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	Comments on: Is the universe twice as old as previously thought?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 04:36:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2730061</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 04:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2730061</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ OBH &#062; &quot;the science they do is at the edge of human understanding, and there are probably less than 1000 people who Really Get It&quot;

Reminded me of this observation about Einstein.
(I cleaned up the typos.)

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/only-three-people-understand-general-relativity.935624/
&lt;blockquote&gt;From Verifying the Theory of Relativity by Chandrasekhar 

Sir J.J. Thomson, as President of the Royal Society at that time, concluded the meeting with the statement, &#039;I have to confess that no one has yet succeeded in stating in clear language what the theory of Einstein&#039;s really is&#039;. 

And Eddington recalled that as the meeting was dispersing, Ludwig Silberstein (the author of one of the early books on relativity), came up to him and said,&#039; Professor Eddington, you must be one of three persons in the world who understands general relativity&#039;. 

On Eddington demurring to this statement, Silberstein responded, &#039;Don&#039;t be modest Eddington&#039;. And Eddington&#039;s reply was, &#039;On the contrary, I am trying to think who the third person is!&#039;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Further down in the discussion is this limerick, just for fun. 
The opinions expressed are the sole responsibility of the anonymous author.

There&#039;s a wonderful family called Stein.
There&#039;s Gert and there&#039;s Ep and there&#039;s Ein.
Gert&#039;s poems are bunk,
Ep&#039;s statues are junk,
and no one can understand Ein.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ OBH &gt; &#8220;the science they do is at the edge of human understanding, and there are probably less than 1000 people who Really Get It&#8221;</p>
<p>Reminded me of this observation about Einstein.<br />
(I cleaned up the typos.)</p>
<p><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/only-three-people-understand-general-relativity.935624/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/only-three-people-understand-general-relativity.935624/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>From Verifying the Theory of Relativity by Chandrasekhar </p>
<p>Sir J.J. Thomson, as President of the Royal Society at that time, concluded the meeting with the statement, &#8216;I have to confess that no one has yet succeeded in stating in clear language what the theory of Einstein&#8217;s really is&#8217;. </p>
<p>And Eddington recalled that as the meeting was dispersing, Ludwig Silberstein (the author of one of the early books on relativity), came up to him and said,&#8217; Professor Eddington, you must be one of three persons in the world who understands general relativity&#8217;. </p>
<p>On Eddington demurring to this statement, Silberstein responded, &#8216;Don&#8217;t be modest Eddington&#8217;. And Eddington&#8217;s reply was, &#8216;On the contrary, I am trying to think who the third person is!&#8217;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Further down in the discussion is this limerick, just for fun.<br />
The opinions expressed are the sole responsibility of the anonymous author.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a wonderful family called Stein.<br />
There&#8217;s Gert and there&#8217;s Ep and there&#8217;s Ein.<br />
Gert&#8217;s poems are bunk,<br />
Ep&#8217;s statues are junk,<br />
and no one can understand Ein.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2730059</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 04:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2730059</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Me in physics class:
https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/02/rdt_20230404_0317275233603852168844426.jpg

Let&#039;s have the Enterprise check this out. 
https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/03/gogh.png

The truth behind the moon landing.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/IMG_1027.jpg

The earliest known painting of Keith Richards is still a bit late, sorry Cappy.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/Screenshot-2024-03-12-at-7.02.52%E2%80%AFAM.png]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me in physics class:<br />
<a href="https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/02/rdt_20230404_0317275233603852168844426.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/02/rdt_20230404_0317275233603852168844426.jpg</a></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s have the Enterprise check this out.<br />
<a href="https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/03/gogh.png" rel="nofollow ugc">https://accordingtohoyt.files.wordpress.com/2024/03/gogh.png</a></p>
<p>The truth behind the moon landing.<br />
<a href="https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/IMG_1027.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/IMG_1027.jpg</a></p>
<p>The earliest known painting of Keith Richards is still a bit late, sorry Cappy.<br />
<a href="https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/Screenshot-2024-03-12-at-7.02.52%E2%80%AFAM.png" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2024/03/Screenshot-2024-03-12-at-7.02.52%E2%80%AFAM.png</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Boobah		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2730034</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boobah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2024 00:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2730034</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The biggest problem with discussing &lt;i&gt;dark energy&lt;/i&gt; is the assumption that it has something to do with &lt;i&gt;dark matter.&lt;/i&gt;  It does not; the unifying theme is &#039;dark&#039; as in &#039;hidden,&#039; like the &#039;dark side of the moon&#039; is the side of the moon facing away from Earth, and therefore hidden from ground-based observation.

