Comments on: New York City versus airbnb

By: Mark Alexis

Mark Alexis — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:24:10 +0000

Lee: Great comment. I’m very conflicted about it too. I don’t mind staying in AirBnBs personally. Regardless, dismissing the problem altogether and pretending the pushback is coming solely from hospitality lobby groups is clearly an insufficient response.

By: Lee Also

Lee Also — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:15:58 +0000

My random thoughts on AirBnB and VRBO and the like:

I despise AirBnB but I also think New York passes a lot of stupid laws. This one has me wondering. AirBnB has been a considerable factor in driving up prices and driving out actual residents in many areas. Houses get purchased by speculators, and/or, owners of long-term rental properties refuse to renew leases so they can convert them to short-term rentals.

As I said, I despise AirBnB. I have been trying to move to a particular city but it is overrun with AirBnB.
1. Californians flee California, don’t want to pay capital gains tax on the money they get from selling their overpriced house in California, move to said destination, and buy three houses, renting out two on AirBnB.
2. Elderly relatives die, and rather than selling the house, the beneficiaries, rent them out on AirBnB.
3. But the residential areas near downtown is SUPER-SATURATED with AirBnBs and VRBOs.
4. Long-term house rentals have all but disappeared because the property owners have switched them over to short-term AirBnB-type properties.
5. Property values have become so highly inflated that outside the Californians, people no longer speculate on buying a house to rent out on AirBnB.

Even where I currently live, people have been buying MULTIPLE beach homes — to rent out on AirBnB. That helps drive up the costs to taxpayers when a hurricane wipes it out — property values go up, plus, all the whining about “lost income” from the properties. Back when, those houses belonged to a single family, and there was no “lost income.”

The cost of renting an AirBnB has gone up to the point where they are getting to be on par with hotels. (This is a good thing.)

Actual real hotels offer daily maid service, you don’t have to empty your own trash, frequently offer continental breakfasts. None of which you get with an AirBnB.

You want a kitchen? The “suites’ hotels have pretty nice kitchen setups. And you get daily maid service and you don’t have to empty your own trash! My husband and I stayed in one that slept up to five. Plus there was a connecting door, so two suites could be rented and sleep up to ten. It was a pretty nice setup! (It was downtown in a fairly large city, so really good space for the price.) And there was a bar, swimming pool, and gym downstairs. This one was also “pet-friendly” and had a dog-walking area with poop station.

My husband and I also stayed in a development that was almost all AirBnBs. It was weird. There were hardly any people there. We decided on the next trip, we would stay in a hotel. It was kind of creepy with no people around.

I suspect but haven’t looked into it deeply, that in a lot of jurisdictions, AirBnBs aren’t on the receiving end of the regulations that commercial hotels are, and/or to the extent that commercial hotels are.

I like the idea of limiting Airbnb-type listings of under thirty days to properties in which the owner is present, the number of guests is limited to two, and the guests have access to the whole property, but the libertarian in me doesn’t. I think there may be another way to do it.

By: Ray SoCa

Ray SoCa — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 03:02:23 +0000

Airbnb’s for higher occupancy when Covid shut down overseas travel.

Airbnb / short term rentals give 2x or more cash flow of a long term rental. This means the owner can afford to pay more, increasing prices.

In some markets, Phoenix, the Airbnb bubble is popping. To much supply, not enough demand.

By: Mark Alexis

Mark Alexis — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 21:40:54 +0000

Kshoosh: Completely agree, and I do the same with my family.

Art Deco: With all due respect, I think you’re severely underestimating the problem. But we can agree to disagree.

By: Art Deco

Art Deco — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 21:06:26 +0000

Art Deco: To be sure, zoning laws were also established to address other issues than just “externalities”, namely to maintain a certain ratio between residential and commercial use within a community (or within certain areas of a community).
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The externalities in question are noise, strangers, garish commercial signs, and, in some zones, unsightly acres of asphalt.
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But that’s a little different from an investor buying up a huge apartment block in a quiet residential city neighborhood and turning it into party city.
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The externalities in question are noise and strangers (especially their parked cars).
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But at the same time there are still good folks trying to live quietly without being overrun by tourists all the time, or looking for homes there which have now become unaffordable because a large chunk of the housing stock has been turned into de facto hotels.
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Last time I checked some data from the Department of Transportation, it appeared to me that about 2.5% of the population is engaged in out-of-town travel on any given day. I don’t think pressure from a fraction of this population is making housing ‘unaffordable’ except in the oddest sort of location. The counties around New York have about 18 million people living in them; it’s not a resort town on Lake Champlain.

