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	Comments on: Tampa&#8217;s vulnerability to Milton	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765909</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Oct 2024 01:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765909</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Richard &#062; &quot;No liability for failing to send rescue efforts.&quot;
Scroll down, it&#039;s a &quot;live feed&quot; post.
13:44 Sarasota 911 is on the verge of shutting down
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13941169/hurricane-milton-path-tracker-tampa.html
&lt;blockquote&gt; Sarasota County officials say the area is on the verge of pausing its 911 service as winds pick up.

Local services will stop when wind speeds hit 45mph. They&#039;re currently at 22mph.

Anyone needing emergency help has been told to call 911.

But police, fire and ambulance services have warned they&#039;ll not be able to respond &#039;until it&#039;s safe for teams to get back on the roads,&#039; the Herald-Tribune reported.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Richard &gt; &#8220;No liability for failing to send rescue efforts.&#8221;<br />
Scroll down, it&#8217;s a &#8220;live feed&#8221; post.<br />
13:44 Sarasota 911 is on the verge of shutting down<br />
<a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13941169/hurricane-milton-path-tracker-tampa.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13941169/hurricane-milton-path-tracker-tampa.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p> Sarasota County officials say the area is on the verge of pausing its 911 service as winds pick up.</p>
<p>Local services will stop when wind speeds hit 45mph. They&#8217;re currently at 22mph.</p>
<p>Anyone needing emergency help has been told to call 911.</p>
<p>But police, fire and ambulance services have warned they&#8217;ll not be able to respond &#8216;until it&#8217;s safe for teams to get back on the roads,&#8217; the Herald-Tribune reported.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765861</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 20:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765861</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the remark about everybody who fails to evacuate will die is a liability issue.  No liability for failing to send rescue efforts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the remark about everybody who fails to evacuate will die is a liability issue.  No liability for failing to send rescue efforts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765827</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765827</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[More videos.
https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/aerial-tour-shows-helene-destruction-in-chimney-rock-marshall-and-biltmore-village/
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
“The French Broad River exceeded its recorded level. It used to be 20 feet — it hit 31,” during Helene flooding, said Scott Stevens, a Civil Air Patrol pilot.

The aerial tour continued to follow the French Broad River back to the south into Asheville, where Biltmore Village took the brunt of the flooding.

“This is the worst natural disaster that’s happened in the recorded history of Ashville,” said Stevens, who’s lived in Asheville for 15 years.
...
Stevens said the Asheville area is known as a “climate haven” with no natural disasters.

“We don’t get tornados, we don’t get earthquakes, we don’t get blizzards, we don’t get hurricanes — but now apparently we do,” Stevens said.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More videos.<br />
<a href="https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/aerial-tour-shows-helene-destruction-in-chimney-rock-marshall-and-biltmore-village/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/aerial-tour-shows-helene-destruction-in-chimney-rock-marshall-and-biltmore-village/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
“The French Broad River exceeded its recorded level. It used to be 20 feet — it hit 31,” during Helene flooding, said Scott Stevens, a Civil Air Patrol pilot.</p>
<p>The aerial tour continued to follow the French Broad River back to the south into Asheville, where Biltmore Village took the brunt of the flooding.</p>
<p>“This is the worst natural disaster that’s happened in the recorded history of Ashville,” said Stevens, who’s lived in Asheville for 15 years.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Stevens said the Asheville area is known as a “climate haven” with no natural disasters.</p>
<p>“We don’t get tornados, we don’t get earthquakes, we don’t get blizzards, we don’t get hurricanes — but now apparently we do,” Stevens said.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The local news affiliate has more updates on other early claims -- which doesn&#039;t definitively establish that the claims are wrong, just that they have been acknowledged and objected to (which also is not the same as &quot;refuting&quot;).
I&#039;ve also excerpted a few details showing some aspects of the disaster.
The pictures are devastating.

