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	Comments on: Trump versus everyone else	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: om		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691486</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[om]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2023 00:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691486</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[stan sees Gestapo.  Quite the perspective, but he knows &quot;all.&quot;  Is stan a Soverign Citizen?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stan sees Gestapo.  Quite the perspective, but he knows &#8220;all.&#8221;  Is stan a Soverign Citizen?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Abraxas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691446</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abraxas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 20:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691446</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes, polls have shown that Perot drew equally from both candidates, but 1) national polls don&#039;t reflect how the key swing states would have voted, and 2) the two-on-one of Clinton and Perot may have shaken a lot of voters who would have chosen Bush loose, and made them think Bush was worse than he was.  So yes, Clinton might have (or probably would have) won the election without Perot, but it&#039;s still something people will argue about.  Recent history, though, makes people think that Clinton, and Carter before him, weren&#039;t as popular in the South the first time they ran.  It&#039;s now hard to believe that Clinton could have won West Virginia and Kentucky, but times were different then.

Republicans moved further to the right in the 1990s.  I don&#039;t think that they&#039;ve moved right since 2016.  Republicans have been rethinking what &quot;conservatism&quot; really means.  Politicians and positions that looked like far-right bomb throwers and bomb throwing earlier now seem like part of the Uniparty. MAGA has addressed issues that weren&#039;t priorities for the DC GOP. The Democrats have moved so far to the left that Republicans look more combative if they just stick to their old positions.   Polarization is deeper now, and animosity is greater, but I doubt it&#039;s because Republicans have moved to the right.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, polls have shown that Perot drew equally from both candidates, but 1) national polls don&#8217;t reflect how the key swing states would have voted, and 2) the two-on-one of Clinton and Perot may have shaken a lot of voters who would have chosen Bush loose, and made them think Bush was worse than he was.  So yes, Clinton might have (or probably would have) won the election without Perot, but it&#8217;s still something people will argue about.  Recent history, though, makes people think that Clinton, and Carter before him, weren&#8217;t as popular in the South the first time they ran.  It&#8217;s now hard to believe that Clinton could have won West Virginia and Kentucky, but times were different then.</p>
<p>Republicans moved further to the right in the 1990s.  I don&#8217;t think that they&#8217;ve moved right since 2016.  Republicans have been rethinking what &#8220;conservatism&#8221; really means.  Politicians and positions that looked like far-right bomb throwers and bomb throwing earlier now seem like part of the Uniparty. MAGA has addressed issues that weren&#8217;t priorities for the DC GOP. The Democrats have moved so far to the left that Republicans look more combative if they just stick to their old positions.   Polarization is deeper now, and animosity is greater, but I doubt it&#8217;s because Republicans have moved to the right.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 19:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kris:

Bill Clinton won his elections.  &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;In 1992&lt;/a&gt;, Clinton got 43% to Bush&#039;s 37%, and Perot got 19%, but all analyses of the Perot vote that I&#039;ve ever read - and I&#039;ve read quite a few - say that Perot pulled votes evenly from Clinton and Bush.  In 1996, &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;Clinton got&lt;/a&gt; 49.2% to Dole&#039;s 40,7%, and Perot 8.4% - also drawing from both.  Being &quot;bailed out&quot; by &quot;dolorous Dole&quot; equals &lt;i&gt;losing an election&lt;/i&gt;.

Bill Clinton was popular at the time.  Hillary hasn&#039;t been popular.  They are a political team but very different in their skills and personalities.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kris:</p>
<p>Bill Clinton won his elections.  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election" rel="nofollow ugc">In 1992</a>, Clinton got 43% to Bush&#8217;s 37%, and Perot got 19%, but all analyses of the Perot vote that I&#8217;ve ever read &#8211; and I&#8217;ve read quite a few &#8211; say that Perot pulled votes evenly from Clinton and Bush.  In 1996, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election" rel="nofollow ugc">Clinton got</a> 49.2% to Dole&#8217;s 40,7%, and Perot 8.4% &#8211; also drawing from both.  Being &#8220;bailed out&#8221; by &#8220;dolorous Dole&#8221; equals <i>losing an election</i>.</p>
<p>Bill Clinton was popular at the time.  Hillary hasn&#8217;t been popular.  They are a political team but very different in their skills and personalities.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kris		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691428</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 19:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691428</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Stan The Clintons lost almost every national election. They were bailed out by Perot. Then Dolorous Dole, the forefather of Romney and McCain (failure theatre).  And, finally, and most disastrously, 2016. As good as his reputation for politics is, WJC barely squeaked by, time after time, and came up short in the 2 defining elections of at least 1 generation, perhaps 2 (2000, 2016).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stan The Clintons lost almost every national election. They were bailed out by Perot. Then Dolorous Dole, the forefather of Romney and McCain (failure theatre).  And, finally, and most disastrously, 2016. As good as his reputation for politics is, WJC barely squeaked by, time after time, and came up short in the 2 defining elections of at least 1 generation, perhaps 2 (2000, 2016).</p>
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		<title>
		By: stan		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;To those who say the country is lost unless, please refer to “The little boy who cried wolf”. I’ve been hearing that one since Clinton was running.&quot;

