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	Comments on: Commenter &#8220;AesopFan&#8221; explains my own position vis à vis liberal Democrat friends and family, for the most part	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 02:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Linda S Fox:

That may be true of many people. But I came from a family in which everyone was a Democrat.  I voted solely for Democrats until my mid-50s.  What&#039;s more, I never even THOUGHT of voting for anything but Democrats till then.  Had you told me prior to that that I would change parties in my mid-50s, I would have thought you a lunatic.  That&#039;s how certain I was.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda S Fox:</p>
<p>That may be true of many people. But I came from a family in which everyone was a Democrat.  I voted solely for Democrats until my mid-50s.  What&#8217;s more, I never even THOUGHT of voting for anything but Democrats till then.  Had you told me prior to that that I would change parties in my mid-50s, I would have thought you a lunatic.  That&#8217;s how certain I was.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758351</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 01:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758351</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;By adhering to the group’s values, they attain social acceptance.
Therefore, they would be very unlikely to kick over the traces and again risk social isolation.
Not belong?
Unthinkable!&lt;/i&gt;

Linda S Fox:

Quite so. 

Yet this seems mysterious to many cradle conservatives, who are living out their version of that syllogism.

I was born into a family of beatniks. The first time I smoked pot was at 16 with my mother and uncle. 

Guess what my politics were for most of my life.

Guess what happened when I became conservative.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>By adhering to the group’s values, they attain social acceptance.<br />
Therefore, they would be very unlikely to kick over the traces and again risk social isolation.<br />
Not belong?<br />
Unthinkable!</i></p>
<p>Linda S Fox:</p>
<p>Quite so. </p>
<p>Yet this seems mysterious to many cradle conservatives, who are living out their version of that syllogism.</p>
<p>I was born into a family of beatniks. The first time I smoked pot was at 16 with my mother and uncle. </p>
<p>Guess what my politics were for most of my life.</p>
<p>Guess what happened when I became conservative.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758346</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 01:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758346</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Philip Sells -- my impression would be that people form their initial &quot;ideological position&quot; through your first factor, and change it through your second (see Neo&#039;s change story for her catalyzing response after the acute high-impact realization that the Media she always had trusted lied about a very important thing, followed by research showing the great extent of those lies -- if I summarized that fairly).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Philip Sells &#8212; my impression would be that people form their initial &#8220;ideological position&#8221; through your first factor, and change it through your second (see Neo&#8217;s change story for her catalyzing response after the acute high-impact realization that the Media she always had trusted lied about a very important thing, followed by research showing the great extent of those lies &#8212; if I summarized that fairly).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758342</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 01:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758342</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hello. Linda&#039;s post just above is interesting to me. Maybe there does have to be some kind of strong influence, or particular crystallizing event relatively early in life to saddle one with an especially durable political or ideological viewpoint. I put it that way because the example of academia that she proposes feels more like something in the category of 
    * &#039;chronic/steady-pressure/over longer-term&#039;
as opposed to some factor that might be more 
    * &#039;acutely/short-term/but high-impact&#039;
for someone else.

It will merit some thought.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello. Linda&#8217;s post just above is interesting to me. Maybe there does have to be some kind of strong influence, or particular crystallizing event relatively early in life to saddle one with an especially durable political or ideological viewpoint. I put it that way because the example of academia that she proposes feels more like something in the category of<br />
    * &#8216;chronic/steady-pressure/over longer-term&#8217;<br />
as opposed to some factor that might be more<br />
    * &#8216;acutely/short-term/but high-impact&#8217;<br />
for someone else.</p>
<p>It will merit some thought.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Linda S Fox		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linda S Fox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 00:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My husband, and many our friends (many of them well-educated science teachers, often physics teachers at the top of their field), are the hardest die-hards I know. 
I think a great part is that they formed their opinions early in their life. They may have depended on the mainstream media, they may have been influenced by Leftist professors. Whatever the original circumstances, they calcified their allegiance. 
I think a huge part of it is theat affiliation with the Progressive Left is considered by academics to be the Good Guys. By joining that group, they automatically gain a group who view them favorably. For geeky and nerdy types, this is like attaining Nirvana. No more feeling ill at ease, lost in a crowd, or socially awkward. 
By adhering to the group’s values, they attain social acceptance.
Therefore, they would be very unlikely to kick over the traces and again risk social isolation.
Not belong?
Unthinkable!
I, on the other hand, like Vance, come from working class and hillbillies. I never belonged. Compromise of self is contrary to the values of my family (and may even have a genetic component; it’s the nature of hillbillies to be stiff-necked and unwilling to go along with the crowd).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband, and many our friends (many of them well-educated science teachers, often physics teachers at the top of their field), are the hardest die-hards I know.<br />
I think a great part is that they formed their opinions early in their life. They may have depended on the mainstream media, they may have been influenced by Leftist professors. Whatever the original circumstances, they calcified their allegiance.<br />
I think a huge part of it is theat affiliation with the Progressive Left is considered by academics to be the Good Guys. By joining that group, they automatically gain a group who view them favorably. For geeky and nerdy types, this is like attaining Nirvana. No more feeling ill at ease, lost in a crowd, or socially awkward.<br />
By adhering to the group’s values, they attain social acceptance.<br />
Therefore, they would be very unlikely to kick over the traces and again risk social isolation.<br />
Not belong?<br />
Unthinkable!<br />
I, on the other hand, like Vance, come from working class and hillbillies. I never belonged. Compromise of self is contrary to the values of my family (and may even have a genetic component; it’s the nature of hillbillies to be stiff-necked and unwilling to go along with the crowd).</p>
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		<title>
		By: J.J.		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 22:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[R2L, you make a good point about the need for differences and the competitive drive. I had never thought that deeply about why personalities seem to be DNA derived. 