https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/stunning-tales-emerge-of-chimney-rock-flooding-officials-refute-bodies-everywhere-rumor-vow-to-rebuild/
&lt;blockquote&gt; Also, while dealing with the destruction, officials have been forced to refute rumors about Chimney Rock, including one claim suggesting federal authorities would condemn the entire town along U.S. 64 to commandeer a valuable lithium mine nearby.
...
Dealing with rumors, Rutherford County officials said Saturday that three people died in the county and earlier this week said there were not “bodies everywhere” in Chimney Rock.
...
In another section of town, the houses that weren’t swept away perch precariously near the edge of a scoured riverbank. It is where the town’s only suspected death — an elderly woman who refused entreaties to evacuate — occurred.
...
“Literally, this river has moved,” village administrator Stephen Duncan said as he drove an Associated Press reporter through the dust-blown wreckage of Chimney Rock Village on Wednesday. “We saw a 1,000-year event. A geological event.”
...
Payne looked down and saw what he estimated to be a 30-foot-high wall of water, tossing car-sized boulders as it raced toward the town. It appeared as if the wave was devouring houses, then spitting them out.

“It’s not water at that point,” Payne said. “It’s mud, this thick concrete-like material, you know what I mean? And whatever it hits, it’s taking.”

A house hit the bridge from which he’d been filming not 20 minutes earlier. The span just “imploded.” Payne later found its steel beams “bent in horseshoe shapes around boulders.”
...
And yet, all around are signs of hope.

Payne — who climbs the rock in full gear each Sept. 11 to honor first responders who died in the Twin Towers attacks — was heartened to see members of the New York City Fire Department in his town helping with door-to-door searches.

“We’re more hard-headed than these rocks are,” said Payne, whose day job is as a site coordinator for a fast-food chain. “So, it’s going to take more than this to scare us off and run us out. It’ll be a while, but we’ll be back. Don’t count us out.”

Outside the Mountain Traders shop, someone has leaned a large wooden Sasquatch cutout against a utility pole, the words “Chimney Rock Strong” painted in bright blue.

When park employees cut their way to the top of the mountain and raised the American flag on Monday, Duncan says the people below cheered, and some wept.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The local news affiliate has more updates on other early claims &#8212; which doesn&#8217;t definitively establish that the claims are wrong, just that they have been acknowledged and objected to (which also is not the same as &#8220;refuting&#8221;).<br />
I&#8217;ve also excerpted a few details showing some aspects of the disaster.<br />
The pictures are devastating.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/stunning-tales-emerge-of-chimney-rock-flooding-officials-refute-bodies-everywhere-rumor-vow-to-rebuild/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.cbs17.com/news/north-carolina-news/stunning-tales-emerge-of-chimney-rock-flooding-officials-refute-bodies-everywhere-rumor-vow-to-rebuild/</a></p>
<blockquote><p> Also, while dealing with the destruction, officials have been forced to refute rumors about Chimney Rock, including one claim suggesting federal authorities would condemn the entire town along U.S. 64 to commandeer a valuable lithium mine nearby.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Dealing with rumors, Rutherford County officials said Saturday that three people died in the county and earlier this week said there were not “bodies everywhere” in Chimney Rock.<br />
&#8230;<br />
In another section of town, the houses that weren’t swept away perch precariously near the edge of a scoured riverbank. It is where the town’s only suspected death — an elderly woman who refused entreaties to evacuate — occurred.<br />
&#8230;<br />
“Literally, this river has moved,” village administrator Stephen Duncan said as he drove an Associated Press reporter through the dust-blown wreckage of Chimney Rock Village on Wednesday. “We saw a 1,000-year event. A geological event.”<br />
&#8230;<br />
Payne looked down and saw what he estimated to be a 30-foot-high wall of water, tossing car-sized boulders as it raced toward the town. It appeared as if the wave was devouring houses, then spitting them out.</p>
<p>“It’s not water at that point,” Payne said. “It’s mud, this thick concrete-like material, you know what I mean? And whatever it hits, it’s taking.”</p>
<p>A house hit the bridge from which he’d been filming not 20 minutes earlier. The span just “imploded.” Payne later found its steel beams “bent in horseshoe shapes around boulders.”<br />
&#8230;<br />
And yet, all around are signs of hope.</p>
<p>Payne — who climbs the rock in full gear each Sept. 11 to honor first responders who died in the Twin Towers attacks — was heartened to see members of the New York City Fire Department in his town helping with door-to-door searches.</p>
<p>“We’re more hard-headed than these rocks are,” said Payne, whose day job is as a site coordinator for a fast-food chain. “So, it’s going to take more than this to scare us off and run us out. It’ll be a while, but we’ll be back. Don’t count us out.”</p>
<p>Outside the Mountain Traders shop, someone has leaned a large wooden Sasquatch cutout against a utility pole, the words “Chimney Rock Strong” painted in bright blue.</p>
<p>When park employees cut their way to the top of the mountain and raised the American flag on Monday, Duncan says the people below cheered, and some wept.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765825</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765825</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Kate &#062; &quot;It seems to have been a mistake, not intentional.&quot;