Clintons were corrupt and criminal. But they never weaponized the government like the Gestapo. The Clintons effort to steal the 2000 election came up just short.

The Gestapo units are real and the election steals far worse. Anyone who hasn&#039;t noticed the difference needs to get their meds changed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To those who say the country is lost unless, please refer to “The little boy who cried wolf”. I’ve been hearing that one since Clinton was running.&#8221;</p>
<p>Clintons were corrupt and criminal. But they never weaponized the government like the Gestapo. The Clintons effort to steal the 2000 election came up just short.</p>
<p>The Gestapo units are real and the election steals far worse. Anyone who hasn&#8217;t noticed the difference needs to get their meds changed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Abraxas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abraxas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 16:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Moderate Republicans (McCain, Romney) don&#039;t win.  Conservative Republicans (Ted Cruz, Duncan Hunter, Bob Dornan, Malcolm Forbes and a host of others) don&#039;t win and don&#039;t often get the nomination. To win a candidate needs something extra, a populist -- or at least popular -- appeal.  Reagan had it.  Trump had it.  Voters want somebody who they can believe isn&#039;t entirely in the pocket of big government and big business, somebody who speaks to their concerns and will do something about them (Reagan, to be sure, wasn&#039;t much of a populist when it came to big business, but that was another time).

The concern with DeSantis is first of all that he doesn&#039;t have that charisma and that appeal to ordinary voters.  There&#039;s also the worry that he&#039;s too much an establishment candidate.  Running to the right of Trump on social issues doesn&#039;t lesson the worry.  Other concerns are that as a &quot;policy wonk&quot; he&#039;ll get too caught up in the minutia of government, or that as an ideological culture warrior he&#039;ll ignore the bread and butter issues.  

The left side of the culture war is so insane that they ought to be defeated, but I don&#039;t think those cultural conflicts are the issues people vote on.  I&#039;m only going to vote for a candidate who&#039;s sane on those issues, but my priority would be somebody who will bring the country back economically (at a more fundamental level, not just high stock prices and big corporate profits).  If I vote in the primary, it may be for Ramaswami (Trump isn&#039;t going to change), but it helps to recognize that politics and government aren&#039;t kind to Boy Wonders and Wonder Boys.  They get eaten up.  DeSantis may be an example.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moderate Republicans (McCain, Romney) don&#8217;t win.  Conservative Republicans (Ted Cruz, Duncan Hunter, Bob Dornan, Malcolm Forbes and a host of others) don&#8217;t win and don&#8217;t often get the nomination. To win a candidate needs something extra, a populist &#8212; or at least popular &#8212; appeal.  Reagan had it.  Trump had it.  Voters want somebody who they can believe isn&#8217;t entirely in the pocket of big government and big business, somebody who speaks to their concerns and will do something about them (Reagan, to be sure, wasn&#8217;t much of a populist when it came to big business, but that was another time).</p>
<p>The concern with DeSantis is first of all that he doesn&#8217;t have that charisma and that appeal to ordinary voters.  There&#8217;s also the worry that he&#8217;s too much an establishment candidate.  Running to the right of Trump on social issues doesn&#8217;t lesson the worry.  Other concerns are that as a &#8220;policy wonk&#8221; he&#8217;ll get too caught up in the minutia of government, or that as an ideological culture warrior he&#8217;ll ignore the bread and butter issues.  </p>
<p>The left side of the culture war is so insane that they ought to be defeated, but I don&#8217;t think those cultural conflicts are the issues people vote on.  I&#8217;m only going to vote for a candidate who&#8217;s sane on those issues, but my priority would be somebody who will bring the country back economically (at a more fundamental level, not just high stock prices and big corporate profits).  If I vote in the primary, it may be for Ramaswami (Trump isn&#8217;t going to change), but it helps to recognize that politics and government aren&#8217;t kind to Boy Wonders and Wonder Boys.  They get eaten up.  DeSantis may be an example.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kris		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691402</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 15:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691402</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was listening to a Jordan Peterson podcast. He brought up that for social animals the alpha male is often not the strongest, but the best at managing relationships with reciprocity. We have had a huge lack of reciprocity since GHWB. The right keeps giving, but never getting. 

