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	Comments on: Open thread 6/13/24	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Brian E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745202</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 03:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745202</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;According to the federal Bureau of Reclamation the yearly value of the Columbia Basin Project is $630 million in irrigated crops, $950 million in power production, $20 million in flood damage prevention, and $50 million in recreation. The project itself involves costs that are difficult to determine.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Doesn&#039;t one of the reactors at Hanford make and sell electricity? 

My wife and I spent last summer following the Mullan Road. It went from Ft. Benton, Montana to Ft. Walla Walla (original location). It was authorized by Congress as a military road-- though it was never used for that purpose. It was a wagon road built around 1860 that opened up Washington to settlers and miners. 20,000 settlers used the road the first year.  It was a main route until the railroad came through in the 1870&#039;s.
Ft. Benton was the uppermost port that could be reached by steamships on the Missouri River.

Not unique that a project was authorized for one purpose-- with the ultimate goal another]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;According to the federal Bureau of Reclamation the yearly value of the Columbia Basin Project is $630 million in irrigated crops, $950 million in power production, $20 million in flood damage prevention, and $50 million in recreation. The project itself involves costs that are difficult to determine.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t one of the reactors at Hanford make and sell electricity? </p>
<p>My wife and I spent last summer following the Mullan Road. It went from Ft. Benton, Montana to Ft. Walla Walla (original location). It was authorized by Congress as a military road&#8211; though it was never used for that purpose. It was a wagon road built around 1860 that opened up Washington to settlers and miners. 20,000 settlers used the road the first year.  It was a main route until the railroad came through in the 1870&#8217;s.<br />
Ft. Benton was the uppermost port that could be reached by steamships on the Missouri River.</p>
<p>Not unique that a project was authorized for one purpose&#8211; with the ultimate goal another</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745194</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 02:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745194</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It was a government works project from the New Dealers, IIRC they had done big dams hydropower back east.  The immediate beneficiary of the hydropower from Grand Coulee Dam was the Manhattan Project.  Making plutonium takes a lot of electricity.

In total eight of the nine plutonium production reactors did not produce any electricity, it came from hydroelectric power.  That electricity also powered aluminum smelters in the Northwest.  More significant economically than irrigated agriculture IMO.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a government works project from the New Dealers, IIRC they had done big dams hydropower back east.  The immediate beneficiary of the hydropower from Grand Coulee Dam was the Manhattan Project.  Making plutonium takes a lot of electricity.</p>
<p>In total eight of the nine plutonium production reactors did not produce any electricity, it came from hydroelectric power.  That electricity also powered aluminum smelters in the Northwest.  More significant economically than irrigated agriculture IMO.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745193</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 02:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745193</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[om, they didn&#039;t need to build a dam the size of Grand Coulee if it&#039;s only purpose was the reclamation project. The water is lifted 500 feet to what is now called Banks Lake.
By the way, the first land irrigated by the project was not by gravity, but by a pumping plant northwest of Pasco that pumped water from the Columbia River to the Pasco Pump Unit. It was started in 1946 and by May 15, 1948 water was delivered to the farms.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>om, they didn&#8217;t need to build a dam the size of Grand Coulee if it&#8217;s only purpose was the reclamation project. The water is lifted 500 feet to what is now called Banks Lake.<br />
By the way, the first land irrigated by the project was not by gravity, but by a pumping plant northwest of Pasco that pumped water from the Columbia River to the Pasco Pump Unit. It was started in 1946 and by May 15, 1948 water was delivered to the farms.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745190</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 01:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745190</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Obesity because of cheap food, could be, or maybe everybody getting zombified by that hand held addiction device and the  abandonment of physical activity?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obesity because of cheap food, could be, or maybe everybody getting zombified by that hand held addiction device and the  abandonment of physical activity?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chases Eagles		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chases Eagles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Columbia Basin Project is not the byproduct of the Grand Coulee Dam. It was the main purpose. Electricity production only became important because of WW2. Only about half the land for the available water is in production. The system is supposed to be much larger.

Wikipedia 
“ After thirteen years of debate, President Franklin D. Roosevelt authorized the dam project with National Industrial Recovery Act money. (It was later specifically authorized by the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1935, and then reauthorized by the Columbia Basin Project Act of 1943 which put it under the Reclamation Project Act of 1939.)[3] Construction of Grand Coulee Dam began in 1933 and was completed in 1942. Its main purpose of pumping water for irrigation was postponed during World War II in favor of electrical power generation that was used for the war effort.”]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Columbia Basin Project is not the byproduct of the Grand Coulee Dam. It was the main purpose. Electricity production only became important because of WW2. Only about half the land for the available water is in production. The system is supposed to be much larger.</p>
<p>Wikipedia<br />
“ After thirteen years of debate, President Franklin D. Roosevelt authorized the dam project with National Industrial Recovery Act money. (It was later specifically authorized by the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1935, and then reauthorized by the Columbia Basin Project Act of 1943 which put it under the Reclamation Project Act of 1939.)[3] Construction of Grand Coulee Dam began in 1933 and was completed in 1942. Its main purpose of pumping water for irrigation was postponed during World War II in favor of electrical power generation that was used for the war effort.”</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I first heard Bernie Sanders use the &quot;Fair Trade, not Free Trade&quot; slogan when he was running for President. I hadn&#039;t heard it before.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first heard Bernie Sanders use the &#8220;Fair Trade, not Free Trade&#8221; slogan when he was running for President. I hadn&#8217;t heard it before.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In so far as other countries practice mercantilism we cant be disarmed 

