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	Comments on: And then there&#8217;s Bukele of El Salvador	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 20:06:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706772</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 20:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706772</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Strange that a fairly serious news junkie like me never heard of Bukele before I read the PJ Media article.&quot;---

Most likely because &quot;Biden&quot; doesn&#039;t want you to hear about him all that much...
...unless and until they can control the narrative and classify him as Racist Dictator.

Would seem that they haven&#039;t yet figured how to do that, though.
Probably just a matter of time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Strange that a fairly serious news junkie like me never heard of Bukele before I read the PJ Media article.&#8221;&#8212;</p>
<p>Most likely because &#8220;Biden&#8221; doesn&#8217;t want you to hear about him all that much&#8230;<br />
&#8230;unless and until they can control the narrative and classify him as Racist Dictator.</p>
<p>Would seem that they haven&#8217;t yet figured how to do that, though.<br />
Probably just a matter of time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 16:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[they had a hard core former guerilla ceran as the president, not that many years ago, he and his fmln peeps, brokered deals with MS-13]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they had a hard core former guerilla ceran as the president, not that many years ago, he and his fmln peeps, brokered deals with MS-13</p>
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		<title>
		By: JohnTyler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706727</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnTyler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 16:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706727</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yep, Bukele seems to be doing good for the citizens of El Salvador. 
As to be expected, the usual crowd in the &quot;world community&quot; is bitching about the many thousands of gang members that have been jailed. 
Those that haven&#039;t been jailed are probably here in the USA thanks to Mayorkas&#039; open border policy. 
True, Mayorkas is just following the orders (wasn&#039;t this the defense of the top Nazis at Nuremberg ?) of Joke Bidet&#039;s puppet masters. 

Of course, if Bukele was a hard core leftist, and had all of these gang members arrested and then immediately shot (or more likely, skip the arrest and just have them shot on sight) , the world community would remain silent and members of the Congressional Black Caucus (and probably &quot;The Squad&quot;) , Hollywood elites , etc. , would traipse on over to El Salvador and have selfies taken with their new best pal.

A lefty Bukele would be even a bigger hit with the world&#039;s lefties if he sang the praises of Hamas. In this event, ALL the demonkrats in the US Congress would make that trek to El Salvador and Bukele would be invited to address the UN .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, Bukele seems to be doing good for the citizens of El Salvador.<br />
As to be expected, the usual crowd in the &#8220;world community&#8221; is bitching about the many thousands of gang members that have been jailed.<br />
Those that haven&#8217;t been jailed are probably here in the USA thanks to Mayorkas&#8217; open border policy.<br />
True, Mayorkas is just following the orders (wasn&#8217;t this the defense of the top Nazis at Nuremberg ?) of Joke Bidet&#8217;s puppet masters. </p>
<p>Of course, if Bukele was a hard core leftist, and had all of these gang members arrested and then immediately shot (or more likely, skip the arrest and just have them shot on sight) , the world community would remain silent and members of the Congressional Black Caucus (and probably &#8220;The Squad&#8221;) , Hollywood elites , etc. , would traipse on over to El Salvador and have selfies taken with their new best pal.</p>
<p>A lefty Bukele would be even a bigger hit with the world&#8217;s lefties if he sang the praises of Hamas. In this event, ALL the demonkrats in the US Congress would make that trek to El Salvador and Bukele would be invited to address the UN .</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706716</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 14:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706716</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[carter lead latin american official, robert pastor, read horowitz&#039;s tract he wrote when he was with sds, and derived policy implication, at the time  they concluded&#039;we were suffering from an inordinate fear of communism&#039; much like &#039;islamophobia&#039; today,

much the same way the vaccuum left with the fall of mubarak and Kadaffi empowered islamists, because the small liberal intelligentsia is outnumbered,]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>carter lead latin american official, robert pastor, read horowitz&#8217;s tract he wrote when he was with sds, and derived policy implication, at the time  they concluded&#8217;we were suffering from an inordinate fear of communism&#8217; much like &#8216;islamophobia&#8217; today,</p>
<p>much the same way the vaccuum left with the fall of mubarak and Kadaffi empowered islamists, because the small liberal intelligentsia is outnumbered,</p>
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		<title>
		By: Philip Sells		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Sells]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 14:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am a bit surprised that Mr. Bukele has popped up on Neo&#039;s radar this relatively late, but then she&#039;s been very busy. Haven&#039;t been following his career all that closely myself, but he&#039;s had my moderate admiration for some time. Anyone who can score some wins against MS-13 must have something going for him. I had no idea of his Orthodox Christian family background until the above, though - very intriguing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a bit surprised that Mr. Bukele has popped up on Neo&#8217;s radar this relatively late, but then she&#8217;s been very busy. Haven&#8217;t been following his career all that closely myself, but he&#8217;s had my moderate admiration for some time. Anyone who can score some wins against MS-13 must have something going for him. I had no idea of his Orthodox Christian family background until the above, though &#8211; very intriguing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706687</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706687</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[From the Fox News link - no surprise that the MSM et al have not run any stories that might reach news junkies on the right - they might give us Bad Ideas.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
After years of El Salvador leading the world in homicides, Bukele is recognized for having reduced crime there to its lowest rate in more than 20 years. The 41-year-old leader,&lt;b&gt; who credits his increase of police and military presence and his crackdown on gangs for the country&#039;s turnaround, questioned the United States&#039; defund the police movement and other initiatives of the left, telling Carlson they &quot;make no sense.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

