain’t nothing but a heart-breaker
(War) It’s got one friend that’s The Undertaker
Oh, war, has shattered many a young man’s dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much too short and precious
To spend fighting wars each day
War can’t give life
It can only take it away, oh

War, huh (good God y’all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, say it again

War (whoa), huh (oh Lord)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me

It ain’t nothing but a heart breaker
(War) Friend only to The Undertaker, woo
Peace, love and understanding, tell me
Is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there’s got to be a better way, oh

War, huh (God y’all)
What is it good for? You tell me (nothing)
Say it, say it, say it, say it

War (good God), huh (now, huh)
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it (nothing)

Nuclear weapons were in Ukrainian possession after the USSR went to sing in the celestial choir.

The USSR was not the same entity as The Russian Federation.

Not rocket surgery.

Did the USSR abide with it’s treaty obligations better than The Russian Federation has?

I’m not sure whether you’re saying you watched the meeting or not.

In case you haven’t, though – I provide my own transcript of one part of the meeting here. It’s the part where Zelensky disagrees with Trump on how much Europe has helped Ukraine. You might be interested – it doesn’t require any viewing of the debacle.

Also, please see this comment of mine which features an excerpt from Zelensky’s September 2024 interview with The New Yorker, where he is critical as well as condescending towards Vance, and somewhat critical and condescending towards Trump although less so. He seems to have not considered that Trump/Vance might win.

If Ukraine had kept them, those weapons would have been dismantled and rebuilt into Ukrainian weapons.

Ukraine never had nuclear weapons. Russia had nuclear weapons on Ukrainian soil, and had control of them from Moscow, just like the US has in other countries. Those weapons were incapable of deterring Russia because they were Russian weapons.

Otay.

My father told very little of his experiences is France in the fall of 1944, weapons platoon machine gunner; what wounded him (mortar), why, because he was standing up. Big divot in his right calf, but stayed in as a MP. A recollection of an MP in Ft. Leavenworth and hanging of a soldier convictred of murder, yep, murderers, rapists, black marketeers in Ft. Leavenworth in the late 1940s. He served for 20 yrs, SFC, when retired in the mid 1960s. His step brother flew in B-24s from Italy. Relatives on my mother’s side fought in the Pacific.

But am I a veteran? Nope, just immersed in the military culture until I went away to college.

If your man doesn’t ride a pony, that’s good to know after hearing crickets for three years.

You write very well.

I’ll thank you then.

My knowledge of war and people, however, isn’t from a text book or from reprinting a grok answer.

Firstly: I don’t use Grok at all. Indeed, I chastised Brian E for using it in lieu of other sources, in part because as someone with a novice’s knowledge of AI and some experience I have ideas on how it can be flatout wrong, and even more on how it can “Flatten” and “remove context” from data.

Secondly: I plead to have no direct knowledge of war, so very much falling into the “textbook” side of the equation. That can’t be said for all the people I work with, which include a number of other veterans.

Thirdly: As even Patton pointed out and as the examination of “lived experiences” shows, one should have a good balance of textbook knowledge and personal experience, precisely because no one person can know or experience everything.

I may be grateful for your service, but that does not mean I am obliged to be quiet in the face of what I see are flawed conclusions or reliance on hideously flawed (even when not outright false) sources like the WSJ’s “expose.”

It’s from lived experience and judging people whom I’ve encountered in real life. I choose not to recount and relive these experiences. But suffice to say, my prejudiced opinion of Zelensky is based on those.

Which is well worth knowing, and why I’m inclined to give some weight to your judgement, especially since it has probably kept you and others alive.

But I notably haven’t based my arguments on the personal sanctity and impeccable personal life of St. Volodymyr Zelenskyy of the Bayraktars, Servant of the People and Defender of All the Rus. I don’t know the man personally (I would also guess you don’t either), and my knowledge of what he has done is flawed and filtered through all kinds of flawed and biased sources, mostly MSM leaning ones. And much of what I *DO* know is unflattering and not something I am inclined to trust. He is an actor after all, and that means he is used to putting on shows and to being stage managed, after all, as we know he has been.

It’s one reason why I am not inclined to trust him unconditionally, even when I think he has a point. And why I also blame him (and while I greatly respect F’s assessment have come to believe Zelenskyy committed far greater faux pas and failures than simply deciding to use English rather than using the buffer of a translator).

