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	<title>
	Comments on: Alan Dershowitz and Mark Judge on the DC Trump trial	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 21:16:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 21:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lee Also: &quot;But he [my husband] still believes there wasn’t enough fraud in the 2020 elections such that Trump could’ve won. &quot;

Does he understand that a shift of fewer than 40,000 votes in three states (AZ, GA, WI) would have thrown the election into the House where Trump probably would have won?  It did not require massive ballot harvesting or computer tampering, just a little old-fashioned finagling.  Comparable to the margins in TX and IL that brought the 1960 election into question.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee Also: &#8220;But he [my husband] still believes there wasn’t enough fraud in the 2020 elections such that Trump could’ve won. &#8221;</p>
<p>Does he understand that a shift of fewer than 40,000 votes in three states (AZ, GA, WI) would have thrown the election into the House where Trump probably would have won?  It did not require massive ballot harvesting or computer tampering, just a little old-fashioned finagling.  Comparable to the margins in TX and IL that brought the 1960 election into question.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tonawanda		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tonawanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 17:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Lee Also (8:42 AM):  I watched the entire three day symposium by Mike Lindell two years ago.  It did not produce what Mike promised, and generally was a disorganized mess.  

But there were several highly coherent and persuasive presentations based on statistics and mathematical analysis.  I am not talking about the bellwether county anomaly, which (as with several other similar anecdotal type oddities) is persuasive in itself.

The several entirely disparate statistical analyses (IMO) were irrefutable on their face.  They proved that fraudulent manipulation took place with results beyond the official winning numbers.  I cannot see how anything more would be required. 

It is my impression that other such mathematical proofs have been made elsewhere, some using sophisticated but entirely accepted forensic methods to prove fraudulent manipulation beyond the required number of deciding votes.

And yet the statistical or mathematical approach seems never to be discussed or raised in a broad public venue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lee Also (8:42 AM):  I watched the entire three day symposium by Mike Lindell two years ago.  It did not produce what Mike promised, and generally was a disorganized mess.  </p>
<p>But there were several highly coherent and persuasive presentations based on statistics and mathematical analysis.  I am not talking about the bellwether county anomaly, which (as with several other similar anecdotal type oddities) is persuasive in itself.</p>
<p>The several entirely disparate statistical analyses (IMO) were irrefutable on their face.  They proved that fraudulent manipulation took place with results beyond the official winning numbers.  I cannot see how anything more would be required. </p>
<p>It is my impression that other such mathematical proofs have been made elsewhere, some using sophisticated but entirely accepted forensic methods to prove fraudulent manipulation beyond the required number of deciding votes.</p>
<p>And yet the statistical or mathematical approach seems never to be discussed or raised in a broad public venue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 13:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1696846246411985058]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1696846246411985058" rel="nofollow ugc">https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1696846246411985058</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 13:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[so today&#039;s hrumpf in panem, is about proud boys leader, tarrio, who they couldn&#039;t attack because hes a black Hispanic, he never even made to the Capitol, they got him on some bogus charge, then they tagged the seditious conspiracy &#039;thought crime&#039;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so today&#8217;s hrumpf in panem, is about proud boys leader, tarrio, who they couldn&#8217;t attack because hes a black Hispanic, he never even made to the Capitol, they got him on some bogus charge, then they tagged the seditious conspiracy &#8216;thought crime&#8217;</p>
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		<title>
		By: miguel cervantes		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696388</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miguel cervantes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 13:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696388</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[mccarthy has been a fool since the plame game, which is when I started watching these lawfare games, because his peeps the sdny where involved, I&#039;m tired of pretending that things that aren&#039;t happening did, and the converse, didn&#039;t]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mccarthy has been a fool since the plame game, which is when I started watching these lawfare games, because his peeps the sdny where involved, I&#8217;m tired of pretending that things that aren&#8217;t happening did, and the converse, didn&#8217;t</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lee Also		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696386</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee Also]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 12:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696386</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Re: Judge

I recently had an argument with my husband about the 2020 elections. He is a conservative. He despises Brandon. But he still believes there wasn&#039;t enough fraud in the 2020 elections such that Trump could&#039;ve won. Why? Because he still reads &quot;mainstream media&quot; and assumes that because Trump&#039;s suits were dismissed, that there was no &quot;there, there.&quot; 

I have pointed out the statistical anomalies that make fraud probable. I can&#039;t find the exact numbers, however, as they are buried in days / week/s months of other stories on &quot;election fraud&quot; on the internet, such that an internet search is fruitless. I have also pointed out that massive fraud doesn&#039;t need some vast organized group of conspirators. It just needs a few dedicated people in the right places at the right time, and a confluence of things that make it easier: Massive mail-in ballots and the ability to ballot harvesting. 