&lt;i&gt;Dark matter&lt;/i&gt; is the &#039;answer&#039; to why everything out there acts as if it&#039;s heavier than it looks.  The second most popular answer is that gravity is weirder than we think and that at short distances (for cosmological distances, anyway) the extra terms don&#039;t matter, like the relativistic additions to the kinetic energy equation, which are effectively zero at the human scale.

&lt;i&gt;Dark energy&lt;/i&gt; is the &#039;answer&#039; to why the universe is expanding.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest problem with discussing <i>dark energy</i> is the assumption that it has something to do with <i>dark matter.</i>  It does not; the unifying theme is &#8216;dark&#8217; as in &#8216;hidden,&#8217; like the &#8216;dark side of the moon&#8217; is the side of the moon facing away from Earth, and therefore hidden from ground-based observation.</p>
<p><i>Dark matter</i> is the &#8216;answer&#8217; to why everything out there acts as if it&#8217;s heavier than it looks.  The second most popular answer is that gravity is weirder than we think and that at short distances (for cosmological distances, anyway) the extra terms don&#8217;t matter, like the relativistic additions to the kinetic energy equation, which are effectively zero at the human scale.</p>
<p><i>Dark energy</i> is the &#8216;answer&#8217; to why the universe is expanding.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel+cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2730015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel+cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 23:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2730015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[well how would you calculate maximum density, if the universe is some king of oblong shape, then there would that distance on the other side of the universe,
it would stand to reason,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well how would you calculate maximum density, if the universe is some king of oblong shape, then there would that distance on the other side of the universe,<br />
it would stand to reason,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Sennacherib		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2730010</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sennacherib]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 23:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2730010</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cappy,
Lololololololol, the &quot;Strolling Bones&quot;. Yes Neo it is that old, I was there when it started.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cappy,<br />
Lololololololol, the &#8220;Strolling Bones&#8221;. Yes Neo it is that old, I was there when it started.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Cappy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2729949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cappy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 19:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2729949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ask Keith Richards.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask Keith Richards.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2729943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2729943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So wouldnt dark matter move than regular matter]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So wouldnt dark matter move than regular matter</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ray Van Dune		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2729941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray Van Dune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2729941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mac:  &quot;Sound waves?&quot;

Yeah, that was my first reaction when I heard this concept, quite popular these days, for the first time in reference to an extraterrestrial locale. After all, in space nobody can hear you scream, right?!

I think &quot;density waves&quot; would be a clearer term to use, since while &quot;sound&quot; is indeed a compression or density wave, the traditional context of &quot;sound&quot; is such a wave occurring within a planetary atmosphere, and perceptible by a biological organism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mac:  &#8220;Sound waves?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, that was my first reaction when I heard this concept, quite popular these days, for the first time in reference to an extraterrestrial locale. After all, in space nobody can hear you scream, right?!</p>
<p>I think &#8220;density waves&#8221; would be a clearer term to use, since while &#8220;sound&#8221; is indeed a compression or density wave, the traditional context of &#8220;sound&#8221; is such a wave occurring within a planetary atmosphere, and perceptible by a biological organism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: DNW		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2729930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DNW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 15:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2729930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would suggest that anyone looking at the supposed parallels between so-called &quot;Vedic physics&quot; and modern cosmology and physics, do a cautionary exploration of the textual and translation debates before getting too excited.

There seems to be a lot of motivated back-reading going on, if you catch my drift.

The famous 10.129 hymn is just one place to start.