&quot;When you look how the cities are eroding so fast, this has to be by design. I mean who would make so many stupid decisions?&quot; Bukele asked. &quot;They&#039;re literally giving some people drugs in some us cities, or they say we&#039;re going to give you money if you don&#039;t work. They make all these laws that make no sense. If they have high crime, they say okay I have a solution, let&#039;s defund the police.&quot;

&quot;They make these decisions openly,&quot; he continued. &quot;It&#039;s not even [a] secret and we all know what will be the consequences of it. The defunding of the police, allowing shoplifting, giving drugs to drug addicts, giving money to people to stop work[ing], what will be the consequences? You&#039;ll destroy society, you&#039;ll destroy the city, you&#039;ll destroy the economy…and it&#039;s already happening.&quot;

&quot;You would think how could they be so dumb. Of course, they&#039;re not,&quot; he added. &lt;b&gt;&quot;They&#039;re very smart. It&#039;s by design. There&#039;s no other logical explanation.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Fox News link &#8211; no surprise that the MSM et al have not run any stories that might reach news junkies on the right &#8211; they might give us Bad Ideas.</p>
<blockquote><p>
After years of El Salvador leading the world in homicides, Bukele is recognized for having reduced crime there to its lowest rate in more than 20 years. The 41-year-old leader,<b> who credits his increase of police and military presence and his crackdown on gangs for the country&#8217;s turnaround, questioned the United States&#8217; defund the police movement and other initiatives of the left, telling Carlson they &#8220;make no sense.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>&#8220;When you look how the cities are eroding so fast, this has to be by design. I mean who would make so many stupid decisions?&#8221; Bukele asked. &#8220;They&#8217;re literally giving some people drugs in some us cities, or they say we&#8217;re going to give you money if you don&#8217;t work. They make all these laws that make no sense. If they have high crime, they say okay I have a solution, let&#8217;s defund the police.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;They make these decisions openly,&#8221; he continued. &#8220;It&#8217;s not even [a] secret and we all know what will be the consequences of it. The defunding of the police, allowing shoplifting, giving drugs to drug addicts, giving money to people to stop work[ing], what will be the consequences? You&#8217;ll destroy society, you&#8217;ll destroy the city, you&#8217;ll destroy the economy…and it&#8217;s already happening.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;You would think how could they be so dumb. Of course, they&#8217;re not,&#8221; he added. <b>&#8220;They&#8217;re very smart. It&#8217;s by design. There&#8217;s no other logical explanation.&#8221;</b>
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Jordan Rivers		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706665</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jordan Rivers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 03:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706665</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The story Telemachus linked to above is amazing (https://www.foxnews.com/media/el-salvador-president-us-feels-less-safe-third-world-country-unthinkable), like a breath of fresh air! 

Strange that a fairly serious news junkie like me never heard of Bukele before I read the PJ Media article.

I&#039;m guessing that El Salvador doesn&#039;t have an Open Borders policy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story Telemachus linked to above is amazing (<a href="https://www.foxnews.com/media/el-salvador-president-us-feels-less-safe-third-world-country-unthinkable" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.foxnews.com/media/el-salvador-president-us-feels-less-safe-third-world-country-unthinkable</a>), like a breath of fresh air! </p>
<p>Strange that a fairly serious news junkie like me never heard of Bukele before I read the PJ Media article.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that El Salvador doesn&#8217;t have an Open Borders policy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Turtler		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turtler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 01:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I admit I am divided on Bukele and especially his posturing as a self-claimed Dictator, but I have to admit he is PROBABLY not going to be worse than what was before. We Americans and those on the right are well equipped to understand the horrors of state control and abuse of its monopoly on violence, but we&#039;re not so prepared when we deal with the opposite evil: the collapse of that monopoly on organized violence and the rise of petty tyrannies like we see in Lebanon, Somalia, and this. When you&#039;re already living under a ruthless totalitarian dictatorship that you have to pay tribute to and will likely murder you and your family in horrible fashion, but also have to deal with it fighting with other pretty totalitarian dictatorships in miniature without the capacity to actually provide anything of value (say what you will about the Soviet Union under Stalin, but it didn&#039;t lack the ability to build things. Ditto Hitler and the Italian Moose. They often didn&#039;t build things WELL but they could do so and pay out entitlements to the average worker), suddenly having a single strongman who will claim to provide law and order and a degree of ethical guidance is the lesser evil.

