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	<title>
	Comments on: Blood libel redux: the UN and Gaza death statistics	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 21:08:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 21:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ray van dune:&lt;i&gt;Could Roosevelt have persuaded America to declare war on Germany in the abscence of a German declaration?!&lt;/i&gt;

Probably, because the US had already exceeded in belligerence what is permitted for for a nation to be considered neutral, and the only reason Germany hadn&#039;t declared war in response is because their hands were full. In other words, the US before Pearl Harbor was fighting a limited and undeclared war against Germany and Germany was pretending not to notice.

American violations of neutrality before Pearl Harbor include:

Declaration of a &quot;Pan-American Security Zone&quot; in international waters
Invading and occupying Iceland
Lend-Lease
US Navy escorts for Allied shipping
Roosevelt&#039;s order of September 11, 1940 to attack any U-boats on sight

I&#039;m not saying it was morally wrong to do these things, just noting that they happened.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ray van dune:<i>Could Roosevelt have persuaded America to declare war on Germany in the abscence of a German declaration?!</i></p>
<p>Probably, because the US had already exceeded in belligerence what is permitted for for a nation to be considered neutral, and the only reason Germany hadn&#8217;t declared war in response is because their hands were full. In other words, the US before Pearl Harbor was fighting a limited and undeclared war against Germany and Germany was pretending not to notice.</p>
<p>American violations of neutrality before Pearl Harbor include:</p>
<p>Declaration of a &#8220;Pan-American Security Zone&#8221; in international waters<br />
Invading and occupying Iceland<br />
Lend-Lease<br />
US Navy escorts for Allied shipping<br />
Roosevelt&#8217;s order of September 11, 1940 to attack any U-boats on sight</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying it was morally wrong to do these things, just noting that they happened.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JohnTyler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnTyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 19:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting to think about; what if Germany had never declared war on the USA and Japan had never attacked the USA??
Then what?
How would WWII have unfolded?

Who knows, but it is interesting to speculate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to think about; what if Germany had never declared war on the USA and Japan had never attacked the USA??<br />
Then what?<br />
How would WWII have unfolded?</p>
<p>Who knows, but it is interesting to speculate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel+cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel+cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 19:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[thank heaven for Stupid and evil dictators, yes he seemed to ignore that the US had basically helped bring the last war to a close, same with the Prologue of the Corsican corporal,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank heaven for Stupid and evil dictators, yes he seemed to ignore that the US had basically helped bring the last war to a close, same with the Prologue of the Corsican corporal,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray+Van+Dune		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray+Van+Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 19:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have often surmised that the single stupidest thing Hitler did was to declare war on America. Imagine Roosevelt trying to wage war on Germany if they had remained neutral, much less implement a &quot;Europe first&quot; strategy, while battling Japan?!

Could Roosevelt have persuaded America to declare war on Germany in the abscence of a German declaration?!

U.S. participation in every convoy to England or Russia could only be begrudged as reducing the effort against the true enemy, Japan. Might Hitler have forced England and Russia to the negotiating table without the U.S. participation in Europe?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often surmised that the single stupidest thing Hitler did was to declare war on America. Imagine Roosevelt trying to wage war on Germany if they had remained neutral, much less implement a &#8220;Europe first&#8221; strategy, while battling Japan?!</p>
<p>Could Roosevelt have persuaded America to declare war on Germany in the abscence of a German declaration?!</p>
<p>U.S. participation in every convoy to England or Russia could only be begrudged as reducing the effort against the true enemy, Japan. Might Hitler have forced England and Russia to the negotiating table without the U.S. participation in Europe?</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel+cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel+cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 17:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was very particular with the choice of language, the same people who presided over the Kabul capitulation, which turn out to more sordid every day, without a moments rest, are at the forefront of this effort, in and out of government, in academia, in private contractors, 
now i&#039;m on record, this expedition was ill considered ill timed and most of the proponents on the Russian side, deserve a short balcony drop,

but our desire to mirror our expectations and
desires to the adversary seems equally flawed, when Reagan put in missiles in West Germany, that was considered provocative, opening up a front in the bloodlands of the Steppes, well that seems insane,