And given the political situation in India, and those sctapping to take ownership of the texts, and declare their &quot;true&quot; meaning to suit a social agenda, I doubt it will get much better, speaking in a general way. A mess I would not even wish to engage with.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest that anyone looking at the supposed parallels between so-called &#8220;Vedic physics&#8221; and modern cosmology and physics, do a cautionary exploration of the textual and translation debates before getting too excited.</p>
<p>There seems to be a lot of motivated back-reading going on, if you catch my drift.</p>
<p>The famous 10.129 hymn is just one place to start.</p>
<p>And given the political situation in India, and those sctapping to take ownership of the texts, and declare their &#8220;true&#8221; meaning to suit a social agenda, I doubt it will get much better, speaking in a general way. A mess I would not even wish to engage with.</p>
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		<title>
		By: physicsguy		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/20/is-the-universe-twice-as-old-as-previously-thought/#comment-2729926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[physicsguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2024 14:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=133120#comment-2729926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was watching, ironically enough, reruns of the Big Bang Theory last night, so just arriving here this morning.

Just to clean up some notions:

The Big Bang is not describing an infinite density of energy expanding out, it describes actual &quot;reality&quot; expanding... ie before the BB there was literally nothing.  This is very hard to conceptualize, but it was literally spacetime itself coming into existence and expanding.  That&#039;s what the equations describe. Yes, and the parallel to Genesis and other such creation stories is obvious.  Source of the BB?? no idea.  Some try to invoke the Heisenberg UP in that  given a delta T, there can be a large delta E, but this never made sense to me as there was no T at all.

Heat death:  the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows, and observations back up, that entropy is increasing always for any closed system...can&#039;t get much more closed than the universe.  The BB was a low entropy state, so the universe is evolving towards high entropy at which point it will be all at the same temperature and no net energy flow anywhere.  The linkage of the movement to high entropy and the &quot;flow&quot; of time is still being debated.

Cyclic Universes:  Take the current observed expansion of the universe by observed redshifts of galaxies and then combine that with gravity; you don&#039;t even really need GR, Newton works just fine, it&#039;s fairly easy to calculate a critical density of matter.  If the density of the universe is greater than this number, the expansion will slow, stop, and then reverse..ie a cyclic universe.  If less, then the universe expands without slowing.  At the critical density the universe barely continues expanding.  All measurements so far indicate we are right on the knife edge of the critical density.  The existence of dark matter would obviously change the measured value.  

And just to add to the spices:  the constants, G, h, c, etc seem to be finely tuned such small deviations from their values lead to an uninhabitable universe...another possible expression of the strong Anthropic principle.

Isn&#039;t this all a hoot?    :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was watching, ironically enough, reruns of the Big Bang Theory last night, so just arriving here this morning.</p>
<p>Just to clean up some notions:</p>
<p>The Big Bang is not describing an infinite density of energy expanding out, it describes actual &#8220;reality&#8221; expanding&#8230; ie before the BB there was literally nothing.  This is very hard to conceptualize, but it was literally spacetime itself coming into existence and expanding.  That&#8217;s what the equations describe. Yes, and the parallel to Genesis and other such creation stories is obvious.  Source of the BB?? no idea.  Some try to invoke the Heisenberg UP in that  given a delta T, there can be a large delta E, but this never made sense to me as there was no T at all.</p>
<p>Heat death:  the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics shows, and observations back up, that entropy is increasing always for any closed system&#8230;can&#8217;t get much more closed than the universe.  The BB was a low entropy state, so the universe is evolving towards high entropy at which point it will be all at the same temperature and no net energy flow anywhere.  The linkage of the movement to high entropy and the &#8220;flow&#8221; of time is still being debated.</p>
<p>Cyclic Universes:  Take the current observed expansion of the universe by observed redshifts of galaxies and then combine that with gravity; you don&#8217;t even really need GR, Newton works just fine, it&#8217;s fairly easy to calculate a critical density of matter.  If the density of the universe is greater than this number, the expansion will slow, stop, and then reverse..ie a cyclic universe.  If less, then the universe expands without slowing.  At the critical density the universe barely continues expanding.  All measurements so far indicate we are right on the knife edge of the critical density.  The existence of dark matter would obviously change the measured value.  </p>
<p>And just to add to the spices:  the constants, G, h, c, etc seem to be finely tuned such small deviations from their values lead to an uninhabitable universe&#8230;another possible expression of the strong Anthropic principle.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this all a hoot?    🙂</p>
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