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	Comments on: Open thread 10/7/2024	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765667</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 15:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765667</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Irish - if I can figure out who Miguel is replying to, which is hard when other comments intervene as they invariably do, I can make a pretty good stab at what he is saying. I don&#039;t get all his references lined up if there isn&#039;t a starting point.
When there is just a cryptic one-liner and a link, I confess to falling for the click-bait.
It&#039;s usually worth the look, but it&#039;s like opening a box of Cracker-jack without knowing what the prize will be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Irish &#8211; if I can figure out who Miguel is replying to, which is hard when other comments intervene as they invariably do, I can make a pretty good stab at what he is saying. I don&#8217;t get all his references lined up if there isn&#8217;t a starting point.<br />
When there is just a cryptic one-liner and a link, I confess to falling for the click-bait.<br />
It&#8217;s usually worth the look, but it&#8217;s like opening a box of Cracker-jack without knowing what the prize will be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IrishOtter49		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765660</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IrishOtter49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 14:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765660</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I understand miguel perfectly. What does that say about me LOL!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand miguel perfectly. What does that say about me LOL!</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 11:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Molly G:

Here, because you asked:

https://pjmedia.com/paula-bolyard/2024/10/07/is-a-diversity-hire-to-blame-for-the-sinking-of-a-100-million-new-zealand-navy-ship-n4933139

Captain Wrong Way Peach Fuzz.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Molly G:</p>
<p>Here, because you asked:</p>
<p><a href="https://pjmedia.com/paula-bolyard/2024/10/07/is-a-diversity-hire-to-blame-for-the-sinking-of-a-100-million-new-zealand-navy-ship-n4933139" rel="nofollow ugc">https://pjmedia.com/paula-bolyard/2024/10/07/is-a-diversity-hire-to-blame-for-the-sinking-of-a-100-million-new-zealand-navy-ship-n4933139</a></p>
<p>Captain Wrong Way Peach Fuzz.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765600</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 02:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765600</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo:

Your analysis of Coates sounds spot-on. Coates got trapped into blaming whites for his pain.

Though white I experienced plenty of emotional trauma and some physical abuse growing up, which I won&#039;t rehash. Somehow, from reading science-fiction, self-help books and Aldous Huxley, and listening to the optimistic messages of sixties, I chose to get smarter and stronger, and not to blame others.

My conservative friends may not understand my fondness for the hippie movement, but it was the first place I felt safe and appreciated. It was there I started healing and growing up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo:</p>
<p>Your analysis of Coates sounds spot-on. Coates got trapped into blaming whites for his pain.</p>
<p>Though white I experienced plenty of emotional trauma and some physical abuse growing up, which I won&#8217;t rehash. Somehow, from reading science-fiction, self-help books and Aldous Huxley, and listening to the optimistic messages of sixties, I chose to get smarter and stronger, and not to blame others.</p>
<p>My conservative friends may not understand my fondness for the hippie movement, but it was the first place I felt safe and appreciated. It was there I started healing and growing up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765589</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 01:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765589</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[huxley:

&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.thenewneo.com/2015/08/15/more-on-ta-nehisi-coates/&quot; rel=&quot;ugc&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s one of several posts&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;ve written about Coates.  That post goes into the issue of his father beating him.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huxley:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.thenewneo.com/2015/08/15/more-on-ta-nehisi-coates/" rel="ugc">Here&#8217;s one of several posts</a> I&#8217;ve written about Coates.  That post goes into the issue of his father beating him.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765587</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765587</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How can you NOT read a post with a headline like this?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/10/07/elon_musk_if_trump_loses_how_long_do_you_think_my_prison_sentence_will_be.html

It&#039;s linked to an interview with Tucker Carlson, so proceed at your own risk.
These are some of the timestamps, for reference.
(0:00) Elon Musk Is All in on Donald Trump
(6:35) Providing Starlink to Victims of Hurricane Helene
(9:22) If Trump Loses, This Is the Last Election
(21:49) The Epstein and Diddy Client List
(33:38) Vaccines
(35:49) The Movement to Decriminalize Crime… pic.twitter.com/jNqB1ThqQz