By: Kshoosh

Kshoosh — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 18:45:17 +0000

I respect the concern about turning a tourism location into purely rental houses and driving out residents. I do think that should be avoided if possible.

But anecdotally, traveling with young kids is infinitely easier if we can rent a small house for a week, with a kitchen to warm up bottles, a dining room table for family dinners, etc. This is a demo that is underserved by the hotel industry, which won’t ever be able to replicate the ease of vacationing when you are able to rent not just a bedroom, but eating and living spaces also.

By: Cicero

Cicero — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 18:20:34 +0000

NYC is dying at Democratic hands. I will never return. “Migrants” are being housed in hotels at NYC city expense. Mayoe Adams fusses at TX bussing volunteers to NYC. But he says nothing against Biden and the non-Southern border letting the dreck in. Democrats! A NYC resident pays the highest tax rates total in the nation, and they will go up to “care for” the costs of care for the migrants. unless Biden sends Adams the billions he needs, in which case we will ALL be paying to house illegals in NYC hotels.

By: Mark Alexis

Mark Alexis — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:05:03 +0000

Art Deco: To be sure, zoning laws were also established to address other issues than just “externalities”, namely to maintain a certain ratio between residential and commercial use within a community (or within certain areas of a community). I built a huge expansion to my hotel a few years back and the neighbors were, understandably, not too thrilled about it. But they bought their house in a residential neighborhood which abuts a commercial district, so tough luck. But that’s a little different from an investor buying up a huge apartment block in a quiet residential city neighborhood and turning it into party city.

The Right is always quick to point to the fact that we should deregulate the rental market, build more housing, and make it more attractive for businesses including hotels to build and operate. Well, good luck with that in NYC. I agree with you that city is hardly the epitome of conservative rule, to put it mildly. But at the same time there are still good folks trying to live quietly without being overrun by tourists all the time, or looking for homes there which have now become unaffordable because a large chunk of the housing stock has been turned into de facto hotels. And regardless, some levels of (local!) regulation will always be necessary in order to house so many people and business on so little space. It’s a different story in North Dakota obviously.

By: Gringo

Gringo — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:00:21 +0000

I live in a condo complex where most of the units are rented out. Someone who purchased a unit last year made it an AirBNB rental. When the place was rented out, it became a nuisance for other residents, as the AirBNB rental people took up parking spaces that we residents ordinarily used. They could have parked in the far parking lot, which has a lot of empty spaces, but I doubt the unit owner ever presented that option to the AirBNB renters. They wouldn’t have liked the 200 yard walk to their unit.

Had the AirBNB rental continued, the HOA may have changed the parking rules from unassigned parking to assigning parking. Then homeowners could have rented out parking spaces to the AirBNB rental.

In any event, the city government decided that the AirBNB rental had violated some city regulations, and the unit turned into a regular long-term rental. There are AirBNB rentals throughout the city, so the issue wasn’t that AirBNB rental was prohibited outright, but that the owner of the AirBNB rental unit hadn’t followed protocol in setting up the AirBNB rental.

There have been incidents of some AirBNB rental units in the city being turned into loud party venues, which doesn’t go over well with neighbors.

By: Art Deco

Art Deco — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:47:34 +0000

I don’t know if this is part of the reasoning for NYC’s move, but I have seen problems with groups of “young people” renting an AirBnB for house parties, with said party drawing very large crowds and causing enough ruckus that multiple police officers are needed in response.
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a. Allow owners plenary discretion to whom they rent. No ‘open housing law’.
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b. consider some adjustments in tort law and insurance law so the bar and the insurance companies can put the screws to people who are not minding the store.
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c.Another solution might to be to have municipal ordinances which limit the number of people on an Air BnB premises and empower the police to shut down gatherings and arrest everyone they see.
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The regulatory function of municipal government shouldn’t be all that extensive but should cover (1) the use of common property, (2) land use, and (3) nuisance abatement.