<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Let there be light: the Webb	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2024 01:48:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: Mike+Plaiss		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike+Plaiss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2024 01:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I’ve heard the same story F, but always forget who the speaker was. Bertrand Russell sounds right. I don’t really care to investigate the truth of it. The story is just fine as is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve heard the same story F, but always forget who the speaker was. Bertrand Russell sounds right. I don’t really care to investigate the truth of it. The story is just fine as is.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: F		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727479</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 22:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727479</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I doubt there are any readers on this blog that have not heard this story, but I will tell it just in case.  And I will count on other commenters to correct any errors I have injected into this:

It is reported that Bertrand Russell gave a lecture many years ago about cosmology and astronomy.  Opened for comment after he was finished, a woman stood up and scolded him thus: &quot;young man, everyone knows that the earth rests on the back of a turtle.&quot;

Russell responds: &quot;and what is the turtle standing on, ma&#039;am?&quot;

&quot;Young man, it&#039;s turtles all the way down.&quot;

If it is fictional, it is a wonderful fiction.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt there are any readers on this blog that have not heard this story, but I will tell it just in case.  And I will count on other commenters to correct any errors I have injected into this:</p>
<p>It is reported that Bertrand Russell gave a lecture many years ago about cosmology and astronomy.  Opened for comment after he was finished, a woman stood up and scolded him thus: &#8220;young man, everyone knows that the earth rests on the back of a turtle.&#8221;</p>
<p>Russell responds: &#8220;and what is the turtle standing on, ma&#8217;am?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Young man, it&#8217;s turtles all the way down.&#8221;</p>
<p>If it is fictional, it is a wonderful fiction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: tim ferrell		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727463</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tim ferrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 21:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727463</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Anton Petrov has a youtube channel in which he often talks about the JWT discoveries.  It is worth checking out - he is very good.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anton Petrov has a youtube channel in which he often talks about the JWT discoveries.  It is worth checking out &#8211; he is very good.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Steve57		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727437</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve57]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 20:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727437</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I want to care]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to care</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Old Surfer		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727429</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Old Surfer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 19:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727429</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Webb telescope seems to be calling a lot of accepted cosmology into question.  Big bang theory is only a theory and the presence of fully formed galaxies way back throws the whole idea into question. I&#039;ve always thought a steady state universe made more sense and things light the red shift and expansion are artifacts rather than reality requiring dark matter and other fixes to make sense of observational data. Too many moving parts!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Webb telescope seems to be calling a lot of accepted cosmology into question.  Big bang theory is only a theory and the presence of fully formed galaxies way back throws the whole idea into question. I&#8217;ve always thought a steady state universe made more sense and things light the red shift and expansion are artifacts rather than reality requiring dark matter and other fixes to make sense of observational data. Too many moving parts!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: miguel+cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727418</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel+cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 18:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727418</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[theres an interesting astronomical observation  Percival Lowell the one who &#039;discovered&#039; the martian canals that would inspire HG Well&#039;s War of the Worlds, actually did so because the way he shaped the lens of his telescope, he took a picture of the capillaries of his own idea,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>theres an interesting astronomical observation  Percival Lowell the one who &#8216;discovered&#8217; the martian canals that would inspire HG Well&#8217;s War of the Worlds, actually did so because the way he shaped the lens of his telescope, he took a picture of the capillaries of his own idea,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Abraxas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727417</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abraxas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 18:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727417</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;This Quasar’s gas-guzzling supermassive black hole generates a brilliant beacon of light that illuminates the gas all along the line of sight between us and it.&lt;/i&gt;

Pretty nifty trick for a 1970s television.  But then, you&#039;d be surprised what becomes possible when Motorola puts &quot;the works in a drawer.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This Quasar’s gas-guzzling supermassive black hole generates a brilliant beacon of light that illuminates the gas all along the line of sight between us and it.</i></p>
<p>Pretty nifty trick for a 1970s television.  But then, you&#8217;d be surprised what becomes possible when Motorola puts &#8220;the works in a drawer.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Rufus T. Firefly		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rufus T. Firefly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 15:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike Plaiss,

As you write, when one looks at the available resources the numbers are so huge they approach the limit of infinity. So many stars and planets running so many experiments with elements, molecules, amino acids...

Even if the Goldilocks zone is necessary, there still must be billions of viable planets like ours.

We still don&#039;t know how to jumpstart life given the proper molecular soup, but even if we assume that is inevitable, given the proper ingredients and conditions, there are so many steps to get to us I&#039;m not so sure intelligent life at our level is inevitable. Even on our own planet, where we know life happened, the planet was just fine having all kinds of non-intelligent life for billions of years.

Single celled life first appeared about 4 billion years ago and that was just fine for about 500 million years and it took about 2 billion years to get to sexual reproduction. Was that a one time, fluke mutation or did changing conditions result in an environment where many asexual organisms mutated simultaneously? Then it&#039;s about 500 million more years until we get the first, multicellular life. And even when life evolved incredible diversity, Earth seemed content to house all manner of plant and animal life of all shapes and sizes for hundreds of millions of years without the existence of anything capable of fashioning a shoe, let alone a telescope or rocket ship.

Then, look at what we know about the development of knowledge amongst humans, once we came along. Most cultures were just fine with &quot;stone age&quot; tech. Tribes still exist to this day that live in that fashion. Is agriculture the innovation that leads to &quot;civilization?&quot; If so, would man have developed agriculture if this planet wasn&#039;t tilted so severely (23.8 degrees) on its axis?

And the evolutionary leap required to get bipeds with freed up hands and brains our size seems very precarious. Is there a species where a higher percentage of mothers die in childbirth than humans? And we have to be born a good 12 - 24 months premature with non-hard skulls. Multiple human births (twins, triplets) are rare. 11 - 13 years before we can sexually reproduce. Very risky stuff. Humans in nature are incredibly vulnerable. Nature doesn&#039;t seem to favor intelligence beyond a certain cunning, even at caveman levels.