In nature, this lasts until a coalition of lower status members violently end the rule of the selfish alpha.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was listening to a Jordan Peterson podcast. He brought up that for social animals the alpha male is often not the strongest, but the best at managing relationships with reciprocity. We have had a huge lack of reciprocity since GHWB. The right keeps giving, but never getting. </p>
<p>In nature, this lasts until a coalition of lower status members violently end the rule of the selfish alpha.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Alexis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691399</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Alexis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 15:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691399</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frederick: Are you sure we&#039;re not talking about the same Man?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frederick: Are you sure we&#8217;re not talking about the same Man?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Frederick		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691392</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frederick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 14:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691392</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Mark Alexis:&lt;i&gt;The Donald explicitly stood up for “The Forgotten Man” in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. — the people whose jobs have been wiped out...&lt;/i&gt;

The REAL &quot;Forgotten Man&quot; is not that man. The REAL &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Graham_Sumner#%22The_Forgotten_Man%22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;&quot;Forgotten Man&quot;&lt;/a&gt; is the man who will be expropriated so that politicians can buy votes by &quot;helping&quot;.

&lt;i&gt;As soon as A observes something which seems to him wrong, from which X is suffering, A talks it over with B, and A and B then propose to get a law passed to remedy the evil and help X. Their law always proposes to determine what C shall do for X, or, in better case, what A, B, and C shall do for X... What I want to do is to look up C. I want to show you what manner of man he is. I call him the Forgotten Man. Perhaps the appellation is not strictly correct. He is the man who never is thought of. He is the victim of the reformer, social speculator and philanthropist, and I hope to show you before I get through that he deserves your notice both for his character and for the many burdens which are laid upon him. He works, he votes, generally he prays—but he always pays...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark Alexis:<i>The Donald explicitly stood up for “The Forgotten Man” in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. — the people whose jobs have been wiped out&#8230;</i></p>
<p>The REAL &#8220;Forgotten Man&#8221; is not that man. The REAL <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Graham_Sumner#%22The_Forgotten_Man%22" rel="nofollow ugc">&#8220;Forgotten Man&#8221;</a> is the man who will be expropriated so that politicians can buy votes by &#8220;helping&#8221;.</p>
<p><i>As soon as A observes something which seems to him wrong, from which X is suffering, A talks it over with B, and A and B then propose to get a law passed to remedy the evil and help X. Their law always proposes to determine what C shall do for X, or, in better case, what A, B, and C shall do for X&#8230; What I want to do is to look up C. I want to show you what manner of man he is. I call him the Forgotten Man. Perhaps the appellation is not strictly correct. He is the man who never is thought of. He is the victim of the reformer, social speculator and philanthropist, and I hope to show you before I get through that he deserves your notice both for his character and for the many burdens which are laid upon him. He works, he votes, generally he prays—but he always pays&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Alexis		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2023/07/31/trump-versus-everyone-else/#comment-2691387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Alexis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2023 13:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.thenewneo.com/?p=127564#comment-2691387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I completely agree, and I have by now moved on from Trump and will support DeSantis. However, one topic which propelled Trump to victory and which DeSantis has so far more or less neglected is that The Donald explicitly stood up for &quot;The Forgotten Man&quot; in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. -- the people whose jobs have been wiped out by China and automation, leaving only Fentanyl addiction, crappy service jobs and dysfunctional families in their wake. Trump appealed to these folks at a time when most of the country -- Republicans included -- pretended, at best, that this problem didn&#039;t exist. DeSantis had better heed this example if he wants to find support among the Trump base.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree, and I have by now moved on from Trump and will support DeSantis. However, one topic which propelled Trump to victory and which DeSantis has so far more or less neglected is that The Donald explicitly stood up for &#8220;The Forgotten Man&#8221; in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. &#8212; the people whose jobs have been wiped out by China and automation, leaving only Fentanyl addiction, crappy service jobs and dysfunctional families in their wake. Trump appealed to these folks at a time when most of the country &#8212; Republicans included &#8212; pretended, at best, that this problem didn&#8217;t exist. DeSantis had better heed this example if he wants to find support among the Trump base.</p>
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