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	Comments on: A few more things about the Crumbley case	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 18:38:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722295</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722295</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Abraxas:

Remember &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;this case&lt;/a&gt;?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abraxas:</p>
<p>Remember <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azaria_Chamberlain" rel="nofollow ugc">this case</a>?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722290</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722290</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Too bad the kid wasn&#039;t trans.
Then the poor dear would have been &quot;VICTIM&quot;.
And the parents would have been vindicated....

+ Bonus:
&quot;Five trans players dominate women’s college volleyball game, sparking outrage and claims of ‘cheating’ &quot;---
https://nypost.com/2024/02/07/news/video-allegedly-showing-five-trans-players-playing-in-womens-volleyball-game-sparks-outrage/

Yep, keep on letting that &quot;freak flag fly&quot;....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad the kid wasn&#8217;t trans.<br />
Then the poor dear would have been &#8220;VICTIM&#8221;.<br />
And the parents would have been vindicated&#8230;.</p>
<p>+ Bonus:<br />
&#8220;Five trans players dominate women’s college volleyball game, sparking outrage and claims of ‘cheating’ &#8220;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://nypost.com/2024/02/07/news/video-allegedly-showing-five-trans-players-playing-in-womens-volleyball-game-sparks-outrage/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://nypost.com/2024/02/07/news/video-allegedly-showing-five-trans-players-playing-in-womens-volleyball-game-sparks-outrage/</a></p>
<p>Yep, keep on letting that &#8220;freak flag fly&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Abraxas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722285</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abraxas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722285</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[All true, but the fact that she seemed to care more about her job and her horses than her son&#039;s problems or the misery he caused damned her in the eyes of the public and the jury.  Like Meursault, the (anti-)hero of Albert Camus &quot;The Stranger&quot; she was condemned for her strange and indifferent responses to events (though Meursault actually did commit murder).  She was found guilty as much for how she behaved after the killing as before it.  For all the concern about hovering, intrusive &quot;helicopter parents,&quot; indifferent, apathetic, uninvolved parents earn more condemnation -- certainly when something like this happens.  

I wonder if the case will become a topic of discussion, or even a cause celebre for feminists: the defense of a career woman who breaks with traditional ideas of family and &quot;leans in&quot; the business world too much.  Probably not, as the shooter&#039;s father is also going on trial.  If the children of people like this shouldn&#039;t have guns, it&#039;s also true that people like this probably shouldn&#039;t have children, and that&#039;s probably the takeaway for feminists and others.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All true, but the fact that she seemed to care more about her job and her horses than her son&#8217;s problems or the misery he caused damned her in the eyes of the public and the jury.  Like Meursault, the (anti-)hero of Albert Camus &#8220;The Stranger&#8221; she was condemned for her strange and indifferent responses to events (though Meursault actually did commit murder).  She was found guilty as much for how she behaved after the killing as before it.  For all the concern about hovering, intrusive &#8220;helicopter parents,&#8221; indifferent, apathetic, uninvolved parents earn more condemnation &#8212; certainly when something like this happens.  </p>
<p>I wonder if the case will become a topic of discussion, or even a cause celebre for feminists: the defense of a career woman who breaks with traditional ideas of family and &#8220;leans in&#8221; the business world too much.  Probably not, as the shooter&#8217;s father is also going on trial.  If the children of people like this shouldn&#8217;t have guns, it&#8217;s also true that people like this probably shouldn&#8217;t have children, and that&#8217;s probably the takeaway for feminists and others.</p>
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		<title>
		By: fullmoon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722283</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fullmoon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722283</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;For more than two years [the parents] have been kept in a county jail, unable to make bail.&lt;/i&gt;

So, two years with no income.
If found not guilty, they have still lost everything they owned.

And for those who say the parents should have got help for the kid, what kind of help? A psychiatrist cannot talk a crazy person out of being crazy, and that same crazy will generally stop taking prescribed meds that may, or may not, calm him down.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For more than two years [the parents] have been kept in a county jail, unable to make bail.</i></p>
<p>So, two years with no income.<br />
If found not guilty, they have still lost everything they owned.</p>
<p>And for those who say the parents should have got help for the kid, what kind of help? A psychiatrist cannot talk a crazy person out of being crazy, and that same crazy will generally stop taking prescribed meds that may, or may not, calm him down.</p>
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		<title>
		By: richf		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722262</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 16:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722262</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;...this verdict should strike fear into the heart of every parent...&quot;
I think that was the point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;this verdict should strike fear into the heart of every parent&#8230;&#8221;<br />
I think that was the point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722249</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 13:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722249</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As another example, the mother of the 6-year-old who shot his teacher in Virginia Beach was sentenced to two years for child neglect and another federal term of 21 months for using marijuana while owning a gun. She was not charged with attempted murder. She&#039;s black, and the badly injured teacher is white.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4362563-mother-of-six-year-old-who-shot-teacher-sentenced-to-two-years/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As another example, the mother of the 6-year-old who shot his teacher in Virginia Beach was sentenced to two years for child neglect and another federal term of 21 months for using marijuana while owning a gun. She was not charged with attempted murder. She&#8217;s black, and the badly injured teacher is white.</p>
<p><a href="https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4362563-mother-of-six-year-old-who-shot-teacher-sentenced-to-two-years/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4362563-mother-of-six-year-old-who-shot-teacher-sentenced-to-two-years/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: windbag		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722248</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[windbag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 13:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[With this precedent, when do we go after the FBI agents who had terrorists and mass murderers on their radar, but failed to act?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With this precedent, when do we go after the FBI agents who had terrorists and mass murderers on their radar, but failed to act?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cavendish		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cavendish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 06:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;&quot;Along with others, I think this is a back door attempt at gun control.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (from Kate, above).

