We don’t get to tell Putin what he learned.

Ukraine, Finland and Sweden have sure shown him what he should have ‘learned’ and/or known before reinvading Ukraine. As you mentioned earlier Putin “had no idea how creaky his military was” and now the entire world knows, Thanks to Ukraine for helping to expose it. Example: Putin calls up dozens of T-55 tanks used as props in Russian films.

If Putin does not achieve that line, he “loses”.

Unless Trump lets Putin ‘Off-the-Hook’ by allowing him to have Ukraine – then Putin has already lost his war with Ukraine. He has helped to unit Europe in ways not seen since WW II – Ditto for NATO. He has exposed his “creaky” military to the world – along with Russia’s inability to conduct modern warfare armored movements, communications, unable to control the air, etc. – and has had to resort to using WW I & II tactics.

Have seen some on the right suggesting that America should allow Putin to save face – IMHO, there is no chance of that ever happening—unless Trump caves to Putin’s demands.

I could see allowing Russia to keep some Ukrainian land, maybe like a choice of Crimea or that troublesome eastern Ukraine area…up to Ukraine tho. Then allowing Ukraine into NATO & the EU immediately—i.e., not waiting the “20 years” that Trump is now proposing.

Some great points ‘n info in you comment…

Hanson’s “russian way of war” included, in WW II, incomprehensible amounts of outside resources. Even that sunk on the way is an incomprehensible amount. At one point, the Russians provided a kind of thank-you memorial to Studebaker for their sturdy trucks which made their supply convoys more effective. Two hundred thousand Studebaker trucks shipped.

Russia isn’t getting that kind of help.

But, presuming Putin thinks he won. Then what? Sweden next? Pshaw (and other disgusting glottal and nasal sounds). The west has all these resources….. Yes, the west does. And, despite that, Putin won, right? His lesson is…. Not my lesson. Not your lesson. Putin’s lesson. We don’t get to tell Putin what he learned.

One may sacrifice pawns as not worth fighting for. One, and then another, and another. Not worth the fighting. But at checkmate time, you either surrender or kick over the board.

We don’t get to tell Putin what he learned.

https://www.steynonline.com/14757/looking-for-an-argument
(h/t Paul Nachman)

Well, as someone once said, “You go to Congress with the Senate Leader you have, not the one you wish you had.”

I listened to the entire podcast, which was excellent — although I don’t like videos, because I can’t look back and “underline” remarks. Their analysis of Thune seems to have a lot of experience behind it, and they are probably correct. As one of them said, “Somebody has to get Susan Collins on-board.”

Which is sad, but true.

As a counter point, though, Not The Bee looks back at Thune’s record, and is not sanguine, due to his extensive anti-Trump remarks.
https://notthebee.com/article/john-thune-of-south-dakota-is-the-new-senate-majority-leader-lets-take-a-look-at-his-greatest-hits

And one of the Tweeters linked by Not The Bee also makes sense:
“Dear Senate, We did not elect you on November 5th just so you can go behind our backs and vote John Thune in behind closed doors. We won’t forget this.”

Although some voters may have elected their Senators for something close to that reason.

Ukraine is losing the war. It’s been reported that 20% of Ukraine’s soldiers have gone AWOL. Russia’s grinding attrition war continues to take ground at an increasing rate.

Ukraine needs to mobilize 500,000 soldiers, but instead have chosen to only mobilize 160,000 which will not give them the ability to stop Russian advances, let alone retake territory.

If Zelensky were to allow elections, he likely wouldn’t win re-election.

CNN spoke to six commanders and officers who are or were until recently fighting or supervising units in the area. All six said desertion and insubordination are becoming a widespread problem, especially among newly recruited soldiers.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/08/europe/ukraine-military-morale-desertion-intl-cmd/index.html

Russia is not Iraq or Afghanistan or even Nazi Germany, in that we can’t go to war with Russia and expect our civilians at home to sleep snug in their beds. Russia can bring the war to us at home. And no one can come up with a way for us to be at war with Russia, but with Russia not at war with us.

That’s about as pro-Russia as it gets. Sounds like Putin or one of his scribes wrote that for you, Niketas Choniates…Jeez!?!

So, America rolls over, and lets Russia have its way with anyone…including England & Israel. Baloney…

It is time to teach Russia a lesson about their historical Modus Operandi of invading and conquering their neighbors.

Colonel-General Ivashov (RUS Retd): ‘On the Eve of War?’ – Appeal of the All-Russian Officers Assembly to the President and Citizens of the Russian Federation. (Make of it what you will…)

New York Post ran similar: “Former top Russian general warns Putin against ‘criminal’ Ukraine invasion”.

Russia and Putin screwed up, and America’s pro-Russia advocates want to let them off the hook…Ditto on the Jeez!?!

Mikhail Khodaryonok: Are dreams of Russia’s expansion possible?

Russia will expand its territory, gathering lands and spaces, because constant expansion is not just one of the ideas, but a genuine existential of our historical existence. This opinion is expressed by individual representatives of the country’s political class.

In their opinion, for centuries the Russian state with its harsh and sedentary political interior was preserved solely due to its tireless striving beyond its own borders. It has long forgotten how, and most likely never knew how, to survive by other means.

External expansion, domestic thinkers believe, serves to relieve the internal tension that accumulates in society and which should in no case be released through liberal experiments.

I have news for you, Niketas Choniates – even rolling over doesn’t work against Russia—as history proves. Sucking up to them won’t work either…

At this point in time – Ukraine has weakened Russia to a great extent. Ukraine has never asked for American boots on the ground, but have asked for air support and permission to hit Russian military target deeper into Russia.

Enough, there is no talking with pro-Russia Americans. They’ll wait, roll over some more, and wait again until America is forced to put boots on the ground in Europe…again, but this time against Russia…

Recognizing this reality is not being pro-Russia. There are very serious risks to escalation that must be considered very carefully. I am not convinced that the venal trough-feeders running our foreign policy over the last four years have thought through those risks.

While Russia certainly is a danger to Ukraine–though apparently they need North Korea’s help–it is ridiculous to think that they meaningfully threaten any nation in the European Union, with four times Russia’s GDP, 50% more population, and nuclear weapons. It’s not 1950 any more. EU military spending was $240 billion in 2022, compared to Russia’s $82 billion. The European Union is more than able to handle any potential threat from Russia. They’re big boys now, more people than we have and the same size economy, just as technologically advanced as we are, with nuclear weapons of their own–and they don’t have to cross an ocean. If they take Russia seriously, they are strong enough to take care of themselves. If they don’t take Russia seriously enough to take care of themselves, we cannot do it for them.

They can and should take care of themselves, and there’s nothing wrong with our helping if they are actually attacked, but neither we, the EU, nor any other nation can take on the responsibility of policing the world, and a nuclear war makes everybody lose everything.

Ukraine’s in a bad spot, not their fault, and I’d be sad to see their 30 years of independence end–if I could wave a magic wand to prevent it I would–but real war between the US and Russia would put them, and everyone else, in a much worse place than they are now. The problem outlined in Thucydides’ Melian Dialogue has not been solved. Some countries are assholes and beat the crap out of smaller countries because they can. We have no cure for this in Ukraine’s case, except to run the risk of an even bigger war that could get all of us killed, even those who took no part in it.

This is a reality that may have to kill a bunch of us to be recognized, but it is real and it will assert itself no matter how loudly one accuses those who mention it of being pro-Putin.