I was always amazed by the differences between my two brothers and me. Same parents, same house, same schools, same teachers, even a lot of common friends, and yet we were so very different in our personality types.  If nurture was a major factor, wouldn&#039;t we have been more alike?  When I read Pinker&#039;s book, it seemed to answer the questions I had. 

It&#039;s true that without variations in personalities, it would be a rather stagnant world.   We&#039;d all be Starbelly Seeches and that would be that. :-)  

We have two female cats.  They both came from the same litter and have the same coloring. But boy are their personalities different.  More evidence of how personalities are inherited, not created by nurturing.  

I have no doubt that nurturing has a big effect on how a personality type evolves and learns to navigate the world, but the basic &quot;big five&quot; personality traits people inherit don&#039;t change that much.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R2L, you make a good point about the need for differences and the competitive drive. I had never thought that deeply about why personalities seem to be DNA derived. </p>
<p>I was always amazed by the differences between my two brothers and me. Same parents, same house, same schools, same teachers, even a lot of common friends, and yet we were so very different in our personality types.  If nurture was a major factor, wouldn&#8217;t we have been more alike?  When I read Pinker&#8217;s book, it seemed to answer the questions I had. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that without variations in personalities, it would be a rather stagnant world.   We&#8217;d all be Starbelly Seeches and that would be that. 🙂  </p>
<p>We have two female cats.  They both came from the same litter and have the same coloring. But boy are their personalities different.  More evidence of how personalities are inherited, not created by nurturing.  </p>
<p>I have no doubt that nurturing has a big effect on how a personality type evolves and learns to navigate the world, but the basic &#8220;big five&#8221; personality traits people inherit don&#8217;t change that much.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IrishOtter49		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758293</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IrishOtter49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 21:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758293</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo:

I&#039;ll respond to your question by asking three of my own. How have Jews voted in past elections? How have Jews traditionally categorized themselves in the political sense -- as politically liberal or politically (not theologically) conservative? What has traditionally been the ratio of Democrat to Republican Jews?

For what&#039;s it&#039;s worth, in my personal experience the many Jews I have known have voted Democrat and categorized themselves as liberals.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll respond to your question by asking three of my own. How have Jews voted in past elections? How have Jews traditionally categorized themselves in the political sense &#8212; as politically liberal or politically (not theologically) conservative? What has traditionally been the ratio of Democrat to Republican Jews?</p>
<p>For what&#8217;s it&#8217;s worth, in my personal experience the many Jews I have known have voted Democrat and categorized themselves as liberals.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IrishOtter:

I see.

You might be correct, but on what are you basing your opinion? I&#039;ve seen polls that say otherwise.  &lt;a href=&quot;https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/politics-current-affairs/2024/08/the-democrats-can-no-longer-take-the-jewish-vote-for-granted/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;For example&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Pennsylvania, a state where Biden mustered an 81,000-vote victory in 2020, is the swing state with the most Jewish voters: nearly 434,000. . . . A poll commissioned by the Orthodox Union released August 2 showed a startling result: Pennsylvania’s Jewish vote was closely split 49 percent to 42 percent between Harris and Trump—a departure from the Democrats’ historical hold on Jewish voters.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most polls have very few Jews and are unreliable, but this one sounds like it focused on the Jewish vote, at least in Pennsylvania.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IrishOtter:</p>
<p>I see.</p>
<p>You might be correct, but on what are you basing your opinion? I&#8217;ve seen polls that say otherwise.  <a href="https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/politics-current-affairs/2024/08/the-democrats-can-no-longer-take-the-jewish-vote-for-granted/" rel="nofollow ugc">For example</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Pennsylvania, a state where Biden mustered an 81,000-vote victory in 2020, is the swing state with the most Jewish voters: nearly 434,000. . . . A poll commissioned by the Orthodox Union released August 2 showed a startling result: Pennsylvania’s Jewish vote was closely split 49 percent to 42 percent between Harris and Trump—a departure from the Democrats’ historical hold on Jewish voters.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most polls have very few Jews and are unreliable, but this one sounds like it focused on the Jewish vote, at least in Pennsylvania.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IrishOtter49		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758266</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IrishOtter49]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758266</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[neo:

&lt;i&gt; I see little change coming and expect close to 70% of American Jews voting for Harris . . .&lt;/i&gt;

This is what I agree with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo:</p>
<p><i> I see little change coming and expect close to 70% of American Jews voting for Harris . . .</i></p>
<p>This is what I agree with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/08/24/commenter-aesopfan-explains-my-own-position-vis-a-vis-liberal-democrat-friends-and-family-for-the-most-part/#comment-2758265</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 19:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=136403#comment-2758265</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Irish Otter:

Read my comment above this one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irish Otter:</p>
<p>Read my comment above this one.</p>
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