I have pointed out that there were various reasons that the suits were dismissed, none of which had anything to do with actual fraud. 

My husband was on the fraud train shortly after it happened, but now, I think it is either just easier for him to believe there wasn&#039;t significant fraud, or it&#039;s been repeated so often, he just has come to believe it. 

I think it comes down to: If people keep telling you the sky is green often enough, at some point, you look up and say, &quot;Huh. I guess it really is green.&quot;

Maybe that is where Mike Judge is now. Maybe he is not a dedicated reader of Ace of Spades HQ, or the New Neo. Maybe he thinks National review is still &quot;conservative.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Judge</p>
<p>I recently had an argument with my husband about the 2020 elections. He is a conservative. He despises Brandon. But he still believes there wasn&#8217;t enough fraud in the 2020 elections such that Trump could&#8217;ve won. Why? Because he still reads &#8220;mainstream media&#8221; and assumes that because Trump&#8217;s suits were dismissed, that there was no &#8220;there, there.&#8221; </p>
<p>I have pointed out the statistical anomalies that make fraud probable. I can&#8217;t find the exact numbers, however, as they are buried in days / week/s months of other stories on &#8220;election fraud&#8221; on the internet, such that an internet search is fruitless. I have also pointed out that massive fraud doesn&#8217;t need some vast organized group of conspirators. It just needs a few dedicated people in the right places at the right time, and a confluence of things that make it easier: Massive mail-in ballots and the ability to ballot harvesting. </p>
<p>I have pointed out that there were various reasons that the suits were dismissed, none of which had anything to do with actual fraud. </p>
<p>My husband was on the fraud train shortly after it happened, but now, I think it is either just easier for him to believe there wasn&#8217;t significant fraud, or it&#8217;s been repeated so often, he just has come to believe it. </p>
<p>I think it comes down to: If people keep telling you the sky is green often enough, at some point, you look up and say, &#8220;Huh. I guess it really is green.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe that is where Mike Judge is now. Maybe he is not a dedicated reader of Ace of Spades HQ, or the New Neo. Maybe he thinks National review is still &#8220;conservative.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696385</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 12:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696385</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Except that...he&#039;s not saying these things because he&#039;s Right OR Left OR Green OR Blue Or Yellow. Or Mineral. Or Vegetable.
He&#039;s saying these things because he&#039;s a Constitutionalist who UNDERSTANDS how destructive the Democratic Party antics are for the rule of law and for the country.
Andrew McCarthy, for some reason, seems to have bought into the Democratic Party propaganda that Trump is a criminal.
That is, he&#039;s bought into a Compulsively Prevaricating, Criminal Entity&#039;s propaganda that Trump is a criminal.
(Of course, one MIGHT claim that even a Compulsively Prevaricating Criminal Entity is right some of the time...though in the case of the Democratic Party---and its pit-bull, scorched-earth policies of Personal, Social, Municipal, State and National Destruction, and CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, and weaponizing ALL the powers at its disposal to effect those policies---I would beg to differ.... 
OMMV, of course...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except that&#8230;he&#8217;s not saying these things because he&#8217;s Right OR Left OR Green OR Blue Or Yellow. Or Mineral. Or Vegetable.<br />
He&#8217;s saying these things because he&#8217;s a Constitutionalist who UNDERSTANDS how destructive the Democratic Party antics are for the rule of law and for the country.<br />
Andrew McCarthy, for some reason, seems to have bought into the Democratic Party propaganda that Trump is a criminal.<br />
That is, he&#8217;s bought into a Compulsively Prevaricating, Criminal Entity&#8217;s propaganda that Trump is a criminal.<br />
(Of course, one MIGHT claim that even a Compulsively Prevaricating Criminal Entity is right some of the time&#8230;though in the case of the Democratic Party&#8212;and its pit-bull, scorched-earth policies of Personal, Social, Municipal, State and National Destruction, and CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, and weaponizing ALL the powers at its disposal to effect those policies&#8212;I would beg to differ&#8230;.<br />
OMMV, of course&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bauxite		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696384</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bauxite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 11:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696384</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is worth remembering that criminal defense and prosecution are two distinct tribes of lawyers, who often have very different views on criminal matters and especially criminal procedure. 

Dershowitz is saying a lot of things right now that Trump supporters want to hear. He is also, however, a card-carryng member of the criminal defense tribe, and principled enough that he would be saying these things about any defendant. Traditionally, the criminal defense tribe was more the domain of the left and prosecution tribe more the domain of the right, which is why, I think, there are so many people in the right-of-center legal voices saying things that Trump supporters would prefer not to hear. (e.g., Chris Christie, Andy McCarthy, etc.)

There are elements of truth in the perspectives of both the criminal defense tribe and the prosecution tribe, but I don&#039;t think that either side has things completely right.