Thanks for the update; a mistake does just as much damage, though.
It&#039;s sad that we can even entertain intentionality as a possibility, but that&#039;s the position that highly levels of government malfeasance have put us in.

There is still the question of why the chopper pilot didn&#039;t realize he was too close to the ground, and that he didn&#039;t have the right conditions for delivering the generators to that location (and IF that was where they were supposed to be dropped).
That&#039;s what investigations are for, but it&#039;s an unnecessary distraction.

Here&#039;s another story on how FEMA red tape is tying up operations.
I don&#039;t fault the official sending the letter requiring pre-approval to get later reimbursement. I&#039;m sure that&#039;s a FEMA rule, and I can see why it&#039;s usually a good one, but as the sheriff said, “Bureaucracy often interrupts people’s lives, but it should never cost people their lives.” 

https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/nc-sheriff-demands-county-manager-resign-over-red-tape-linked-to-helene-relief-efforts/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kate &gt; &#8220;It seems to have been a mistake, not intentional.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for the update; a mistake does just as much damage, though.<br />
It&#8217;s sad that we can even entertain intentionality as a possibility, but that&#8217;s the position that highly levels of government malfeasance have put us in.</p>
<p>There is still the question of why the chopper pilot didn&#8217;t realize he was too close to the ground, and that he didn&#8217;t have the right conditions for delivering the generators to that location (and IF that was where they were supposed to be dropped).<br />
That&#8217;s what investigations are for, but it&#8217;s an unnecessary distraction.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another story on how FEMA red tape is tying up operations.<br />
I don&#8217;t fault the official sending the letter requiring pre-approval to get later reimbursement. I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s a FEMA rule, and I can see why it&#8217;s usually a good one, but as the sheriff said, “Bureaucracy often interrupts people’s lives, but it should never cost people their lives.” </p>
<p><a href="https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/nc-sheriff-demands-county-manager-resign-over-red-tape-linked-to-helene-relief-efforts/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/nc-sheriff-demands-county-manager-resign-over-red-tape-linked-to-helene-relief-efforts/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee Also		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee Also]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[High Tide for St. Pete is around 6:00 am, which means that the tide will be coming in as Milton makes landfall. Not good -- adds to the hight of the storm surge.  Downtown Tampa and the Davis islands will be in bad shape, but St. Pete is on the Gulf and should be subject to higher storm surges. The worst hit of Tampa should be that peninsula that houses MacDill AF Base. 

Bradenton and Sarasota (especially Bradenton Beach and Longboat Key) are really screwed -- the right front quadrant is supposed to be the worst for a hurricane, and they are right in the path of Milton&#039;s right front quadrant. (The right front quadrant carries higher winds, waves, and storm surge.)

A facebook friend lives near there and still hasn&#039;t finished cleaning up from Helene. And only jus finished cleaning up from, (I think it was) Debbie. He had a store. Insurance is being canceled because of Helene. He is so screwed. And I am sure he is by far not the only one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>High Tide for St. Pete is around 6:00 am, which means that the tide will be coming in as Milton makes landfall. Not good &#8212; adds to the hight of the storm surge.  Downtown Tampa and the Davis islands will be in bad shape, but St. Pete is on the Gulf and should be subject to higher storm surges. The worst hit of Tampa should be that peninsula that houses MacDill AF Base. </p>
<p>Bradenton and Sarasota (especially Bradenton Beach and Longboat Key) are really screwed &#8212; the right front quadrant is supposed to be the worst for a hurricane, and they are right in the path of Milton&#8217;s right front quadrant. (The right front quadrant carries higher winds, waves, and storm surge.)</p>
<p>A facebook friend lives near there and still hasn&#8217;t finished cleaning up from Helene. And only jus finished cleaning up from, (I think it was) Debbie. He had a store. Insurance is being canceled because of Helene. He is so screwed. And I am sure he is by far not the only one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: physicsguy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[physicsguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IO,

My introduction to the area was when my oldest decided to go to Eckerd College.  Downtown St Pete is marvelous.  And the beaches are/were wonderful.