It&#039;s quite a bit more than that, primarily overreach of state authority. If persons associated with, and potentially subordinate to, an event can be caused to suffer full responsibility for that event, there is no limit to what government can do in the arena of demanding, and enforcing, responsibility. One has to ask how far down the &quot;degrees of separation&quot; chain prosecutors intend to go.   

One version of this is suing a gun manufacturer because Person X procured one of their fully functional products, through means legal or iillegal,  and used it criminally.  The future version will be the owner of a gasoline station serving felony time for selling the gasoline fueling the car that a drunk driver operated which wound up in an accident that claimed the life of some valued personage.  

That such punitive action is employed selectively is evident by the lack of similar prosecution for single inner city mothers whose offspring populate the crime report pages. I also note that quite a few members of that same &quot;prosecutorial class&quot;  embrace no-bail release programs for miscreants, a number of whom are initially charged with crimes of violence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Along with others, I think this is a back door attempt at gun control.&#8221;</i> (from Kate, above).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite a bit more than that, primarily overreach of state authority. If persons associated with, and potentially subordinate to, an event can be caused to suffer full responsibility for that event, there is no limit to what government can do in the arena of demanding, and enforcing, responsibility. One has to ask how far down the &#8220;degrees of separation&#8221; chain prosecutors intend to go.   </p>
<p>One version of this is suing a gun manufacturer because Person X procured one of their fully functional products, through means legal or iillegal,  and used it criminally.  The future version will be the owner of a gasoline station serving felony time for selling the gasoline fueling the car that a drunk driver operated which wound up in an accident that claimed the life of some valued personage.  </p>
<p>That such punitive action is employed selectively is evident by the lack of similar prosecution for single inner city mothers whose offspring populate the crime report pages. I also note that quite a few members of that same &#8220;prosecutorial class&#8221;  embrace no-bail release programs for miscreants, a number of whom are initially charged with crimes of violence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jordan Rivers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722234</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jordan Rivers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 06:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722234</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This happened to a much lesser extent with the Highland Park, IL parade shooter&#039;s father.

The father was charged because he sponsored his son&#039;s application for a Firearm Owners Identification card (FOID). The soonsorship was required because the son was under 18. The son bought the murder weapon after he got his FOID. 

The father was charged with reckless conduct causing great bodily harm, which is a felony, although the son could have conceivably obtained an FOID and the gun without his father&#039;s signature, *after* he turned 21, nine months before the shooting. The father accepted a plea deal, spent a month in jail and was fined I think $20K.

I believe the prosecution of the father was political, because people were understandably outraged by the shooting, (and yes, there is a strong anti-gun culture in Highland Park.) While it was obviously a mistake to sign the FOID application, the father argued persuasively (IMO) that he shouldn&#039;t have been expected to predict what would happen two and a half years after he signed the paperwork.

https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/12/16/prosecutors-file-reckless-conduct-charges-against-father-of-highland-park-parade-shooting-suspect/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This happened to a much lesser extent with the Highland Park, IL parade shooter&#8217;s father.</p>
<p>The father was charged because he sponsored his son&#8217;s application for a Firearm Owners Identification card (FOID). The soonsorship was required because the son was under 18. The son bought the murder weapon after he got his FOID. </p>
<p>The father was charged with reckless conduct causing great bodily harm, which is a felony, although the son could have conceivably obtained an FOID and the gun without his father&#8217;s signature, *after* he turned 21, nine months before the shooting. The father accepted a plea deal, spent a month in jail and was fined I think $20K.</p>
<p>I believe the prosecution of the father was political, because people were understandably outraged by the shooting, (and yes, there is a strong anti-gun culture in Highland Park.) While it was obviously a mistake to sign the FOID application, the father argued persuasively (IMO) that he shouldn&#8217;t have been expected to predict what would happen two and a half years after he signed the paperwork.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/12/16/prosecutors-file-reckless-conduct-charges-against-father-of-highland-park-parade-shooting-suspect/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/12/16/prosecutors-file-reckless-conduct-charges-against-father-of-highland-park-parade-shooting-suspect/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: YoungHegelian		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2024/02/07/a-few-more-things-about-the-crumbley-case/#comment-2722232</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[YoungHegelian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2024 04:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=132240#comment-2722232</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As you point out, Neo, that this was gun violence at a school played heavily in this judgement.  I also think that the fact that the parents can be seen as unsympathetic &quot;white trash&quot; rather than a minority group plays here too. 

Just wait and see if the same parties who cheer this verdict cheer when the precedent is applied to underage minority murderers and their often struggling parents or, more likely, single parent (mother).  If you think the Crumbleys were shitty parents, just wait until you get the case-by-case on parenting styles of the inner city!

Bad, bad precedent.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you point out, Neo, that this was gun violence at a school played heavily in this judgement.  I also think that the fact that the parents can be seen as unsympathetic &#8220;white trash&#8221; rather than a minority group plays here too. </p>
<p>Just wait and see if the same parties who cheer this verdict cheer when the precedent is applied to underage minority murderers and their often struggling parents or, more likely, single parent (mother).  If you think the Crumbleys were shitty parents, just wait until you get the case-by-case on parenting styles of the inner city!</p>
<p>Bad, bad precedent.</p>
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