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) October 7, 2024]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you NOT read a post with a headline like this?<br />
<a href="https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/10/07/elon_musk_if_trump_loses_how_long_do_you_think_my_prison_sentence_will_be.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/10/07/elon_musk_if_trump_loses_how_long_do_you_think_my_prison_sentence_will_be.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s linked to an interview with Tucker Carlson, so proceed at your own risk.<br />
These are some of the timestamps, for reference.<br />
(0:00) Elon Musk Is All in on Donald Trump<br />
(6:35) Providing Starlink to Victims of Hurricane Helene<br />
(9:22) If Trump Loses, This Is the Last Election<br />
(21:49) The Epstein and Diddy Client List<br />
(33:38) Vaccines<br />
(35:49) The Movement to Decriminalize Crime… pic.twitter.com/jNqB1ThqQz</p>
<p>— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) October 7, 2024</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BTW, I think this O&#039;Keefe video has been mentioned in some past thread, but it is apropos to the media situation.  Can anyone doubt that whatever MSNBC pushes is only what helps the Democrats?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgtijsQKrTs
BREAKING: MSNBC Producer Admits MSNBC Is &#039;Doing All They Can to Help’ the Harris Campaign

The woman talking to the mark ( Basel Hamdan, a writer and producer for MSNBC’s show “Ayman,”) is so obvious in her questions, I am amazed he didn&#039;t catch on to her real purpose. Hint: she&#039;s not there because he&#039;s so cute.
Being drunk on a date in these days of undercover journalism is no way to keep your job.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I think this O&#8217;Keefe video has been mentioned in some past thread, but it is apropos to the media situation.  Can anyone doubt that whatever MSNBC pushes is only what helps the Democrats?</p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgtijsQKrTs" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgtijsQKrTs</a><br />
BREAKING: MSNBC Producer Admits MSNBC Is &#8216;Doing All They Can to Help’ the Harris Campaign</p>
<p>The woman talking to the mark ( Basel Hamdan, a writer and producer for MSNBC’s show “Ayman,”) is so obvious in her questions, I am amazed he didn&#8217;t catch on to her real purpose. Hint: she&#8217;s not there because he&#8217;s so cute.<br />
Being drunk on a date in these days of undercover journalism is no way to keep your job.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765581</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765581</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates

Such a small, bitter man. His Black Panther father beat him as a child. White racism. 

It&#039;s a disgrace that the American intellectual elite embraced Coates as they did and still do. 

&quot;Between the World and Me&quot; is a short, terrible book. James Baldwin, he ain&#039;t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Ta-Nehisi Coates</p>
<p>Such a small, bitter man. His Black Panther father beat him as a child. White racism. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a disgrace that the American intellectual elite embraced Coates as they did and still do. </p>
<p>&#8220;Between the World and Me&#8221; is a short, terrible book. James Baldwin, he ain&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765580</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765580</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Barry &#062; “Jen Psaki Wonders Why the Men Who Democrats Used to Call Hitler Won’t Speak Out Against the Man They Currently Call Hitler“—

Sometimes people are delusional, and sometimes they are just propagandists.
Note how Psaki started her video (at the previous link, transcript at LI):
&lt;blockquote&gt; JEN PSAKI: Of course, it is great, it is good to have Republicans like Liz Cheney, and Cassidy Hutchinson, and the more than 100 Republican officials who have endorsed Harris, &lt;b&gt;all speaking out about the fact that one candidate will defend the constitution, and one won’t.&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

When you start off that far removed from reality, you can&#039;t get back.
They have literally (not figuratively) flipped the Constitution&#039;s defenders 180 degrees.

Commenter coyote made the obvious observation -- unless you&#039;re a regular MSDNC viewer.
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
Psaki doesn’t understand why, if they don’t care for Trump, they don’t come out for Harris.

Simple answer: as bad as they might think Trump is, Harris is far worse.

&lt;b&gt;The slyly unstated implication is that if one is bad, the other must be wonderful. &lt;/b&gt;Totally wrong, but pure Josef Goebbels.