Bukele has pleasantly surprised me in many ways, especially his lack of Jew hatred, but I am still leery about him.

@huxley

&lt;blockquote&gt; Has the Liberation Theology cohort taken over the shop? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Pretty much, yes. 

@Sgt. Joe Friday

&lt;blockquote&gt;The left didn’t like Pinochet either. Chileans I know thought he saved their country though. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m more jaundiced. I think Pinochet tends to get a much better rep than he deserves in large part because we tend to know that Allende was a bad bastard but underestimate not just how his regime was crumbling under Congressional scrutiny and the economic problems, but also how close he was to Pinochet. People forget that Allende appointed Pinochet to be his trusted hatchet man while consolidating the regime, only to underestimate how different his old friend&#039;s politics were and how loyal he was.

I also think his brutality (while admittedly tame - if still horrifying - by the standard of his era and region; compare to Videla and Stroessner) was largely counter-productive and helped make martyrs of lots of bad people while discrediting himself. Couple that with economic underwhelming performance (he was not nearly as close to the Chicago Boys as either Right or Left in the US like claiming) and his desperate last attempt to cling to power only to be overruled by his own subordinates, and I find him lukewarm.

But he was certainly no noble Cinncinnatus like figure as many of the original supporters hoped.

&lt;blockquote&gt; And let’s not forget that it was that dumbass Jimmy Carter that made such a mess of things in Central America. He pulled the rug out from under Somoza in Nicaragua, all because he thought Somoza was “immoral.” Well, when you’re fighting a communist insurgency bankrolled by the USSR, morality is something of a secondary priority. The Sandinistas began to export their insurgency to El Salvador and Guatemala, which caused TPTB in the USA to tolerate a certain amount of illegal immigration as a “safety valve” to prevent communism from sweeping that part of the world and possibly creating a Soviet client state on our southern border.

FDR supposedly once said about the elder Somoza “he may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.” Every administration prior to Carter stuck with the Somoza dictatorship because they understood the alternative to be worse. Soft men bring hard times indeed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Absolutely true, though with a caveat. The Somozoas were not just anti-communist but also old school oligarchs who didn&#039;t just fight the Communists and Sandinistaists in both old fashion (kind of an odd racialist socialism) and new but also our ally Pepe Figueres, who took power in probably the most beneficial coup and civil war Central America ever faced and quickly turned Costa Rica into a relatively model democratic free market country at peace.

So Carter etc. al. probably had some reason to believe that there was a better alternative to the Somozoas (and the Somozoas had reason to think so too, hence their attempts to overthrow him).

But I do find it telling how much Sandinista apologism -which used to be absolutely Dominant - has died down since Ortega retook power and was revealed to be the monster he was, including violations of his daughter. Score one for the old Cold Warriors who were pooh poohed for saying he had turned Nicaragua into a dystopian nightmare state and would do so again.

I usually see people argue the old &quot;But it was US isolation of him that made him like that!&quot;