That&#039;s also why I think it is folly to try to attribute political motivations to Dershowitz. I strongly suspect that his affiliation with the criminal defense tribe is stronger than his political affiliation with the left - but that doesn&#039;t mean he belongs on the political right.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is worth remembering that criminal defense and prosecution are two distinct tribes of lawyers, who often have very different views on criminal matters and especially criminal procedure. </p>
<p>Dershowitz is saying a lot of things right now that Trump supporters want to hear. He is also, however, a card-carryng member of the criminal defense tribe, and principled enough that he would be saying these things about any defendant. Traditionally, the criminal defense tribe was more the domain of the left and prosecution tribe more the domain of the right, which is why, I think, there are so many people in the right-of-center legal voices saying things that Trump supporters would prefer not to hear. (e.g., Chris Christie, Andy McCarthy, etc.)</p>
<p>There are elements of truth in the perspectives of both the criminal defense tribe and the prosecution tribe, but I don&#8217;t think that either side has things completely right.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s also why I think it is folly to try to attribute political motivations to Dershowitz. I strongly suspect that his affiliation with the criminal defense tribe is stronger than his political affiliation with the left &#8211; but that doesn&#8217;t mean he belongs on the political right.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barry Meislin		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696381</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Meislin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696381</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As far as I&#039;m concerned, Judge has paid his dues and then some.
He was drawn and quartered during the Kavanaugh hearings---or rather the Kavanaugh Inquisition and Auto Da Fe---and for what? Because he was a friend of Kavanaugh&#039;s. Because he was available to be destroyed. Because he was useful to them. Because THEY COULD try to destroy him. (And did try...but he persevered.)
The Democrats and their paid shills and helots are no better than a Cat 5 hurricane: destructive and indiscriminate.
(Unlike the hurricane, though, they pretend they&#039;re beneficial. Helpful. Compassionate. Patriotic. Law-abiding. Indispensable.)
I think Judge is wrong about the 2020 elections. 
That&#039;s OK. People are allowed to be wrong. At least some people.
He&#039;s not lying about it, though. He&#039;s simply---from my POV---too willing to give the Democrats the benefit of the doubt (a benefit of the doubt they in no way deserve).
His problem, I guess.
All of our problems...
As I said, he&#039;s paid his dues.
And he&#039;s doing his best...
(Which is my &quot;go-to&quot; rationalization/cop-out...I guess, but there ya&#039; go...)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, Judge has paid his dues and then some.<br />
He was drawn and quartered during the Kavanaugh hearings&#8212;or rather the Kavanaugh Inquisition and Auto Da Fe&#8212;and for what? Because he was a friend of Kavanaugh&#8217;s. Because he was available to be destroyed. Because he was useful to them. Because THEY COULD try to destroy him. (And did try&#8230;but he persevered.)<br />
The Democrats and their paid shills and helots are no better than a Cat 5 hurricane: destructive and indiscriminate.<br />
(Unlike the hurricane, though, they pretend they&#8217;re beneficial. Helpful. Compassionate. Patriotic. Law-abiding. Indispensable.)<br />
I think Judge is wrong about the 2020 elections.<br />
That&#8217;s OK. People are allowed to be wrong. At least some people.<br />
He&#8217;s not lying about it, though. He&#8217;s simply&#8212;from my POV&#8212;too willing to give the Democrats the benefit of the doubt (a benefit of the doubt they in no way deserve).<br />
His problem, I guess.<br />
All of our problems&#8230;<br />
As I said, he&#8217;s paid his dues.<br />
And he&#8217;s doing his best&#8230;<br />
(Which is my &#8220;go-to&#8221; rationalization/cop-out&#8230;I guess, but there ya&#8217; go&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>
		By: FOAF		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/08/29/dershowitz-on-the-dc-trump-trial/#comment-2696379</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOAF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2023 09:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=128337#comment-2696379</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s assume at least for sake of argument that Dershowitz is sincere.  He&#039;s a lib Dem and votes that way but is troubled by the rule of law issues with lawfare and censorship.  That puts him in company more or less with Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and Bari Weiss.

That&#039;s nice that they speak out on this but are they really moving the needle?  I doubt it.  Do any Dem officeholders support that, or more importantly any significant number of our &quot;nice, reasonable&quot; lib friends?  Not that I can see.  For that matter how many *Republican* politicians are going to the mat on this?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s assume at least for sake of argument that Dershowitz is sincere.  He&#8217;s a lib Dem and votes that way but is troubled by the rule of law issues with lawfare and censorship.  That puts him in company more or less with Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and Bari Weiss.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s nice that they speak out on this but are they really moving the needle?  I doubt it.  Do any Dem officeholders support that, or more importantly any significant number of our &#8220;nice, reasonable&#8221; lib friends?  Not that I can see.  For that matter how many *Republican* politicians are going to the mat on this?</p>
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