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	Comments on: What&#8217;s going on with the  Israeli anti-Hamas offensive?	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2705001</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 19:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2705001</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aesop
Theoretically ,you &quot;soften&quot; the route you want and a couple of blocks on either side.  With drones for surveillance--not available earlier--ambushes and assemblies of troops can be spotted in time to respond.
Then you have an area cut off for the more thorough treatment, not requiring speed and thus casualties.
That being said, which ever side&#039;s munition is in the dead civilian, the fault is with the side choosing to fight from amongst civilians.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aesop<br />
Theoretically ,you &#8220;soften&#8221; the route you want and a couple of blocks on either side.  With drones for surveillance&#8211;not available earlier&#8211;ambushes and assemblies of troops can be spotted in time to respond.<br />
Then you have an area cut off for the more thorough treatment, not requiring speed and thus casualties.<br />
That being said, which ever side&#8217;s munition is in the dead civilian, the fault is with the side choosing to fight from amongst civilians.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704990</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 18:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704990</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Yancey - indeed, but that is implementation, and your prior comment was about planning.
Operationally, how long would it really take to complete a &quot;softening&quot; in an area as small as Gaza, since Israel is already bombing Hamas targets?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Yancey &#8211; indeed, but that is implementation, and your prior comment was about planning.<br />
Operationally, how long would it really take to complete a &#8220;softening&#8221; in an area as small as Gaza, since Israel is already bombing Hamas targets?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Yancey Ward		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yancey Ward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 15:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AesopFan,

Phase one is aerial/artillery assault and softening of targets.  This usually takes weeks of work just to get through.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AesopFan,</p>
<p>Phase one is aerial/artillery assault and softening of targets.  This usually takes weeks of work just to get through.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704909</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 12:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704909</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[For those fascinated by irony, paradox, redemption, loyalty and...heroism...

&quot;Poland&#039;s Pious Forgers&quot;---
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/10/polands-pious-forgers]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those fascinated by irony, paradox, redemption, loyalty and&#8230;heroism&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Poland&#8217;s Pious Forgers&#8221;&#8212;<br />
<a href="https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/10/polands-pious-forgers" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2023/10/polands-pious-forgers</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill K		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 10:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Neo for the ref on Secularism in Israel.

And did you notice this?:
&quot;When a state becomes part of the United Nations, the state adopts the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In the Declaration, there are many instances that reflect a country&#039;s need for religious freedom. The Preamble of the Declaration states that it is &quot;a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations&quot;. In the Declaration, both articles 2 and 18 reference freedom of religion. In article 2, it states that everyone is entitled to all the rights, without any distinction such as religion. Article 18 states that &lt;b&gt;everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion, and has the right to show their religion in teaching, practice, worship, and observance&lt;/b&gt;.&quot;

3 rhetorical questions:
1. Do Muslim states follow Article 18? :(
2. By this standard, should they be members of the UN? :(
3. Will anybody do anything about it? :(]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Neo for the ref on Secularism in Israel.</p>
<p>And did you notice this?:<br />
&#8220;When a state becomes part of the United Nations, the state adopts the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In the Declaration, there are many instances that reflect a country&#8217;s need for religious freedom. The Preamble of the Declaration states that it is &#8220;a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations&#8221;. In the Declaration, both articles 2 and 18 reference freedom of religion. In article 2, it states that everyone is entitled to all the rights, without any distinction such as religion. Article 18 states that <b>everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion, and has the right to show their religion in teaching, practice, worship, and observance</b>.&#8221;</p>
<p>3 rhetorical questions:<br />
1. Do Muslim states follow Article 18? 🙁<br />
2. By this standard, should they be members of the UN? 🙁<br />
3. Will anybody do anything about it? 🙁</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some actual genuine news from CNN (via Not the Bee), that will probably figure in to Israel&#039;s plans:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/politics/intelligence-hamas-israel-attack-tunnels-phone-lines/index.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;The intelligence shared with US officials by Israel reveals how Hamas hid the planning of the operation through old-fashioned counterintelligence measures such as conducting planning meetings in person and staying off digital communications whose signals the Israelis can track in favor of the hardwired phones in the tunnels. It offers new insight into why Israel and the US were caught so flat-footed by the Hamas attack, which saw at least 1,500 fighters pouring across the border into Israel in an operation that killed at least 1,400 Israelis.

CNN has not seen the specific intelligence but spoke to sources familiar with it. The US Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment and the Israeli embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.

CNN previously reported that a series of strategic warnings from US and Israeli intelligence agencies did not lead officials from either country to anticipate the events of October 7.

The Israel Defense Forces colloquially refers to the tunnels built by Hamas over the last fifteen years or so as the “Gaza metro.” The tunnels make up a vast labyrinth that is used to store rockets and ammunition caches, as well as provide a way for militants to move about unnoticed. The IDF also says it contains vital Hamas command and control centers.
...
Israel was aware that Palestinian militants had been using hardwired communication systems prior to the October attack.

It encountered what appeared to be a similar kind of communication system when the Israeli military raided the city of Jenin in the northern West Bank this summer, according to an Israeli official. When Israeli troops moved in as part of what was dubbed “Operation Home and Garden,” the Israel Defense Forces discovered secure, hardwired communication lines and closed-circuit surveillance cameras to give advance warning of Israeli troop movements.