But I also recognize that St. Volodymyr is nowhere near as central to the story of the Russo-Ukrainian War as a lot of the pop culture and media present. This war predated his rise to power, and I fear the fundamental problems will remain long after he has gone. I do not put as much stake on his personal credit, morality, honor, or ethics because contra Trump he is not a dictator (at least yet) and even if he was his ability to impact things like the ambitions for greater Russia would be limited.

Zelensky is and will remain a cheap vaudeville entertainer.

I can believe that. Though then again Reagan can be argued to have been an expensive Hollywood entertainer. But in any case that’s also why I work to avoid idolizing him (especially given his disgraceful showing regarding Burisma and here), and I do not structure my arguments around his person.

His role, the role of a lifetime, on or off stage, is that of heroic war hero. He gads about Europe and this country playing the part, with his dark green quasi-military shirt and pants, seeking out photo ops, lunches & dinners, and attending “important” meetings. All the while he’s collecting money, and not just a few lousy tips thrown on stage, but billions and billions.

Which is par for the course and puts him on par with a less (provably) sleazy, nepotistic, and totalitarian loving Madame Mei-ling Chiang/Jiang of justifiable WWII infamy, many sexual scandals, and rampant corruption, who helped con a great many resources out of the US and elsewhere for poor, beleaguered China (and her husband’s secret police, warlord patronage system, and wannabe-Fascist administration). You will not see me have much good to say about the Chinese KMT/GMD under the Chiangs or their conduct in WWII.

But that doesn’t change the fact that as callous and ruthless as they were towards even their own people (far more so than any sane estimate of Zelenskyy), the Japanese and Maoists were worse by several country miles and both were ultimately threats to the US.

Moreover, even if Zelenskyy is ultimately an actor strutting for the camera playing a role in “Servant of the People II: Russian Boogaloo” that doesn’t change the fact that it has occurred to some degree with “live fire stunts.” The stakes for him are probably not as high as for the poor bloody infantry fighting in the trenches at Kursk or Kharkhiv or the partisans operating in the rear, but he still faces death, capture, or exile if things do not work. When even Putin’s closest ally Lukashenko was willing to openly accuse Putin of trying to have him killed, I think that speaks volumes to the reputation and conduct of Putin and his clique.

(For the record, I don’t actually BELIEVE Lukashenko on that score. But the fact that the accusation – easily on par with Trump ordering the murder of a Prime Minister Nigel Farage – is not obviously false I think speaks volumes, and in any case the deployment of the Russian military to Belarus in a defacto occupation also shows how controlling he is).

None of Zelensky’s shtick is real, or rather the facade he’s projecting isn’t real.

That I can believe it. I hesitate to believe that “none” of it is real, given both the reported-and-IMHO-credible reports of Russian assassination attempts on him and the mundane horrors of visiting a combat zone.

But in any case your point is well made, and I largely agree. Zelenskyy is no Sgt Rock. He is not a soldier or the war hero. His persona is stage managed by a host of propagandists and spindoctors from around the world to try and create the ideal of the patriotic Churchillian underdog regardless of if he is actually that. It’s also why I certainly can’t write off accusations there

The death and destruction he’s overseeing is, however. Without it his role will end.

Sure, but then that means he and his spindoctors have to try and craft and cast for a new role. Perhaps “Machiavellian Political Mastermind” or “Hard-Nosed Peace Maker” or “Elder Statesman.” Much as we’d expect.

In any case, I think many people overlook how while his “heroic war hero” casting role is the “role of a lifetime” and probably one he’ll be remembered for most, it wasn’t his initial one. He and his political circle upended Poroshenko by playing “Mr. Smithskyy goes to WashintKyiv”, “Wide-Eyed Idealistic Political Outsider Reformist and Peacemaker who would make a Deal to Stop the War.”**

How true THAT role or collection of roles is eludes me, just as much as it does much else. If I had to wager my life, I’d guess it was somewhat closer to reality than the “Heroic War Hero” role. And in some level it doesn’t matter, as that role didn’t pan out well as the Russian government consistently went off “script” with things like refusing the grand bargain of a Donbas Plebicite.

To be honest I don’t know Zelenskyy’s soul. I also am willing to bet I have less of an intuitive grasp of it than you do, and that he is definitely not Churchill. But on some level I think it doesn’t matter that much. The war’s at best only partially about him.

That sums of why I called Zelensky an evil runt who lives off war and enjoys it.

Lives off war I can believe it. As for enjoying it that’s another issue.