Favorite place to stay was the Magnuson whcih sits right on the bay.  Hope it, and the College survive.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IO,</p>
<p>My introduction to the area was when my oldest decided to go to Eckerd College.  Downtown St Pete is marvelous.  And the beaches are/were wonderful.</p>
<p>Favorite place to stay was the Magnuson whcih sits right on the bay.  Hope it, and the College survive.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IrishOtter49		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765816</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IrishOtter49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765816</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like Tampa. A few years ago I attended a CENTCOM conference in Tampa, where Central Command is headquartered. This was in February, and it was cool enough where we had to wear jackets. I was especially impressed with the all the Cuban-owned cigar shops selling real Cuban cigars. Although I had quit cigars I did, on the occasion of my visit, treat myself to a couple of absolutely delicious stogies, sold by very charming, patriotic Cuban immigrants. I was further impressed by the fact that smoking cigars was permitted in bars. What a civilized place. When I returned home I briefly discussed with Mrs. Otter the possibility of relocating to Tampa. But, alas, it could not be: we both had jobs and family in Chicago. So we relocated to northwest Indiana (aka &quot;The Region&quot;) instead. Which is a very nice place in its own right. But I still like Tampa. I hope it makes it through the storm with minimal damage.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Tampa. A few years ago I attended a CENTCOM conference in Tampa, where Central Command is headquartered. This was in February, and it was cool enough where we had to wear jackets. I was especially impressed with the all the Cuban-owned cigar shops selling real Cuban cigars. Although I had quit cigars I did, on the occasion of my visit, treat myself to a couple of absolutely delicious stogies, sold by very charming, patriotic Cuban immigrants. I was further impressed by the fact that smoking cigars was permitted in bars. What a civilized place. When I returned home I briefly discussed with Mrs. Otter the possibility of relocating to Tampa. But, alas, it could not be: we both had jobs and family in Chicago. So we relocated to northwest Indiana (aka &#8220;The Region&#8221;) instead. Which is a very nice place in its own right. But I still like Tampa. I hope it makes it through the storm with minimal damage.</p>
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		<title>
		By: physicsguy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765798</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[physicsguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765798</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This morning&#039;s 12Z spaghetti tracks have become very consistent with a very narrow spread from Sarasota to Port Charlotte.  Tampa may be spared the devastating surge.  Port Charlotte south will see the most surge.  Of course, small changes of just 10 miles at landfall can really change the surge issue.   Official forecast for Tampa is still 8-12 feet, which I understand given the possibility of a 20 mile shift in track.

Intensity down to Cat 3 at landfall by models.  Satellite this morning shows a ragged eye with an asymmetry with most convection to the east.  Possible drier air and shear coming in to the storm from the west....all better news if continues.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#14L]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This morning&#8217;s 12Z spaghetti tracks have become very consistent with a very narrow spread from Sarasota to Port Charlotte.  Tampa may be spared the devastating surge.  Port Charlotte south will see the most surge.  Of course, small changes of just 10 miles at landfall can really change the surge issue.   Official forecast for Tampa is still 8-12 feet, which I understand given the possibility of a 20 mile shift in track.</p>
<p>Intensity down to Cat 3 at landfall by models.  Satellite this morning shows a ragged eye with an asymmetry with most convection to the east.  Possible drier air and shear coming in to the storm from the west&#8230;.all better news if continues.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#14L" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/#14L</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/08/tampas-vulnerability-to-milton/#comment-2765796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137403#comment-2765796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[FEMA does operate as a patronage mill, sadly. And the help moves very slowly. There are people in eastern NC, apparently unable to take care of it themselves, still waiting for full repairs two years after the hurricane which caused the damage.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FEMA does operate as a patronage mill, sadly. And the help moves very slowly. There are people in eastern NC, apparently unable to take care of it themselves, still waiting for full repairs two years after the hurricane which caused the damage.</p>
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