At the time, the IDF said it had struck a joint operational command center used by militant cells in Jenin, noting that it was used for “advanced observation and reconnaissance.” It was, the IDF said, a “hub for coordination and communication among the terrorists.”
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some actual genuine news from CNN (via Not the Bee), that will probably figure in to Israel&#8217;s plans:<br />
<a href="https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/politics/intelligence-hamas-israel-attack-tunnels-phone-lines/index.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/politics/intelligence-hamas-israel-attack-tunnels-phone-lines/index.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>The intelligence shared with US officials by Israel reveals how Hamas hid the planning of the operation through old-fashioned counterintelligence measures such as conducting planning meetings in person and staying off digital communications whose signals the Israelis can track in favor of the hardwired phones in the tunnels. It offers new insight into why Israel and the US were caught so flat-footed by the Hamas attack, which saw at least 1,500 fighters pouring across the border into Israel in an operation that killed at least 1,400 Israelis.</p>
<p>CNN has not seen the specific intelligence but spoke to sources familiar with it. The US Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment and the Israeli embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.</p>
<p>CNN previously reported that a series of strategic warnings from US and Israeli intelligence agencies did not lead officials from either country to anticipate the events of October 7.</p>
<p>The Israel Defense Forces colloquially refers to the tunnels built by Hamas over the last fifteen years or so as the “Gaza metro.” The tunnels make up a vast labyrinth that is used to store rockets and ammunition caches, as well as provide a way for militants to move about unnoticed. The IDF also says it contains vital Hamas command and control centers.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Israel was aware that Palestinian militants had been using hardwired communication systems prior to the October attack.</p>
<p>It encountered what appeared to be a similar kind of communication system when the Israeli military raided the city of Jenin in the northern West Bank this summer, according to an Israeli official. When Israeli troops moved in as part of what was dubbed “Operation Home and Garden,” the Israel Defense Forces discovered secure, hardwired communication lines and closed-circuit surveillance cameras to give advance warning of Israeli troop movements.</p>
<p>At the time, the IDF said it had struck a joint operational command center used by militant cells in Jenin, noting that it was used for “advanced observation and reconnaissance.” It was, the IDF said, a “hub for coordination and communication among the terrorists.”
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In support of my comment to Yancey, I was likely remembering having read this.
https://cdrsalamander.substack.com/p/gaza-coa-decision-brief
&quot;I am quite sure the Israeli Defense Forces had appropriate draft Operational Plans (OPLANS) on the shelf with all sorts of Branch Plans and Sequels waiting to be updated and providing enough once dusted off to get things in to Phase I.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In support of my comment to Yancey, I was likely remembering having read this.<br />
<a href="https://cdrsalamander.substack.com/p/gaza-coa-decision-brief" rel="nofollow ugc">https://cdrsalamander.substack.com/p/gaza-coa-decision-brief</a><br />
&#8220;I am quite sure the Israeli Defense Forces had appropriate draft Operational Plans (OPLANS) on the shelf with all sorts of Branch Plans and Sequels waiting to be updated and providing enough once dusted off to get things in to Phase I.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 05:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And what sdferr said: &quot;Hamas runs a social security bureau, a retirement benefit system for its every operative, names, addresses, numbers, the whole falafel. Capture that data bank, Bob’s yer uncle.&quot;

I would suspect the Israelis have had access to that for a long time.
They aren&#039;t handicapped in rounding-up terrorists by lack of data, but by public pressure in and out of Israel.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what sdferr said: &#8220;Hamas runs a social security bureau, a retirement benefit system for its every operative, names, addresses, numbers, the whole falafel. Capture that data bank, Bob’s yer uncle.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would suspect the Israelis have had access to that for a long time.<br />
They aren&#8217;t handicapped in rounding-up terrorists by lack of data, but by public pressure in and out of Israel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704848</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 05:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704848</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Bill K &#062; &quot;So I hope Israel has a complete list with photo ID&quot;

I suspect the Israelis have a considerable data base, despite the fact that many minions of Hamas are not card-carrying members.
They can add suspects from all the new work permits&#039; information. (I would hope that at least some were just working, not willingly serving as informants and then marauders).

They certainly know who these genuine members are.
&quot;Every single one of that Hamas leadership has been released since then&quot;

See also om on October 25, 2023 at 9:22 pm in re DNA and biometrics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Bill K &gt; &#8220;So I hope Israel has a complete list with photo ID&#8221;</p>
<p>I suspect the Israelis have a considerable data base, despite the fact that many minions of Hamas are not card-carrying members.<br />
They can add suspects from all the new work permits&#8217; information. (I would hope that at least some were just working, not willingly serving as informants and then marauders).</p>
<p>They certainly know who these genuine members are.<br />
&#8220;Every single one of that Hamas leadership has been released since then&#8221;</p>
<p>See also om on October 25, 2023 at 9:22 pm in re DNA and biometrics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AesopFan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/10/25/whats-going-on-with-the-israeli-anti-hamas-offensive/#comment-2704847</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AesopFan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2023 04:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=129809#comment-2704847</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ yancey ward &#062; &quot;It would be extremely foolish to have launched a ground invasion of this size on only 2 1/2 weeks planning.&quot;

Indeed it would.
I suspect that Israel had a number of on-the-shelf plans ready to be tweaked for the current situation, despite their nearly unbelievable failure to predict and plan for something like the 10/7 invasion, and then dismiss the warning signs over two years.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ yancey ward &gt; &#8220;It would be extremely foolish to have launched a ground invasion of this size on only 2 1/2 weeks planning.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed it would.<br />
I suspect that Israel had a number of on-the-shelf plans ready to be tweaked for the current situation, despite their nearly unbelievable failure to predict and plan for something like the 10/7 invasion, and then dismiss the warning signs over two years.</p>
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