the happy talk we were told the last two years, contrasts with the actual record, we see with the national guardsmen leak, they are rather silent on this score all of a sudden,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was very particular with the choice of language, the same people who presided over the Kabul capitulation, which turn out to more sordid every day, without a moments rest, are at the forefront of this effort, in and out of government, in academia, in private contractors,<br />
now i&#8217;m on record, this expedition was ill considered ill timed and most of the proponents on the Russian side, deserve a short balcony drop,</p>
<p>but our desire to mirror our expectations and<br />
desires to the adversary seems equally flawed, when Reagan put in missiles in West Germany, that was considered provocative, opening up a front in the bloodlands of the Steppes, well that seems insane,</p>
<p>the happy talk we were told the last two years, contrasts with the actual record, we see with the national guardsmen leak, they are rather silent on this score all of a sudden,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 17:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@miguel:&lt;i&gt;the most public partisans of the ukrainian cause are also the ones...&lt;/i&gt;

You and I are usually on the same page, but not here.  You&#039;re doing the &quot;my side / their side&quot; logic and it&#039;s bogus.

The rightness or wrongness of what the US is doing with Ukraine is based on the appropriateness of the goal to be achieved, the effectiveness and ethics of the means used to achieve the goal, the likelihood of success, the costs in lives and money, and the risks being run. It has nothing whatever to do with who&#039;s in favor of it.

Plenty of good people on the Right are in favor of it. I think those people are either mistaken or emphasize different values from mine, but that doesn&#039;t put them on the Bad Team. And if the Bad Team says the sun rises in the east, that doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s smart to bank on the sun really rising in the west.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@miguel:<i>the most public partisans of the ukrainian cause are also the ones&#8230;</i></p>
<p>You and I are usually on the same page, but not here.  You&#8217;re doing the &#8220;my side / their side&#8221; logic and it&#8217;s bogus.</p>
<p>The rightness or wrongness of what the US is doing with Ukraine is based on the appropriateness of the goal to be achieved, the effectiveness and ethics of the means used to achieve the goal, the likelihood of success, the costs in lives and money, and the risks being run. It has nothing whatever to do with who&#8217;s in favor of it.</p>
<p>Plenty of good people on the Right are in favor of it. I think those people are either mistaken or emphasize different values from mine, but that doesn&#8217;t put them on the Bad Team. And if the Bad Team says the sun rises in the east, that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s smart to bank on the sun really rising in the west.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel+cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741152</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel+cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 17:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741152</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[here is the thing, the most public partisans of the ukrainian cause are also the ones most focused on deplatforming, spreading dezinforma, et al, because insurrectionist, eleventy, like miss disinfo, who sees 1984 as a how to manual, they are more often than not, the same people who wanted forever lockdowns
despite their ineffectiveness, and their damage of the social fabric, wanted unvaccinated to be banned from public life, often were the strongest promulgators of the Russian hoax, no matter how much contrary evidence was available,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is the thing, the most public partisans of the ukrainian cause are also the ones most focused on deplatforming, spreading dezinforma, et al, because insurrectionist, eleventy, like miss disinfo, who sees 1984 as a how to manual, they are more often than not, the same people who wanted forever lockdowns<br />
despite their ineffectiveness, and their damage of the social fabric, wanted unvaccinated to be banned from public life, often were the strongest promulgators of the Russian hoax, no matter how much contrary evidence was available,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Niketas Choniates		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Niketas Choniates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 17:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[WWII is worth reviewing in detail when trying to evaluate today&#039;s wars, because we&#039;ve built a mythology about it being a very moral war. In reality, many of the things done in the course of winning WWII would shock our conscience today, not because they were necessarily wrong to have done them then, but because we in the West have not faced such a dire threat in that time and simply have not faced such hard choices as were on offer then.

This post&#039;s Israel article is a good example of how to use WWII for perspective. An article that could have used a fair comparison with WWII is this Federalist article &lt;a href=&quot;https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/22/zelenskys-prolonged-presidency-proves-americans-were-sold-a-lie-on-ukraine/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Zelensky’s Prolonged Presidency Proves Americans Were Sold A Lie On Ukraine&lt;/a&gt;.