Uhuh, sure. Riiiight.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit I am divided on Bukele and especially his posturing as a self-claimed Dictator, but I have to admit he is PROBABLY not going to be worse than what was before. We Americans and those on the right are well equipped to understand the horrors of state control and abuse of its monopoly on violence, but we&#8217;re not so prepared when we deal with the opposite evil: the collapse of that monopoly on organized violence and the rise of petty tyrannies like we see in Lebanon, Somalia, and this. When you&#8217;re already living under a ruthless totalitarian dictatorship that you have to pay tribute to and will likely murder you and your family in horrible fashion, but also have to deal with it fighting with other pretty totalitarian dictatorships in miniature without the capacity to actually provide anything of value (say what you will about the Soviet Union under Stalin, but it didn&#8217;t lack the ability to build things. Ditto Hitler and the Italian Moose. They often didn&#8217;t build things WELL but they could do so and pay out entitlements to the average worker), suddenly having a single strongman who will claim to provide law and order and a degree of ethical guidance is the lesser evil.</p>
<p>Bukele has pleasantly surprised me in many ways, especially his lack of Jew hatred, but I am still leery about him.</p>
<p>@huxley</p>
<blockquote><p> Has the Liberation Theology cohort taken over the shop? </p></blockquote>
<p>Pretty much, yes. </p>
<p>@Sgt. Joe Friday</p>
<blockquote><p>The left didn’t like Pinochet either. Chileans I know thought he saved their country though. </p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m more jaundiced. I think Pinochet tends to get a much better rep than he deserves in large part because we tend to know that Allende was a bad bastard but underestimate not just how his regime was crumbling under Congressional scrutiny and the economic problems, but also how close he was to Pinochet. People forget that Allende appointed Pinochet to be his trusted hatchet man while consolidating the regime, only to underestimate how different his old friend&#8217;s politics were and how loyal he was.</p>
<p>I also think his brutality (while admittedly tame &#8211; if still horrifying &#8211; by the standard of his era and region; compare to Videla and Stroessner) was largely counter-productive and helped make martyrs of lots of bad people while discrediting himself. Couple that with economic underwhelming performance (he was not nearly as close to the Chicago Boys as either Right or Left in the US like claiming) and his desperate last attempt to cling to power only to be overruled by his own subordinates, and I find him lukewarm.</p>
<p>But he was certainly no noble Cinncinnatus like figure as many of the original supporters hoped.</p>
<blockquote><p> And let’s not forget that it was that dumbass Jimmy Carter that made such a mess of things in Central America. He pulled the rug out from under Somoza in Nicaragua, all because he thought Somoza was “immoral.” Well, when you’re fighting a communist insurgency bankrolled by the USSR, morality is something of a secondary priority. The Sandinistas began to export their insurgency to El Salvador and Guatemala, which caused TPTB in the USA to tolerate a certain amount of illegal immigration as a “safety valve” to prevent communism from sweeping that part of the world and possibly creating a Soviet client state on our southern border.</p>
<p>FDR supposedly once said about the elder Somoza “he may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.” Every administration prior to Carter stuck with the Somoza dictatorship because they understood the alternative to be worse. Soft men bring hard times indeed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely true, though with a caveat. The Somozoas were not just anti-communist but also old school oligarchs who didn&#8217;t just fight the Communists and Sandinistaists in both old fashion (kind of an odd racialist socialism) and new but also our ally Pepe Figueres, who took power in probably the most beneficial coup and civil war Central America ever faced and quickly turned Costa Rica into a relatively model democratic free market country at peace.</p>
<p>So Carter etc. al. probably had some reason to believe that there was a better alternative to the Somozoas (and the Somozoas had reason to think so too, hence their attempts to overthrow him).</p>
<p>But I do find it telling how much Sandinista apologism -which used to be absolutely Dominant &#8211; has died down since Ortega retook power and was revealed to be the monster he was, including violations of his daughter. Score one for the old Cold Warriors who were pooh poohed for saying he had turned Nicaragua into a dystopian nightmare state and would do so again.</p>
<p>I usually see people argue the old &#8220;But it was US isolation of him that made him like that!&#8221;</p>
<p>Uhuh, sure. Riiiight.</p>
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		<title>
		By: huxley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706644</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[huxley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 00:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706644</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The current Pope makes that “rhetorical” question, “Is the Pope Catholic?” mean something else entirely these days.

--Someone Else&lt;/i&gt;

I figured after John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI the Catholic Church wasn&#039;t likely to make a big swing to the left.

It seems I was mistaken. 

I don&#039;t know Vatican politics. &quot;A riddle wrapped in an enigma inside a truck stop sushi roll.&quot; (I just  made that up.)

Has the Liberation Theology cohort taken over the shop?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The current Pope makes that “rhetorical” question, “Is the Pope Catholic?” mean something else entirely these days.</p>
<p>&#8211;Someone Else</i></p>
<p>I figured after John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI the Catholic Church wasn&#8217;t likely to make a big swing to the left.</p>
<p>It seems I was mistaken. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know Vatican politics. &#8220;A riddle wrapped in an enigma inside a truck stop sushi roll.&#8221; (I just  made that up.)</p>
<p>Has the Liberation Theology cohort taken over the shop?</p>
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		By: Someone Else		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/11/03/and-then-theres-bukele-of-el-salvador/#comment-2706638</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Someone Else]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2023 00:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=130116#comment-2706638</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The current Pope makes that &quot;rhetorical&quot; question, &quot;Is the Pope Catholic?&quot; mean something else entirely these days. &#039;Cause he sure doesn&#039;t seem to be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current Pope makes that &#8220;rhetorical&#8221; question, &#8220;Is the Pope Catholic?&#8221; mean something else entirely these days. &#8216;Cause he sure doesn&#8217;t seem to be.</p>
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