Next question.
&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Do I think some of those Republicans currently staying mum might vote for Harris anyway?
Some of them supported Biden IIRC. 
Some registered Republicans ARE voting for Harris (h/t Karmi).
https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/legendary-texas-republican-makes-shocking-harris-trump-prediction-about-afraid-gop-voters.html

But then, some Democrats have moved into the Trump column.

My suggestion: follow the money (who is getting it, and who isn&#039;t, under Biden Inc.)

And then there is this from the LI post:
Reminder: Liz Cheney did not leave the Republican Party. We threw her out. pic.twitter.com/wP06tPg0yv
— Big Fish (@BigFish3000) October 4, 2024]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Barry &gt; “Jen Psaki Wonders Why the Men Who Democrats Used to Call Hitler Won’t Speak Out Against the Man They Currently Call Hitler“—</p>
<p>Sometimes people are delusional, and sometimes they are just propagandists.<br />
Note how Psaki started her video (at the previous link, transcript at LI):</p>
<blockquote><p> JEN PSAKI: Of course, it is great, it is good to have Republicans like Liz Cheney, and Cassidy Hutchinson, and the more than 100 Republican officials who have endorsed Harris, <b>all speaking out about the fact that one candidate will defend the constitution, and one won’t.</b>
</p></blockquote>
<p>When you start off that far removed from reality, you can&#8217;t get back.<br />
They have literally (not figuratively) flipped the Constitution&#8217;s defenders 180 degrees.</p>
<p>Commenter coyote made the obvious observation &#8212; unless you&#8217;re a regular MSDNC viewer.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Psaki doesn’t understand why, if they don’t care for Trump, they don’t come out for Harris.</p>
<p>Simple answer: as bad as they might think Trump is, Harris is far worse.</p>
<p><b>The slyly unstated implication is that if one is bad, the other must be wonderful. </b>Totally wrong, but pure Josef Goebbels.</p>
<p>Next question.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Do I think some of those Republicans currently staying mum might vote for Harris anyway?<br />
Some of them supported Biden IIRC.<br />
Some registered Republicans ARE voting for Harris (h/t Karmi).<br />
<a href="https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/legendary-texas-republican-makes-shocking-harris-trump-prediction-about-afraid-gop-voters.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/10/legendary-texas-republican-makes-shocking-harris-trump-prediction-about-afraid-gop-voters.html</a></p>
<p>But then, some Democrats have moved into the Trump column.</p>
<p>My suggestion: follow the money (who is getting it, and who isn&#8217;t, under Biden Inc.)</p>
<p>And then there is this from the LI post:<br />
Reminder: Liz Cheney did not leave the Republican Party. We threw her out. pic.twitter.com/wP06tPg0yv<br />
— Big Fish (@BigFish3000) October 4, 2024</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/10/07/open-thread-10-5-2024/#comment-2765577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2024 00:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=137312#comment-2765577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Miguel &#062; &quot;Otoh&quot;

Not sure how many hands you are looking at, but thanks for the link -- for context, Dokoupil was interviewing Coates about his new book, and he committed an unforgivable act of journalism: he asked questions.

CBS, in its relentless search for truth, thought that was a bad idea.
On the gripping hand -- for a little more context from that post -- who assigned Dokoupil to do the interview in the first place?
PS The Free Press Editors wrote this, which I think is unusual unity.

https://www.thefp.com/p/cbs-marks-october-7-by-admonishing-tony-dokoupil
&lt;blockquote&gt;  Adrienne Roark, who is in charge of news gathering at the network, began her remarks by saying covering a story like October 7 “requires empathy, respect, and a commitment to truth.” 
...
“This goes way beyond one interview, one comment, one story. This is about preserving the legacy of neutrality and objectivity that is CBS News,” she said. &lt;b&gt;“We want every show to be a place for courageous and robust conversations and discussions.” &lt;/b&gt;
...
Keep in mind that this editorial meeting was held on the one-year anniversary of the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. The harshest thing that Dokoupil said in his interview with Coates was: “If I took your name out of it, took away the awards, and the acclaim, took the cover off the book, the publishing house goes away—the content of that section would not be out of place in the backpack of an extremist.” 