I am not a fan of what the US is trying to do with Ukraine, but the examples given there of antidemocratic actions by Zelensky are not anything that Winston Churchill didn&#039;t do:

General elections for Parliament were suspended from 1940 - 1945. Press and speech restrictions were in place. People who had done absolutely nothing wrong were &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;imprisoned&lt;/a&gt; just in case. Churchill assumed the power to requisition anyone or anything. And I&#039;m afraid there was corruption and people profiting handsomely from wartime spending. But the UK did not cease to be a free country. When the crisis was over the elections resumed and those interned were released, and corruption gradually dropped back to peacetime levels. Not only that, Churchill was decisively repudiated in that first resumed election, and he went home to write his books.

You can disagree with the US approach to Ukraine without having to create a narrative to make Ukraine look worse than it is, or than the Western countries have been when faced with a serious a threat as Ukraine is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WWII is worth reviewing in detail when trying to evaluate today&#8217;s wars, because we&#8217;ve built a mythology about it being a very moral war. In reality, many of the things done in the course of winning WWII would shock our conscience today, not because they were necessarily wrong to have done them then, but because we in the West have not faced such a dire threat in that time and simply have not faced such hard choices as were on offer then.</p>
<p>This post&#8217;s Israel article is a good example of how to use WWII for perspective. An article that could have used a fair comparison with WWII is this Federalist article <a href="https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/22/zelenskys-prolonged-presidency-proves-americans-were-sold-a-lie-on-ukraine/" rel="nofollow ugc">Zelensky’s Prolonged Presidency Proves Americans Were Sold A Lie On Ukraine</a>.</p>
<p>I am not a fan of what the US is trying to do with Ukraine, but the examples given there of antidemocratic actions by Zelensky are not anything that Winston Churchill didn&#8217;t do:</p>
<p>General elections for Parliament were suspended from 1940 &#8211; 1945. Press and speech restrictions were in place. People who had done absolutely nothing wrong were <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Regulation_18B" rel="nofollow ugc">imprisoned</a> just in case. Churchill assumed the power to requisition anyone or anything. And I&#8217;m afraid there was corruption and people profiting handsomely from wartime spending. But the UK did not cease to be a free country. When the crisis was over the elections resumed and those interned were released, and corruption gradually dropped back to peacetime levels. Not only that, Churchill was decisively repudiated in that first resumed election, and he went home to write his books.</p>
<p>You can disagree with the US approach to Ukraine without having to create a narrative to make Ukraine look worse than it is, or than the Western countries have been when faced with a serious a threat as Ukraine is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741120</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 14:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741120</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Barry Meislin:

And of course you fight the war you are in with the tools you have and are making, to take the war to the enemy.  Germany and later Japan could be bombed before boots could get up close and  personal.

The Germans and Japanese could not bomb American or Soviet factories or factory workers (and civilians).  The Germans tried to bomb the British but were not successful (relative to the scale they were later bombed).

And of course the Allies shut down the U Boats by late 1943 and eliminated Japanese shipping by 1944 (subs and mines).  So having factories and populations safe and largely immune from enemy attack by Germany and Japan was a hudge advantage. Geography matters.

Bombing helped the boots immensely (IMO).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Meislin:</p>
<p>And of course you fight the war you are in with the tools you have and are making, to take the war to the enemy.  Germany and later Japan could be bombed before boots could get up close and  personal.</p>
<p>The Germans and Japanese could not bomb American or Soviet factories or factory workers (and civilians).  The Germans tried to bomb the British but were not successful (relative to the scale they were later bombed).</p>
<p>And of course the Allies shut down the U Boats by late 1943 and eliminated Japanese shipping by 1944 (subs and mines).  So having factories and populations safe and largely immune from enemy attack by Germany and Japan was a hudge advantage. Geography matters.</p>
<p>Bombing helped the boots immensely (IMO).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/05/22/blood-libel-redux-the-un-and-gaza-death-statistics/#comment-2741119</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2024 14:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=134395#comment-2741119</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They are more diligent liars than the truth tellers to a remarkable degree

There was a novelist charlie newton who tried to spin the hebron massacre in 29 against the jews in his tale about oil intrigue in the middle east]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are more diligent liars than the truth tellers to a remarkable degree</p>
<p>There was a novelist charlie newton who tried to spin the hebron massacre in 29 against the jews in his tale about oil intrigue in the middle east</p>
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