And, even if all those variable line up to give you an intelligent species with appendages that can manipulate tools, look at the hundreds of thousands of years myriad human tribes existed and did nothing that gets one close to a telescope or rocket ship. The Chinese invented movable type and did nothing with it. The Romans understood steam power. For hundreds of thousands of years horses, oxen, wind and water power were sufficient for human thriving.

It seems that divining the nature of electricity would be essential for a species to engage outside their planet. A lot of very intelligent humans looked at electricity and never learned its nature. Maxwell, Clerk, Volta... a few geniuses made astounding leaps in understanding that allowed others to come behind and use their findings. What if Maxwell had died of cholera, or in an invasion by raiders to his village? Would we still be living with 1700s technology?

It seems elementary to look at the sheer number of potential planets to assume intelligent life at or level, or beyond, must occur myriad times in our Universe. But I think it is easy for us to gloss over the myriad improbable events that must occur to get a species to our level. As I wrote, even when life thrived on this planet, Earth seemed just fine not having any species with our capabilities. Then, once we came along we seemed fine existing without taming electricity, steam or oil, let alone uranium and plutonium.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Plaiss,</p>
<p>As you write, when one looks at the available resources the numbers are so huge they approach the limit of infinity. So many stars and planets running so many experiments with elements, molecules, amino acids&#8230;</p>
<p>Even if the Goldilocks zone is necessary, there still must be billions of viable planets like ours.</p>
<p>We still don&#8217;t know how to jumpstart life given the proper molecular soup, but even if we assume that is inevitable, given the proper ingredients and conditions, there are so many steps to get to us I&#8217;m not so sure intelligent life at our level is inevitable. Even on our own planet, where we know life happened, the planet was just fine having all kinds of non-intelligent life for billions of years.</p>
<p>Single celled life first appeared about 4 billion years ago and that was just fine for about 500 million years and it took about 2 billion years to get to sexual reproduction. Was that a one time, fluke mutation or did changing conditions result in an environment where many asexual organisms mutated simultaneously? Then it&#8217;s about 500 million more years until we get the first, multicellular life. And even when life evolved incredible diversity, Earth seemed content to house all manner of plant and animal life of all shapes and sizes for hundreds of millions of years without the existence of anything capable of fashioning a shoe, let alone a telescope or rocket ship.</p>
<p>Then, look at what we know about the development of knowledge amongst humans, once we came along. Most cultures were just fine with &#8220;stone age&#8221; tech. Tribes still exist to this day that live in that fashion. Is agriculture the innovation that leads to &#8220;civilization?&#8221; If so, would man have developed agriculture if this planet wasn&#8217;t tilted so severely (23.8 degrees) on its axis?</p>
<p>And the evolutionary leap required to get bipeds with freed up hands and brains our size seems very precarious. Is there a species where a higher percentage of mothers die in childbirth than humans? And we have to be born a good 12 &#8211; 24 months premature with non-hard skulls. Multiple human births (twins, triplets) are rare. 11 &#8211; 13 years before we can sexually reproduce. Very risky stuff. Humans in nature are incredibly vulnerable. Nature doesn&#8217;t seem to favor intelligence beyond a certain cunning, even at caveman levels.</p>
<p>And, even if all those variable line up to give you an intelligent species with appendages that can manipulate tools, look at the hundreds of thousands of years myriad human tribes existed and did nothing that gets one close to a telescope or rocket ship. The Chinese invented movable type and did nothing with it. The Romans understood steam power. For hundreds of thousands of years horses, oxen, wind and water power were sufficient for human thriving.</p>
<p>It seems that divining the nature of electricity would be essential for a species to engage outside their planet. A lot of very intelligent humans looked at electricity and never learned its nature. Maxwell, Clerk, Volta&#8230; a few geniuses made astounding leaps in understanding that allowed others to come behind and use their findings. What if Maxwell had died of cholera, or in an invasion by raiders to his village? Would we still be living with 1700s technology?</p>
<p>It seems elementary to look at the sheer number of potential planets to assume intelligent life at or level, or beyond, must occur myriad times in our Universe. But I think it is easy for us to gloss over the myriad improbable events that must occur to get a species to our level. As I wrote, even when life thrived on this planet, Earth seemed just fine not having any species with our capabilities. Then, once we came along we seemed fine existing without taming electricity, steam or oil, let alone uranium and plutonium.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Jon baker		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon baker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 09:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Somebody ought to make a cartoon with a guy looking thru a large telescope into space seeing another guy looking thru a large telescope, only to realize he is seeing himself in a round universe.
( Yes, I know the light couldn&#039;t travel that fast. It&#039;s a cartoon)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody ought to make a cartoon with a guy looking thru a large telescope into space seeing another guy looking thru a large telescope, only to realize he is seeing himself in a round universe.<br />
( Yes, I know the light couldn&#8217;t travel that fast. It&#8217;s a cartoon)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Mike+Plaiss		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/03/05/let-there-be-light-the-webb/#comment-2727331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike+Plaiss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2024 00:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132805#comment-2727331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes JohnTyler, 100’s of billions of galaxies, each with 100’s of billions of stars. Start squaring numbers like those and you get ridiculous results. There are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches in the world. 

For what it’s worth, I’ve rarely heard an astronomer argue we’re alone in the universe. But many do think we could alone in the galaxy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes JohnTyler, 100’s of billions of galaxies, each with 100’s of billions of stars. Start squaring numbers like those and you get ridiculous results. There are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches in the world. </p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I’ve rarely heard an astronomer argue we’re alone in the universe. But many do think we could alone in the galaxy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