He just proved it in spades by sabotaging the beginnings of a peace settlement.

I disdain Zelenskyy for how he has treated Trump and a very generous US, and in particular this ill-fated cockamanie attempt to get more concessions during a substanceless PR shoot in the White House. But as far as “sabotaging the beginnings of a peace settlement” I don’t fault him for that as much as I do sabotaging the possible reconciliation with Trump.

But he is a product of the post-Minsk “peace settlement” and saw what that got Ukraine, and also has ample reason to believe the new one will leave Ukraine in an even worse state. He also just has to look in his “Near Abroad” to Moldova, Georgia, and Belarus for possible fates.

In any case he has his roles to play. I believe he played it quite badly with his temper tantrum during the visits here (though I agree with Neo that nobody played their part as well as they should have). He did a disservice to himself, his country, Trump, and the US.

But he can still be an evil runt and egotistical, selfish, sociopathically indifferent to destruction vaudeville crisis actor and still have a point about Putin being a terrorist, perfidious, untrustworthy, and vocally hostile to his country’s existence.

After all, whoever is managing him picked him in part because they believed he could say that forcibly.

What did he do after being ejected from the White House and told to leave the country? Go on Fox and get before the cameras for one last photo op.

Indeed, which irked me. But it makes a certain amount of sense. After all, photo ops and narrative control are a key part of war, and the White House meeting was supposed to be its own (very different from what happened) photo op. In any case I care less about Zelenskyy than I do what people he represents, and in particular how the war in Ukraine reflects and impacts American interests.

And I say this as someone who was vocally willing to sacrifice Ukraine to the Kremlin’s tender mercies if it was a choice between saving Ukraine and saving the US from its foreign and domestic enemies. But if I’m going to do that, I think it’s worth keeping our eyes open. And even if Zelenskyy is a discount Madame Chiang for the digital age, that doesn’t mean he is as hostile to US interests as Ukraine’s enemies (most of whom are also ours) getting their way.

om, my man doesn’t ride a pony. Sometimes it’s not either/or, but a pox on both.

Agreed, but I think there are limits to how far that can go. In a just world we’d be able to cast a pox on the Right KMT under Chiang, the Left KMT under Wang, the Comintern goons under Borodin and Mao, and the various cliques of Japanese warlords. And to some degree we did. But we couldn’t do so equally.

And crisis actor from Ukrainian vaudeville as Zelenskyy may be, he is still fighting some stern enemies.

As to lived experience, you don’t want to know, it would require a book. And that’s just the brief time spent in the Air Force.

Understandable. I imagine it’d be interesting to read, but I can imagine why you wouldn’t want to deal with it.

As to turtle’s dissertation of WW1, my father, Yes My Father, not grandfather, was in it. I know, perhaps second hand, but know all I need to know and forget about that precious piece of history. It’s why Trump is about ready to cut the cord with the ever feuding, ever fighting assholes.

Sympathies to your father and grandfather.

But as for that being all you need to know and forget about that precious peace of history and why Trump is about ready to cut that cord, I think the issue that is often forgotten is that sometimes it isn’t down to POTUS. In particular people tend to overlook how around the time Wilhelm II and a host of German military leadership – fearful of clashes with the US (both military standoffs in the Pacific and Caribbean and economic ones, with US companies making inroads against major German syndicates) and pushed by their own particular ideological soup began fighting a kind of little known but lethal one sided cold war with the US in Hispanic America (ranging from Mexico to Argentina), and even drew up plans for a “preemptive” war on the US drawn up and redrawn several times in the 1890s and early 1900s.

Wilhelm II and the Admiralty gladly talked about “Copenhagenizing” the United States Navy out of the blue and shelling Wall Street as a grandiose symbol of the Divine Right of Kings against “Anglo-Saxon” and “Jewish” “Capital”, mostly dissuaded from actually enacting any of this due to having more pressing fish to fry.

Sometimes cutting the cord isn’t enough. Sometimes the enemy will be your enemy because they hate you and what you stand for, even half a world away.

It’s telling that Woodrow Wilson was by far the most pro-German President we have ever had in the US, but after half a decade even he was driven up a wall (with the Zimmerman Telegram and the German rejection of the Sussex Pledge being the last straws) and pushed to declare war against his statist, anti-constitutionalist senpais.

That doesn’t mean we need a new Wilson or Putin is the new Kaiser. But it also doesn’t mean he’s not, and that I’d be leery about how effectively we’ll be able to cut the cord.