That’s putting it mildly.&lt;b&gt; As our own Coleman Hughes wrote in his review of Coates’s book, it “doesn’t even mention the word Hamas—or Fatah, or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah, or Iran—once. In his telling, the threats don’t exist, only the barriers that Israel erects to contain them.” &lt;/b&gt;

We suppose that has the advantage of eschewing complexity. But this simplistic telling of the Israel-Palestinian conflict omits so much complicating history that it’s no different than a lie. It would be like writing a book about the Civil War that blames the war on the Union without ever mentioning slavery.  

The other thing worth noticing is CBS’s double standard. Here was Gayle King on May 26, 2020, after the news broke that George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police officers. “I am speechless. I am really, really speechless about what we’re seeing on television this morning. It feels to me like open season… and that sometimes it’s not a safe place to be in this country for black men,” she said, holding back tears. 

In the case of King—on the subjects of wokeism, racism, Black Lives Matter, and gun rights—her “lived experience” is an asset to the newsroom. As it should be. &lt;b&gt;But for Dokoupil, his experience as the father of Jewish children who live in Israel, has no place in an interview with an author sharing his cartoonish indictment of the world’s only Jewish state. &lt;/b&gt;

The sad truth is that Coates is not speaking truth to power. He is echoing the new consensus of the powerful.
&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

See also David+Foster on October 7, 2024 at 11:51 am]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Miguel &gt; &#8220;Otoh&#8221;</p>
<p>Not sure how many hands you are looking at, but thanks for the link &#8212; for context, Dokoupil was interviewing Coates about his new book, and he committed an unforgivable act of journalism: he asked questions.</p>
<p>CBS, in its relentless search for truth, thought that was a bad idea.<br />
On the gripping hand &#8212; for a little more context from that post &#8212; who assigned Dokoupil to do the interview in the first place?<br />
PS The Free Press Editors wrote this, which I think is unusual unity.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.thefp.com/p/cbs-marks-october-7-by-admonishing-tony-dokoupil" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.thefp.com/p/cbs-marks-october-7-by-admonishing-tony-dokoupil</a></p>
<blockquote><p>  Adrienne Roark, who is in charge of news gathering at the network, began her remarks by saying covering a story like October 7 “requires empathy, respect, and a commitment to truth.”<br />
&#8230;<br />
“This goes way beyond one interview, one comment, one story. This is about preserving the legacy of neutrality and objectivity that is CBS News,” she said. <b>“We want every show to be a place for courageous and robust conversations and discussions.” </b><br />
&#8230;<br />
Keep in mind that this editorial meeting was held on the one-year anniversary of the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. The harshest thing that Dokoupil said in his interview with Coates was: “If I took your name out of it, took away the awards, and the acclaim, took the cover off the book, the publishing house goes away—the content of that section would not be out of place in the backpack of an extremist.” </p>
<p>That’s putting it mildly.<b> As our own Coleman Hughes wrote in his review of Coates’s book, it “doesn’t even mention the word Hamas—or Fatah, or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah, or Iran—once. In his telling, the threats don’t exist, only the barriers that Israel erects to contain them.” </b></p>
<p>We suppose that has the advantage of eschewing complexity. But this simplistic telling of the Israel-Palestinian conflict omits so much complicating history that it’s no different than a lie. It would be like writing a book about the Civil War that blames the war on the Union without ever mentioning slavery.  </p>
<p>The other thing worth noticing is CBS’s double standard. Here was Gayle King on May 26, 2020, after the news broke that George Floyd was killed by Minneapolis police officers. “I am speechless. I am really, really speechless about what we’re seeing on television this morning. It feels to me like open season… and that sometimes it’s not a safe place to be in this country for black men,” she said, holding back tears. </p>
<p>In the case of King—on the subjects of wokeism, racism, Black Lives Matter, and gun rights—her “lived experience” is an asset to the newsroom. As it should be. <b>But for Dokoupil, his experience as the father of Jewish children who live in Israel, has no place in an interview with an author sharing his cartoonish indictment of the world’s only Jewish state. </b></p>
<p>The sad truth is that Coates is not speaking truth to power. He is echoing the new consensus of the powerful.
</p></blockquote>
<p>See also David+Foster on October 7, 2024 at 11:51 am</p>
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