Bernie is a whole nother class of knavery]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In so far as other countries practice mercantilism we cant be disarmed </p>
<p>Bernie is a whole nother class of knavery</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian E		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian E]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Niketas, food is the only product that we can&#039;t live without.

Living in the byproduct of Grand Coulee Dam-- the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project, where 1/2 million acres is irrigated by a network of canals from the Dam, I have seen both sides of the issue.

Any central planning produces inefficiencies. I remember in the late 80&#039;s the government had a set aside program-- so farmers put marginal land in production for 1 year to qualify-- and then were paid to not grow crops on land that wouldn&#039;t for the most part been planted.

Then I&#039;ve seen bankruptcies as prices dropped below the cost of harvesting.

I think we got rid of the worst of the maladministration. I haven&#039;t been involved for years, so I don&#039;t know the current programs.

Obesity is from processed foods and yes, we need to stifle the corn mafia.

But my point is Ricardo is a nostalgic theory that needs to be put to rest. I can&#039;t believe I&#039;ve abandoned the &quot;Free Trade&quot; chimera for the &quot;Fair Trade&quot; Bernie Sanders slogan.

The economy is too intertwined to abandon government-- so the best we can hope for is to minimize the worst impulses to control everything.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Niketas, food is the only product that we can&#8217;t live without.</p>
<p>Living in the byproduct of Grand Coulee Dam&#8211; the Columbia Basin Reclamation Project, where 1/2 million acres is irrigated by a network of canals from the Dam, I have seen both sides of the issue.</p>
<p>Any central planning produces inefficiencies. I remember in the late 80&#8217;s the government had a set aside program&#8211; so farmers put marginal land in production for 1 year to qualify&#8211; and then were paid to not grow crops on land that wouldn&#8217;t for the most part been planted.</p>
<p>Then I&#8217;ve seen bankruptcies as prices dropped below the cost of harvesting.</p>
<p>I think we got rid of the worst of the maladministration. I haven&#8217;t been involved for years, so I don&#8217;t know the current programs.</p>
<p>Obesity is from processed foods and yes, we need to stifle the corn mafia.</p>
<p>But my point is Ricardo is a nostalgic theory that needs to be put to rest. I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;ve abandoned the &#8220;Free Trade&#8221; chimera for the &#8220;Fair Trade&#8221; Bernie Sanders slogan.</p>
<p>The economy is too intertwined to abandon government&#8211; so the best we can hope for is to minimize the worst impulses to control everything.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Brian E:&lt;i&gt;It’s a benefit to us by keeping the price of food stable and affordable.&lt;/i&gt;

Every producer could say this about what they produce, but we can&#039;t all be subsidized. Other prices of other things have to be higher to pay these subsidies.

With subsidies I get to pay above market clearing price twice: once when I&#039;m taxed for the subsidy, and once when I pay too much for it.

We nearly got rid of farm subsidies in the 1990s but Congress (both Houses held by the GOP) brought them roaring back after 9/11.

Obesity is a major public health problem in this country, maybe it&#039;s past time we rethought this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian E:<i>It’s a benefit to us by keeping the price of food stable and affordable.</i></p>
<p>Every producer could say this about what they produce, but we can&#8217;t all be subsidized. Other prices of other things have to be higher to pay these subsidies.</p>
<p>With subsidies I get to pay above market clearing price twice: once when I&#8217;m taxed for the subsidy, and once when I pay too much for it.</p>
<p>We nearly got rid of farm subsidies in the 1990s but Congress (both Houses held by the GOP) brought them roaring back after 9/11.</p>
<p>Obesity is a major public health problem in this country, maybe it&#8217;s past time we rethought this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/06/13/open-thread-6-13-24/#comment-2745174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jun 2024 23:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=135113#comment-2745174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Its the worst one till the next one last one was fire in space this one was burning stone if you take it like mst3k

The night sisters that arent in name are evil like the Sith, of course if we believe obi wan the jedi had been around for 20,000 years]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its the worst one till the next one last one was fire in space this one was burning stone if you take it like mst3k</p>
<p>The night sisters that arent in name are evil like the Sith, of course if we believe obi wan the jedi had been around for 20,000 years</p>
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